Our fans and the 'Southampton Way'

[Crazy Diamond]

I came away from the game in high spirits yesterday. It was a thoroughly entertaining game, we played well and it was another performance I can say I was proud of.

 

There were too many individual errors which ultimately cost us, but it happens. I cannot go on saying forever though how pleased I am when there are no points on the board.

 

But the ‘Southampton Way’ won’t be an overnight success story. Unfortunately, that hasn't really got through to all of us, clearly. It’s a certain way of playing – the passing movements, the retention of the ball, all of that. But...

 

When the ball is with one of our defenders, being passed around at the back, retaining possession, I am hearing a lot of 'GET RID OF IT!' or 'WHAT ARE YOU DOING? CLEAR IT' - the latter is interesting, particularly when it's said when there's no pressure on us and it is immediately obvious we want to keep the ball and build from the back.

 

‘GET IT TO LAMBERT!’ Whilst Lambert was one of the standout performers, it’s not quite right to ask that Danny Fox, whenever he has the ball, is to smash it 40 yards to Lambert’s head.

 

'SHOOT!' is another good one. Asking, or rather telling, one of our defenders to shoot from 30 yards out when there are better options is an interesting concept.

 

‘DAVIS IS ****ING USELESS.’ Ah yes. The goalkeeper that has been in two successful sides that have won promotion, who has saved two penalties from the two he has faced this season, the man who has been one of the club’s most consistent performers in the last four years. He’s ****ing useless. Whilst he cannot be considered faultless, if he is deemed unworthy of this level of competition after three games, it is perhaps rather harsh. Also having a go at him for (successfully) passing to Clyne and then build from there, rather than launching it, is wrong.

 

I lost count of the amount of times the people behind me were shouting 'BREAK HIS LEGS!' each time one of our players was trying to dispossess the opposition. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say it was 90% of the time United had the ball. That was annoying, and some might disagree, but it's perhaps unsporting to encourage one professional footballer to actually inflict injury on another. There'll be different opinions on that one, inevitably.

 

It occurs to me that this planned 'Southampton Way' will never wash with quite a few people, simply because they believe they know better, or are dim-witted.

 

May I also add that a number of people around me were bragging about owning a season ticket and criticised the crowd for only being there for the big games, but booed Guly before he’d touched the ball and left before full time (oh, they were also taking part in the ****-taking when it came to where United fans come from.) Exemplary support. Truly.

 

As was ‘I ****ing hate losing to United. I really do. More than Portsmouth. There’s this bloke on my road, I think I’ll go and brick his window. I ****ing hate United.’

 

I hope their knuckles weren’t too scuffed from dragging them on the ground on their way home.

 

Thoughts?

[sfc4prem]

The Guly boo-ers should have their vocal chords removed forcibly by Guly himself.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I came away from the game in high spirits yesterday. It was a thoroughly entertaining game, we played well and it was another performance I can say I was proud of.

 

There were too many individual errors which ultimately cost us, but it happens. I cannot go on saying forever though how pleased I am when there are no points on the board.

 

But the ‘Southampton Way’ won’t be an overnight success story. Unfortunately, that hasn't really got through to all of us, clearly. It’s a certain way of playing – the passing movements, the retention of the ball, all of that. But...

 

When the ball is with one of our defenders, being passed around at the back, retaining possession, I am hearing a lot of 'GET RID OF IT!' or 'WHAT ARE YOU DOING? CLEAR IT' - the latter is interesting, particularly when it's said when there's no pressure on us and it is immediately obvious we want to keep the ball and build from the back.

 

‘GET IT TO LAMBERT!’ Whilst Lambert was one of the standout performers, it’s not quite right to ask that Danny Fox, whenever he has the ball, is to smash it 40 yards to Lambert’s head.

 

'SHOOT!' is another good one. Asking, or rather telling, one of our defenders to shoot from 30 yards out when there are better options is an interesting concept.

 

‘DAVIS IS ****ING USELESS.’ Ah yes. The goalkeeper that has been in two successful sides that have won promotion, who has saved two penalties from the two he has faced this season, the man who has been one of the club’s most consistent performers in the last four years. He’s ****ing useless. Whilst he cannot be considered faultless, if he is deemed unworthy of this level of competition after three games, it is perhaps rather harsh. Also having a go at him for (successfully) passing to Clyne and then build from there, rather than launching it, is wrong.

 

I lost count of the amount of times the people behind me were shouting 'BREAK HIS LEGS!' each time one of our players was trying to dispossess the opposition. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say it was 90% of the time United had the ball. That was annoying, and some might disagree, but it's perhaps unsporting to encourage one professional footballer to actually inflict injury on another. There'll be different opinions on that one, inevitably.

