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Saints vs Villa - Build Up


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Like we got destroyed on Saturday and lost four in a row. How would you know, as this team has never played and probably never will. I'd just like to see whether it would work.

 

Oh come on, Fonte isn't good enough with his feet to play as a CM and has never played there. To have say Lallana and Ramirez in the middle of midfield would get overrun, and playing 3 forwards up front. would give the opposition sooooooooo much space. Thats the kind of team you'd play on FM, not a realistic team thats going to grind out results.

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Oh come on, Fonte isn't good enough with his feet to play as a CM and has never played there. To have say Lallana and Ramirez in the middle of midfield would get overrun, and playing 3 forwards up front. would give the opposition sooooooooo much space. Thats the kind of team you'd play on FM, not a realistic team thats going to grind out results.

 

This. Plus this suggestion would never have been made after the Utd game. We had a bad result at the weekend but until then had showed lots of positive signs. Playing a host of players out of position after 4 games (three aginst top 4 teams) is a major knee jerk and clearly won't happen.

 

We need to sharpen up at the back, not a lot else is wrong - we are just up against far better players.

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This. Plus this suggestion would never have been made after the Utd game. We had a bad result at the weekend but until then had showed lots of positive signs. Playing a host of players out of position after 4 games (three aginst top 4 teams) is a major knee jerk and clearly won't happen.

 

We need to sharpen up at the back, not a lot else is wrong - we are just up against far better players.

 

We just need to play like we did against Utd, get Ramirez in and cut out the mistakes.

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Oh come on, Fonte isn't good enough with his feet to play as a CM and has never played there. To have say Lallana and Ramirez in the middle of midfield would get overrun, and playing 3 forwards up front. would give the opposition sooooooooo much space. Thats the kind of team you'd play on FM, not a realistic team thats

going to grind out results.

 

Only if they play like you think. Fonte isn't a CM he is a front sweeper, a proper defender who covers in front of the back four getting to the ball before the back four has to commit. The team doesn't play as three compartments it should be a formation of 10 defending and 6/7 attacking. Playing 3 centre backs and two full backs and playing on the break with pace is grinding out results. Not 5 lightweights losing the midfield as we are at the moment.

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Only if they play like you think. Fonte isn't a CM he is a front sweeper, a proper defender who covers in front of the back four getting to the ball before the back four has to commit. The team doesn't play as three compartments it should be a formation of 10 defending and 6/7 attacking. Playing 3 centre backs and two full backs and playing on the break with pace is grinding out results. Not 5 lightweights losing the midfield as we are at the moment.

 

Well against Man Utd's midfield of England players we dominated for the most part - bet you didn't slag them after that game?

 

Plus - kind of laughable saying it was lightweight and then suggesting Lallana and Ramirez as the central 2 ahead of Fonte.

 

Fonte or Schneiderlin as the holding midfielder? Not even worth debating. Although seeing as you are one of the guys who questions what MS adds to the team then Im not suprised I disagree with you on most football matters.

 

As tajjuk said above:

 

We just need to play like we did against Utd, get Ramirez in and cut out the mistakes.

 

Rather than playing Fonte in CM and messing around with bizarre selections and formations - there isnt a lot wrong apart from the basics of defending.

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This. Plus this suggestion would never have been made after the Utd game. We had a bad result at the weekend but until then had showed lots of positive signs. Playing a host of players out of position after 4 games (three aginst top 4 teams) is a major knee jerk and clearly won't happen.

 

We need to sharpen up at the back, not a lot else is wrong - we are just up against far better players.

 

It is strengthening the defence, giving more defence in the air and covering the full backs. Anybody would think the defence was ok, Fonte and Fox are the finished article they won't get any better. It isn't strong enough and the flaky goalkeeper makes it worse. The third centre back instead of the non defensive holding midfielder might help. The 433/451 with orthodox players isn't working. 40% possession isn't keeping the ball so trying something else isn't a problem. Hoddle played three at the back maybe we should look at that. What I've suggested is halfway there.

