9/11

[alpine_saint]

11th anniversary today. Nearly forgot, how stupid of me.

 

I still remember sitting in the lab at work, doing measurements, when a colleague rushed over and told me after the first tower was hit. I thought he was insane. We watched the second tower get hit live.

 

I still have trouble with fully understanding the reality of what happened that day, it seems like a movie plot. And I wonder if any of us realised what impact that day would have on the world and our lives; arguably, its way the biggest game-changer since the Germans invaded Poland.

 

For the 2977 innocent lost, and espeically the 1,122 still formally unidentified, 68 Brits and the 8 children on American Flight 77 and United Flight 175, I wish you all RIP.

 

For the 19 I hope you are all rotting in hell.

[Bearsy]

There was a thing on tv last night bout these dudes what was in one of the tower things and they was still sitting at their desks working after the first plane hit. Nuts to that! I'd of been literally the first one out the door, I'd of been elbowing old ladies out the way and trampling small childrens underfoot!

[tpbury]

My kids were wondering why there wasn't a minute's silence on the 9th - reasonable considering date formats. They have been made very aware at school of this atrocity and it was horrific to watch (Iwas off sick in the UK at the time and remember seeing everything happen). Well, it has already turned into many movies. It was a very significant event, but I said to my son that as many people die in e.g. Somalia on a regular basis, didn't have the figures to hand, but wanted to let him know that s**** happens in this world.

[Sheaf Saint]

its way the biggest game-changer since the Germans invaded Poland.

 

Really???...

 

 

I still remember the day vividly. I was working on site in Acton doing some cabling when we heard the first reports on the radio of a plane hitting the WTC. At first I assumed they meant a light aircraft and I even joked to my workmate that the pilot must have been blind if he didn't see one of the tallest buildings on Earth. Then the whole story started to emerge and we all gathered round a TV in the MD's office and watched in a state of utter bewilderment as the second tower was struck.

 

I'm still far from convinced about the official story behind it though. There are so many holes in it, like the lengthy phone calls apparently made by the passengers on flight 93 despite the FBI's own assertion that the cellular technology of the time making it all but impossible to even connect a call from that altitude, and the super-human flying skills required to make the plane hit the Pentagon in the way that it did. What's obvious from even the slightest bit of research is that the 911 Commission Report was nothing but a whitewash to cover something up. You only have to read a little about the background of Philip Zelikow, the man that GWB hand-picked to lead the 'investigation' to appreciate that. What were they trying to hide? Complicity? Utter incompetence in failure to prevent the attacks? Who knows? (Well Dubya and his mates do, obviously)

[alpine_saint]

Yes, and Area 51 was the setting for the Moon landings....

 

I knew someone would nit-pick about my "game-changer" comment. Some people are anally-retentive enough to do so.

 

Nuclear weapons would never have been developed if WW2 hadnt happened.

[ericofarabia]

I was packing my suitcase to fly back to Dubai whilst watching the story unfold.

 

The 12th was probably the safest day ever to fly judging by the amount of security checks I went through, but it was a very unnerving quiet atmosphere at the airport and on board.

[buctootim]

Was working in Pennsylvania a couple of years ago and whilst on a walk by chance ended up in the field where Flight 93 crashed. Seemed so incongrous that such a violent world changing act act happened in such a nondescript place.

Edited 11 September, 2012 by buctootim

[Thedelldays]

Was in the dockyard... A couple of weeks later I was in the Indian ocean

[Crazy Diamond]

I was 12 at the time, it's the first event that stopped the news in its tracks which fascinated me. Prior to it, other than Diana dying I can't remember an event that took up every single minute of every single channel (well, the ones we had, BBC One and Two, ITV, CH4 and a very scrambled Five) for so long.

[washsaint]

I have worked with people who lost friends and colleagues in the Pentagon on that day. I would really like to see conspiracy theorists say to them they don't believe the events of that day. It was sheer luck (if it can be called that) that the plane crashed into a part of the Pentagon that was being renovated so there were fewer people than normal in that particular area.

 

Bexy - re. the cell phones.......people were making calls from the pay per use phones on the planes.

