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Dibden Purlieu Saint

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Wow, now I get sh*t for other peoples threads.

 

FWIW, a few of us were saying stuff about our defence from when the Euros finished; no hindsight whatsoever.

You're absolutely right Alps, you were saying about it before the Euros finished, and you have been banging on about it time and time again ad nauseum. Its the wallowing in the "I told you so" attitiude that ****s everyone off and makes this Forum and ****ing depressing place to be. We lost today, anyone who has supported Saints for more than 4 years is used to it, it happens. We strengthened at the back (2 defenders and 2 keepers), should have got a LB but the guy ****ed us over when Manure came sniffing and should have replaced Davis. But we didn't. So we have to make the most of what we have. We do still have the opportunity to bring in 1 or 2 out of contract players and I wouldn't be surprised if we do, but lets keep a little bit of perspective shall we, and see how we are doing after a few more games. I heard some complete knobhead who called himself a Saints fan on Radio5 just now spouting some crap that Adkins was not good enough and we got promoted a season too soon. People need to get a grip.

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Cortese. Adkins identified defenders and a keeper he wanted, Cortese delivered strikers he and Reed wanted.

Our CEO was happy enough to take all the praise from our back to back promotions, now he has to take responsibility for not getting in the players Adkins needed.

 

Did he though ? It seems to me we were pretty slow in addressing the CB issue.Why leave it so bloody late ?

 

I hope Yoshida proves a success, but a tall order for him to fill the role we need in a struggling side in a foreign country.

 

The GK position has concerned me since we left L1 frankly. Not addressed last January when it should have been,as BB was a proven liability,so we were only an injury to KD away from a disaster. KD has never filled me with great confidence at NPC level so was always likely to struggle at Prem level. If we believe reports then Butland was our main target, but then ? We sign an inexperienced 21 yr old, is he ready for the first team if required ? We might find out sooner than we expect.

 

On Buttner:

 

Who knows what happened in that one, a very odd setup that transfer. Confident that it wasn't us who cocked that up.

 

Seemed a shambles that deal, but like you I feel the problem was elsewhere than with us,or Vittesse.

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Well it's not Adkins - h clearly identified the need to strengthen the defence at the start of this summer. It's whoever is actually responsible for identifying and/or signing players.

 

 

2 points.

 

- Either Adkins couldn't see that we needed defensive strengthening, which is a major worry,

 

or,

 

- He was too much of a puss-over in the transfer market by not forcing the hierarchy to buy more/better defensive players. (Also a major worry)

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A grow a pair. You spineless ballbag.

 

Why don't you come back when yours have dropped! Wow! Aren't I tough!

 

I paid well over £700 for season tickets for my nephew and me - which doesn't make me a hero - but too me it was quite a lot of money. Despite having a season ticket for the last 5 years I seriously thought about giving them up this season because of the cost. But I bought them knowing we had a good chance of getting relegated and because I know my nephew - he's only 9 - really wanted to see players like Van Persie and Aguero - and he had put up with League 1 and the Chmapionship so he kinda deserves it! Also it might be his only chance as his dads a Pompey fan!

 

But I expected us to at least make a go of it by buying players to give us a chance of competing. I have to admit I don't want us to sign Dann or Upson or any other failed premiership defender - but I was hoping we'd go out a take a chance on a couple of defenders from other top flight leagues. They might not have made the grade but iat least we'd have tried.

 

To bring in only one right back and one centre back to a defence that was crying out to be strengthened was just plain stupid - and probably a little bit incompetent.

 

I will survive if we get relegated - but dont kid yourself the defence we have right now would still struggle in the Championship. Don't forget it was the defence which lost us games against teams like Reading.

 

When - or if - we go down players like Ramirez and Lallana will be off - dontvworry about that.

 

As for defenders we could have signed - or at least tried to - Niklas Moisander, Douglas Franco Texeira, Andreu Fontas, Mateo Mussachio, Matt Kilgallon, Curtis Davies, not to mention Alexandef Buttner - to name but a few.

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Rebal.

So thT is it... You HVe decided we have no chance

 

At his nephew got to see RVP score a hatrick. Every cloud and all that.

 

Laughable that he thinks we havent had a go so far. Ask Ferguson or Mancini if they thought saints had a go against them or not

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Why don't you come back when yours have dropped! Wow! Aren't I tough!

