Who is responsible...

[Dig Dig]

We have no way of knowing in either case, so its pure speculation on both our parts. Just a personal opinion, but I don't think we filled the main priority positions that NA identified (I still find the signings of Mayuka and Rodriguez to be a little bizarre at this stage). You disagree, I respect that, I guess we'll never find out one way or the other.

 

I do agree that we didn't strengthen the defense enough, particularly left back and GK. However I dont agree that these positions were deliberately overlooked or that Adkins wishes were ignored. There are a multitude of reasons why we didnt strengthen in some areas as as you say, we can only speculate. However, like with the striker position last year I would imagine that if we didnt get all our targets over the summer, we'll revisit it in Jan. Hopefully it wont be too late by then.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Its all you've got, isnt it ?

 

Ha ha...no but true never the less...

 

You are entitled to an opinion as is anyone but i cannot understand your need to post it

some many times and on so many threads..

[eurosaint]

Blaming the fixture list for our poor standing after 4 games... :lol:

 

Wonder what excuse we'll hear after the Villa and Everton games...

 

Nobody is 'blaming' the fixture list but rational, sensible football people would accept that we were faced with a pretty awesome start to this Premier league campaign !

Even Big Sam on the Sky 'Goals on Sunday' programme this morning conceded that we had been unfortunate with our early opponents and said that a hammering from one of the top clubs was inevitable now and then during the season !

As for the Villa and Everton matches, no point in prejudging anything IMO although it seems that you have already decided that we will lose both !!

[Fitzhugh Fella]

For me, the number of points won at this stage is irrelevant, everyone knew that in all likelihood we'd have 0-3 points from the first 4 games. What is relevant, however, is the performances in those games.

 

We've only played well in one of the three games, and still managed to toss that game away in the last 5 minutes because of our woeful defence. Man City could have had 5 or 6 without breaking sweat, a feat Arsenal - a team supposedly struggling up front - managed quite comfortably.

 

While there's absolutely no problem in reinforcing a strong attack, to do so without serious addressing a defence that got away with a hell of a lot last season is almost negligent. We had a deal for Buttner which fell through for whatever reason, but we were clearly chasing a new left-back, and after that deal hit a dead end it appears as though we had no Plan B for that position. We were willing to chuck £6m Birmingham's way for Jack Butland but then when they rejected the offer we gave up signing another first-team keeper. For all of Davis' many faults, would any of us chuck Gazzaniga or Cropper into a Premier League game ahead of him?

 

Yoshida seems a decent signing at centre-back, but having let Aaron Martin go on loan for the season (the right decision, IMO), that signing merely takes us back to where we were at the end of last season, with 3 first-team centre-backs - I'm not convinced Dan Seaborne would be in contention at any stage if everyone was fit, and Hooiveld's injury he picked up yesterday leaves us with no backup. Meanwhile we have as many strikers and attacking midfielders to fill 5 teams.

 

In terms of who's responsible for our lop-sided squad, there is a committee of sorts, comprising of Adkins, Cortese and Reed, with input from our scouting network. Some of our signings are fairly clear as to their origin - Ramirez, for example, is clearly a Cortese signing, his two-week "holiday" coincided with the negotiations for that deal and all the comments from both the player and Adkins have said as much - but I would certainly hope that Adkins, as the man who's going to be working with these players every day in training, has a significant input, whether that's a casting vote, power of veto or whatever.

 

I can't say I'm overly keen on someone with only three years' involvement in football (and none at the highest level) unilaterally making signings. It was deemed unacceptable when a certain ex-chairman was alleged to have done so, I see no reason why it's OK now all of a sudden.

 

 

Very astute Steve and I concur with 100% of what you say. I was delighted to get Ramirez but can't help think the lack of players with premiership experience in our signings will come back to haunt us - esp in the gk dept. Good post.

[Norm]

Nobody is 'blaming' the fixture list but rational, sensible football people would accept that we were faced with a pretty awesome start to this Premier league campaign !

Even Big Sam on the Sky 'Goals on Sunday' programme this morning conceded that we had been unfortunate with our early opponents and said that a hammering from one of the top clubs was inevitable now and then during the season !

As for the Villa and Everton matches, no point in prejudging anything IMO although it seems that you have already decided that we will lose both !!