 

It occurs to me that this planned 'Southampton Way' will never wash with quite a few people, simply because they believe they know better, or are dim-witted.

May I also add that a number of people around me were bragging about owning a season ticket and criticised the crowd for only being there for the big games, but booed Guly before he’d touched the ball and left before full time (oh, they were also taking part in the ****-taking when it came to where United fans come from.) Exemplary support. Truly.

 

As was ‘I ****ing hate losing to United. I really do. More than Portsmouth. There’s this bloke on my road, I think I’ll go and brick his window. I ****ing hate United.’

 

I hope their knuckles weren’t too scuffed from dragging them on the ground on their way home.

 

Thoughts?

 

The highlighted line is very accurate..

Anyone that boos one of their own players are stupid..

[Crazy Diamond]

The Guly boo-ers should have their vocal chords removed forcibly by Guly himself.

 

I think when it comes to Guly, it should be remembered that Nigel has said it will be dealt with internally. Let the Club do it - booing won't change a thing and won't exactly inspire him either. There were some quite strong words about it by Nigel in the programme too.

 

I've never been the guy's biggest fan because of things I've seen him do on the pitch. The stuff off the pitch is plain unacceptable but it is being dealt with.

[alpine_saint]

The problem with the "Southampton Way" is that if it takes too long to get off the ground, we are facing NPC football again next year and probably such a significant personnel change, as the better players find other clubs for PL football, that we face starting it again with a new set of players.

 

I remember back in the summer of 2005 really willing the players to give us until Xmas to show signs of getting back to the PL, only for a massive exodus to be started by Kevin Phillips, the c**t.

 

I personally think small deliberate steps are better than a big unfocused leap

[Saint_clark]

It was amazing how many times people around me shouted "get rid of it!" when our defenders were on the ball and not even under any pressure.

[pingwing]

Well put.

 

I don't think it will ever wash with some people that the Southampton way will make us one of the best in the league, on reflection it is annoying we lost yesterday but because we could of and should of won, against Manchester United! (who are the most successful team since the creation of the premier league in the prem and lost the title last year on goal difference). That feeling wouldn't happen with other newly promoted teams.

 

It is weird but an exciting feeling that we are, above all else, trying to do it right, we are here to win games, so listening to the "just play it safe and come 17th attitude" of some fans is almost depressing.

[alpine_saint]

It was amazing how many times people around me shouted "get rid of it!" when our defenders were on the ball and not even under any pressure.

 

Yeah well that is the English game, and the greatest exponents of that are the England team, composed of players who have played at league level with players from around Europe and the world who are supposed to know a thing or two about posession.

 

Not a Southampton disease, imo.

[positivepete]

Too many Saturday and Sunday pub league footballers and Tyro league managers in the crowd by the sound of it! (with due apologies to those few Tyro managers that do actually encourage their teams to pass the ball rather than hoof it)

[Crazy Diamond]

It was amazing how many times people around me shouted "get rid of it!" when our defenders were on the ball and not even under any pressure.

 

Wasn't it just?

 

There's also this notion that our players can do no wrong. A throw in that was obviously out of play after touching one of our players was contested with screams of abuse at the referee and linesman. Then there was Hooiveld - I wasn't sure if it was a penalty because he got the ball, but it was two footed and from behind, so it has to be a foul - which in the area is obviously a penalty. To look over and see a grown man wrestling stewards to get onto the pitch in order to 'protest' is a bit much.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Our players can do no wrong - but do this, shoot from there, because you're doing it wrong at the moment.

[Frank's cousin]

Guess it depends on your perspective of whats most important to you - win at all costs, or try and entertain and most would say they are somewhere in the middle of that spectrum, afterall it is a game, and should be exciting and interesting to watch, or what is the point? Win at all costs attitudes bring to mind those whose egos are somehow massaged by their sides victories - the cahnace of one up manship over others - which I never quite get - its not as if as a fan they had anything to do with it...

 

Being a supporter is obviously far easier when you win - or support a side that is simply never going to be threatened with things like relegation and only whether you will get to the CL final this year or not... and football is a game in which you can get nothing depsite being the 'better' side, dominating and entertaining - but whilst w ekeep getting told that you cant be a good side or a memorable one unless you win things, There will always be those for whom doing whatever is necessary is more important...

 

Some will argue that for all Barca or Bayerns better football - they left teh CL with nothing and Chelski were 'Brave' and determined and did what was necessary tactically to win - All vry rue and if you support Chelsea then I daresay you did not care how you played, but will anyone really remember that side? Will anyone really look back at them and say they were a classic team? far more folk look back in awe over Holland 74, than the 'functional' Germans, and they may not have the medal, but they more intwined with footballing fokelore than the winners and sometimes that is what it shoudl be all about.

