Arsenal Build Up Thread

[farawaysaint]

It is because we have a large number of posters with "sheep"-like tendencies.

"I saw Fonte make a mistake or two and therefore (as I saw some others post it as a fact) he is sh1te".

"I saw Jos give away two stupid penalties but (as I saw some others post it as a fact) he is still fantastic".

 

Be fair, only one was a penalty. I don't think our defenders are crap by any means but they seem to tire massively around 70 minutes or so.

[Window Cleaner]

"I saw Jos give away two stupid penalties

 

 

Just that could be troubling José, it's pretty evident even from just 3 matches at this level that Jos vs a class A1.5Star attacker is a penalty waiting to happen every time. As an analogy when you have pain in your right knee you tend to

subconciously compensate and you often end up with a pain in the left knee as well.

 

Jos can't tackle quick attackers who turn on him and it will be a big problem cos Kelvin ai

n't going to save all the penalties. If Silva and RVP hadn't f*cked up we'd have been out of sight in all 3 of our matches already.

[Window Cleaner]

Be fair, only one was a penalty. I don't think our defenders are crap by any means but they seem to tire massively around 70 minutes or so.

 

 

they were both penalties,

[saint-crinny]

It is because we have a large number of posters with "sheep"-like tendencies.

"I saw Fonte make a mistake or two and therefore (as I saw some others post it as a fact) he is sh1te".

"I saw Jos give away two stupid penalties but (as I saw some others post it as a fact) he is still fantastic".

 

Think the issue here is that you can coach Jos to stop him making reckless tackles in the box and tell him to stay on his feet, whereas Jose's mistakes - losing runners being the biggest issue (Tevez, RVP - although clearly, better defenders than Fonte will come up short against these players) is a little bit more difficult to work on. Fonte was the weaker of the two CBs last season as well, in my opinion.

 

For those reasons - i would expect that Jos keeps his place and partners Yoshida, once he is up to speed, with Fonte as a useful replacement for both if needed.

[Saint Charlie]

Think the issue here is that you can coach Jos to stop him making reckless tackles in the box and tell him to stay on his feet, whereas Jose's mistakes - losing runners being the biggest issue (Tevez, RVP - although clearly, better defenders than Fonte will come up short against these players) is a little bit more difficult to work on. Fonte was the weaker of the two CBs last season as well, in my opinion.

 

For those reasons - i would expect that Jos keeps his place and partners Yoshida, once he is up to speed, with Fonte as a useful replacement for both if needed.

 

I feel the opposite with Fonte.

 

He is making poor individual errors, not being done for pace or strength or indeed skill.

 

He needs a back up the backside but he is capable of playing well at this level, he justs needs to get his confidence back and get back to doing the basics well ie marking, heading, tackling, passing.

 

He largely defended well personally at City, and wasnt terrible home to Wigan until the second goal. He just needs to concentrate for 90mins.

[saint-crinny]

I feel the opposite with Fonte.

 

He is making poor individual errors, not being done for pace or strength or indeed skill.

 

He needs a back up the backside but he is capable of playing well at this level, he justs needs to get his confidence back and get back to doing the basics well ie marking, heading, tackling, passing.

 

He largely defended well personally at City, and wasnt terrible home to Wigan until the second goal. He just needs to concentrate for 90mins.

 

He has made some poor individual errors and i agree, strength and pace isnt the issue - Wigan being the obvious one - but the other errors in terms of losing his man repeatedly are going to cost us - just a few examples:

 

- Losing Tevez for first City goal

- Losing Hernandez late on against United - Clyne made a superb tackle to save a goal

- Shanking off for a corner and then completely losing Van Persie for the winner against United

 

It's these kind of errors that make him look out of his depth, not the individual ones against Wigan, which can happen to anyone (just hopefully not very often!) Hopefully he can raise his game - hardly fair to write him off after three games and two of them against last year's champs and runners-up - but i have some doubts, that have been there since last year in the Championship to be honest.

