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Tim Vickery on Uruguay

Black Sea Saint

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Saint Fan CaM

Saint Fan CaM

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I wouldn't pay much store to this. I don't think Ramirez can be judged over the course of a couple of internationals and anyway, when he gets up to speed at Saints his fitness and stamina will only get better because of the efforts made by the coaching team. Just look at the difference it's made to the likes of Lambert.

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saintbletch

saintbletch

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I wouldn't pay much store to this. I don't think Ramirez can be judged over the course of a couple of internationals and anyway, when he gets up to speed at Saints his fitness and stamina will only get better because of the efforts made by the coaching team. Just look at the difference it's made to the likes of Lambert.

 

I'd agree with what you say, except Tim Vickery really does know his South American football.

 

Another poster commented that Vickery was pretty "meh" about the signing when interviewed on Radio 5. Saying that Ramirez was a luxury player and might not do the tracking required in the Prem (paraphrasing from memory).

 

But I can't reconcile that with the esteem he is held in by Bologne's fans.

 

Let's hope Vickery's talking s***e.

 

After all, we once had a luxury player that didn't do the required tracking, and that didn't turn out too bad.

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Minty

Minty

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While this article clearly talks about how much Ramirez' tracking back and defensive work have improved:

 

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story/_/id/1150787/gotta:-alessandro-diamanti-needs-to-shine-for-bologna?&cc=5739

 

Pioli's biggest feat was talking both Diamanti and Ramirez, who had been known as ball-watchers when not in possession, into working hard at getting the ball back by pressuring and harassing defenders and midfielders. That was the main reason both players were taken off more than anybody else in the side last year - by the 75th minute, they were often tired, having covered more ground and had greater responsibility than most team-mates.
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skintsaint

skintsaint

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I'd agree with what you say, except Tim Vickery really does know his South American football.

 

Another poster commented that Vickery was pretty "meh" about the signing when interviewed on Radio 5. Saying that Ramirez was a luxury player and might not do the tracking required in the Prem (paraphrasing from memory).

 

But I can't reconcile that with the esteem he is held in by Bologne's fans.

 

Let's hope Vickery's talking s***e.

 

After all, we once had a luxury player that didn't do the required tracking, and that didn't turn out too bad.

 

Wouldn't be the first time, remember him bigging up Forlan when he went to Utd and he go that totally wrong.

 

I'm taking the fact Bologna fans were gutted at seeing him go as being a good sign. Also I can guarantee that if he had signed for Liverpool, Spurs or whoever he would be getting a hell of a lot more press about the positive side of his game.

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Glasgow_Saint

Glasgow_Saint

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I wouldn't pay much store to this. I don't think Ramirez can be judged over the course of a couple of internationals and anyway, when he gets up to speed at Saints his fitness and stamina will only get better because of the efforts made by the coaching team. Just look at the difference it's made to the likes of Lambert.

 

good point - Lambert can now last a whole 75 minutes :)

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JPTCount

JPTCount

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this article lost alot of credibility for me when I saw the picture caption, and it says Paraguay, this us thier south American football reporter and he cant get the countries right.

 

every golden generation comes to an end and the team have only slipped down the FIFA rankings because the copa America is only worth half the pints now and Europe had a competition to score points in.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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this article lost alot of credibility for me when I saw the picture caption, and it says Paraguay, this us thier south American football reporter and he cant get the countries right.

 

every golden generation comes to an end and the team have only slipped down the FIFA rankings because the copa America is only worth half the pints now and Europe had a competition to score points in.

 

I bet he doesn't write the picture captions though.

 

Tim Vickery is a renowned South American football expert, and he lives out there too. He's got spadefuls of credibility.

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rudi7s

rudi7s

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I think it is not uncommon for a talented player to underperform for his country, as Ramirez did in the Olympics.

 

Interestingly one of the commenters who seems to know his football wrote 'Gaston Ramirez is probably second only to Eden Hazard as the world's outstanding young creative playmaker. You can judge him at the Olympics.'

