aintforever Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 I seriously doubt we have Charlton's sh!ttest ever manager deciding who we buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 I seriously doubt we have Charlton's sh!ttest ever manager deciding who we buy. Well it's there in black and white. Unless he's lying of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Spot on Turks. But don't take yours (or my) word for it; here's Les Reed to tell us how the land lies behind the scene: Originally Posted by Lou Reed Talented bloke, all this and part of the Velvet Underground as well. Star man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 I seriously doubt we have Charlton's sh!ttest ever manager deciding who we buy. As Turkish says; how do you quantify Reed's own words? Over-exaggeration? Lying? Misquoted? Fake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Yep; Adkins coaches the team, Reed is responsible for scouting and recruitment, Cortese oversees that. As they say, FACT. Isn't there someone called Paul Mitchell that is involved high up.... Where does he sit on the blame bus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Talented bloke, all this and part of the Velvet Underground as well. Star man. Every day he goes to work is a perfect day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Isn't there someone called Paul Mitchell that is involved high up.... Where does he sit on the blame bus? I think he's head scout, so would report into Reed. Although that's just from memory so I stand to be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Isn't there someone called Paul Mitchell that is involved high up.... Where does he sit on the blame bus? DD, you seem to be exceptionally paranoid today. Nobody is blaming anyone, are they? But here's the whole article in any case. http://www.2ndyellow.com/2012/five-minutes-of-your-time-please-les-reed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Well it's there in black and white. Unless he's lying of course. Where did you read it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Ok... Where does the other people sit..... Seeing as this thread is about who is responsible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Where did you read it? See the link Kraken posted above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Ultimately NC will be responsible as he oversee's the entire structure. The assumption that NA has little or no input into transfers is not logical however. Why was NA in Holland watching Yoshida and and was also travlling to watch Mayuka LAST SEASON if we has no say or involement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 As Turkish says; how do you quantify Reed's own words? Over-exaggeration? Lying? Misquoted? Fake? I think he is pumping himself up a little. I doubt he gets final say on all first team transfers. You can be "head of recruitment" in a business without being the person who employs everyone. On first team players there is clearly a committee thing going on but Adkins has a say no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Ultimately NC will be responsible as he oversee's the entire structure. The assumption that NA has little or no input into transfers is not logical however. Why was NA in Holland watching Yoshida and and was also travlling to watch Mayuka LAST SEASON if we has no say or involement Well by Reeds own words, he is responsible for Scouting and recruitment, overseen by Cortese while Adkins coaches the team. So unless Reid is lying or exaggerating, those two are culpable for failing to recruit the players in the positions Adkins wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Well by Reeds own words, he is responsible for Scouting and recruitment, overseen by Cortese while Adkins coaches the team. So unless Reid is lying or exaggerating, those two are culpable for failing to recruit the players in the positions Adkins wanted. What about Paul Mitchell..... Who adkins has quoted a number of times working on deals and over seeing deals to bring players in...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 See the link Kraken posted above. That's pretty vague, Adkins could still have final say on first team signings. "Responsible for recruitment" could mean he just does the paperwork and hires the backroom staff etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 I think he is pumping himself up a little. I doubt he gets final say on all first team transfers. You can be "head of recruitment" in a business without being the person who employs everyone. On first team players there is clearly a committee thing going on but Adkins has a say no doubt. Yep, I do agree with this. One of my best mates is head of player recruitment for a Championship football club. Yet doesn't have the final say as to who the actual players are that the club should sign, he is more responsible for concluding the deals . Every club is different, so job titles are little to go by. I choose to believe what I've always thought, really. That NA is part of a transfer committee. That he often identifies particular players that he wants. That he often identifies player positions he needs, and that the committee researches and compiles a list of potential signings. And that on some occasions the committee choose to bring in a player without direct initial input from the manager (I consider Ramirez to be one of these). Just as Lowe previously did with Niemi, Cruch, and Delgado. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Well by Reeds own words, he is responsible for Scouting and recruitment, overseen by Cortese while Adkins coaches the team. So unless Reid is lying or exaggerating, those two are culpable for failing to recruit the players in the positions Adkins wanted. If we get relegated because of a lack of defensive signings the entire structure and all those involved will be culpable....Adkins included. If you take Reeds quotes literally and Adkins only role is to coach the players the club provides, why was he travelling and watching players way before they actually sign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 What about Paul Mitchell..... Who adkins has quoted a number of times working on deals and over seeing deals to bring players in...? What about him? Haivg just looked at the staff list he's scouting and recruitment manager so will work for Reed, one of the 50 people who report into him, not one of the three coaches that report into Adkins. And I've never seen a quote where Adkins mentions him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 That's pretty vague, Adkins could still have final say on first team signings. "Responsible for recruitment" could mean he just does the paperwork and hires the backroom staff etc. How is it vague? It's an interview where Reed directly says he is responsible for