[The9]

The counter to that argument is the taking him off v's Man Utd only for us to lose. Lambert works hard enough but he doesn't exactly spend 90 minutes chasing defenders does he? I think he's earned the opportunity to play 90 minutes unless Adkins feels urgent changes are needed during the game and I think he can cause problems for Arsenal.

 

I can easily see Guly doing the chasing down of defenders/midfielders that Ramirez's presence might reduce. I can also see Gaston getting a start because of the less physical kind of game Arsenal play - at worst it'll scare him into a bit of workrate off the ball, which most reports seem to indicate wasn't his strength until recently.

[The9]

I feel the opposite with Fonte.

 

He is making poor individual errors, not being done for pace or strength or indeed skill.

 

He needs a back up the backside but he is capable of playing well at this level, he justs needs to get his confidence back and get back to doing the basics well ie marking, heading, tackling, passing.

 

He largely defended well personally at City, and wasnt terrible home to Wigan until the second goal. He just needs to concentrate for 90mins.

 

You can add "losing the plot and slicing the ball off the pitch repeatedly late on against Man U" to that list - he also managed one completed pass to Clyne which went off the side of his boot via a passing plane. I'm not sure whether we'll risk Yoshida with only a couple of days' training with the rest of the defence though.

 

Very difficult to call our starting side for this one, especially with the Man City experiment in mind. We should, at least, be in a position where we have a few more squad players on the bench we can rely on - which didn't seem to be the case for the Wigan match.

[The9]

I look forward to the day when I can go to SMS and be confident that, barring an utter disaster, I will leave the ground talking about the fantastic, strong, leak-proof defence we've got! One can only dream! LOL

 

The fact both Man U and Man C fans are unable to do that at the moment even against plucky losers like Saints (!) suggests it's a generally more attack-minded League than often in the past - or that defending isn't what it was with the systems currently favoured.

[SuperMikey]

Kevin Friend is refereeing. Thank christ for that.

[PhilippineSaint]

Kevin Friend is refereeing. Thank christ for that.

 

But is he our Friend is the question.

[Itchen_block4]

Be fair, only one was a penalty. I don't think our defenders are crap by any means but they seem to tire massively around 70 minutes or so.

 

This happens to all of the players, not just defenders. Defending at the top level is so difficult and it's not just defenders who have to do it. Lambert is probably our best defender as well as our best attacker with his strength and ability on the ball giving us a huge boost in playing ourselves out of holes. It's a difficult situation when we rely so heavily on someone who won't last much more than 70 minutes of a very tough game. Take him off when evryone else is knackered too and were going to concede. Games that you have to chase a lot are longer for the players than games where you are on the front foot. Part of being a manager is anticipating how games are likely to pan out and selecting accordingly. I think hard work can grind out the first half for us, then we can throw Lambert on and go for the win.

 

Hooiveld/Fonte/Yoshida/Any CB against a world class striker really is no contest, so the team needs to work together to cut out the service. Set pieces are the main situation where attackers and defenders have a level playing field.

[S-Clarke]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11731/8070113/Swans-swoop-for-Tiendalli

 

That's a little frustrating. Would have hoped we'd be in for a LB. Good quality as well on a short-term deal.

[up and away]

Originally Posted by kpturner

 

It is because we have a large number of posters with "sheep"-like tendencies.

"I saw Fonte make a mistake or two and therefore (as I saw some others post it as a fact) he is sh1te".

"I saw Jos give away two stupid penalties but (as I saw some others post it as a fact) he is still fantastic".

 

 

Think the issue here is that you can coach Jos to stop him making reckless tackles in the box and tell him to stay on his feet, whereas Jose's mistakes - losing runners being the biggest issue (Tevez, RVP - although clearly, better defenders than Fonte will come up short against these players) is a little bit more difficult to work on. Fonte was the weaker of the two CBs last season as well, in my opinion.

 

For those reasons - i would expect that Jos keeps his place and partners Yoshida, once he is up to speed, with Fonte as a useful replacement for both if needed.