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It is strengthening the defence, giving more defence in the air and covering the full backs. Anybody would think the defence was ok, Fonte and Fox are the finished article they won't get any better. It isn't strong enough and the flaky goalkeeper makes it worse. The third centre back instead of the non defensive holding midfielder might help. The 433/451 with orthodox players isn't working. 40% possession isn't keeping the ball so trying something else isn't a problem. Hoddle played three at the back maybe we should look at that. What I've suggested is halfway there.

 

 

But largely you have decided this after one poor match, and two others against the top 4.

 

Would you have suggested this after the Man Utd game?

 

Would you not feel it better to see how we do in the next 3 or 4 games - ones we can realistically get points from?

 

Personally - I am not questioning Adkins a great deal - results will come. But if he started playing Fonte in midfield or moving to back 5 I would be worried - in the games we have played well our midfield fluidity has been very good.

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Well against Man Utd's midfield of England players we dominated for the most part - bet you didn't slag them after that game?

 

Plus - kind of laughable saying it was lightweight and then suggesting Lallana and Ramirez as the central 2 ahead of Fonte.

 

Fonte or Schneiderlin as the holding midfielder? Not even worth debating. Although seeing as you are one of the guys who questions what MS adds to the team then Im not suprised I disagree with you on most football matters.

 

As tajjuk said above:

 

We just need to play like we did against Utd, get Ramirez in and cut out the mistakes.

 

Rather than playing Fonte in CM and messing around with bizarre selections and formations - there isnt a lot wrong apart from the basics of defending.

 

Did you miss Scholes pulling us apart. We had no answer. We needed to man to man Scholes but gave him the freedom of SMS to pressurise us. As for MS, if he is so good how come nobody is trying to take him.

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Did you miss Scholes pulling us apart. We had no answer. We needed to man to man Scholes but gave him the freedom of SMS to pressurise us. As for MS, if he is so good how come nobody is trying to take him.

 

On Scholes - fair point we could have man marked him - but doesnt mean our setup for the other 70mins wasn't good. He has done that to far better teams than us and thats a learning curve. The fact they had to do that shows that we played well and were on top. its those small differences in class like Scholes has that we need to get used to - not rip out what our strengths of the game were.

 

Re MS comment....we can agree to diasgree. I don't know what bids we have had for players so will bow to your superior ITK situation.

Edited by Saint Charlie
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As for MS, if he is so good how come nobody is trying to take him.

 

How do you know they haven't?

 

He is a very good holding midfielder, Fonte would be lost if he were to be shoehorned into such a role and probably wouldn't even have the stamina for it. Schneiderlin has covered more ground than any other Premier League player this season. Fonte also lacks Schneiderlin's first touch, passing ability, vision etc etc which are needed to play in that role. Watch back some games with Schneiderlin as the holding midfielder and you see he wins the ball alot in the tackle and interceptions.

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3 at the back means that you miss a player in midfield, If we're willing to play 2 in CM, then we'd play 442, not add another CB. Also it leaves huge gaps behind the 'wing backs' and the CB's get in each others way.

 

Or 532, becomes 352, becomes 325, becomes 316 becomes 10 behind the ball. 442 isn't allowed.

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Did you miss Scholes pulling us apart. We had no answer. We needed to man to man Scholes but gave him the freedom of SMS to pressurise us. As for MS, if he is so good how come nobody is trying to take him.

 

Aston Villa don't have Paul Scholes, they also aren't Man Utd, the same 70 minutes of pressing, passing, pressure, passing and incisiveness we showed against Man Utd against teams like Villa will leave them dead and buried.

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How do you know they haven't?

 

He is a very good holding midfielder, Fonte would be lost if he were to be shoehorned into such a role and probably wouldn't even have the stamina for it. Schneiderlin has covered more ground than any other Premier League player this season. Fonte also lacks Schneiderlin's first touch, passing ability, vision etc etc which are needed to play in that role. Watch back some games with Schneiderlin as the holding midfielder and you see he wins the ball alot in the tackle and interceptions.