 

Agree with every word. We play 3 of the top 4 teams and the world falls apart, lol.

[Wade Garrett]

Nobody is 'blaming' the fixture list but rational, sensible football people would accept that we were faced with a pretty awesome start to this Premier league campaign !

Even Big Sam on the Sky 'Goals on Sunday' programme this morning conceded that we had been unfortunate with our early opponents and said that a hammering from one of the top clubs was inevitable now and then during the season !

As for the Villa and Everton matches, no point in prejudging anything IMO although it seems that you have already decided that we will lose both !!

 

Big Sam is playing games. He hardly wants the best for us does he!

[david in sweden]

It's obvious that Cortese was at an advantage to buy Ramirez from an Italian club...I don't know how an English manager might have handled the situation?....

but whether a player is from Switzerland, Holland or Japan doesn't really matter - if they are the real thing. Good players exist in every country and it shows vision and ambition to buy such talents.

 

One thing I haven't seen highlighted about all of our new signings ...(aside from their apparant youth and Steve Davis excluded) .is that they have some sortof international experience - even at a junior level.

Normally buying in such players gives you time to integrate them into the normal team selection ....in a successful side....and now ....at the highest level, but half the side are from our L1 days !

 

Our real problem now is to find the balance - and quickly! Getting a few points on the board will give us a breathing space. Another 4 games without a convincing win will create real problems.

We may be playing attractive football.... at times, but without a result at the end of 95 minutes, we'll need a few miracles if we are to avoid still being bottom club by New Year.

Edited 17 September, 2012 by david in sweden

[Gordon Mockles]

Very astute Steve and I concur with 100% of what you say. I was delighted to get Ramirez but can't help think the lack of players with premiership experience in our signings will come back to haunt us - esp in the gk dept. Good post.

 

Premier League is about the last 20mins as City proved and I predicted (along with many no doubt) a repeat for United. I cited the subs not helping but do concur Lallana works hard and he and Lambert may well have been shattered but bringing on an untested forward from another league in such a critical time of the match was a risk. My main concern with Adkins (or the committee) is the emphasis on forward play without shoring up the already wobbly defence. Fox is good going forward but defensively leaves us exposed hence the scouting for Butner. No point in identifying weaknesses if we don't address it otherwise it appears like a PR exercise. Many identified this weakness and Yoshida was reassuring but LB is still a concern (Shaw would be a help but the committee think he is now ready so respect their judgement) and this lack of bolstering has proved an issue which has bit us on the a*se but let's not overdo it. We played well v City and Utd for periods but mental fatigue or concentration and fitness and lack of experience against such unforgiving opposition punished us but I like to think we have learnt so put it down to experience. If we keep throwing away games, then it will be a problem but a sense of perspective is needed. We never do well against the Gooners.

[Ewell]

For me, the number of points won at this stage is irrelevant, everyone knew that in all likelihood we'd have 0-3 points from the first 4 games. What is relevant, however, is the performances in those games.

 

We've only played well in one of the three games, and still managed to toss that game away in the last 5 minutes because of our woeful defence. Man City could have had 5 or 6 without breaking sweat, a feat Arsenal - a team supposedly struggling up front - managed quite comfortably.

 

While there's absolutely no problem in reinforcing a strong attack, to do so without serious addressing a defence that got away with a hell of a lot last season is almost negligent. We had a deal for Buttner which fell through for whatever reason, but we were clearly chasing a new left-back, and after that deal hit a dead end it appears as though we had no Plan B for that position. We were willing to chuck £6m Birmingham's way for Jack Butland but then when they rejected the offer we gave up signing another first-team keeper. For all of Davis' many faults, would any of us chuck Gazzaniga or Cropper into a Premier League game ahead of him?

 

Yoshida seems a decent signing at centre-back, but having let Aaron Martin go on loan for the season (the right decision, IMO), that signing merely takes us back to where we were at the end of last season, with 3 first-team centre-backs - I'm not convinced Dan Seaborne would be in contention at any stage if everyone was fit, and Hooiveld's injury he picked up yesterday leaves us with no backup. Meanwhile we have as many strikers and attacking midfielders to fill 5 teams.