 

If you ever get the chance to visit the 9/11 memorial in NYC it is very, very moving......and clearly highlights that people from most/all nations were impacted by these murderous thugs (including Muslims).

[Lazlo78]

If you ever get the chance to visit the 9/11 memorial in NYC it is very, very moving......and clearly highlights that people from most/all nations were impacted by these murderous thugs (including Muslims).

 

Seems like it's quite heavy on security: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2012/09/sept_11_memorial_does_the_world_trade_center_site_really_need_so_much_security_.2.html

[bowers-sfc]

I was in florida when it happen. all getting ready to go to sea world.even though we were hundreds of miles away, it was still scary! remember being evacuated from sea world that afternoon due to it being a high risk destination or something.

didnt help we had some mad american telling us london was being bombed.

[emerson massey]

I have worked with people who lost friends and colleagues in the Pentagon on that day. I would really like to see conspiracy theorists say to them they don't believe the events of that day. It was sheer luck (if it can be called that) that the plane crashed into a part of the Pentagon that was being renovated so there were fewer people than normal in that particular area.

 

Bexy - re. the cell phones.......people were making calls from the pay per use phones on the planes.

 

If you ever get the chance to visit the 9/11 memorial in NYC it is very, very moving......and clearly highlights that people from most/all nations were impacted by these murderous thugs (including Muslims).

 

Agreed it is very moving indeed, especially when the names reads "and her unborn child" - cut me to absolute pieces.

[The Cat]

I was at the Withdean as any Saints fan should have been. Didn't really know what had happened until I got back in the car. My mates were in the pub all afternoon, I went record shopping in Brighton so was unaware of the magnitude of it all until after the game.

[Thedelldays]

I was at the Withdean as any Saints fan should have been. Didn't really know what had happened until I got back in the car. My mates were in the pub all afternoon, I went record shopping in Brighton so was unaware of the magnitude of it all until after the game.

at the with dean....?

it happened when..? mid afternoon..?...in the week...?

[Colinjb]

Arrived home from 6th Form, flick on television, see footage of an aircraft striking a tower rather then 15 to 1.

 

"Mum, I think you better turn on the tele........"

 

Went to Woking v Margate that night with Dad, never knew such a flat atmosphere at a game.

Edited 11 September, 2012 by Colinjb

[Colinjb]

at the with dean....?

 

League cup, 3-0 away win.

[Thedelldays]

League cup, 3-0 away win.

yeah..but why would you be at the with dean when it happened..?

 

unless he means...afterwards, that night..?

[Colinjb]

yeah..but why would you be at the with dean when it happened..?

 

unless he means...afterwards, that night..?

 

Presumably they got there early to begin drinking. (I doubt they were at the Withdean that early, simply Brighton.)

[Thedelldays]

Presumably they got there early to begin drinking. (I doubt they were at the Withdean that early, simply Brighton.)

ah ok....just it happened mid afternoon in the week.......

 

anyway..comes round quick

[saintbletch]

I remember it vividly. I watched it unfold live on Sky. It was horrific and I thought at the time that it would change everything. I think it did.

 

My son who was about 7 at the time was watching it, presumably thinking that it was a film. He asked what was happening and I told him that some evil people had flown the planes into the towers on purpose.

 

He thought about it for a while and then as if he'd found a mistake in what I'd told him, he said "But they wouldn't do that, because then they'd die too".

 

The innocence of youth.

[derry]

The night before, I was piloting an aircraft from Orlando to Gatwick and flew right over New York. It was a wonderfully clear night and at 33,000ft I spent about five minutes marvelling at the beautiful view and picked out all the main features, Statue of Liberty, Empire State and the two towers. Little did I know that about 8 hours later all would change.

 

I was driving home and rang my wife just before the 275 junction and she told me about an aircraft hitting one of the towers I immediately thought a light aircraft. When I got home the tv was on and it was a B757 that had impacted and the picture was live. The next thing a B767 came in and hit the other tower. I watched the story unfold, the Pentagon, the Pennsylvania crash and the towers collapsing, absolutely riveting and unforgettable. A week later I was flying South past Washington and could clearly see the damage to the Pentagon.