 

I paid well over £700 for season tickets for my nephew and me - which doesn't make me a hero - but too me it was quite a lot of money. Despite having a season ticket for the last 5 years I seriously thought about giving them up this season because of the cost. But I bought them knowing we had a good chance of getting relegated and because I know my nephew - he's only 9 - really wanted to see players like Van Persie and Aguero - and he had put up with League 1 and the Chmapionship so he kinda deserves it! Also it might be his only chance as his dads a Pompey fan!

 

But I expected us to at least make a go of it by buying players to give us a chance of competing. I have to admit I don't want us to sign Dann or Upson or any other failed premiership defender - but I was hoping we'd go out a take a chance on a couple of defenders from other top flight leagues. They might not have made the grade but iat least we'd have tried.

 

To bring in only one right back and one centre back to a defence that was crying out to be strengthened was just plain stupid - and probably a little bit incompetent.

 

I will survive if we get relegated - but dont kid yourself the defence we have right now would still struggle in the Championship. Don't forget it was the defence which lost us games against teams like Reading.

 

When - or if - we go down players like Ramirez and Lallana will be off - dontvworry about that.

 

As for defenders we could have signed - or at least tried to - Niklas Moisander, Douglas Franco Texeira, Andreu Fontas, Mateo Mussachio, Matt Kilgallon, Curtis Davies, not to mention Alexandef Buttner - to name but a few.

 

totally off topic ...but I never understand people saying stuff like that three of the best seasons I can ever remember in my time as a saints fan (too young for the early 80s or the FA cup) loved every miniute of league one and the championship (well maybe not losing to Swindon)

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...for the way we did business during the transfer?

 

Who identifies the positions to strengthen?

Who identifies the players?

Who identifies the timeframe?

 

There needs to be an inquiry into this as clearly there are issues with steps in the process.

 

Its certainly not your job.

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Why don't you come back when yours have dropped! Wow! Aren't I tough!

 

I paid well over £700 for season tickets for my nephew and me - which doesn't make me a hero - but too me it was quite a lot of money. Despite having a season ticket for the last 5 years I seriously thought about giving them up this season because of the cost. But I bought them knowing we had a good chance of getting relegated and because I know my nephew - he's only 9 - really wanted to see players like Van Persie and Aguero - and he had put up with League 1 and the Chmapionship so he kinda deserves it! Also it might be his only chance as his dads a Pompey fan!

 

But I expected us to at least make a go of it by buying players to give us a chance of competing. I have to admit I don't want us to sign Dann or Upson or any other failed premiership defender - but I was hoping we'd go out a take a chance on a couple of defenders from other top flight leagues. They might not have made the grade but iat least we'd have tried.

 

To bring in only one right back and one centre back to a defence that was crying out to be strengthened was just plain stupid - and probably a little bit incompetent.

 

I will survive if we get relegated - but dont kid yourself the defence we have right now would still struggle in the Championship. Don't forget it was the defence which lost us games against teams like Reading.

 

When - or if - we go down players like Ramirez and Lallana will be off - dontvworry about that.

 

As for defenders we could have signed - or at least tried to - Niklas Moisander, Douglas Franco Texeira, Andreu Fontas, Mateo Mussachio, Matt Kilgallon, Curtis Davies, not to mention Alexandef Buttner - to name but a few.

 

Um, you mean the same defence that got us promoted first try and has now been strengthened?

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Let's not forget tha Adkins has let Hammond & Sharp go witjout so much as kicking a ball in a premier league game. Did we really need Mayuka when we had sharp? S. Davies looks no better than Hammond to me.

He's done a amazing job for saints but he's out of his depth. He's made some awful decisions & looks tactically naive at this level.

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Give it up, DPS. We had a perfect window and the club did all they could, apparently.

 

Alpine, you fail to see the bigger objective. To develop the club in the long term with young talent and most of all TO AVOID SHORT TERM FIXES AND DEBT LIKE THEM DOWN THE ROAd.

 

We are OK and have it covered.

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Slightly off topic, but how many points did people expect us to have after these 4 games considering who we have played? Yes we should have signed defenders and a keeper to challenge KD, but we haven't and that may be because NA and NC did not see players they felt would gel with the squad or with sufficient quality that were within our budget. Just because a player is available who you and I consider better than what we currently have does not mean we should have signed him, how many of us are actually football scouts and/or coaches?

 

Also just as a reply to the comment about Rodriguez being a waste of money when Berbatov was sold for half the price, try taking age into consideration, and also the likelihood of Berbatov wanting to join a newly promoted team....

