david in sweden Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 (edited) Before deciding that it was a good game NOT to become involved in, I asked myself if Roy Hodgson had even dared to consider picking Adam in front of Tom Cleverly in the fiasco game v. Ukraine. Reading BBC Sportswriter Phil Mc Nulty, who seemed to be asking himself if Cleverly ....who he said " had hardly got his feet under the table at Man.Utd and was being played out of position"....was really the most suitable choice?. .and the fact that he missed the three best chances in the game .why was he selected in front of others?. ...I wondered the same and looked at their playing records to date. Both players are about the same age; Adam 24 , Cleverly 23. ... Adam has already played a remarkable 168 league games scoring 36 goals, although everyone will say they were in a lower league. TRUE Cleverly though, aside from his 13 Prem. apps for MU ....has only accumulated 86 matches whilst on loan to a number of lower league sides.....and managed only 17 goals...also TRUE. I'm not going to pretend that Adam might have scored a hat-trick on his debut, but I'm sure he would have done better with some of the chances that Cleverly squandered so easily. The answer might well be that a player coming through the MU Academy. and gets the nod from Stuart Pearce...gets an automatic step-up to the England squad, whilst even out-performing Cleverly ...by 100% ......Adam will have to fight much harder to attain the same honours. Hopefully SFC may, at last, get a bit more attention from an England manager and Adam get some proper recognition. Edited 14 September, 2012 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronCitySaint Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Question: Why play Cleverly ahead of Adam? Answer: Because he 'plays' for Man. Utd. Maybe too simplistic an answer but if Adam played for Mau. Utd and Cleverly for Saints who do you think would have been picked to start? I've always thought it odd that lesser players for bigger teams get the nod ahead of others. The reason usually given is that they are playing at the highest level and playing with better players makes them better. But, if you are at the best team in the country then surely you spend most of your time playing against worse players whilst those at 'lesser' teams spend all their time playing against better players and therefore should have an advantage. Oh, well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEVMAN Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Unfortunately Cleverly has alot more premiership playing hours than Adam and in football this does count quite abit,you just have to keep building your CV up till you have to be picked or are noticed by the bull****ters that run the National side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Anyone over 30 will tell you the answer just look who he playes for. Le Tiss at Spuds 80 caps at Saints a hand full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Why pick the player with 38 Premier League appearances, a third of which for the club who have won 4 of the last 6 league titles, over the player with 3 Premier League appearances for a newly-promoted team? No idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasper57saint Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Cleverly wasn't very 'clever' against us recently. Nathan Steve D and Punch really had his measure. Yes we all know what Adam is capable of but I think Iron City Saints answer will suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Lallana is he better player but Cleverley gets picked because he plays for Man Utd (so he must be great) simples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Exactly why Heskey is better than Lambert. Great comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Lallana is he better player but Cleverley gets picked because he plays for Man Utd (so he must be great) simples! Why do you say Lallana is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Exactly why Heskey is better than Lambert. He probably was many years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rshephard3 Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Why pick the player with 38 Premier League appearances, a third of which for the club who have won 4 of the last 6 league titles, over the player with 3 Premier League appearances for a newly-promoted team? No idea. This. IMO Cleverley is showing signs of being a fantastic player for England and Man Utd for a long time to come. This thread is a little harsh on him to say the least. Lallana is good at football, Cleverley is better. Why does Adam Lallana play for Southampton? Because he's not good enough to have been offered the chance to play for Man Utd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 This. IMO Cleverley is showing signs of being a fantastic player for England and Man Utd for a long time to come. This thread is a little harsh on him to say the least. Lallana is good at football, Cleverley is better. Why does Adam Lallana play for Southampton? Because he's not good enough to have been offered the chance to play for Man Utd. Some people will struggle to understand this. The Ones who are saying Lallana is better after watching him for 3 season in L1 and the championship and see Cleverly against us and playing for England Tuesday night, most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colbury Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Makes me laugh those saying Lallana would have buried Cleverlys chances.. Adam, for all his qualities, is not a natural finisher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Makes me laugh those saying Lallana would have buried Cleverlys chances.. Adam, for all his qualities, is not a natural finisher. Lallana would have finished Cleverlys chance Tuesday, although so would have Heskey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing now Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Lol, course he was. Sums up England that Heskey gets 50+ caps and MLT gets 8. Effort and running about beats skill and technique. Darius Vassell got 22 caps; so not sure about even effort and running about being the criteria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Lallana is the better player and if the reason that Notso Cleverley gets picked to play for England before him is because he has more experience of playing in the Premiership, then that will soon be re-addressed. When Adam has put in a decent shift, it will quickly be established that he is the better player of the two of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Lallana would have finished Cleverlys chance Tuesday, although so would have Heskey. I take it you missed his sliced side foot against Man U last weekend then? As easy as cleverly chances, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 I take it you missed his sliced side foot against Man U last weekend then? As easy as cleverly chances, no? Why do you have to ruin my post Turkish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 What a surprise, they're positive so they're wrong. There's absolutely nothing wrong with thinking one is better than the other, people just get frustrated (and not just saints) that it proves to easy to get a call up when you're with a big club. Some players are good enough, some aren't, but personally I'd like to see them play more games first. Lallana may not have premier league experience but he has played a lot of football. An England team full of big club reserves is no good thing. You are not comparing apples with apples. Lallana has been good against championship and L1 players. Cleverely has looked not so good at premier league and international level, although he had played well in games other than than the two most of the clowns on here are basing their view on. Do you not think that Cleverly would be a top player in th championship if he joined Cardiff or aforest tomrrow? You don't play for Man United if you are a bad player, they've been the best club in England for the last 20 years for a reason. Remember how everyone banged on about James Beattie should be an England regular yet looked woefully out of his depth against LItchenstein!! When Lallana has proven himself over a season or so then you might have a case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Why do you have to ruin my post Turkish. Because I don't watch games with Saints tinted specs on thinking everyone and everything is amazing. For all Lallanas qualities and there are many, and can I go on record as saying he, along with sir Rickie are my favourite Saints player since MLT, finishing is not one of them. And all this talk about he is better than xxxx is nonsense until he's played at the same level for a decent period of time and you can compare them like for like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Shearer Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 You don't play for Man United if you are a bad player. Cough*Bebe*cough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 Cough*Bebe*cough Dmeba Dmeba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 14 September, 2012 Share Posted 14 September, 2012 What about that statue that plays out on the right for England - the one that never effects a game has no pace, can't go by any one and can't even shoot.....You know who I'm talking about........Can anyone tell me why he gets picked over the Totton right winger who is actually a better player than Milner........... This is the absolute waste of space which means England do not create - he was totally useless in the Euros and is still is - what is that all about????? AL is twice the the player...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 15 September, 2012 Share Posted 15 September, 2012 Its wider than this - Welbeck Cleverley and Carrick were poor against us with Cleverley less so but all three turned out for England. They were all poor again against League 1 Moldova and yet appeared again against the Ukraine. Cleverley was dreadful again and and will never make a striker as his woeful finishing showed. Its all to do with who you play for still but he will return to their U21 side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 15 September, 2012 Share Posted 15 September, 2012 The thing is when Adam moves to one of the big PL sides at the end of the season he will soon get into the England set up on a regular basis......... As for Cleverly maybe he has lots of great games playing for Man U I can only go on some MOTD highlights, an England game and the team GB games I've seen him play in none of which he looked overly impressive in. As a saints fan I'm always going to think Adam is better:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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