 

In terms of who's responsible for our lop-sided squad, there is a committee of sorts, comprising of Adkins, Cortese and Reed, with input from our scouting network. Some of our signings are fairly clear as to their origin - Ramirez, for example, is clearly a Cortese signing, his two-week "holiday" coincided with the negotiations for that deal and all the comments from both the player and Adkins have said as much - but I would certainly hope that Adkins, as the man who's going to be working with these players every day in training, has a significant input, whether that's a casting vote, power of veto or whatever.

 

I can't say I'm overly keen on someone with only three years' involvement in football (and none at the highest level) unilaterally making signings. It was deemed unacceptable when a certain ex-chairman was alleged to have done so, I see no reason why it's OK now all of a sudden.

 

Good post and one I completely agree with.

 

We are in a Brendan Rogers and Liverpool situation in that we are where we are and we just have to get on with it with the players we have got. I am hoping that one or two of the kids rise up to the plate but the pressure for them to succeed could see their development compromised which would be a great shame. I believe that confidence is everything in football and a couple more poor performances with minimal points and I honestly think the fan base will start to turn on the players backs.

[david in sweden]

We must put this nonsense into perspective.

 

Three of the last four matches we've played have been against teams who hardly lost a dozen games between them last season ........thank God we don't have Chelsea next week.

As we have seen in many seasons past, the actual difference between Championship and Premier League .is more than just moving from 21st/22nd /23rd in the land ...and just moving up three places.

 

if those three matches had been played in October, November and December...the results may well have been the same .or worse.....but taking them all at one time... and being so critical is just stupid !

Edited 17 September, 2012 by david in sweden

[alpine_saint]

We must put this nonsense into perspective.

 

Three of the last four games we've played have been against teams who hardly lost a dozen games between them last season ........thank God we don't have Chelsea next week.

 

 

No, we have Aston Villa; how will you spin it if that goes tits-up ?

[ART]

Agree with every word. We play 3 of the top 4 teams and the world falls apart, lol.

Sorry Norm and Eurosaint, but traditionally Saints beat the top 3 or 4 clubs and lose to the likes of relegation strugglers, non entities and the Wigans of the League. Here we have a scenario where we lost to the top 3 and Wigan.

 

So what can we expect in the months to come? Pink Champagne and Soda Pop

 

PS I forgot to mention the obvious. Traditionally we've always had bad starts to the season where Christmas Humble Pie is on the menu for the weak hearted.

Edited 17 September, 2012 by ART

[eurosaint]

Sorry Norm and Eurosaint, but traditionally Saints beat the top 3 or 4 clubs and lose to the likes of relegation strugglers, non entities and the Wigans of the League. Here we have a scenario where we lost to the top 3 and Wigan.

 

So what can we expect in the months to come? Pink Champagne and Soda Pops?

 

TBF Art, I think that the gap between the rich and poor has widened dramatically since we were last in the top league and these shock results are less and less prevalent !

We are in a league of about 12 and do need to perform in those matches !

I accept that Wigan was a big let down but hopefully we have learned from it and can find a way to win against this sort of opposition !

[VectisSaint]

No, we have Aston Villa; how will you spin it if that goes tits-up ?

And how will you respond if it doesn't go tits-up? I expect in the same way you always respond, negatively. Why don't you just for once wait and see. If we lose to Villa feel free to come out with the usual "told you so" stuff and nonsense, regardless of the result or performance.

[Window Cleaner]

No, we have Aston Villa; how will you spin it if that goes tits-up ?

 

I expect it not to go tits up, then again I expect us not to start KD.

[Turkish]

I think we all know who is to blame If we are honest with ourselves. The manager has been saying all summer that he wanted two centre halves, 1 or 2 goalkeepers, I'm sure he wasnt referring to an under 20 for the development squad as his second and we were clearly trying to sign a left back. The fact we managed to get two of those five and spent a lot of time chasing strikers and marquee signings suggests that the managers requests were by and large ignored by those the club responsible for bringing gthe players in. Unless of course Nige was lying all summer and telling the media one thing whilst saying something different behind closed doors.

