Fit to Wear the Shirt

[Shanghai Saint]

Interesting stats on the season to date

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2197890/Premier-League-season-far.html

 

Morgan has covered more ground than anyone else in the Premier League in the first three games of the season. The boy is really emerging as a genuine star.

[skintsaint]

Quite a few saints mentions in that article, also interesting seeing as a team we run about more it seems than anyone else, maybe why we are knackered come the last 10mins!

[saintbob40]

Hopefully we can start to keep the ball and make the other teams run around a bit once Cork is back.

[Noodles34]

Interesting stats on the season to date

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2197890/Premier-League-season-far.html

 

Morgan has covered more ground than anyone else in the Premier League in the first three games of the season. The boy is really emerging as a genuine star.

 

Never in doubt that he would emerge better in the EPL. It has been interesting watching him over the years, I remember in the 3rd div, how he struggled but you could see that behind it all, he was a proper footballer. Just a shame that Arsenal effectively bought him, give it a year or so, and they'll probably want him back.

[Wes Tender]

How come Lambert is not featured in the race for the golden boot. I thought that he also had two goals, or did I dream it?

[Suhari]

Never in doubt that he would emerge better in the EPL. It has been interesting watching him over the years, I remember in the 3rd div, how he struggled but you could see that behind it all, he was a proper footballer. Just a shame that Arsenal effectively bought him, give it a year or so, and they'll probably want him back.

 

What is the deal with 'Arsenal effectively bout him'? Have heard this mentioned before, but don't get it.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Considering Morgan was on the pitch at the end of the game, I would suggest the issue is one of stamina, not fitness. And it's true that we are starting to see why Morgan has been so highly thought of - it's not just his emerging technical ability - his physique and attitude is clearly superb.

[Webby]

Considering the fact that we've played the two Manchester clubs this stat is not surprising. However, I'll be happier when we can keep the ball a bit better and chase it a bit less.

[Saint_clark]

Can't see anything about pass completion there? I reckon we'd be pretty high on that as well.

[Saint Garrett]

What is the deal with 'Arsenal effectively bout him'? Have heard this mentioned before, but don't get it.

 

Were rumours that when he joined us, an agreement had been made that he'd spend a season here and then we would sell him to Arsenal....or something along those lines.

[pingwing]

Cool Morg has been everywhere for the first 3 games, that's been very impressive. JWP is also on the been everywhere stats for the United game.

 

Looks like if we give it a few more games we will get into our stride more!

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

It never ceases to surprise me, just how surprise some of our fans are, when it suddenly dawns on them than Morgan Schneiderlin is a proper player. Has this not been bleeding' obvious for years now ?

[The Kraken]

It never ceases to surprise me, just how surprise some of our fans are, when it suddenly dawns on them than Morgan Schneiderlin is a proper player. Has this not been bleeding' obvious for years now ?

 

It never ceases to amaze me how some of our fans equate running around a lot to being a great player.

[ant]

It never ceases to amaze me how some of our fans equate running around a lot to being a great player.

 

Rarely have truer words been spoken but the two aren't mutually exclusive, as Morgan has proved so far this season. Class player - chuffed that he's reaping the rewards of sticking with us through the bleak times.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

It never ceases to amaze me how some of our fans equate running around a lot to being a great player.

 

If that were all Morgan did then you might have a point. But as he does a hell of a lot more than that, you really don't.

[The Kraken]

If that were all Morgan did then you might have a point. But as he does a hell of a lot more than that, you really don't.

 

Where did I say it was all he did? I'm just a bit baffled that the ability to run around a lot is being used as a marker of what a great player Morgan has become.

 

I thought he was exceptional against Man United. Against Man City and Wigan, less so, I've continually stated he needs to cut out the sometime casual and careless nature of his game (which he did sublimely against United). His ability to cover more ground than anyone else doesn't actually mean a lot to me, if I'm honest (though its good to know he's pretty fit).

[Gemmel]

It never ceases to amaze me how some of our fans equate running around a lot to being a great player.

 

You are right of course, but in Morgans case this season, his performances warrant the praise he has been getting.

 

Ironically, I wouldnt have had him down as being close to the player who has covered the most ground- Shows what I know

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Where did I say it was all he did? I'm just a bit baffled that the ability to run around a lot is being used as a marker of what a great player Morgan has become.

 

I thought he was exceptional against Man United. Against Man City and Wigan, less so, I've continually stated he needs to cut out the sometime casual and careless nature of his game (which he did sublimely against United). His ability to cover more ground than anyone else doesn't actually mean a lot to me, if I'm honest (though its good to know he's pretty fit).

 

The only reasonable conclusion to draw from your post (13) is that you consider MS is to be among the 'Headless Chicken' type of footballer. Now if that view is not what you meant to imply then you should take more care in your posting.