 

Fontes problems all stem from a lack of concentration brought about by pace or physical effort. He's been like this since he first arrived at Saints in League 1, always giving the opposition that chance per game. At the start those forwards were not taking full advantage when he would nod off and get the wrong side of an attacker followed by panic. I said it then and it's still the same now, except more expensive at this level. Most of the time the rest of Fontes was so good you would forget about the odd lapse or as I did, believe it was because he was too busy covering for others. Fonte still has many good moments on the pitch I can see the possibility of him doing something in midfield, but he has to be pulled from CB.

 

I agree with you about Hooiveld but reckon it's going to take some work, it's just in his DNA at the moment. I am not sure there is a place for Fonte in the defence even as sub, though I don't mind the idea of going to a 5 man midfield with Fonte in front of the CB's. That may be an iffy thing to say given the performance of our midfield, but Fonte has qualities. It's just being able to use them without him costing us.

[shurlock]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11731/8070113/Swans-swoop-for-Tiendalli

 

That's a little frustrating. Would have hoped we'd be in for a LB. Good quality as well on a short-term deal.

 

Concrete proof that 'having a name' for a manager makes a difference to your ability to recruit.

[Itchen_block4]

Concrete proof that 'having a name' for a manager makes a difference to your ability to recruit.

 

Console yourself with the fact that he's probably not that good anyway. Anyone who is still a free agent after the window closes comes with some sort of catch - age, wages, injuries, attitude, lack of fitness, being crap etc. It's a signing that screams panic.

[pingwing]

Console yourself with the fact that he's probably not that good anyway. Anyone who is still a free agent after the window closes comes with some sort of catch - age, wages, injuries, attitude, lack of fitness, being crap etc. It's a signing that screams panic.

 

He was a mistake on football manager the last few seasons, always went on a free the year I got someone silly promoted to the prem and always was useless!

 

Real life assessment, if Michael Owen signed a contract before he did, he must be rubbish!

[itchen_dan]

Result...

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-abou-diaby-is-injured-again-1317878?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

Surprise, surprise: Injury-prone Diaby is back on Arsenal's sick list

 

Midfielder is ruled out of France's midweek World Cup game and may not recover in time to face Southampton on Saturday

 

Arsenal midfielder Abou Diaby's injury curse has struck AGAIN.

 

The luckless France midfielder has been ruled out of their World Cup qualifier with Belarus on Tuesday, and is also a doubt for Saturday's meeting between the Gunners and Southampton.

 

Les Bleus boss Didier Deschamps revealed that Diaby took a kick against Finland on Friday, now has a muscle strain and will not be risked.

 

Deschamps said: "He felt a bit of muscle pain in training. He knows his body well, all the players do, but maybe he knows his a little bit more given all the problems he's had before.

 

"He's not moving freely in his body. Before you envisage going out on the pitch, it's better not to have any worries when you're on the massage table."

 

Diaby played only five games last season - two in November, one in early March and two in mid-April - as he battled a variety of injuries, but had started the Gunners' first three games of the new campaign.

 

Arsenal are, however, set for an injury boost.

 

Czech midfielder Tomas Rosicky is set to return to full training and could be back within two weeks.

[southamptonfclegend]

Massive boost if Diaby is injured heard he played really well last weekend, just hoping Carzola get's injured too that lad is also class.

[saint1977]

Console yourself with the fact that he's probably not that good anyway. Anyone who is still a free agent after the window closes comes with some sort of catch - age, wages, injuries, attitude, lack of fitness, being crap etc. It's a signing that screams panic.

 

Taylor their regular LB, who is highly rated, suffered a bad injury the weekend before last and I read somewhere that he's out for 6 months+. So this guy is probably additional cover. What we need from our defenders, Clyne excepted, is more resilience and I'm thinking specifically of Jose and Danny Fox. Jos reads the game the best out of our back 4 but is probably the least athletic. Fonte isn't as slow as some on here would have you believe but he just doesn't seem to consistently read the game and make allowances for his shortcomings in the way that Jos does. Against the big clubs, a lot of the game is mental as well as physical. Fonte's head started going with about 10 minutes to go and if we'd had Yoshida available he'd have been coming on for sure. Look at Andy Murray's resilence, Djokovic turns around a 2 set defecit but Murray would not be beaten and found that extra gear with the work Lendl's been doing with him. Wonder if we need to add a top class former centre half to the coaching team?