[Thedelldays]

I think we all know who is to blame If we are honest with ourselves. The manager has been saying all summer that he wanted two centre halves, 1 or 2 goalkeepers, I'm sure he wasnt referring to an under 20 for the development squad as his second and we were clearly trying to sign a left back. The fact we managed to get two of those five and spent a lot of time chasing strikers and marquee signings suggests that the managers requests were by and large ignored by those the club responsible for bringing gthe players in. Unless of course Nige was lying all summer and telling the media one thing whilst saying something different behind closed doors.

 

Not like you to have a pop at nc is it

 

All managers want 1 or 2 more players

[Turkish]

Not like you to have a pop at nc is it

 

All managers want 1 or 2 more players

 

So was Adkins lying then? He said what he wanted on numerous occasions, either lied to the media or he wasnt backedby the chairman with bringing in the players he wanted. It can't be finance because we spent £20m in the last two weeks of the window. Time has proven Adkins to be right, has it not? we do need a keeper, left back and another centre back and now were looking at free agents as a a sticky plaster because we've failed to address it in the window.

[Thedelldays]

So was Adkins lying then? He said what he wanted on numerous occasions, either lied to the media or he wasnt backedby the chairman with bringing in the players he wanted. It can't be finance because we spent £20m in the last two weeks of the window. Time has proven Adkins to be right, has it not? we do need a keeper, left back and another centre back and now were looking at free agents as a a sticky plaster because we've failed to address it in the window.

 

I'm sure he did want more players.... I'm sure would more more midfielders... More keepers.... More coaches

 

None of us have a clue how transfers are conducted..... Maybe say Curtis Davies was available and adkins said no..... We just don't know

 

But hey. Must be all NCs fauly

[alpine_saint]

Not like you to have a pop at nc is it

 

All managers want 1 or 2 more players

 

What an incredible post.

 

The defenders were NOT "nice-to-have" luxury players. They should have been top of the list for the summer activity

 

Why ?

 

We had a super attack last season, top scorers in the Championship. They would still have done a job of sorts for the first few games this season. OK, long term we could question their PL quality, but they still would have contributed.

 

The defence on the other hand, couldnt even handle games against our Championship peers, FFS. The defending against Reading for one was an utter embarassment.

[lordswoodsaints]

I think we lost our way in the transfer market,left it too late,didn't have a backup if the no.1 targets fell through and panic set in.....I don't know the reasons why this happened and tbh it's not as if we weren't expecting to be promoted as we led the league for most of the season and were nearly always in an automatic promotion slot,

Somebody or some persons didn't do their homework/job properly and regardless of the horrific start the league threw at us we are still not fully stocked in all departments and this is going to cost us dear.

[alpine_saint]

I think we lost our way in the transfer market,left it too late,didn't have a backup if the no.1 targets fell through and panic set in.....I don't know the reasons why this happened and tbh it's not as if we weren't expecting to be promoted as we led the league for most of the season and were nearly always in an automatic promotion slot,

Somebody or some persons didn't do their homework/job properly and regardless of the horrific start the league threw at us we are still not fully stocked in all departments and this is going to cost us dear.

 

Yep, this a very good post, and the bit I've highlighted is especially pertinent; I've made it myself in the past. Did we really have a 5 year plan or loads of single year plans ?

[shurlock]

I think we all know who is to blame If we are honest with ourselves. The manager has been saying all summer that he wanted two centre halves, 1 or 2 goalkeepers, I'm sure he wasnt referring to an under 20 for the development squad as his second and we were clearly trying to sign a left back. The fact we managed to get two of those five and spent a lot of time chasing strikers and marquee signings suggests that the managers requests were by and large ignored by those the club responsible for bringing gthe players in. Unless of course Nige was lying all summer and telling the media one thing whilst saying something different behind closed doors.

 

Did he mention two CBs - I never heard that? We have no way of knowing what's happened -and there's no reason to think Adkins hasn't been supported with his transfers. Its not irrational that transfers are done by committee -its done on the continent and in other sports- and there's no reason to think it was harmful in this case.

And we were linked with various CBs (Davis, Kana-Biyik, Dann, Fontas) and LBs (Olsson, Boilesen) - and no doubt many others we'll never hear of. Arguably, there were more rumours linking us with defenders than attackers.

For whatever reason, none worked out. Misguided priorities is one possible explanation but its not the only or even the most convincing one. Large transfers are complicated things, especially when we're punching above our weight to attract quality. If anything we set our sights too high, though if we hadn't, we would have been shot down for setting them too low.