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3 points.

 

On what basis? Wigan have been a steady premier league team for a few years now, yes I believe we can beat them, and certainly feel we should have had at least a point, but it wasn't a banker. I doubt many Saints fans expected us to have 3 points from the game, more like hoped I would think

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On what basis? Wigan have been a steady premier league team for a few years now, yes I believe we can beat them, and certainly feel we should have had at least a point, but it wasn't a banker. I doubt many Saints fans expected us to have 3 points from the game, more like hoped I would think

 

Sorry disagree. You have to expect to beat the likes of Wigan at home.

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Sorry disagree. You have to expect to beat the likes of Wigan at home.

 

Expect? I think you are setting very high standards here, hope yes, but to say we can bank on a win against any team in this division is a bit short sighted IMHO, at least until we have stayed up for a couple of seasons anyway. Plus even the best teams lose to teams like Wigan every now and then....

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Expect? I think you are setting very high standards here, hope yes, but to say we can bank on a win against any team in this division is a bit short sighted IMHO, at least until we have stayed up for a couple of seasons anyway. Plus even the best teams lose to teams like Wigan every now and then....

 

Not setting high standards at all. It's realistic to expect to beat Wigan at home or we will not "have stayed up for a couple of seasons" as you put it.

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Who is responsible for the fixture list ?

 

At the moment that seems a more appropriate question than anything else !

Let's calm down and see how things pan out, eh ?

With the start that we were faced with, there was always going to be a 'moanfest' from the perennial 'bedwetters' and sure as hell, out they came !

After two consecutive promotions and a couple of encouraging performances against the top sides, I (for one!) am more than willing to give both the team and management a chance to settle and am happy to support whatever they do in an extremely difficult league !

COYS

 

this exactly. let's chill the **** out and enjoy the ride

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Just defending myself against someone saying this is hindsight. No need to be so hostile is there?

 

Mate, you're wasting your time. My view was the same as yours and when I voiced that opinion I got a right slagging from certain people on here. Funny as 10 days later they're saying exactly what I said which was that we've addressed the wrong areas of the team.

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Blaming the fixture list for our poor standing after 4 games... :lol:

 

Wonder what excuse we'll hear after the Villa and Everton games...

 

Not sure what we will hear after the Villa and Everton games but should we lose,

we know what you will be posting don`t we?...and it will be over and over and over again on

thread after thread after thread...

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Well it's not Adkins - h clearly identified the need to strengthen the defence at the start of this summer. It's whoever is actually responsible for identifying and/or signing players.

 

I have a feeling we got promoted from the Championship a season too soon - our scouting system was not ready to identify the players we needed for th Premiership.

 

Forget about signing Gaston Ramirez - it was pointless spending £20 million on the forward line when we only spent £5 million if that on the defence.

 

 

These are the bits of your post I agree with ...although I don't think Ramirez is going to be called a waste of money.....rather the opposite.

However, I do think a lot of extra attention was paid to the process of signing him...... in preference to signing more defenders.

 

Since Prem. Day 1..I have read that star talent Luke Shaw was ill / injured ?.......we know that Danny Fox was injured......and didn't look 100% yesterday either...and that of our only two experienced CBs

Jos Hooiveld (IMO the better of the two) is now injured. Thank goodness that at least we signed Yoshida.

 

I 'm not looking to sack anyone now .or in the immediate future, (this is Adkins team - and IMO only he can make it work). Even Jose Mourinho wouldn't be able to do better with our present squad.

 

Whoever takes the responsibility for failing to sign extra defenders.... now already realises their error.

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Give it up, DPS. We had a perfect window and the club did all they could, apparently.

 

Wow, now I get sh*t for other peoples threads.

 

FWIW, a few of us were saying stuff about our defence from when the Euros finished; no hindsight whatsoever.

 

Right. First quote - we had a perfect window? Really? The club did all they could - how do you know if this or this was not the case?

 

And yes, I am going to give you sh*t for other peoples thread as you had not actually replied to OP's message. You have just banged on about the defence as you have done in several other threads.

 

You are not alone in thinking that the defence needed to be looked at or improved but other people don't make out its a them versus the world issue that you do.

 

Also if our defence was fine but the strikers weren't scoring you'd be moaning about that instead.

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Our scouting network should surely have had the Premiership in mind from possibly last October, Christmas at the latest, to prepare. Unless of course the network itself is not up to standard ?