scouting and recruitment and Cortese oversees it and Adkins job is to coach the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Yep, I do agree with this. One of my best mates is head of player recruitment for a Championship football club. Yet doesn't have the final say as to who the actual players are that the club should sign, he is more responsible for concluding the deals . Every club is different, so job titles are little to go by. I choose to believe what I've always thought, really. That NA is part of a transfer committee. That he often identifies particular players that he wants. That he often identifies player positions he needs, and that the committee researches and compiles a list of potential signings. And that on some occasions the committee choose to bring in a player without direct initial input from the manager (I consider Ramirez to be one of these). Just as Lowe previously did with Niemi, Cruch, and Delgado. It is what it is. Sounds about right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 If we get relegated because of a lack of defensive signings the entire structure and all those involved will be culpable....Adkins included. If you take Reeds quotes literally and Adkins only role is to coach the players the club provides, why was he travelling and watching players way before they actually sign? I don't disagree with that, however Adkins has said many times what he wanted, if the person responsible for recruitment doesn't deliver that then who carries the can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 I don't disagree with that, however Adkins has said many times what he wanted, if the person responsible for recruitment doesn't deliver that then who carries the can? Well he said he wanted 1 CB, maybe 2.....he got 1 He also said he wanted 1 GK, maybe 2....he got 1 one plus a development keeper. This whole "Adkins never got what he wanted" line is a little misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Well he said he wanted 1 CB, maybe 2.....he got 1 He also said he wanted 1 GK, maybe 2....he got 1 one plus a development keeper. This whole "Adkins never got what he wanted" line is a little misleading. Not really, like everything Adkins says he was no doubt playing it down. Why say he wanted 'maybe 2' if he only ever wanted one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Well he said he wanted 1 CB, maybe 2.....he got 1 He also said he wanted 1 GK, maybe 2....he got 1 one plus a development keeper. This whole "Adkins never got what he wanted" line is a little misleading. Close, I suppose. NA said he wanted a keeper or two. Gazzaniga, is he a true first team player? Who knows, we've yet to see him. Cropper is a development keeper and absolutely nothing more; he has not even been named in our squad (unlike almost every other development squad player) so, right now, is not eligible to play for us at the top level. We also clearly wanted a left back, failed with one, and failed to get another one. Anyone who suggests Shaw is an adequate backup either hasn't seen him play or is living in a dream world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Well he said he wanted 1 CB, maybe 2.....he got 1 He also said he wanted 1 GK, maybe 2....he got 1 one plus a development keeper. This whole "Adkins never got what he wanted" line is a little misleading. Left Back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 He also said he wanted 1 GK, maybe 2....he got 1 one plus a development keeper. I struggle to believe that when he said that, he meant a development keeper and another with 20 appearances in League Two. Are either of them genuinely expected to challenge Kelvin Davis for a first-team place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 I struggle to believe that when he said that, he meant a development keeper and another with 20 appearances in League Two. Are either of them genuinely expected to challenge Kelvin Davis for a first-team place? If they thought Davis was/is good enough and the scouting of Gazza showed that he was the real deal, not inconsievable to believe that they want a season to integrate. We were also linked to Butland who had a similar amount of games at the same level domestically so if they thought he was as good at much better value then whats the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 If they thought Davis was/is good enough and the scouting of Gazza showed that he was the real deal, not inconsievable to believe that they want a season to integrate. We were also linked to Butland who had a similar amount of games at the same level domestically so if they thought he was as good at much better value then whats the difference? Flipping it: do you believe the club got the level of goalkeepers they had previously targeted at the start of the window? In addition; do you believe we got the level of goalkeepers we needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Anybody see Adkins quoted as saying he wanted Del Piero? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Flipping it: do you believe the club got the level of goalkeepers they had previously targeted at the start of the window? In addition; do you believe we got the level of goalkeepers we needed? First question is difficult to answer. If they thought Davis was good enough and that Gazza is a real talent then they may have been content, yes. Second question....I don't think Kelvin is good enough having seen his performances so far. If Gazza isnt ready to come in any time soon then I think we will drop uneccessary points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Anybody see Adkins quoted as saying he wanted Del Piero? Yeah, my mate Karl Ponde (a sheep), was banging on about it for weeks up in the top field back at the back of my house in June, reckons he's got Adkins mobile number. Having said that, he's a f*ckin' sheep, so what the f*ck would he know about Premier League football (or the international transfer market, come to that)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 First question is difficult to answer. If they thought Davis was good enough and that Gazza is a real talent then they may have been content, yes. Second question....I don't think Kelvin is good enough having seen his performances so far. If Gazza isnt ready to come in any time soon then I think we will drop uneccessary points. Good answers. My view is that we either need Gazza to come in to the team immediately and sort it out (I genuinely don't think he can be any worse than Kelvin) or we need an emergency loan keeper. Our lack of quality at left back and our other centre back, well we might have to live to regret that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Yeah, my mate Karl Ponde (a sheep), was banging on about it for weeks up in the top field back at the back of my house in June, reckons he's got Adkins