Bailey Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Apologies for posting a new thread about this, but wanted to raise a few points: Every team outside the top five would struggle to get more than 3 points from our first four fixtures. Similarly, every defence in the division would struggle to cope with the likes of Aguero, Tevez, Van Persie, Hernandez etc. Let's not get carried away and start being over-critical of the team. We're a young side, relatively inexperienced and the core group of our squad were plying their trade in League One a few seasons ago. Have some perspective. It's inevitable that we're going to make mistakes along the way, but you can bet that those players will learn from it and be better players in the long run. After these four games, if the squad can replicate the quality of performance we saw against City and United, as well as matching the levels of intensity on show, they'll find themselves beating the likes of Aston Villa and Fulham. That's no disrespect to those clubs either. Finally, people always talk about the 'Southampton Way'. Well to me, that means starting slow, everyone writing us off and then coming back to prove the doubters wrong! Ps. Lambert, Schneiderlin, Puncheon, Lallana and Ward-Prowse were sensational yesterday. Exciting times ahead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 If we beat Arsenal can we start it then instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Apologies for posting a new thread about this, but wanted to raise a few points: Every team outside the top five would struggle to get more than 3 points from our first four fixtures. Similarly, every defence in the division would struggle to cope with the likes of Aguero, Tevez, Van Persie, Hernandez etc. Let's not get carried away and start being over-critical of the team. We're a young side, relatively inexperienced and the core group of our squad were plying their trade in League One a few seasons ago. Have some perspective. It's inevitable that we're going to make mistakes along the way, but you can bet that those players will learn from it and be better players in the long run. After these four games, if the squad can replicate the quality of performance we saw against City and United, as well as matching the levels of intensity on show, they'll find themselves beating the likes of Aston Villa and Fulham. That's no disrespect to those clubs either. Finally, people always talk about the 'Southampton Way'. Well to me, that means starting slow, everyone writing us off and then coming back to prove the doubters wrong! Ps. Lambert, Schneiderlin, Puncheon, Lallana and Ward-Prowse were sensational yesterday. Exciting times ahead! Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 if we don't beat villa....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plonko Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Apologies for posting a new thread about this, but wanted to raise a few points: Every team outside the top five would struggle to get more than 3 points from our first four fixtures. Similarly, every defence in the division would struggle to cope with the likes of Aguero, Tevez, Van Persie, Hernandez etc. Let's not get carried away and start being over-critical of the team. We're a young side, relatively inexperienced and the core group of our squad were plying their trade in League One a few seasons ago. Have some perspective. It's inevitable that we're going to make mistakes along the way, but you can bet that those players will learn from it and be better players in the long run. After these four games, if the squad can replicate the quality of performance we saw against City and United, as well as matching the levels of intensity on show, they'll find themselves beating the likes of Aston Villa and Fulham. That's no disrespect to those clubs either. Finally, people always talk about the 'Southampton Way'. Well to me, that means starting slow, everyone writing us off and then coming back to prove the doubters wrong! Ps. Lambert, Schneiderlin, Puncheon, Lallana and Ward-Prowse were sensational yesterday. Exciting times ahead! Totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 The pressure on this match will be absolutely enormous, even at this early stage. Both teams struggling at the start for points, but we're at home and if we put ourselves on the front foot we'll be OK. But the Wigan performance still haunts me, that struck me of the players feeling the ''pressure'' that they had to win it. We didn't get going at all. If we go 5 games without a win, with Everton away next, holy jebus. NA would be hanging by a thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 if we don't beat villa....? Nailed on relegated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Nailed on relegated... not at all..but how long will NC give a no win streak...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 not at all..but how long will NC give a no win streak...? In all seriousness DD I can see him getting plenty of time to get some points on the board. Even NC in a strop can see that we are playing bloody well at times and that its just a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEVMAN Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 And replicate the quality of sundays performance is what we're going to have to do for all our games to be sure of picking up some points,its a tough league and we're just starting off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 In all seriousness DD I can see him getting plenty of time to get some points on the board. Even NC in a strop can see that we are playing bloody well at times and that its just a matter of time. I hope so...really do..but can you imagine heading into mid november and we are hideously low on the points front.