 

For anyone interested, I tried many times to connect a mobile phone whilst airborne but never succeeded.

[dellboypete]

I was packing my suitcase to fly back to Dubai whilst watching the story unfold.

 

The 12th was probably the safest day ever to fly judging by the amount of security checks I went through, but it was a very unnerving quiet atmosphere at the airport and on board.

 

Hi Eric

 

Packing your bags again??

 

Was living in Sharjah at the time and the two eldest kids were on a flight from LHR to DXB when all hell let loose.

 

Picked them up from dxb late that night - half the (not very large) Dubai army was at the airport

[pap]

Was living in Milton Road at the time. Saints' last season at the Dell, iirc. Mate called me while I was cycling from Swaythling back to my place. Put the telly on and watched Sky News for the next 11 hours. Slowly but surely members of the shared house came in one by one, each transfixed by what was happening in New York. The one phrase I heard more than anything else that day is that "it's like something from a film". It really was.

 

No one knew what would happen next either. The circumstances were unprecedented. The US had been attacked before; but in Pearl Harbor, the closest comparable atrocity, the US was attacked by an easily identifiable nation state nemesis. Contrast that with the rather nebulous Al Qaeda, seemingly impossible to track down. How do you attack them exactly?

 

Some people, who I disagreed with at the time, insisted that the US would just go on a rampage across the Middle East. I think I'd probably agree with them now. That's pretty much what happened. The right thing to have done would have been to haul Bin Laden and co up in The Hague on trial as war criminals. Failing that, the option the US eventually took - surgical strike on the perpetrators, would have been better than what actually happened. Namely, invading two countries, one illegally and under cover of British deception - killing over a million, and all supposedly to get their hands on 19 guys and some imaginary weapons.

 

Our response was akin to using petrol to douse a fire. After 11 years, we've created more extremists than ever existed in the first place and introduced some massively dodgy legislation. I have no idea if anyone noticed, but we've got an Enabling Act lying dormant in the form of an Act of Parliament. For those who can't be arsed to click the link, we introduced a bill in Parliament in 2006 which allows the law to be changed at whim. It has restrictions, but oddly enough, none that apply to self-modification. So while you can't currently create new law with a custodial sentence of more than 2 years, you can use the Act to change the law, then do it anyway. That seems like a massively dangerous bit of legislation to have on the books if you're a fan of democracy and a police state hater.

 

9/11 was the crime of the century, and my sympathies go out to those that lost their lives and the loved ones they left behind. Some of the images from that day, particularly of those survivors looking through the husks of windows, still haunt me to this day.

 

The ripple effect it created is far larger, and permeates every part of society. It's a lot of things; security at airports, distrust of strangers, racism re-entering the mainstream through the "they're extremists, innit?" backdoor, invading countries on a whim, prominent scientists who strenuously disagree with the Government's view on weapons in Iraq suddenly deciding to commit suicide. Mostly though, it was about the re-emergence of fear as the prime political tool. Bush famously said that terrorists wouldn't change the way we live. I suppose he is technically correct; the real attack on our democratic rights was conducted by our own politicians.

 

I'd much rather we followed the advice of one of the greatest Americans, Benjamin Franklin.

 

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

 

 

[aintforever]

I remember it like it was yesterday, everyone just stopped working and sat there listening to the radio is shock. The thing I remember most clearly as it unfolded was disturbing feeling of not knowing what was going to happen next, it seemed like the World had gone crazy as more reports came in from the Pentagon etc.

 

Most of the conspiracy theories like Loose Change are obviously complete nonsense (robots flying planes, missiles shooting into the Pentagon etc). My opinion is that the American government probably just covered up their own mistakes or maybe knew that Bin Laden was planning something and thought they had more to gain by just letting him do it, not knowing it would be anywhere near that serious.

[ericofarabia]

Hi Eric

 

Packing your bags again??

 

Was living in Sharjah at the time and the two eldest kids were on a flight from LHR to DXB when all hell let loose.