 

He won't because he has already made his mind up on Morgan. Doesn't see that when he plays well the whole team does.

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On Scholes - fair point we could have man marked him - but doesnt mean our setup for the other 70mins wasn't good. He has done that to far better teams than us and thats a learning curve. The fact they had to do that shows that we played well and were on top. its those small differences in class like Scholes has that we need to get used to - not rip out what our strengths of the game were.

 

Re MS comment....we can agree to diasgree. I don't know what bids we have had for players so will bow to your superior ITK situation.

 

Scholes has been around for 20 years, if Utd weren't playing well he was definitely coming on, everybody knows how he plays, We weren't prepared to neutralise him we just let him play. He isn't quick he needed stamping on and Richardson or Seaborne could have tight marked him. MS has never figured in paper speculation.

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Aston Villa don't have Paul Scholes, they also aren't Man Utd, the same 70 minutes of pressing, passing, pressure, passing and incisiveness we showed against Man Utd against teams like Villa will leave them dead and buried.

 

Like Wigan then. I get it.

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Again - one match.

 

If its the same after we have played Villa, Everton, Fulham, West ham then fair enough. But too early to panic now - its fine lines.

 

Adkins is going to have to change the system or the midfield if Ramirez is going to play in the middle. We are still trying to find how to play and who to play, that is a problem together with a goalkeeper that is suffering, a left back struggling to adapt, a centre half that is below par giving us a porous defence. Unless we go back to a high tempo pressing game we are going to leak goals.

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if we get roundly beaten by a poor villa goal, 3-0 and it was never in doubt...would you be so calm..?

 

Probably not, no - as only Arsenal (a far better side than Villa) have comprehensively outplayed and walloped us - the other three games we created chances and could have got something from.

 

Wigan - we lost (that was a funny game as it seemed like we all just expected to win easily) and you said yourself in the other thread that your neutral mate said we hit the bar twice and their keeper was MOTM. Plus we have strengthened since then.

 

On the flip side to your scenario - if we win 3-0 vs Villa will all those suggesting radical team changes and saying how poor we are change their mind? IMO yes - they will probably swing week to week through the season.

 

As NA says, "don't get too high when you win, or too low when you lose".

 

There are signs that we have the basis of a good team, now we have a good little period of fixtures where we need to show that, or the flak is going to be justified. But at this stage, some of it is quite frankly, ludicrous.

Edited by Saint Charlie
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Scholes has been around for 20 years, if Utd weren't playing well he was definitely coming on, everybody knows how he plays, We weren't prepared to neutralise him we just let him play. He isn't quick he needed stamping on and Richardson or Seaborne could have tight marked him. MS has never figured in paper speculation.

 

Have you not seen these two play. Either of them playing in the premier league for us gives me nightmares. Especially Seaborne, he struggled in L1. I'm happy with how we're playing at the moment and the way we're going about it. Points will come, don't see reasons for the knee jerk reaction. When Arsenal are on song there arent many teams who will stop them, simple as that.

 

If we're still bottom and in danger of being cut away by xmas, then maybe look at changing the system, but we have proved that we can keep the ball, play well, and score goals in this formation, so why would the management team sack it off after they've probably been working on it for the last 4 months.

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Have you not seen these two play. Either of them playing in the premier league for us gives me nightmares. Especially Seaborne, he struggled in L1. I'm happy with how we're playing at the moment and the way we're going about it. Points will come, don't see reasons for the knee jerk reaction. When Arsenal are on song there arent many teams who will stop them, simple as that.

 

If we're still bottom and in danger of being cut away by xmas, then maybe look at changing the system, but we have proved that we can keep the ball, play well, and score goals in this formation, so why would the management team sack it off after they've probably been working on it for the last 4 months.