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 In all seriousness DD I can see him getting plenty of time to get some points on the board. Even NC in a strop can see that we are playing bloody well at times and that its just a matter of time. I hope you're right. You're correct in what you say. We're playing well, we're scoring goals, we're creating chances. If we weren't doing any of those and still losing it would be a different argument completely. But as long as we stick together, keep to our principles then we will get points on the board sooner rather than later. I still worry about our naivety at this level though, it shows that some players in certain positions have never played at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I hope so...really do..but can you imagine heading into mid november and we are hideously low on the points front.. Stop it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 In all seriousness DD I can see him getting plenty of time to get some points on the board. Even NC in a strop can see that we are playing bloody well at times and that its just a matter of time. Hope so, but you know Italians are hot-headed. NA deserves a season, minimum, no matter what. FWIW, I think we'll be fine. Can see us getting on a roll when we get going, we'll be far too much for a lot of teams to handle, just gotta get the back 5 a bit more stable. Going to win some games 4-3, 5-4 etc I reckon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 If you say so Bailey... Yawn. The rest of us thought the season started two weeks ago and we've already lost three in a row... Did you not realise that these count on the jolly old scoreboard as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Stop it! haha...if Yoshida does not hit the ground running, it is possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 And replicate the quality of sundays performance is what we're going to have to do for all our games to be sure of picking up some points,its a tough league and we're just starting off. This is it, really. Its no good coming up with brave performances against the likes of Man City and Man United and then not being able to replicate that against the lower ranked sides. We were poor against Wigan, and that was the match we really needed a top performance from. NA won't (or shouldn't) be judged on how the team and he peforms against the big sides; his fate will be determined by the results and performances against the sides in the bottom half of the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 not at all..but how long will NC give a no win streak...? I know its been done to death but i do sense something serious flared up with Pardew, and that's why he got sacked! In that interview Yoshida gave, he recalled his conversation with Cortese, where he sold the club to him citing "the togetherness" of the squad. I think this harmony and unity thing in the 'Southampton Way' is being peddled right at the top by Cortese, for that reason I do not think Adkins will go at all this season irrespective of league position. I'll go on record as saying, even if we go down, Cortese will keep him next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I know its been done to death but i do sense something serious flared up with Pardew, and that's why he got sacked! In that interview Yoshida have, he recalled his conversation with Cortese, where he sold the club to him citing "the togetherness" of the squad. I think this harmony and unity thing in the 'Southampton Way' is being peddled right at the top by Cortese, for that reason I do not think Adkins will go at all this season irrespective of league position. I'll go on record as saying, even if we go down, Cortese will keep him next season. you think if we are bottom of the league come december NC will happily lose our place in the prem...with next years TV deal, the outlay on players, the ability to probably attract a very good replacement.. not a chance in hell...and you could not blame him if we are rock bottom come december......it would probably mean we have been bottom, or bottom 3 all season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I hope you're right. You're correct in what you say. We're playing well, we're scoring goals, we're creating chances. If we weren't doing any of those and still losing it would be a different argument completely. But as long as we stick together, keep to our principles then we will get points on the board sooner rather than later. I still worry about our naivety at this level though, it shows that some players in certain positions have never played at this level. The difference is small mistakes/lapses in concerntration, when these are cut out.....hopefully with the emergence of Maya, we'll be fine. FWIW I firmly believe we'll go on a run soon and we'll be loving the ride. We've got a side who are desperate to perform at the highest level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 The difference is small mistakes/lapses in concerntration, when these are cut out.....hopefully with the emergence of Maya, we'll be fine. FWIW I firmly believe we'll go on a run soon and we'll be loving the ride. We've got a side who are desperate to perform at the highest level. Absolutely. That's what's so grating to me. The mistakes and goals we're letting in are so unbelievably avoidable. I'd be gutted if we conceded those sort of goals in L1. We didn't let Man Utd have many chances from open play, so our defensive shape and tactical shape is spot on. But the faults and the negatives are very minor and I'm sure they can be ironed out, possibly with the replacement of a certain player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 If you say so Bailey... Yawn. The rest of us thought the season started two weeks ago and we've already lost three in a row... Did you not realise that these count on the jolly old scoreboard as well? As long as we dont beat Arsenal though, eh?