 

Picked them up from dxb late that night - half the (not very large) Dubai army was at the airport

 

Enjoying the delights of a huge rain shower on the hour every hour in Leigh after a few sunny days in Costa del Southampton. Cant make any games this time - maybe Wigan away (or home for me!!) in Jan.

[Horley CTFC Saint]

11th anniversary today. Nearly forgot, how stupid of me.

 

I still remember sitting in the lab at work, doing measurements, when a colleague rushed over and told me after the first tower was hit. I thought he was insane. We watched the second tower get hit live.

 

I still have trouble with fully understanding the reality of what happened that day, it seems like a movie plot. And I wonder if any of us realised what impact that day would have on the world and our lives; arguably, its way the biggest game-changer since the Germans invaded Poland.

 

For the 2977 innocent lost, and espeically the 1,122 still formally unidentified, 68 Brits and the 8 children on American Flight 77 and United Flight 175, I wish you all RIP.

 

For the 19 I hope you are all rotting in hell.

 

We had offices in the twin towers so difficult to forget and we should also not forget the hundreds of thousands of largely innocent Afghanis, Iraqis and military personnel from various countries who've lost their lives as a direct result of GWB's somewhat uninspired response

[PhilippineSaint]

I was 12 at the time, it's the first event that stopped the news in its tracks which fascinated me. Prior to it, other than Diana dying I can't remember an event that took up every single minute of every single channel (well, the ones we had, BBC One and Two, ITV, CH4 and a very scrambled Five) for so long.

 

First one must have been when the SAS went into the libyan or iranian embassy cant remember which

[Pugwash]

Remember it well. It was our 25th Wedding Anniversary and we had planned to be there. Thankfully, we changed it to revisit the far east instead. Time zones meant we didn't find out about it till the next day. With a memory-jogger like that, I'll never forget another anniversary as long as I live.

[The Cat]

Presumably they got there early to begin drinking. (I doubt they were at the Withdean that early, simply Brighton.)

 

That. My mates were in the pub outside the ground which didn't have a tv on and I caught the park & ride into the city centre and went record shopping. We heard a few bits but had no real idea what was going on until putting the radio on in the car after the match.

[John Boy Saint]

Stood in Hastings taking an order with a customer in her shop, she got a phone call. When she finished the call she said that was my son he just said that someone had flown a plane into the Twin Towers. We both thought that it was a light aircraft, listening to the radio in the car was a bit surreal seeing the pictures on TV when I got home was even more so.

Especially the people jumping from the upper windows........................ Still begs the question why?

[Suomi Saint]

It was a very sad event, sure, but the motor car and cigarettes kill far more people every single day. The Russians lost 20M in the War, so I think people need to put this event into perspective. How many innocent people died when the Yanks illegally invaded Iraq? How many innocent people in the Third World die of disease and hunger to support World Order and our cosy little lives in the West? Do we have memorials for them? Personally, I am fed up with this continual 9/11 business. I feel sorry for the people who died, yes, but I do not feel sorry for the people who are alive and who are feeling sorry for themselves. It's the dead person who gets the bum deal.

[alpine_saint]

It was a very sad event, sure, but the motor car and cigarettes kill far more people every single day. The Russians lost 20M in the War, so I think people need to put this event into perspective. How many innocent people died when the Yanks illegally invaded Iraq? How many innocent people in the Third World die of disease and hunger to support World Order and our cosy little lives in the West? Do we have memorials for them? Personally, I am fed up with this continual 9/11 business. I feel sorry for the people who died, yes, but I do not feel sorry for the people who are alive and who are feeling sorry for themselves. It's the dead person who gets the bum deal.

 

Well, thanks for that.

 

If I ever lose a member of my family through accident, illness or other circumstances, I will force myself not to grieve and be so self-pitying and self-indulgent by remembering your post.......

 

FFS.

[Dimond Geezer]

I remember it vividly. I watched it unfold live on Sky. It was horrific and I thought at the time that it would change everything. I think it did.

 

My son who was about 7 at the time was watching it, presumably thinking that it was a film. He asked what was happening and I told him that some evil people had flown the planes into the towers on purpose.