[Itchen_block4]

Taylor their regular LB, who is highly rated, suffered a bad injury the weekend before last and I read somewhere that he's out for 6 months+. So this guy is probably additional cover. What we need from our defenders, Clyne excepted, is more resilience and I'm thinking specifically of Jose and Danny Fox. Jos reads the game the best out of our back 4 but is probably the least athletic. Fonte isn't as slow as some on here would have you believe but he just doesn't seem to consistently read the game and make allowances for his shortcomings in the way that Jos does. Against the big clubs, a lot of the game is mental as well as physical. Fonte's head started going with about 10 minutes to go and if we'd had Yoshida available he'd have been coming on for sure. Look at Andy Murray's resilence, Djokovic turns around a 2 set defecit but Murray would not be beaten and found that extra gear with the work Lendl's been doing with him. Wonder if we need to add a top class former centre half to the coaching team?

 

Fox worries me more than Fonte does. For Man U's first, you see Clyne slip but Fox is standing off Valencia and letting him get the cross in early before the people in the middle are ready to deal with it. That sort of defending can be costly at this level and I don't suppose Adkins was best pleased with that one. Someone like Van Persie can lose his man in a split second and we can give him some credit for that, but big questions need to be asked when someone isn't doing the really simple stuff right. Kelvin's dodgy distribution could have been costly too.

[ben05]

As others have said in the unlikely event anyone on here can’t go let me know. Can pick up tickets outside the ground ect. bennew@hotmail.co.uk

 

Really think we can get at least a point out of this. Have GR on the bench for "impact". Punch should start.

[tajjuk]

Been having a look on the Arsenal forums, in the thread like this.

 

Most of them are expecting a comfortable win, some predicting a hammering. They seem to also think that we are going to go there and attack and that will suit them.

[Suomi Saint]

I think we'll win this one.....2-0.

[Itchen_block4]

Been having a look on the Arsenal forums, in the thread like this.

 

Most of them are expecting a comfortable win, some predicting a hammering. They seem to also think that we are going to go there and attack and that will suit them.

 

Dunno about attacking, but we'll certainly be getting in their faces and making it hard for them to settle on the ball.

[Thedelldays]

Been having a look on the Arsenal forums, in the thread like this.

 

Most of them are expecting a comfortable win, some predicting a hammering. They seem to also think that we are going to go there and attack and that will suit them.

they would probably be right.........we are going to get beat on this one....sorry to say.

[Boris Karloff]

I think we will do alright in this one. I was at the Arsenal Sunderland game and they were pretty hopeless. If you stop Carzola playing you seem to stop the team. Gervinho can be a threat but is very unpredictable. I think the way we play with three strong midfielders in MS, SD and JWP/AL/JC will help stop them playing. They have Carl Jenkinson playing who is a Championship defender at best so hopefully we will create something up front.

[Smirking_Saint]

Honestly, I think we will take a massive kicking

 

We will go out cavalier and Arsenal will turn us over, tbh though I wouldnt be that bothered

[Window Cleaner]

Honestly, I think we will take a massive kicking

 

We will go out cavalier and Arsenal will turn us over, tbh though I wouldnt be that bothered

 

 

Well I actually think we'll get at least our first point of the season, the Arse have difficulty with teams that get at them.

With any luck they'll have to play Ramsey, that should give us a goal start at least.

[Bearsy]

That Giroud will definitely get his first Arsenal goal against us. I've drafted him in to my FF team to take full advantage!

[Tokyo-Saint]

Agree, remember bloody Henry got his first against us after a 6 year goal drought.

[Window Cleaner]

That Giroud will definitely get his first Arsenal goal against us. I've drafted him in to my FF team to take full advantage!

 

 

He was absolute crap for France on Tuesday, then again that could be the Deschamps factor, it's pretty well known that he can turn a good striker into vegetable in a few seconds, why he could probably even stop Rickie scoring.

[itchen_dan]

Agree, remember bloody Henry got his first against us after a 6 year goal drought.