 

Then on Monday wrote it was either sink or swim in the PL. Ah fickle football fans.

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JPTCount

JPTCount

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I bet he doesn't write the picture captions though.

 

Tim Vickery is a renowned South American football expert, and he lives out there too. He's got spadefuls of credibility.

 

i'm sure he doesn't write the captions but he didn't check the finished article either.

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SaintRichmond

SaintRichmond

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I wouldn't pay much store to this. I don't think Ramirez can be judged over the course of a couple of internationals and anyway, when he gets up to speed at Saints his fitness and stamina will only get better because of the efforts made by the coaching team. Just look at the difference it's made to the likes of Lambert.

 

Quite ..... Adkins knows when to sub his "Saintsfit" players, because he knows at what stage of the game that they will be tired

 

Bad tactics, and bad result. Adkins deserved what he got, the Saints players that played their hearts out, didn't

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Dibden Purlieu Saint

Dibden Purlieu Saint

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Not worried about this. Messi tends to struggle a bit more more the International side than at Barca, plus the South American qualifiers are very different for players playing in Europe.

 

Weather conditions, humidity and altitude all differ greatly to Europe, and can have adverse effects on players that aren't correctly conditioned. Couple this with such a small sample size and frankly, I don't care what he says.

 

Gaston Ramirez a luxury player? Of course he is, and that is why we bought him. He is a player to unlock defences, pull players out of position etc. We didn't lose against Wigan because of a lack of tracking back.

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stu0x

stu0x

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Another poster commented that Vickery was pretty "meh" about the signing when interviewed on Radio 5. Saying that Ramirez was a luxury player and might not do the tracking required in the Prem (paraphrasing from memory).

 

But I can't reconcile that with the esteem he is held in by Bologne's fans.

I actually listened to the segment in question yesterday, it was on last week's World Football Phone In podcast.

 

He said, specifically, that Ramirez has a spectacular left foot and was absolutely deadly in free kick situations.

 

However, he expressed reservations overall because in his view Ramirez was quite 'flaky' and might not be up to the pace and pressure of the Premier League. Although he is quite tall, he is quite willowy and Vickery could see him getting pressured and bullied in the more physical PL (as opposed to Serie A, where generally there is less contact, less pressure and games are played at a slower tempo).

 

He said that his fear was that Ramirez is the sort of player who, if things are going great, will be quite an asset, but that if we get into a run of a few poor results (which realistically is likely to happen at some point - again! - this season) his head is likely to drop.

 

He said that Ramirez has impressed for the 'junior'/Olympic set up, but that he's had a couple of goes in the senior Uruguayan team and it hasn't quite worked out for him.

 

Vickery was by no means doing him down, on the contrary he ended it by saying that he really hoped it worked out as he is technically superb and that the premier league really deserves to have a talent like that in it. But he thought that the particular challenges of the PL could be a real problem for him.

 

For what it's worth, Vickery is very knowledgeable about South American football, and his opinion was based on a great deal more than a couple of matches. And I think you can reconcile his opinion with that of the Bologna fans given the particular misgivings he had.

 

In any regard, I think Ramirez has the potential to go either way for us. I think he has the ability to be a spectacular asset, but also potentially the temperament and gaps in his game to be a bit of a let down. Whichever way it goes, I think it will largely be down to Adkins' motivational ability and tactical acumen to both protect him and get the best from him.

 

The fans will also have a massive part to play - its just so fortunate that we aren't too quick to superficially judge players for being 'lazy' or useless when things aren't quite going right for them...

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Turkish

Turkish

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We should definitely disregard this article as it doesn't say Ramriez is the best player to ever appear in a Uruguay shirt and Southamptons incredible chairman Nicola Cortese has pulled off the signing of the decade getting him to join. This article is clearly lies written by a lazy jounrnalist with an anti Saints agenda.