[Turkish]

He said on a couple of occasions we will bring in one or two centre halves and one maybe two goal keepers. I can't be arsed to find the quote, it suggests he was after two in each position as well as the fact we loaned Martin and Jaidi retired and Seaborne not the man for the job as well as the left back we were clearly trying to get. The committee clearly agreed awe were linked with loads of defenders and keepers yet only managed to sign one. So for whatever reason the positions the manager identified as strengthening haven't been adequately.

[Turkish]

What an incredible post.

 

The defenders were NOT "nice-to-have" luxury players. They should have been top of the list for the summer activity

 

Why ?

 

We had a super attack last season, top scorers in the Championship. They would still have done a job of sorts for the first few games this season. OK, long term we could question their PL quality, but they still would have contributed.

 

The defence on the other hand, couldnt even handle games against our Championship peers, FFS. The defending against Reading for one was an utter embarassment.

 

Agree with most of that. As I've said many times, teams that stay up and do well have a solid back four and keeper. Who remembers our relegation season in 2005 when we could score but couldn't defend and failed to sign a centre half good enough. Lots of late and sloppy goals conceded then as well.

[Turkish]

I'm sure he did want more players.... I'm sure would more more midfielders... More keepers.... More coaches

 

None of us have a clue how transfers are conducted..... Maybe say Curtis Davies was available and adkins said no..... We just don't know

 

But hey. Must be all NCs fauly

 

If a manger identifies positions that need strengthening and it doesn't happen then whose responsibility is it then?

[The Kraken]

I'm not sure why people have to be such revisionists in a staunch defence of the club.

 

As Turkish said; the manager very clearly said that he wanted to strengthen the defence with a couple of CBs and a left back, as well as bringing in a couple of GKs. That didn't happen, so by its very nature something failed.

 

People can gloss over it all they like with whys, wherefore and other such justifcation of how its no-one's fault (least of all the club), but it remains that the manager identified a need to replace the back line and didn't fulfill that. As a consequence we've played 4 games and conceded at least 2 goals in every single game (with a good deal of the goals we've let in clearly down to individiual errors from some of the players the manager was hoping to replace).

[mulletsaint]

Yep, this a very good post, and the bit I've highlighted is especially pertinent; I've made it myself in the past. Did we really have a 5 year plan or loads of single year plans ?

 

I think a couple of you have kinda answered your own questions. In my opinion we have on the whole bought players that the managers, both Pardew and Adkins, thought could make the step up. Players like Lambert, Fox and Fonte from what i remember of quotes at the time were brought in because it was thought they would be a success in all divisions. While others like Hammond, Barnard and Harding are examples of players who were probably seen as a means to an end, namely to get us where we wanted to be but not necessarily to keep us there. I'd imagine on the whole the players we have in the squad are those that it was felt could make the step up. Of course managers make errors of judgement all the time but this could explain why players that are getting a slating on here are actually still very much in Adkins' plans.

 

It could also explain why NC could have felt justified in not purchasing as many of Nigel's defensive targets and going for the exciting signings instead (conjecture). I'll admit that NC meddling does seem a plausible reason but this is far from being the proven fact that some on here seem to think.

[shurlock]

I'm not sure why people have to be such revisionists in a staunch defence of the club.

 

As Turkish said; the manager very clearly said that he wanted to strengthen the defence with a couple of CBs and a left back, as well as bringing in a couple of GKs. That didn't happen, so by its very nature something failed.

 

People can gloss over it all they like with whys, wherefore and other such justifcation of how its no-one's fault (least of all the club), but it remains that the manager identified a need to replace the back line and didn't fulfill that. As a consequence we've played 4 games and conceded at least 2 goals in every single game (with a good deal of the goals we've let in clearly down to individiual errors from some of the players the manager was hoping to replace).

 

Failed? S**t happens - players don't want to come to us; we don't meet teams valuations -there are an endless number of reasons. Would things have been different under a different set up, perhaps slightly but I doubt it would have been vastly different. Newly promoted teams need to establish themselves before they can attract a certain calibre of player. Ramirez is the exception not the rule, a spectacular coup yet some think we could have repeated that success for a defender if only we had put our minds to it. Utter ********, the fantasy of football manger games.