 

He thought about it for a while and then as if he'd found a mistake in what I'd told him, he said "But they wouldn't do that, because then they'd die too".

 

The innocence of youth.

 

My son was 4 at the time, when I got home from work my wife told me that whilst she was watching it repeated over & over again, she realised he was copying it with his toys. She decided it was time to put The Tellytubbies back on.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I saw a TV programme the other night which told the remarkable story of how one New York Port Authority office worker had 'surfed' down the stairwell of one of the collapsing towers and survived with minimal injuries. They had a Pathologist on who had examined hundreds of dead bodies from this atrocity - people who had been reduced to a mere scraps of flesh and bone in many cases - and he (as good as) said this story must be some sort of lie.

 

Well the programme found the man in question, and the Firemen who had rescued him. We can't be entirely sure I suppose but I believed him. When you read accounts of people who survive disasters you very often see that they have excellent survival instincts - in this case however for all the world it appeared to be nothing more than one ordinary mans dumb luck.

[Whitey Grandad]

It was a very sad event, sure, but the motor car and cigarettes kill far more people every single day. The Russians lost 20M in the War, so I think people need to put this event into perspective. How many innocent people died when the Yanks illegally invaded Iraq? How many innocent people in the Third World die of disease and hunger to support World Order and our cosy little lives in the West? Do we have memorials for them? Personally, I am fed up with this continual 9/11 business. I feel sorry for the people who died, yes, but I do not feel sorry for the people who are alive and who are feeling sorry for themselves. It's the dead person who gets the bum deal.

 

Quite true, but every one is a personal tragedy.

[Noodles34]

11th anniversary today. Nearly forgot, how stupid of me.

 

I still remember sitting in the lab at work, doing measurements, when a colleague rushed over and told me after the first tower was hit. I thought he was insane. We watched the second tower get hit live.

 

I still have trouble with fully understanding the reality of what happened that day, it seems like a movie plot. And I wonder if any of us realised what impact that day would have on the world and our lives; arguably, its way the biggest game-changer since the Germans invaded Poland.

 

For the 2977 innocent lost, and espeically the 1,122 still formally unidentified, 68 Brits and the 8 children on American Flight 77 and United Flight 175, I wish you all RIP.

 

For the 19 I hope you are all rotting in hell.

 

Hey Alpine, maybe their relatives should get over it and get on with their lives?

[Matthew Le God]

Especially the people jumping from the upper windows........................ Still begs the question why?

 

Because it was either that or suffocating from the fumes of the fires.

[svetigpung]

and GWB invades Iraq , a country which had bugger all to do with it.

 

How many innocent people got killed (and are still getting killed) as a result of this. Many more than the nearly three thousand in NY.

 

He didnt have the balls to make Saudi (where a majority the hijackers came from) his opponent.

[emerson massey]

and GWB invades Iraq , a country which had bugger all to do with it.

 

How many innocent people got killed (and are still getting killed) as a result of this. Many more than the nearly three thousand in NY.

 

He didnt have the balls to make Saudi (where a majority the hijackers came from) his opponent.

 

Thats a different thread though - this is discussing the tragic murder of 3000 innocents on 9/11, not the tragic murder of many 1000's since

[Hockey_saint]

I think this'll put the cat amongst the pigeons but you have to realise that whilst it isnt the innocent victim's fault that the US government were playing a very dangerous game arming the mujahaddin in exchange for bases in Saudi Arabia (those bases are the supposed reason for the 9/11 attacks) there are elements where US citizens are themselves culpable.

 

Personally, I've had this discussion with American friends who point out all the people who have been murdered by the IRA or the Loyalists and I point out that the funding of the IRA is thanks in part to fund raising in the states itself. In essence, I blame the people who sit in their ivory towers (no pun intended) and give money to "freedom fighters" thinking that all they're going to do is make cups of tea with it. The sad fact was that this was coming.

[pap]

Thats a different thread though - this is discussing the tragic murder of 3000 innocents on 9/11, not the tragic murder of many 1000's since

 

I'm not sure that the two can ever be separated. Cause and effect. One thing to remember is those that are left behind. Normally, this relates to the loved ones of those who died.