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for_heaven's_Saint

for_heaven's_Saint

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We should definitely disregard this article as it doesn't say Ramriez is the best player to ever appear in a Uruguay shirt and Southamptons incredible chairman Nicola Cortese has pulled off the signing of the decade getting him to join. This article is clearly lies written by a lazy jounrnalist with an anti Saints agenda.

I agree.

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saintbletch

saintbletch

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I actually listened to the segment in question yesterday, it was on last week's World Football Phone In podcast.

 

He said, specifically, that Ramirez has a spectacular left foot and was absolutely deadly in free kick situations.

 

However, he expressed reservations overall because in his view Ramirez was quite 'flaky' and might not be up to the pace and pressure of the Premier League. Although he is quite tall, he is quite willowy and Vickery could see him getting pressured and bullied in the more physical PL (as opposed to Serie A, where generally there is less contact, less pressure and games are played at a slower tempo).

 

He said that his fear was that Ramirez is the sort of player who, if things are going great, will be quite an asset, but that if we get into a run of a few poor results (which realistically is likely to happen at some point - again! - this season) his head is likely to drop.

 

He said that Ramirez has impressed for the 'junior'/Olympic set up, but that he's had a couple of goes in the senior Uruguayan team and it hasn't quite worked out for him.

 

Vickery was by no means doing him down, on the contrary he ended it by saying that he really hoped it worked out as he is technically superb and that the premier league really deserves to have a talent like that in it. But he thought that the particular challenges of the PL could be a real problem for him.

 

For what it's worth, Vickery is very knowledgeable about South American football, and his opinion was based on a great deal more than a couple of matches. And I think you can reconcile his opinion with that of the Bologna fans given the particular misgivings he had.

 

In any regard, I think Ramirez has the potential to go either way for us. I think he has the ability to be a spectacular asset, but also potentially the temperament and gaps in his game to be a bit of a let down. Whichever way it goes, I think it will largely be down to Adkins' motivational ability and tactical acumen to both protect him and get the best from him.

 

The fans will also have a massive part to play - its just so fortunate that we aren't too quick to superficially judge players for being 'lazy' or useless when things aren't quite going right for them...

 

Thanks for expanding on the detail stu0x. It sounds like a fair and balanced appraisal.

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tajjuk

tajjuk

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I don't think there is anything to worry about, Ramirez is clearly very talented and also still very young, loads of players excel domestically but not internationally, you only have to look at England for that. He will also need time to adapt, new country, new league, new teamates, new language, new climate etc.

 

I suspect we will build the team around him, he is probably technically and talent wise better than anyone else in the team at the moment. If we play to his strengths and get him in the right positions I think he can be a huge success. It's something that international managers continue to fail to do, ask Lionel Messi.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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Who the hell is Tim Vickery anyway, and why does anyone give a sh!t hat he says?

 

 

 

He's a South American football expert.

 

He's been observing and commenting about SA football for many years.

 

Rest assured he certainly couldn't give a flying frig about what the dribblers on this forum think.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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I'd suggest to make an informed opinion on GR he should watch a lot of Italian football.

 

 

 

I would venture he does.

 

Being that 90% of this forum had never heard of Gaston before Sky linked him with us, sneering at a specialist journalist who knew about him from his first club is rather pathetic.

Edited by CB Fry
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aintforever

aintforever

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Posted
He's a South American football expert.

 

He's been observing and commenting about SA football for many years.

 

Rest assured he certainly couldn't give a flying frig about what the dribblers on this forum think.

 

Did he actually play proffesionally or is he just another journo talking b*ll*x?

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Minty

Minty

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Managers and scouts also have opinions and players are signed based on those opinions. Sometimes even they are wrong and sign duds.

 

So for me, this is nothing more than an interesting view from someone who has clearly seen a lot more of Ramirez than most of us, which I therefore respect, but it need not define Ramirez' entire career from this point forward.

 

What purpose is served by trying to 'rate' him against other 'experts' or anyone else's opinion. Take it for what it is, and lets just wait and see what actually happens.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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Not that you are generalising at all.......