 

I too have considered did we come up a year too early, and can't totally agree as failure to do so would probably have seen Lambert,Lallana, Schneiderlin moving on last summer.

 

Agree with David's conclusion that failure to strengthen defence- and more crucially- GK, has cost us and will continue to do so.

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So we've lost one match some people expected us to win and lost three everybody expected to lose. Is that what all the gnashing of teeth is about?

For me, the number of points won at this stage is irrelevant, everyone knew that in all likelihood we'd have 0-3 points from the first 4 games. What is relevant, however, is the performances in those games.

 

We've only played well in one of the three games, and still managed to toss that game away in the last 5 minutes because of our woeful defence. Man City could have had 5 or 6 without breaking sweat, a feat Arsenal - a team supposedly struggling up front - managed quite comfortably.

 

While there's absolutely no problem in reinforcing a strong attack, to do so without serious addressing a defence that got away with a hell of a lot last season is almost negligent. We had a deal for Buttner which fell through for whatever reason, but we were clearly chasing a new left-back, and after that deal hit a dead end it appears as though we had no Plan B for that position. We were willing to chuck £6m Birmingham's way for Jack Butland but then when they rejected the offer we gave up signing another first-team keeper. For all of Davis' many faults, would any of us chuck Gazzaniga or Cropper into a Premier League game ahead of him?

 

Yoshida seems a decent signing at centre-back, but having let Aaron Martin go on loan for the season (the right decision, IMO), that signing merely takes us back to where we were at the end of last season, with 3 first-team centre-backs - I'm not convinced Dan Seaborne would be in contention at any stage if everyone was fit, and Hooiveld's injury he picked up yesterday leaves us with no backup. Meanwhile we have as many strikers and attacking midfielders to fill 5 teams.

 

In terms of who's responsible for our lop-sided squad, there is a committee of sorts, comprising of Adkins, Cortese and Reed, with input from our scouting network. Some of our signings are fairly clear as to their origin - Ramirez, for example, is clearly a Cortese signing, his two-week "holiday" coincided with the negotiations for that deal and all the comments from both the player and Adkins have said as much - but I would certainly hope that Adkins, as the man who's going to be working with these players every day in training, has a significant input, whether that's a casting vote, power of veto or whatever.

 

I can't say I'm overly keen on someone with only three years' involvement in football (and none at the highest level) unilaterally making signings. It was deemed unacceptable when a certain ex-chairman was alleged to have done so, I see no reason why it's OK now all of a sudden.

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...for the way we did business during the transfer?

 

Who identifies the positions to strengthen?

Who identifies the players?

Who identifies the timeframe?

 

There needs to be an inquiry into this as clearly there are issues with steps in the process.

 

 

Have you not heard, "we do things privately here, behind closed doors" as Adkins has parroted once or twice. Thing is, if we have a committee system, then who ultimately has overall say on sporting matters and squad selection? The Chairman? The head of football support and development? The Company Director? The forlorn football director (if not the same person)? The first team coach/Adkins? Wouldn't be the first time someone with money feels their business knowledge and own narcissistic-projection deems them worthy enough to start meddling with football matters and influences player selection...not that I am suggesting this.

 

If someone else picks the line-up, then that person should be the one answerable unless they have no faith in the manager which begs the next question, then why are they in charge?

 

Not stirring up anything but valid points worth considering.

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...for the way we did business during the transfer?

 

Who identifies the positions to strengthen?

Who identifies the players?

Who identifies the timeframe?

 

There needs to be an inquiry into this as clearly there are issues with steps in the process.

 

 

Million dollar question this and also minefield territory - I say this without reading ANY replies

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Only the 'signings committee' knows who we went for. We may have bid for LB's-CB's-keepers but perhaps, just perhaps, the did not want to sign for a newly promoted club that was being quoted as odds on to go back down?

 

As for GM's post, it seems to me that Gordon is implying that NA is being 'advised' by someone else what team to play. Sorry, I can't see NA having any of that carp.

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Only the 'signings committee' knows who we went for. We may have bid for LB's-CB's-keepers but perhaps, just perhaps, the did not want to sign for a newly promoted club that was being quoted as odds on to go back down?

 

Buttner didn't seem to have any problems in wanting to sign for us, before we backed out and Man United came in for him. We spent about £30M this window, I'm not sure I can say attracting players was our problem.

 

As for GM's post, it seems to me that Gordon is implying that NA is being 'advised' by someone else what team to play. Sorry, I can't see NA having any of that carp.