 

Now is the time to get it right not Christmas. Adkins won't be given that time anyway so will try and sort it out. It is not a knee jerk reaction as we only brought three new players in this week so there has to be changes in personnel and possibly tactics. The centre backs this week will probably be Fonte and Yoshi as Hooiveld has a calf injury which can take weeks if bad enough. The midfield is work in progress and although it probably won't happen I would like to see Gazzaniga in goal v Villa. If Davis continues his present form I wouldn't want Gazzaniga to have to debut at Everton.

 

I know all about R&S but it needed a defender to close mark Scholes. That means following him everywhere and both of them could have got up Schole's nose by getting at him. Once a player is committed to close mark irrespective of what is happening elsewhere he never leaves his mark, either could have disrupted Scholes by doing that and not damaged the team.

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It is strengthening the defence, giving more defence in the air and covering the full backs. Anybody would think the defence was ok, Fonte and Fox are the finished article they won't get any better. It isn't strong enough and the flaky goalkeeper makes it worse. The third centre back instead of the non defensive holding midfielder might help. The 433/451 with orthodox players isn't working. 40% possession isn't keeping the ball so trying something else isn't a problem. Hoddle played three at the back maybe we should look at that. What I've suggested is halfway there.

 

it didn't work against Arsenal because Arsenal were good. Against Wigan, we never got anyone behind and they made Lambert look like a carthorse. Adding anothere defender won't make the defence stronger. All it would do is invite pressure and make the defence worse. The middle 3 can take a number of forms, but however it gets set up, it needs to not just protect the defence, but also assert itself on the game. If the midfield can't turn defence into attack then they just lose the ball and they have to defend again.The 433 needs a chance and a chance to be done properly, because it can work and does work for most of the league and indeed most of the good teams in Europe.

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Scholes has been around for 20 years, if Utd weren't playing well he was definitely coming on, everybody knows how he plays, We weren't prepared to neutralise him we just let him play. He isn't quick he needed stamping on and Richardson or Seaborne could have tight marked him. MS has never figured in paper speculation.

 

As a slightly nervous flyer, I find it concerning that you were a commercial airline pilot.....I thought good decisions when under pressure is essential!?

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1,154 tickets remaining. Pretty much all of them in the Itchen/Chapel corner.

 

Incredible news. MLG was absolutely adamant that we always used to sell out games like this many days in advance when we were last in the Premier League. Villa are traditionally a big draw, too.

 

Wow. I'm literally stunned that MLG was wrong again.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?39226-Final-season-ticket-holder-number

 

After finding it relatively easy to get tickets for most Championship and League One games for the last 7 years it may change fans will realise how difficult it will be to get tickets in the Premier League and they may be tempted to get a ST for 2013/14.

 

With only 5,500 to sell to non season ticket holders, games will sell out long in advance of kickoff as they did last time we were in the Premier League.

 

You were correct, of course (predictably) for the Man Utd game. For the Wigan game, and for this Villa game; no, not so much.

Edited by The Kraken
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---------------------K Davis

--Clyne------Fonte-----------Hooiveld------Fox

 

---------Schneiderlin---------S Davis

 

--Ramirez-----------Lallana--------------Lee/Chaplow

 

-------------------Lambert

 

Subs: Gazzaniga, Yoshida, Ward-Prowse, Cork, Chaplow/Lee, Puncheon, Mayuka

 

 

Besides Ramirez, this isn't one for 17yo's or blooding home debutants.

Edited by Crab Lungs
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Incredible news. MLG was absolutely adamant that we always used to sell out games like this many days in advance when we were last in the Premier League. Villa are traditionally a big draw, too.

 

Wow. I'm literally stunned that MLG was wrong again.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?39226-Final-season-ticket-holder-number

 

You were correct, of course (predictably) for the Man Utd game. For the Wigan game, and for this Villa game; no, not so much.