mobile number. Having said that, he's a f*ckin' sheep, so what the f*ck would he know about Premier League football (or the international transfer market, come to that)? All sounds a bit woolly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Good answers. My view is that we either need Gazza to come in to the team immediately and sort it out (I genuinely don't think he can be any worse than Kelvin) or we need an emergency loan keeper. Our lack of quality at left back and our other centre back, well we might have to live to regret that. No one can bring themselves to say who is responsible for it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 No one can bring themselves to say who is responsible for it though. Everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Everyone Even the manager who identified the positions he wanted to strengthen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Good answers. My view is that we either need Gazza to come in to the team immediately and sort it out (I genuinely don't think he can be any worse than Kelvin) or we need an emergency loan keeper. Our lack of quality at left back and our other centre back, well we might have to live to regret that. Yea, completely agree. I think left back position in particular will really hurt us unless Fox improves significantly. And to be honest, I personally think that if he focused on his concentration and positioning, he can be way more effective. I've seen Shaw a couple of times and always thought he looked really good so might be an option. I know people say he was poor against stevenage but he was hospitalised soon after with a nasty illness. Maybe benefit of the doubt required? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 No one can bring themselves to say who is responsible for it though. That's true. For me, it's NA at fault to some extent, but far behind Cortese and Lou Reed as they head the transfer committee. We should have rebuilt our team from the back; we didn't. We built from the front, and (questionably) spent £25M on a forward line of Rodriguez, Ramirez and Mayuka. And I truly believe the Ramirez transfer at the very least was instigated without the consent of the manager. Nigel very early on highlighted other areas of the pitch that needed to be sorted, and they didn't get fully addressed. That's how I see it, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 No one can bring themselves to say who is responsible for it though. I said ultimately it will be Cortese's responsibility. However, if Adkins said he was happy with Davis and happy for us to get a young promising keeper rather than a number 1 then responsibilty is soon fragmented isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 Even the manager who identified the positions he wanted to strengthen? Yep...... We have no idea what went on do we...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 That's true. For me, it's NA at fault to some extent, but far behind Cortese and Lou Reed as they head the transfer committee. We should have rebuilt our team from the back; we didn't. We built from the front, and (questionably) spent £25M on a forward line of Rodriguez, Ramirez and Mayuka. And I truly believe the Ramirez transfer at the very least was instigated without the consent of the manager. Nigel very early on highlighted other areas of the pitch that needed to be sorted, and they didn't get fully addressed. That's how I see it, anyway. And how I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 That's true. For me, it's NA at fault to some extent, but far behind Cortese and Lou Reed as they head the transfer committee. We should have rebuilt our team from the back; we didn't. We built from the front, and (questionably) spent £25M on a forward line of Rodriguez, Ramirez and Mayuka. And I truly believe the Ramirez transfer at the very least was instigated without the consent of the manager. Nigel very early on highlighted other areas of the pitch that needed to be sorted, and they didn't get fully addressed. That's how I see it, anyway. It's almost like buying Gaston Ramirez was, say, the Johnstone's Paint Trophy, whereas buying a centre back and a left back was, say, getting into the League 1 play offs. Sometimes people just don't agree on priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 The whole thing smells strongly of Clifford and his belief you can turn ordinary players into big stars and his mentor Sir Clive Woodward's interference in managing the club. Didn't work then and although it's got us 2 promotions back to the Premier League, it's just not going to work this time around. Find it hard to believe all that Reed is saying. Rather like he's downplaying Nigel's role and bigging up his own importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 The whole thing smells strongly of Clifford and his belief you can turn ordinary players into big stars and his mentor Sir Clive Woodward's interference in managing the club. Didn't work then and although it's got us 2 promotions back to the Premier League, it's just not going to work this time around. Find it hard to believe all that Reed is saying. Rather like he's downplaying Nigel's role and bigging up his own importance. :lol: Nonsense as ever!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 The whole thing smells strongly of Clifford and his belief you can turn ordinary players into big stars and his mentor Sir Clive Woodward's interference in managing the club. Didn't work then and although it's got us 2 promotions back to the Premier League, it's just not going to work this time around. Find it hard to believe all that Reed is saying. Rather like he's downplaying Nigel's role and bigging up his own importance. I think it smells strongly of Lowe recommending the club to Cortese and Harry Redknapp ringing up Leibherr and convincing him to buy the club. Or whatever garbage you were coming out with the other day. They call you the Fox for your razor sharp perception, do they not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanfairoak Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 if everyone thinks everything is honky dory at sms they are in for a shock, news to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 if everyone thinks everything is honky dory at sms they are in for a shock, news to follow. When? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 if everyone thinks everything is honky dory at sms they are in for a shock, news to follow. Look forward to that then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 19 September, 2012 Share Posted 19 September, 2012 if everyone thinks everything is honky dory at sms they are in for a shock, news to follow. When will this news be following? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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