 

9/11 is extremely odd in that "those left behind" is pretty much all of us, and yes, we will one day need to face the fact that over a million died as a result of the 2 "retaliatory" Gulf Wars.

[alpine_saint]

I'm not sure that the two can ever be separated. Cause and effect. One thing to remember is those that are left behind. Normally, this relates to the loved ones of those who died.

 

9/11 is extremely odd in that "those left behind" is pretty much all of us, and yes, we will one day need to face the fact that over a million died as a result of the 2 "retaliatory" Gulf Wars.

 

 

The invasion of Afghanistan to stop the Taliban was right and was UN-sanctioned.

[emerson massey]

I'm not sure that the two can ever be separated. Cause and effect. One thing to remember is those that are left behind. Normally, this relates to the loved ones of those who died.

 

9/11 is extremely odd in that "those left behind" is pretty much all of us, and yes, we will one day need to face the fact that over a million died as a result of the 2 "retaliatory" Gulf Wars.

 

I understand that viewpoint, and completely sympathise. However whenever 9/11 gets discussed it inevitably leads to the innocents killed in Iraq etc. Personally, i feel this somewhat trivialises the tragedy of 9/11 as people say "well 3000 is nothing, what about the many others who have been killed etc". Of course i am paraphrasing here but the sentiment is correct.

 

Every single unneccesary death is a tragedy. I just feel that a thread like this, started on the anniversary of said act, should be about rememberance of those who died, not about the cause and affect.

 

For me personally of course. I hope this makes sense

[Sour Mash]

ah ok....just it happened mid afternoon in the week.......

 

anyway..comes round quick

As it happened, a load of us were. Met up in the bar at the ground with the plan of going on a pub crawl into town from there, ended up not leaving until 5 mins before kick off. Only got bits of news filtering through and the debate as to whether the game would/should be called off.

[pap]

I understand that viewpoint, and completely sympathise. However whenever 9/11 gets discussed it inevitably leads to the innocents killed in Iraq etc. Personally, i feel this somewhat trivialises the tragedy of 9/11 as people say "well 3000 is nothing, what about the many others who have been killed etc". Of course i am paraphrasing here but the sentiment is correct.

 

Every single unneccesary death is a tragedy. I just feel that a thread like this, started on the anniversary of said act, should be about rememberance of those who died, not about the cause and affect.

 

For me personally of course. I hope this makes sense

 

I'd agree that it is entirely disrespectful to say "3000 is nothing". The real question is whether the death of 3,000 people justifies the massive changes people say were down to 9/11.

 

I would disagree with your definition of what the scope of this thread should be. 9/11 is not just about those who died on the day. Those events live with all of us in some shape or form, as evidenced by quite a number of posts which simply detail what Saints fans were doing on the day. Unless people actually know anyone who was killed that day, it'll be very difficult to do what you suggest - remember them.

[pap]

The invasion of Afghanistan to stop the Taliban was right and was UN-sanctioned.

 

UN-sanctioned, definitely. Right? Arguable, especially since what they eventually did ( kill OBL in his pyjamas and drop him in the sea ) would have saved a whole lot of bother, even if they'd had to wait a few years for the opportunity to arise.

[Dig Dig]

Well, thanks for that.

 

If I ever lose a member of my family through accident, illness or other circumstances, I will force myself not to grieve and be so self-pitying and self-indulgent by remembering your post.......

 

FFS.

 

A bit like you were advocating in the Hillsborough thread?

 

Troll

[Noodles34]

A bit like you were advocating in the Hillsborough thread?

 

Troll

 

that sbloke is a cretin, people talk about him like he some endearing features, yet after the Hillsboro thread, well, it was enough siad for me.

[Jonnyboy]

Well, thanks for that.

 

If I ever lose a member of my family through accident, illness or other circumstances, I will force myself not to grieve and be so self-pitying and self-indulgent by remembering your post.......

 

FFS.

 

Just like the Hillsborough families eh? those self-pitying parasites.

 

edit: obviously Im not the only one to see the hypocrisy