 

Please show me where I said "every game", I said "games" and that does not mean every game. It is not me that is wrong... it is you. Yet again Kraken, Turkish etc trying to restart an old argument with me. It is quite pathetic really. Grow up.

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Please show me where I said "every game", I said "games" and that does not mean every game. It is not me that is wrong... it is you. Yet again Kraken, Turkish etc trying to restart an old argument with me. It is quite pathetic really. Grow up.

 

Ha ha ha. I just knew. KNEW it, that you'd of course say that, Matt Le Wrong! But bless your heart in any case.

 

Wrong xx

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To be fair MLG did say we'd sell out most games. Villa is one of the bigger games and they're one of the biggest clubs. Sold out away end means there are less home tickets to sell than Wigan game for example. I'll be our only home game in 4 weeks (2 weeks since United and 2 weeks until Fulham, bar the Sheff Weds cup game) so it's not like fans will need to pick or choose between games coming up soon. We need a win big time which makes the game more important. Not sure how well tickets sell though in the week before games/walk up so maybe we may still sell out? Just over 1,000 to go, don't think a sell out is likely.

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Well that's wonderful stats MLG. Did we sell out either of those games?

 

As I said, we sold more home tickets vs the least attractive opposition in the league than we did in a sold out game vs the most attractive team in the league. If Wigan had sold a full away allocation (like most Premier League teams will) then some of those Saints fans that went to the Wigan game wouldn't have been able to get tickets.

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As I said, we sold more home tickets vs the least attractive opposition in the league than we did in a sold out game vs the most attractive team in the league. If Wigan had sold a full away allocation (like most Premier League teams will) then some of those Saints fans that went to the Wigan game wouldn't have been able to get tickets.

 

Again. We sold out against Man United, did we? Of all home tickets?

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Again. We sold out against Man United, did we? Of all home tickets?

 

Not this again ffs :rolleyes:

 

All remaining tickets for this Sunday's contest with Manchester United at St Mary's were also taken.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/two-games-sell-out-339280.aspx

 

So are you no suggesting the Wigan game was more attractive than the Man Utd game? Because Saints had more fans at the former.

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All of the home corporate seats were taken, were they? Not this again ffs :rolleyes:

 

Or do corporate seats not count as home seats?

 

This is all harping back to stadium expansions, a stadium expansion of non corporate seats doesn't require the current corporate seats to sell out. In any case a better performing/higher profile Saints team will see more corporate interest in the future to possibly warrant corporate area development. Cortese isn't aiming for us to remain as newly promoted relegation favourites year after year, a better team = rise in fanbase, crowds and corporate interest.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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This is all harping back to stadium expansions, a stadium expansion of non corporate seats doesn't require the current corporate seats to sell out. In any case a better performing team will see more corporate interest.

 

It's harping back to nothing else apart from you saying the stadium was sold out for the Man Utd game. Were your wrong to say it was sold out?

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No.

 

Bored now.

 

So it was sold out?

 

I'm pretty sure it wasn't. An attendance of 31,609, more than 1,000 less than capacity, would say that it wasn't a full stadium. And various reports on here testify to lots of corporate seats not having sold, and thus being empty. As well as the exec boxes too.

 

Does "bored now" actually mean "Oh f*ck, I'm wrong, but please God don't ever make me admit it or call me up on my obvious mistakes"? Seems like it to me.

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To be fair MLG did say we'd sell out most games. Villa is one of the bigger games and they're one of the biggest clubs. Sold out away end means there are less home tickets to sell than Wigan game for example. I'll be our only home game in 4 weeks (2 weeks since United and 2 weeks until Fulham, bar the Sheff Weds cup game) so it's not like fans will need to pick or choose between games coming up soon. We need a win big time which makes the game more important. Not sure how well tickets sell though in the week before games/walk up so maybe we may still sell out? Just over 1,000 to go, don't think a sell out is likely.

 

1000 is nothing with two games to go. We will sell out. Sometimes we have sold that amount on walk up.

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