[The Kraken]

The only reasonable conclusion to draw from your post (13) is that you consider MS is to be among the 'Headless Chicken' type of footballer. Now if that view is not what you meant to imply then you should take more care in your posting.

 

Being as post #13 included no reference from myself to the ability of any player, I think you probably need to take more care in your reading (and avoid putting words in other people's mouths which, as you'll see from my post #16, I clearly don't believe in the first place).

[The Kraken]

You are right of course, but in Morgans case this season, his performances warrant the praise he has been getting.

 

Ironically, I wouldnt have had him down as being close to the player who has covered the most ground- Shows what I know

 

Agreed on the first point, to an extent. As I've said earlier I think against Man City he was sometimes a bit naive and got needlessly caught in posession at least a couple of times. Also I've been critical in the past that he has a tendency to be a bit sloppy with simple passing, sometimes in dangerous areas of the pitch.

 

Wigan, well the whole team didn't really perform or stand out in that so I won't pass comment. And against United he seemed to have learnt his lessons from the City game and had one of the best games I've ever seen him play.

 

So yes, I think he can progress even further to be a really good player for us. He does need to find a level of consistency though, and cut out the casualness and carelessness which have previously been the downside to an otherwise calm and technically gifted player. Running around a lot is no real benchmark as far as I'm concerned.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Being as post #13 included no reference from myself to the ability of any player, I think you probably need to take more care in your reading (and avoid putting words in other people's mouths which, as you'll see from my post #16, I clearly don't believe in the first place).

 

No, as my post (and this entire thread) is devoted to Morgan Schneiderlin your post 13 clearly implies that you believe MS to be long on "running about" - your exact words - and by implication short on talent one can only presume.

[Noodles34]

What is the deal with 'Arsenal effectively bout him'? Have heard this mentioned before, but don't get it.

 

The deal is and was connected with Walcott. Remember when we bought MS? We paid around 2 million form Strasbourg at a time when we were on the verge of administration. How did we do that? I believe it was all tied up in the renegotiated Walcott deal and so Arsenal buy the player for us and we have him until he is fit and proper, ready for The Gunners (very soon in my opinion). Clearly this all speculation Morgan said he didnt know anything about that (he would say that though wouldnt he), but I kept teasing him on all night and i could tell there was something in it from his reaction.

[Webby]

No, as my post (and this entire thread) is devoted to Morgan Schneiderlin your post 13 clearly implies that you believe MS to be long on "running about" - your exact words - and by implication short on talent one can only presume.

 

That's rubbish, he doesn't even mention MS. I see Kraken's point exactly. I was gonna say the same myself, but decided to take into account the teams we've played, namely the 2 manchester clubs where we were clearly going to be chasing the ball a little bit more than we'd like.

[View From The Top]

The deal is and was connected with Walcott. Remember when we bought MS? We paid around 2 million form Strasbourg at a time when we were on the verge of administration. How did we do that? I believe it was all tied up in the renegotiated Walcott deal and so Arsenal buy the player for us and we have him until he is fit and proper, ready for The Gunners (very soon in my opinion). Clearly this all speculation Morgan said he didnt know anything about that (he would say that though wouldnt he), but I kept teasing him on all night and i could tell there was something in it from his reaction.

 

I holiday'd with Morgan's agent last summer in the Vendee. Ex French international & Ex PSG captain & the Arsenal "option" had expired thus being free to negotiate a new contract, which was announced last August.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

That's rubbish, he doesn't even mention MS. I see Kraken's point exactly. I was gonna say the same myself, but decided to take into account the teams we've played, namely the 2 manchester clubs where we were clearly going to be chasing the ball a little bit more than we'd like.

 

This is a thread about Morgan Schneiderlin and fitness you loon. Any view that MS is all effort and no talent is utterly pointless because such a opinion never comes within spitting distance of the truth.

[Webby]

This is a thread about Morgan Schneiderlin and fitness you loon. Any view that MS is all effort and no talent is utterly pointless because such a opinion never comes within spitting distance of the truth.

 

Thanks, but Kraken made a general point about the perception made in the OP about the correlation of distance covered equaling great player:

 

Morgan has covered more ground than anyone else in the Premier League in the first three games of the season. The boy is really emerging as a genuine star.

 

I didn't read Kraken's post as an implication that MS is a 'headless chicken'.

 

We know that there is more to his game than that. Of course there is, but just cos he's top of that particular stat proves nothing other than his fitness/stamina to be able to cover that distance. I'm sure most prem midfielders are also able to do so, but I'm sure they'd prefer to keep possession and let the ball do the work a bit more but as I say, given the opponents in 2 of the 3 games its an understandable statistic.