 

[Tokyo-Saint]

Exactly, I wouldn't be supprised if szczesny scored a hatrick against us.

[scotty]

Difficult to call. Arse have obviously struggled for goals, but will most likely put one or two past us tbh. I can see us nicking a point with a late equaliser.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Shaw to start according to the echo.

[DT]

So, just to recap. We STILL have an inadequate defence. Oh good.

[Window Cleaner]

Shaw to start according to the echo.

 

Can't be right, after all we wouldn't have sold Harding to Forest if we didn't have an adequate replacement at left back in hand,

perhaps they're counting on Ox giving an easy time to his old classmate. Our recruitment borders on incompetence to be honest, well in my opinion it does anyway. Next they'll be telling me that Dickson is going to get a PL start.

[Saint Charlie]

Wenger says Saints are "a dangerous team that can score goals". Also says Diaby could play but he won't take a chance on his fitness.

 

Theo fitness test after his virus and Sagna back in 2-3 weeks so probs Jenkinson at RB.

 

Also - RVP injured so shame either he didn't move or the matches werent the other way around!

[Saint Charlie]

Can't be right, after all we wouldn't have sold Harding to Forest if we didn't have an adequate replacement at left back in hand,

perhaps they're counting on Ox giving an easy time to his old classmate. Our recruitment borders on incompetence to be honest, well in my opinion it does anyway. Next they'll be telling me that Dickson is going to get a PL start.

 

Or - they rate Shaw as a good second LB. We havent seen enough of him (he has played 13mins vs Millwall and then 90 vs Stevenage and was taken ill the day after needing hospital treatment.)

 

I saw him vs Anderlecht and he was very comfortable against the best side we faced in pre season. Clearly a massive talent so good luck to him.

[Mowgli]

Breaking News: Teves, Ballotelli Scholes and Van Persie are better players than Fox, Fonte and Jos.

 

Honestly, are we really surprised? We have just come up from Div 1 and these players have been absolute rocks for us. They are adapting to life in the Premier League and are finding it tough. It does not make them bad players overnight. They just came up against two of the top teams in the league that we did not expect to get points out of anyway.

 

NA has indicated how tough it is to get top quality defenders to the club but our defence has been improved despite the comments to the contrary. We have Yoshida who appears to be a top quality CB. We have Clyne who was being courted by Manchester United and chose us instead and we have one of the UKs hottest prospects in Luke Shaw promoted to the first team squad. Clyne, in particular, is so good that you start to realise how much of a step up it is for the others. They really need our support right now as they adapt and work on their game. I still have confidence that they can do a good job in the PL. I would rather see us develop the talent that we already have as opposed to the computer simulations style tactics of just buying in new players cos they look good on paper. This is the real world and they are real people.

 

The time to judge is after ten games or more and if one or other CB fails to make the grade, we may have the January transfer window to secure an alternative. In the meantime, we hopefully get stronger in defence as they adapt or we simply resort to the Mike Channon philosophy of football- it doesn't matter how many goals you concede, you just get the ball up the other end and knock in one more than the opposition.

 

Not too optimistic for Staurday but I know the players will give 100% as they have done against the two Manchester teams and I know it will be a good day out. Any result there for us will be absolutely fantastic and no less than the team deserve based on their performances so far this season.

[Saint Charlie]

Breaking News: Teves, Ballotelli Scholes and Van Persie are better players than Fox, Fonte and Jos.

 

Honestly, are we really surprised? We have just come up from Div 1 and these players have been absolute rocks for us. They are adapting to life in the Premier League and are finding it tough. It does not make them bad players overnight. They just came up against two of the top teams in the league that we did not expect to get points out of anyway.

 

NA has indicated how tough it is to get top quality defenders to the club but our defence has been improved despite the comments to the contrary. We have Yoshida who appears to be a top quality CB. We have Clyne who was being courted by Manchester United and chose us instead and we have one of the UKs hottest prospects in Luke Shaw promoted to the first team squad. Clyne, in particular, is so good that you start to realise how much of a step up it is for the others. They really need our support right now as they adapt and work on their game. I still have confidence that they can do a good job in the PL. I would rather see us develop the talent that we already have as opposed to the computer simulations style tactics of just buying in new players cos they look good on paper. This is the real world and they are real people.