 

No idea on the playing side, but its fairly obvious from Adkins' quotes that the signing of Ramirez in particular was not directly his choice, but made by the transfer committee. Adkins knew hardly anything about him in the early stages.

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We need to get them employed by the club. Alpine, DPS, Dock-p.

 

We'd be Barcelona before we knew it. All our failings would be fixed within an hour. As, of course, it's all so easy to do.

 

We've already out spent Barcelona, according to yesterday's Guardian

 

"The club finished with a net outlay of around £33m during the last transfer window, making them the seventh biggest spenders in Europe, outdoing the likes of Juventus, Barcelona, Internazionale and Real Madrid."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/sep/14/southampton-youth-policy-nigel-adkins?INTCMP=SRCH

 

But not all the signings have really trained together with the rest of the team, let alone played a full 90 minutes.

 

When I saw the fixture list, I thought we would be lucky not to be bottom at Xmas, I just hoped we would not be too far adrift. I think once the new players start to train and develop an understnding with the rest of the team and get a few games under their belts our season will start to improve.

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I would be worried if the final decision on signings was not the manager's. Would be a disaster waiting to happen if Cortese or Reeds was making the decisions IMO.

 

Agreed, but that's what I think we have. I'm sure NA is involved, in suggesting the positions he needs and the type of player, then the committee does the rest. Quite how much influence NA has is IMO debatable. As I said he clearly knew very little about Ramirez, I assume the same for Mayuka too. And he stated that he wanted to bring in 1 or 2 keepers, 1 or 2 CBs, and a left back yet only got 2 of those 5; one a reserve keeper and one right at the end of the transfer window. I'm not sure if our signings matched the priorities of the manager.

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Adkins is part of the transfer commitee and views the same scouting reports and videos of each player the committee has targeted. It's a nonsense to suggest that X player is a Cortese signing or an Adkins signing otherwise it's pointless having a committee in the first place. It's a typical modern day set up.

 

Sorry Kracken, regarding your comment above re Adkins knowing little about Ramirez, his quotes about him have always been consistent to me....quality young player who can add to the squad....ive seen nothing from him to suggest he didnt k iw enough about him or wouldnt want him

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Sorry Kracken, regarding your comment above re Adkins knowing little about Ramirez, his quotes about him have always been consistent to me....quality young player who can add to the squad....ive seen nothing from him to suggest he didnt k iw enough about him or wouldnt want him

 

It was reported on BBC right at the start of the transfer saga; I've just looked again but they don't seem to archive that far back. Adkins comments on it were very clear that he didn't know too much about the impending transfer. Its not something I made up, in fact I think I commented on it on here at the time (but I'm buggered if I'm trawling back through that thread to find it! I'm not saying Adkins didn't want him; just it very much didn't sound like NA had highlighted him in particular as a target.

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It was reported on BBC right at the start of the transfer saga; I've just looked again but they don't seem to archive that far back. Adkins comments on it were very clear that he didn't know too much about the impending transfer. Its not something I made up, in fact I think I commented on it on here at the time (but I'm buggered if I'm trawling back through that thread to find it! I'm not saying Adkins didn't want him; just it very much didn't sound like NA had highlighted him in particular as a target.

 

I'm not going to go looking either but Adkins is always pretty coy on transfers when asked by the press so difficult to judge the situation by what Adkins says to the press.

 

I think the club did try hard to bring in more defensive signings, there was the "quality" CB (which was in addition to Yoshida) which we were looking to sign near the close of the season. For whatever reason, it didnt come off but I dont think Adkins wishes were overlooked. Why would there be such mis-alignment between what Adkins wants and what "the others" want? Wouldn't make much sense and can't see any manager standing for it.

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I'm not going to go looking either but Adkins is always pretty coy on transfers when asked by the press so difficult to judge the situation by what Adkins says to the press.

 

I think the club did try hard to bring in more defensive signings, there was the "quality" CB (which was in addition to Yoshida) which we were looking to sign near the close of the season. For whatever reason, it didnt come off but I dont think Adkins wishes were overlooked. Why would there be such mis-alignment between what Adkins wants and what "the others" want? Wouldn't make much sense and can't see any manager standing for it.

 

We have no way of knowing in either case, so its pure speculation on both our parts. Just a personal opinion, but I don't think we filled the main priority positions that NA identified (I still find the signings of Mayuka and Rodriguez to be a little bizarre at this stage). You disagree, I respect that, I guess we'll never find out one way or the other.

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