[Whitey Grandad]

Impressive, but I think I'd rather see a lower figure and a bit more passing and possession. Incidentally, it's not just Morgan, the whole team runs about more than most. Against Man City 66.24 miles. Ward-Prowse covered more than Morgan against Man Utd, 6.96 miles v. 6.93. He also has third highest average speed in a match, 5.12 mph against City.

 

(Daily Mail today, page 73)

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

The notion that Saints fans are inordinately impressed with perspiration, rather than inspiration, seems to this observer to be without significant foundation in fact. For the life of me I can't remember all that much rioting in Britannia Road when the news broke than Paul Wotton was getting the boot, neither can I recall the last time anyone on here called for Simon Gillette's return, or for the immediate cancellation of Jonathon Forte's loan.

 

It seems to me that in order to express their talent to its full potential any footballer in the modern game must first achieve a level of fitness that rivals that of an Olympic athlete. Take another of our most recent academy products for instance - Gareth Bale. This lad has all the natural talent you could ask for in any young player, he also has the kind of body - honed to a superb level of fitness - that allows him to reach his full potential. You cannot have one without the other.

 

It is not actually a bad thing for a footballer to be fit/strong/quick - it's not be enough just to be fit or quick of course - but you're going nowhere in this game without that physical foundation to work on. The era when players could get away with smoking and bad diets etc is long gone now ... although some on here don't appear to have noticed.

[Dimond Geezer]

. The era when players could get away with smoking and bad diets etc is long gone now ... .

 

I think quite a lot of players smoke, especially foreign ones, in Italy & France it's almost their national pastime. Personally I could never understand how i) a youngster wishing to be a pro sportsman decides it's a good idea to spark-up, and ii) an established pro-sportsman chooses to smoke later into his career, Gazza for example.

[The Kraken]

I didn't read Kraken's post as an implication that MS is a 'headless chicken'.

 

We know that there is more to his game than that. Of course there is, but just cos he's top of that particular stat proves nothing other than his fitness/stamina to be able to cover that distance. I'm sure most prem midfielders are also able to do so, but I'm sure they'd prefer to keep possession and let the ball do the work a bit more but as I say, given the opponents in 2 of the 3 games its an understandable statistic.

 

Indeed, and thanks for reading my comments as they were intended without putting a silly misinterpreted spin on them.

 

The notion that Saints fans are inordinately impressed with perspiration, rather than inspiration, seems to this observer to be without significant foundation in fact.

 

Now I know you're having a laugh. Guly is just about the most derided player on here and at the ground; exactly because he's not a blood and thunder merchant. "Too lazy", "always trying stuff that doesn't come off", "frustrating languid style" are all comments on read about him on here. And Richard Chaplow is often suggested a much better option by fans on here (though clearly not the manager) because he's a box to boxer. De Ridder was initially championed as a much better option as he was quick and got stuck in, until it finally twigged that he was actually very average with the ball. I'm not for a minute saying everyone thinks it, that would be ludicrous, but its a common theme that I've read many times on here so its not exactly a tiny minority either.

 

Your comments about fitness levels are valid (if not fairly obvious). And its good that we seem to have a squad who are on top fitness, especially so when this has clearly not been the case in our recent past.

Edited 4 September, 2012 by The Kraken

[PokingFun]

Can't see anything about pass completion there? I reckon we'd be pretty high on that as well.

 

There's a site called whoscored.com powered by OPTA that gives these stats. An interesting read if you are into football statistics but they have our pass success rate so far in line with a mid-table team.

 

MS was around the 90% mark on Sunday over 64 passes which is absolutely top class.

 

There is also a field on passing that identifies key passes as well as a host of other stats. You have to read between the lines a little to make sense of some of it but it is a pretty objective measure. The other noticeable aspect is that we are bottom half of table in terms of possession (I think at around 42% from memory) but this is no surprise as a result of the teams we have played. We were 50/50 or so versus Wigan, 45/55 versus Man U and 35/65 versus Man City.

[The9]

Anyone got any stats on distance run by Saints players compared to Man Utd players ? Would be interesting to see if that (as well as chipping the ball at Mayuka's head) contributed to our obvious tiredness in the last 15 minutes on Sunday.

[Thedelldays]

Anyone got any stats on distance run by Saints players compared to Man Utd players ? Would be interesting to see if that (as well as chipping the ball at Mayuka's head) contributed to our obvious tiredness in the last 15 minutes on Sunday.

are you now convinced Lambert is good enough for this league and can play the lone striker role..?

[shurlock]

My worry is not that this is headless chicken stuff. Am pretty sure Barcelona and the Spanish nation team cover alot of ground, closing players and hunting in packs. Rather the worry is that this is not sustainable.

Think back to the beginning of last season when we were so effective at playing high-intensity football but then dipped as our energy levels invariably dropped - the Reading game straight after the Wham game was a good example. Save superhuman stamina, this kind of football requires a deep squad to play this kind of football; yet we're basically reliant on the same midfielders week in and week out. What's more, we're not even winning and making it count.