 

The time to judge is after ten games or more and if one or other CB fails to make the grade, we may have the January transfer window to secure an alternative. In the meantime, we hopefully get stronger in defence as they adapt or we simply resort to the Mike Channon philosophy of football- it doesn't matter how many goals you concede, you just get the ball up the other end and knock in one more than the opposition.

 

Not too optimistic for Staurday but I know the players will give 100% as they have done against the two Manchester teams and I know it will be a good day out. Any result there for us will be absolutely fantastic and no less than the team deserve based on their performances so far this season.

 

Can't argue with most of that.

 

After our performances against United and City I think he have a 'chance' of getting something -I didn't really think this before the start of the season. We have nothing to lose, and I think the key for us is to realise we are best when going forward and causing teams trouble. The moment we sit back too much and invite pressure it is all over for us.

[pingwing]

Theo fitness test after his virus and Sagna back in 2-3 weeks so probs Jenkinson at RB.

 

Jenkinson vs Adam Lallana or Gaston! Can see that being an obvious target for our attack...

[eelpie]

I think we'll win this one.....2-0.

 

Statistically Arse have not conceded a goal yet. Saints have conceded an average of 2.7 goals a game. They have a relatively settled squad. We are probably going to introduce promising new players without much team practice.

 

But I hope you are right.

[georgeweahscousin]

A trip down memory lane for ESPN:-

 

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/blog/_/name/southampton/id/58?cc=5739

[ericb]

A trip down memory lane for ESPN:-

 

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/blog/_/name/southampton/id/58?cc=5739

 

That article made me seriously nostalgic for those days!

[trousers]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/arsenal-vs-saints-preview-364655.aspx

 

Team News

 

New signings Gaston Ramirez and Maya Yoshida could be involved for the first time, whilst fellow recent addition Emmanuel Mayuka will also be pushing for a starting role after coming off the bench against Manchester United.

 

All seven of the players who were away with their respective nations this week should be available for selection. The aforementioned signings were joined by James Ward-Prowse, Nathaniel Clyne, Steven Davis, and Adam Lalllana in being involved at national level in the last week.

 

Danny Fox, who withdrew from the Scottish squad hopes to be fit in time for the trip to North London, whilst midfielder Jack Cork is also close to a return from the ankle injury he suffered in pre-season.

 

The Gunners hope to have Abou Diaby available after the midfielder picked up an injury whilst representing France last week.

 

Theo Walcott missed out on playing for England this week with a virus, so another ex Saint, Alex Chamberlain may well start.

 

Goalkeeper Vito Mannone is likely to make way for returning No.1 Wojciech Szczesny, who has missed the last two games with a rib injury.

 

Summer signings Santi Cazorla, Lukas Podolski, and Olivier Giroud are all likely to continue as part of a new look attacking option for the hosts.

[pingwing]

Some pretty good news in there, Mannone hasn't looked too bad so sticking Szczesny straight back in could play to our advantage.

 

Cork pushing to come back is excellent news as is Fox pushing for fitness for the game.

 

Gaston and Maya should be helpful additions too! Just hope Mayuka can play on the right instead of that silly idea of sticking him in the middle at Lamberts spot.

[itchen_dan]

Jaidi down at the training ground today...

 

@RadhijaidiOff: Check out who just come #SaintsFC http://t.co/bYNbQDOY

 

[Itchen_block4]

Shaw to start according to the echo.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if that happened TBH even if Fox was fully fit. Fox didn't have a good game last time out and could have prevented Man U's first if he closed down Valencia who put the cross in. Let Chamberlain do the same and there's a good chance Giroud or Podolski will get there first - they're top strikers, it's what they do. Makes a mockery of the midfield working so hard if the fullback is letting his man go. Fox is a capable player, but he really needs to be taken to one side and given a proper idea of how to do his job.

 

We've got goals in us and with a decent gameplan to keep the intensity up, we've got a good chance so long as the defence don't do anything really stupid.