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Absolutely. That's what's so grating to me. The mistakes and goals we're letting in are so unbelievably avoidable. I'd be gutted if we conceded those sort of goals in L1. We didn't let Man Utd have many chances from open play, so our defensive shape and tactical shape is spot on. But the faults and the negatives are very minor and I'm sure they can be ironed out, possibly with the replacement of a certain player. While I'm thinking about it, do we operate zonal marking? It looked like it for RVP's winner. Still got oooooh Robin Van Persie ringing through my ears too ffs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 While I'm thinking about it, do we operate zonal marking? It looked like it for RVP's winner. Still got oooooh Robin Van Persie ringing through my ears too ffs! Yeah, that was a Zonal setup for that goal. I never get that system, it fails every time I've seen a team try it. It was scary to watch RVP just move in from an empty bit of space in the 92nd min. So avoidable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I reckon we will go into this game on 0 points...but 3 points from around 14th place........we have to win it really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Yeah, that was a Zonal setup for that goal. I never get that system, it fails every time I've seen a team try it. It was scary to watch RVP just move in from an empty bit of space in the 92nd min. So avoidable. That always seems like gambling to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 you think if we are bottom of the league come december NC will happily lose our place in the prem...with next years TV deal, the outlay on players, the ability to probably attract a very good replacement.. not a chance in hell...and you could not blame him if we are rock bottom come december......it would probably mean we have been bottom, or bottom 3 all season You seem like you're faith in Adkins is waning Delldays, don't lose sight mate of where we are back and standing as a club. Cortese picked Adkins for a reason, he saw something in him which he valued over the qualities of many different candidates. Trust me, we are in for a special season. Not like those of old, a new dawn... A season in the new 'Southampton Way' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 You seem like you're faith in Adkins is waning Delldays, don't lose sight mate of where we are back and standing as a club. Cortese picked Adkins for a reason, he saw something in him which he valued over the qualities of many different candidates. Trust me, we are in for a special season. Not like those of old, a new dawn... A season in the new 'Southampton Way' Love your positivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Love your positivity. Cheers mate, just don't get all this crying over the milk which hasn't spilt and in likelihood wont either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Cheers mate, just don't get all this crying over the milk which hasn't spilt and in likelihood wont either. Aye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Apologies for posting a new thread about this, but wanted to raise a few points: Every team outside the top five would struggle to get more than 3 points from our first four fixtures. Similarly, every defence in the division would struggle to cope with the likes of Aguero, Tevez, Van Persie, Hernandez etc. Let's not get carried away and start being over-critical of the team. We're a young side, relatively inexperienced and the core group of our squad were plying their trade in League One a few seasons ago. Have some perspective. It's inevitable that we're going to make mistakes along the way, but you can bet that those players will learn from it and be better players in the long run. After these four games, if the squad can replicate the quality of performance we saw against City and United, as well as matching the levels of intensity on show, they'll find themselves beating the likes of Aston Villa and Fulham. That's no disrespect to those clubs either. Finally, people always talk about the 'Southampton Way'. Well to me, that means starting slow, everyone writing us off and then coming back to prove the doubters wrong! Ps. Lambert, Schneiderlin, Puncheon, Lallana and Ward-Prowse were sensational yesterday. Exciting times ahead! Agree there are loads of positives to take from the first few games, but the season started against Man City. Every game and every goal counts, I'm sure Adkins will tell you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La BoIS Saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Stan James have an interesting bet, Ian Atkins still manager of Saints at the end of the season. If we bet "no" do you think we'll get paid out??!! http://bookiesindex.bestbetting.com/football/specials/team-betting/ian-atkins-still-manager-of-southampton-on-the-last-day-of-2012-2013-season/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Our