Of course, we have had no problems recruiting NPC players -Jrod, Clyne- but to date (though its still early days) those players have been as much part of the problem as the solution. Just look at Derby - they strengthened all the required positions -hell they virtually replaced an entire team. But without sufficient quality, where did it get them?

Edited 18 September, 2012 by shurlock

[mulletsaint]

I'm not sure why people have to be such revisionists in a staunch defence of the club.

 

For the same reason some are willing to slate the club at every turn. There are relentlessly positive idiots and relentlessly negative idiots. The reality is probably somewhere in between.

 

As you and Turkish say, something failed but who or what it was is unknown and any thoughts we put on here are merely guesses. It could be other clubs fault, NC's fault, someone else within the club, targets not wanting to come, not agreeing on any one of a multitude terms of a potential deal with either the player or the selling club, other clubs being unwilling to sell. Who knows? I'll happily debate it all day long but it would be nice of we could have a bit less of the histrionics.

[alpine_saint]

Failed? S**t happens - players don't want to come to us; we don't meet teams valuations -there are an endless number of reasons. Would things have been different under a different set up, perhaps slightly but I doubt it would have been vastly different. Newly promoted teams need to establish themselves before they can attract a certain calibre of player. Ramirez is the exception not the rule, a spectacular coup yet some think we could have repeated that success for a defender if only we had put our minds to it. Utter ********, the fantasy of football manger games.

Of course, we have had no problems recruiting NPC players -Jrod, Clyne- but to date (though its still early days) those players have been as much part of the problem as the solution. Just look at Derby - they strengthened all the required positions -hell they virtually replaced an entire team. But without sufficient quality, where did it get them?

 

Which is why you have back-up targets and leave yourself plenty of time to do the business in, which why every year I bemoan the lateness of our f**king transfer activity. If you want to re-inforce, want to strengthen, want to add quality, you have to pay for it and do it in a timely manner. From the Ramirez deal its seems for the first time ever we were in the position financially to properly prepare ourselves for a PL season - and we f**king blew it.

[shurlock]

Which is why you have back-up targets and leave yourself plenty of time to do the business in, which why every year I bemoan the lateness of our f**king transfer activity. If you want to re-inforce, want to strengthen, want to add quality, you have to pay for it and do it in a timely manner. From the Ramirez deal its seems for the first time ever we were in the position financially to properly prepare ourselves for a PL season - and we f**king blew it.

 

Again as discussed before there are good reasons why things happen late on, especially with premier league transfers. I would be surprised if lack of planning was the main reason given the recruitment dept works all around the year. NA has gone on record as saying that the club looks at players not only for the current or forthcoming window but also future ones.

[mulletsaint]

Again as discussed before there are good reasons why things happen late on, especially with premier league transfers. I would be surprised if lack of planning was the main reason given the recruitment dept works all around the year. NA has gone on record as saying that the club looks at players not only for the current or forthcoming window but also future ones.

 

Now now Shurlock. It's easier to believe that Adkins stepped on the tail of Cortese's white Persian cat and as a result he decided to teach the naughty boy a lesson and not purchase any more of his defensive transfer targets.

[The Kraken]

For the same reason some are willing to slate the club at every turn. There are relentlessly positive idiots and relentlessly negative idiots. The reality is probably somewhere in between.

 

As you and Turkish say, something failed but who or what it was is unknown and any thoughts we put on here are merely guesses. It could be other clubs fault, NC's fault, someone else within the club, targets not wanting to come, not agreeing on any one of a multitude terms of a potential deal with either the player or the selling club, other clubs being unwilling to sell. Who knows? I'll happily debate it all day long but it would be nice of we could have a bit less of the histrionics.

 

I'm not sure who you're referrring to about histrionincs, if I'm honest. I can just see a few people pointing out that the club failed to fill the manager's stated objectives of players coming in to the club over the summer, and our struggles so far this season as a consequence. Yes, we can debate many things. Other things being debated are whether the manager will lose his job if we don't win our next home game, so I think it an entirely relevant subject.

[mulletsaint]

I'm not sure who you're referrring to about histrionincs, if I'm honest. I can just see a few people pointing out that the club failed to fill the manager's stated objectives of players coming in to the club over the summer, and our struggles so far this season as a consequence. Yes, we can debate many things. Other things being debated are whether the manager will lose his job if we don't win our next home game, so I think it an entirely relevant subject.