[View From The Top]

My worry is not that this is headless chicken stuff. Am pretty sure Barcelona and the Spanish nation team cover alot of ground, closing players and hunting in packs. Rather the worry is that this is not sustainable.

Think back to the beginning of last season when we were so effective at playing high-intensity football but then dipped as our energy levels invariably dropped - the Reading game straight after the Wham game was a good example. Save superhuman stamina, this kind of football requires a deep squad to play this kind of football; yet we're basically reliant on the same midfielders week in and week out. What's more, we're not even winning and making it count.

 

If we'd of had Cork to come off the bench on Sunday we'd of won. When the energy dipped we had no good DCM on the bench to bring on.

[shurlock]

If we'd of had Cork to come off the bench on Sunday we'd of won. When the energy dipped we had no good DCM on the bench to bring on.

 

True, Cork would have made a massive difference but could we play that kind of football with our squad over the course of the whole season, especially if we're starting three rather than two CMs which worked a treat against United (obviously, we might revert back to 2 CMs and Lallana against Villa). If so, we only have Cork to cover the 3 CMs. There's Chaplow but he's more a sub who can shore things up rather than a starter in his own right capable of giving others a breather.

 

And then there's JWP - Adkins made a big deal about resting AOC even when he was in fine form - 'growing bodies' and all that. For similar reasons, can't see JWP playing week in, week out regardless of his form.

[View From The Top]

True, Cork would have made a massive difference but could we play that kind of football with our squad over the course of the whole season, especially if we're starting three rather than two CMs which worked a treat against United (obviously, we might revert back to 2 CMs and Lallana against Villa). If so, we only have Cork to cover the 3 CMs. There's Chaplow but he's more a sub who can shore things up rather than a starter in his own right capable of giving others a breather.

 

And then there's JWP - Adkins made a big deal about resting AOC even when he was in fine form - 'growing bodies' and all that. For similar reasons, can't see JWP playing week in, week out regardless of his form.

 

He'll rotate I'd imagine & we do now have the benefit of international breaks.

[itchen]

I thought the title of this thread was going to call for a fitness test for our more !"big boned" supporters before selling them replica shirts to squeeze into.

[shurlock]

He'll rotate I'd imagine & we do now have the benefit of international breaks.

 

Yep and the fact its a 38 rather than a 46 game season will help.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Now I know you're having a laugh. Guly is just about the most derided player on here and at the ground; exactly because he's not a blood and thunder merchant. "Too lazy", "always trying stuff that doesn't come off", "frustrating languid style" are all comments on read about him on here. And Richard Chaplow is often suggested a much better option by fans on here (though clearly not the manager) because he's a box to boxer. De Ridder was initially championed as a much better option as he was quick and got stuck in, until it finally twigged that he was actually very average with the ball. I'm not for a minute saying everyone thinks it, that would be ludicrous, but its a common theme that I've read many times on here so its not exactly a tiny minority either.......

 

While I think this forum has had more than enough Guly do Prado threads of late, as you've brought him up I'll have to exercise my right of reply.

 

You are being misleading when you opine that the widespread criticism Guly has certainly received is based on our fanbase holding the view that he is not putting in a sufficient physical effort during games. Some may think that (a small minority methinks) but in the main I'd say he gets "derided" (as you put it) not because he doesn't 'run about enough', but because a great many fans (rightly or wrongly) don't happen to think he is a very good footballer - at least at this level.

 

You also raise Steve de Ridder - who would appear to be a extremely fit player. It should be abundantly clear to anyone who has been paying attention that the vast majority of fans on this forum (and at St Marys as far as I can tell) have already concluded that he too is not good enough for the Premier League - indeed this view has become as close to becoming a consensus as you'll ever see on here. It the light of this why you believe the SDR example supports your argument, rather than mine, is something of a mystery to this fan.

 

So in conclusion I'm struggling to see a shred of evidence to support your view that Saints fans are a uniquely ignorant lot who place too high a value on fitness over technical ability. For what its worth, having met fans from all sorts of different clubs over the years, it seems to me that our fanbase is as knowledgeable as most are about the game.

Edited 4 September, 2012 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[Miffy]

I holiday'd with Morgan's agent last summer in the Vendee. Ex French international & Ex PSG captain & the Arsenal "option" had expired thus being free to negotiate a new contract, which was announced last August.

 

Good to know

[The Kraken]

Chas: Wow, you do spectacularly miss the point very well, don't you? I wonder if its deliberate or just a concerted attempt to be obtuse and misrepresent other people's views.

 

I've made my point on this one, and stand by it. Agree to disagree if you will, but I have no desire to engage anymore with someone who either doesn't get the point or just wants to twist it to their own ends.