 

 

 

People allowed to generalise about journalists though? And the initial question was based on a "he's never played the game" generalisation.

 

But hey, who's counting?

Edited by CB Fry
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Dibden Purlieu Saint

Dibden Purlieu Saint

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I would venture he does.

 

Being that 90% of this forum had never heard of Gaston before Sky linked him with us, sneering at a specialist journalist who knew about him from his first club is rather pathetic.

 

Right, however I had.

 

An Italian journalist saying this kind of thing would take far more credence in my book than one who has seen him playing occasionally for Uruguay. I would venture that he hasn't seen that much of him on the club scene, mainly because the guy concentrates on South American football, and not just International, but Domestic. That is a **** load of football to keep you going without following each SA that plays outside of SA.

 

No sneering went on, however I question his ability to be able to judge a player based on him seeing him a handful of times (also don't see any mention of him watching GR bor Bologna).

 

So instead of throwing a wobbly and calling me pathetic for questioning this, why don't you calm down and accept that I don't have to take his opinion based on the reasons above.

 

Not unreasonable is it?

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Saint Charlie

Saint Charlie

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Lets face it - if Ramirez was a fully polished player he wouldnt have just signed for us.

 

He is a player with a lot of ability and potential who should improve, very few players aged 20/21 are the final product just yet.

 

All Vickery is saying is that Ramirez still has improvement in him, and that generally the football world shouldn't expect him to be the final article.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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Right, however I had.

 

An Italian journalist saying this kind of thing would take far more credence in my book than one who has seen him playing occasionally for Uruguay. I would venture that he hasn't seen that much of him on the club scene, mainly because the guy concentrates on South American football, and not just International, but Domestic. That is a **** load of football to keep you going without following each SA that plays outside of SA.

 

No sneering went on, however I question his ability to be able to judge a player based on him seeing him a handful of times (also don't see any mention of him watching GR bor Bologna).

 

So instead of throwing a wobbly and calling me pathetic for questioning this, why don't you calm down and accept that I don't have to take his opinion based on the reasons above.

 

Not unreasonable is it?

 

I bet he had heard of him long, long before you had and I bet he has seen him far, far more times than you have. And I bet he had had more conversations with people in Italy and Uruguay about him than you've had warmed-up dinners.

 

What's your razor sharp judgement based on?

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Dibden Purlieu Saint

Dibden Purlieu Saint

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I bet he had heard of him long, long before you had and I bet he has seen him far, far more times than you have. And I bet he had had more conversations with people in Italy and Uruguay about him than you've had warmed-up dinners.

 

What's your razor sharp judgement based on?

 

My judgement is based on watching a fair amount of Italian football over the last 5 years, and the fact that the Italian team I support is Bologna (since the Di Vaio days). I can't believe that you think he has spent this much of his life watching a promising penarol player, when you have the ridiculous number of youngsters that come through the Brazilian and Argentinean leagues.

 

Frankly, I think you're talking absolute ******** if you think Vickery has spent THAT much time watching GR, and that you are very much mistaken.

 

For example, I guarantee Tancredi Palmeri has seen him far more than Vickery, and also in a more comparable situation (a club side).

 

If you want to discount everything I have put forward on this thread then go ahead, but I prefer to trust my own eyes and expectations above a guy that covers a whole continent.

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aintforever

aintforever

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No idea - Why does he have to have played professionally? Most footballers are dumb fu cks.

 

Journo's opinions and no more valid than yours or mine. My mates a sports journo and say most of them don't have a clue about footie. Many use sports as an easy foot in the door.

 

I used to blag his press pass to watch Saints games for free. Some of the cr@p the journos came out with in the press conferences was laughable. One even asked Redknapp why he didn't make Ruddock take the corners for Di Canio to head it in because Di Canio was the goal scorer!

 

Just because someone can write a good story doesn't mean they know anything about footie.

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