 

I don't disagree with what is relevant and was is not. On the subject of histrionics I'm not speaking about any one specific person or thread just the way in which some feel the need to be sensationalist in getting their points across. If you need me to go searching for specific posts then you are as blinkered as some others on here.

[alpine_saint]

I don't disagree with what is relevant and was is not. On the subject of histrionics I'm not speaking about any one specific person or thread just the way in which some feel the need to be sensationalist in getting their points across. If you need me to go searching for specific posts then you are as blinkered as some others on here.

 

I dont think anyone is being sensationalist. No one has said something like "Villa will hammer us 5-0 due to Davis, Fox and Fonte", for example..

 

I think the points expressing concern have been well made and focus very well on the situation.

[stevegrant]

I've just deleted a dozen posts which contribute precisely nothing to the debate. I have better things to be doing today than cleaning up after the pair of you so if you want to carry on the *****fest, please do so via PM so the rest of us don't have to read it.

[rudi-skacel]

I believe that although the pl is a hard league any of the teams in the bottom 15,would have found it hard if they had our start,things should turn around when we play the lesser teams starting on sat with villa.

[alpine_saint]

I believe that although the pl is a hard league any of the teams in the bottom 15,would have found it hard if they had our start,things should turn around when we play the lesser teams starting on sat with villa.

 

We will see. Anything is possible.

[david in sweden]

No, we have Aston Villa; how will you spin it if that goes tits-up ?

 

I'll tell you after Saturday ..... but if we've been saying is right ....it won't !

[hypochondriac]

He said on a couple of occasions we will bring in one or two centre halves and one maybe two goal keepers. I can't be arsed to find the quote, it suggests he was after two in each position as well as the fact we loaned Martin and Jaidi retired and Seaborne not the man for the job as well as the left back we were clearly trying to get. The committee clearly agreed awe were linked with loads of defenders and keepers yet only managed to sign one. So for whatever reason the positions the manager identified as strengthening haven't been adequately.

 

The mirror journalist said we didn't know who we wanted. Shambolic if true.

[The Majestic Channon]

If a manger identifies positions that need strengthening and it doesn't happen then whose responsibility is it then?

 

Who knows, the club? agents? other club?

you like the rest of us have no clue whatsoever about what goes on behind the scenes.

I'm sure nasty nicola is doing his best for us though

[stanthemanfairoak]

Cortese. Adkins identified defenders and a keeper he wanted, Cortese delivered strikers he and Reed wanted.

Our CEO was happy enough to take all the praise from our back to back promotions, now he has to take responsibility for not getting in the players Adkins needed.

might be some truth i what ya sayin!

[Mr X]

We basically are in a situation where we need a whole new defence with the exception of clyne (who I know has made mistakes) none of them are premiership level including the keeper! You simply have to ask questions as to why Adkins and the board deemed they could hold their own in the best league in the world. It's a catastrophic error and worse it's to late to repair it. Confidence is rock bottom as even the players no they aren't good enough to cope with the pace and precision of premiership strikers. Do we have the confidence now in our tank to believe we can get a result against villa we desperately need to steady the ship

[up and away]

We have no way of knowing in either case, so its pure speculation on both our parts. Just a personal opinion, but I don't think we filled the main priority positions that NA identified (I still find the signings of Mayuka and Rodriguez to be a little bizarre at this stage). You disagree, I respect that, I guess we'll never find out one way or the other.

 

I believe everyone to share this blame. Cortese slightly less than the others because he does not have the knowledge. Though it certainly appears he went that extra mile to get Ramirez (which is worthy of praise), less so Buttner

 

What is so evident know is that we needed far too many decent players to compete. The defensive back 5 all needed changing out and we still lacked the creation and pace against Wigan. I know we were looking in the right areas from the feedback from the other side, I just don't feel we believed them to be that much of a step up. Rodriques was one for the future that looks a distance away in the Premier. Mayuka is the pace we have been desperate for, so something not totally bizarre for the position when purchased.