season started the same weekend as everybody else,we just weren't prepared for it. No good making excuses,everybody has to play everybody else at some point during the season and every game is going to be difficult.....if we had man city,Wigan,manu and arsenal the last four games of the season would you say our season ends 4 weeks before everybody else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted 3 September, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2012 If you say so Bailey... Yawn. The rest of us thought the season started two weeks ago and we've already lost three in a row... Did you not realise that these count on the jolly old scoreboard as well? With respect, did you honestly think we'd get anything from City, United and Arsenal when the fixtures were released? I know I didn't. These are very much 'bonus' games, and any points from them should be treated as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I reckon we will go into this game on 0 points...but 3 points from around 14th place........we have to win it really All throughout the summer you were saying how people will start to bottle it as soon as we lose our first few games. Well here we are and do I detect that TDD is one of the first to start wobbling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEVMAN Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 With respect, did you honestly think we'd get anything from City, United and Arsenal when the fixtures were released? I know I didn't. These are very much 'bonus' games, and any points from them should be treated as such. You are probably right but we need to keep our performance level at a similar level for the majority of our games or risk getting out gunned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeySFC Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Apologies for posting a new thread about this, but wanted to raise a few points: Every team outside the top five would struggle to get more than 3 points from our first four fixtures. Similarly, every defence in the division would struggle to cope with the likes of Aguero, Tevez, Van Persie, Hernandez etc. Let's not get carried away and start being over-critical of the team. We're a young side, relatively inexperienced and the core group of our squad were plying their trade in League One a few seasons ago. Have some perspective. It's inevitable that we're going to make mistakes along the way, but you can bet that those players will learn from it and be better players in the long run. After these four games, if the squad can replicate the quality of performance we saw against City and United, as well as matching the levels of intensity on show, they'll find themselves beating the likes of Aston Villa and Fulham. That's no disrespect to those clubs either. Finally, people always talk about the 'Southampton Way'. Well to me, that means starting slow, everyone writing us off and then coming back to prove the doubters wrong! Ps. Lambert, Schneiderlin, Puncheon, Lallana and Ward-Prowse were sensational yesterday. Exciting times ahead! Great post mate, and well said. It would've been a bonus getting any points out of United/City and we should've got a point at least out of Wigan. So early in the season its FAR too early to get worried about anything yet, still 105 points to play for. Spurs, Liverpool, QPR etc. are only 1 point above us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 (edited) You are probably right but we need to keep our performance level at a similar level for the majority of our games or risk getting out gunned. Good pun But yeah, as you say, it's all well and good performing like we do against the Man Utd's, Man City's etc - but if we turn up and produce wigan displays against the teams down near the bottom, then there's something not quite right somewhere. I'm still hoping in my heart of hearts that the Wigan game was a complete blip.....That's the result that's killed the mood...as if we'd have performed as we have against the Manchester Clubs, we'd be 3 points better off and 13 in the league.....but that's how close it is, a couple of results and we will shoot right up there. I think the bottom half will be quite open all year. Edited 3 September, 2012 by S-Clarke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 In our vain search for perspective, lets look at the league table. Yes we are bottom on zero but QPR, Liverpool and Villa have only 1 point each from 3 games. Next up is Reading on 1 point from 2. Like us, Liverpool have played two top 4 teams (ie Mancx2, Chelski or Arsenal)– QPR have played one, Aston Villa none. And the reality is that we are far from cast adrift. There is time to move on up the table, but we need to have made a serious impression by end of October, to be sure. Our next games are Arsenal, Villa, Everton, Fulham, West Ham & Tottenham. If we are still rock bottom after we have played 9 games then, yes, time to start the wrist slitting. But until then we have only one real option; BELIEVE.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I cant believe that people feel the need to find perspective after 3 games. Not as if we've been horribly battered so far and more positives to take than negatives on the whole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeySFC Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I cant believe that people feel the need to find perspective after 3 games. Not as if we've been horribly battered so far and more positives to take than negatives on the whole Exactly. We've hardly been slaughtered 4/5-0 by City and United like most people thought we would. And we hardly got our arse handed to us by Wigan either, the game should've been a draw, Wigan had 2 shots on target and scored both. If by 10 games time we still haven't got a win then I'll start to worry slightly, but we always start slowly, I have faith in Adkins, and the majority of the players (Fonte and Fox aside) lets give it a bloody good go, if we go down, we go down, its not the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 The thing that really concerns me is that against City and United we were not expected to win so we were relaxed and gave it a go but against Wigan where we had a chance to win we appeared to freeze. These games against the bottom teams as people are the important ones so lets hope the team performs well against the lower teams in the forthcoming weeks but we dont seeem to have experienced players to close down the game if required as most of the squad is relatively young and inexperienced So lets hope for the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 The thing that really concerns me is that against City and United we were not expected to win so we were relaxed and gave it a go but against Wigan where we had a chance to win we appeared to freeze. These games against the bottom teams as people are the important ones so lets hope the team performs well against the lower teams in the forthcoming weeks but we dont seeem to have experienced players to close down the game if required as most of the squad is relatively young and inexperienced So lets hope for the best We just didn't play well enough 2nd half against Wigan. The goal changed the game and our switch to a more attacking formation only played into their hands. Mainly because our attacking personnel that day wasn't up to it. We have much better options now though. I think we'll do well given some time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I think Oct/Nov are the key months now we need to get a fair number of points by the end of Nov Southampton V Fulham Sun 7 Oct West Ham V Southampton Sat 20 Oct Southampton V Tottenham Sun 28 Oct West Brom V Southampton Mon 5 Nov Southampton V Swansea Sat 10 Nov QPR V Southampton Sat 17 Nov Southampton V Newcastle Sat 24 Nov Southampton V Norwich Wed 28 Nov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ron fan Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I hope you're right. You're correct in what you say. We're playing well, we're scoring goals, we're creating chances. If we weren't doing any of those and still losing it would be a different argument completely.But as long as we stick together, keep to our principles then we will get points on the board sooner rather than later. I still worry about our naivety at this level though, it shows that some players in certain positions have never played at this level. Trouble is, as I said on another thread, probably 6 of the goals we have conceded have coming from really, really poor defending, rather than brilliant play from the opposition. Both City and United on another day might have buried several other chances. Despite the good play elsewhere in the side, without a vast improvement in defence we will really struggle. By the way, I've spent most of the summer thinking we would surprise a lot of people and finish pretty high in the table, but that had been on the assumption that we'd get in a good quality central defender, left-back and keeper. We definitely haven'y got the left-back or the keeper (Gazza appearing to be one for the future) and we're still waiting to see how our new centre-back shapes up (although, having seen him at Wembley in the Olympic semi-final, he gives me hope). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 4 September, 2012 Share Posted 4 September, 2012 heard on radio this morning talk of our hard start. think they said that last season finished with the three top current form teams.... man city man united wigan. very very early days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 4 September, 2012 Share Posted 4 September, 2012 After very nearly getting points v Utd and City, there's no reason to be too defeatist about Arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 4 September, 2012 Share Posted 4 September, 2012 After very nearly getting points v Utd and City, there's no reason to be too defeatist about Arsenal. I agree. We shouldn't discard our chances against the weakest Arsenal side in many seasons. Yes, they got a fine win against Liverpool, but they've played some very mediocre football this season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 4 September, 2012 Share Posted 4 September, 2012 The difference is small mistakes/lapses in concerntration, when these are cut out.....we'll be fine. The point is that IS the difference. Whether we do cut those little errors out or not is precisely the line we're walking between Prem and otherwise. It's making them against the likes of Wigan that's really going to cost us, they're just as likely to punish us as any other bottom half Prem side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 4 September, 2012 Share Posted 4 September, 2012 After very nearly getting points v Utd and City, there's no reason to be too defeatist about Arsenal. How about being bereft of ideas and losing at home to Wigan ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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