 

The Premier has all come as a big shock to all at St Mary's but Adkins has to take the biggest blame. He has been struggling to get his best team on the pitch with the correct tactics. Something of a mission impossible given what's available previously. Adkins may have not been the prime mover for all the players but he was for Rodriques, the biggest disappointment so far. When he got all melancholy after winning promotion and hoped we would do things in the right way by giving players their chance rather than wholesale changes.

 

Adkins is a good manager who has made errors but not alone. As long as he keeps his head and works positively on the problems, that is all I ask. If Adkins is replaced in the future I hope it's done on the same basis for players, being better than what we already have. It's going to be difficult for his usual positive patter and it would not surprise me if he would not be better in letting the fluck hen out of the coop.

[Turkish]

I dont see how Cortese can be slightly less to blame than the others. Fans are happy to sing his name and tell everyone how ambitious he is so he is also responsible. It's been quite evident from Adkins and players comments Cortese is the man who sells the club and the vision to new players. We were bored sh*tless by the back slapping about challenging Man City when we failed to sign Buttner. Yes Adkins is responsible as well but a large percentage of the 14 goals we've conceded so have have come from individual errors from areas that he identified we need to strength and we didn't. I know this doesn't sit well with a lot of you but they are FACTs not negativity or speculation.

[Johnny Shearer]

I dont see how Cortese can be slightly less to blame than the others. Fans are happy to sing his name and tell everyone how ambitious he is so he is also responsible. It's been quite evident from Adkins and players comments Cortese is the man who sells the club and the vision to new players. We were bored sh*tless by the back slapping about challenging Man City when we failed to sign Buttner. Yes Adkins is responsible as well but a large percentage of the 14 goals we've conceded so have have come from individual errors from areas that he identified we need to strength and we didn't. I know this doesn't sit well with a lot of you but they are FACTs not negativity or speculation.

 

Sensible post and highlights the its not one person responisble but several.

 

If it is a proper committe like structure then people should acknowledge that they are accountable, review whats happened and plan or take corrective steps.

 

Whether that is to identify and actually buy new targets in January or for the coaching side, team and and manager to come up with a system/tactics that will stem the goals at the back. Of course this is not FM therefore not an easy thing to do in reality without it taking timeor some knock backs along the way.

 

Playing both Manchester clubs and Arsenal (along with the Wigan) has most likely highlighted this now rather than those same results being stretched out over the season.

[The Kraken]

I dont see how Cortese can be slightly less to blame than the others. Fans are happy to sing his name and tell everyone how ambitious he is so he is also responsible. It's been quite evident from Adkins and players comments Cortese is the man who sells the club and the vision to new players. We were bored sh*tless by the back slapping about challenging Man City when we failed to sign Buttner. Yes Adkins is responsible as well but a large percentage of the 14 goals we've conceded so have have come from individual errors from areas that he identified we need to strength and we didn't. I know this doesn't sit well with a lot of you but they are FACTs not negativity or speculation.

 

Spot on Turks. But don't take yours (or my) word for it; here's Les Reed to tell us how the land lies behind the scene:

 

I am a member of the Board; a Director of the club. We have a small Board and we are all executives so decisions are made quickly, it helps to get things done. Board members are responsible for Football (me) Finance and Operations and the Executive Chairman oversees it all so there are only four of us. I am responsible for what we call the Football Development and Support Centre. It is a concept rather than a facility. FDSC incorporates Coaching, Sports Medicine and Science, scouting and recruitment, kit and equipment and the Academy.

 

I work closely with the Manager and the Chairman on football matters and manage a staff of about 50 in those 5 departments or pillars. The Manager is able to focus on coaching the team and only the three first team coaches report directly to him. This brings the stability I mentioned earlier because very few staff are affected by a managerial change, the culture remains the same and the strategy stays on course. This was the vision of the Chairman and it is working. It is the hardest job I have done yet but I really enjoy it. Being a manager would be a piece of cake after this! We have a great staff and everyone is pulling together as one.

[Turkish]

Reid is responsible for recruitment and Cortese oversees it all then. Adkins clearly has little to do with signings, straight from the horses mouth.

[The Kraken]

Reid is responsible for recruitment and Cortese oversees it all then. Adkins clearly has little to do with signings, straight from the horses mouth.

 

Yep; Adkins coaches the team, Reed is responsible for scouting and recruitment, Cortese oversees that. As they say, FACT.