 

I like the way we try and play, I love the fact that we want to entertain - and if that is naive , so be it - lessons learned will improve the results, but if staying up were only possible by a more 'pragmatic' approach, I would struggle to see the value in watching us to be honest - when you have seen what we can do and are aspiring to do, adopting a more agreesive, in your face typical underdog style would bore me senseless no matter how successful we were... I appreciate others will see it differently.

[Saint_clark]

Wasn't it just?

 

There's also this notion that our players can do no wrong. A throw in that was obviously out of play after touching one of our players was contested with screams of abuse at the referee and linesman. Then there was Hooiveld - I wasn't sure if it was a penalty because he got the ball, but it was two footed and from behind, so it has to be a foul - which in the area is obviously a penalty. To look over and see a grown man wrestling stewards to get onto the pitch in order to 'protest' is a bit much.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Our players can do no wrong - but do this, shoot from there, because you're doing it wrong at the moment.

 

Regarding the Hooiveld penalty (without turning this into a match debate) it p*ssed me off that it was given purely because Lescott did exactly the same thing on Rodriguez when we played at the Etihad a couple of weeks ago, but hey ho.

 

As far as the do no wrong attitude, it only applies to certain players. Watch Guly, Hammond or Fox get slated next time they make a "debatable" mistake.

[Crazy Diamond]

Regarding the Hooiveld penalty (without turning this into a match debate) it p*ssed me off that it was given purely because Lescott did exactly the same thing on Rodriguez when we played at the Etihad a couple of weeks ago, but hey ho.

 

As far as the do no wrong attitude, it only applies to certain players. Watch Guly, Hammond or Fox get slated next time they make a "debatable" mistake.

 

Yeah I mean I won't deny I was annoyed to begin with, chiefly because it took a second or two for it to be given when really if it's that clear cut the whistle goes immediately, but trying to get on the pitch? Really? I was lambasted for my thoughts on the fans that got on the pitch when Billy Sharp put us 2 - 1 up against the blue few, but it's the same thing to me - you're a grown man or woman and you've that little control over your actions, despite all the things in between? (Getting out of your seat, down from your row, battling stewards, over the perimeter advertising, onto the pitch)

 

Guess it depends on your perspective of whats most important to you - win at all costs, or try and entertain and most would say they are somewhere in the middle of that spectrum, afterall it is a game, and should be exciting and interesting to watch, or what is the point? Win at all costs attitudes bring to mind those whose egos are somehow massaged by their sides victories - the cahnace of one up manship over others - which I never quite get - its not as if as a fan they had anything to do with it...

 

Being a supporter is obviously far easier when you win - or support a side that is simply never going to be threatened with things like relegation and only whether you will get to the CL final this year or not... and football is a game in which you can get nothing depsite being the 'better' side, dominating and entertaining - but whilst w ekeep getting told that you cant be a good side or a memorable one unless you win things, There will always be those for whom doing whatever is necessary is more important...

 

Some will argue that for all Barca or Bayerns better football - they left teh CL with nothing and Chelski were 'Brave' and determined and did what was necessary tactically to win - All vry rue and if you support Chelsea then I daresay you did not care how you played, but will anyone really remember that side? Will anyone really look back at them and say they were a classic team? far more folk look back in awe over Holland 74, than the 'functional' Germans, and they may not have the medal, but they more intwined with footballing fokelore than the winners and sometimes that is what it shoudl be all about.

 

I like the way we try and play, I love the fact that we want to entertain - and if that is naive , so be it - lessons learned will improve the results, but if staying up were only possible by a more 'pragmatic' approach, I would struggle to see the value in watching us to be honest - when you have seen what we can do and are aspiring to do, adopting a more agreesive, in your face typical underdog style would bore me senseless no matter how successful we were... I appreciate others will see it differently.

 

These are all very good points.

[Alanh]

The problem with the "Southampton Way" is that if it takes too long to get off the ground, we are facing NPC football again next year and probably such a significant personnel change, as the better players find other clubs for PL football, that we face starting it again with a new set of players.

 

I remember back in the summer of 2005 really willing the players to give us until Xmas to show signs of getting back to the PL, only for a massive exodus to be started by Kevin Phillips, the c**t.

 

I personally think small deliberate steps are better than a big unfocused leap

The @Southampton Way' isn't new this season. We are implementing the same passing and moving, possession style of football that we have done since Adkins arrived. The formation is a slight variation on last season and some players are getting used to their differing responsibilities but we still look like the Southampton of last year when we get on the ball and knock it around so I don't see the 'big unfocussed leap' that you are referring to.

 

You're right about the possibility of losing players if we go down, but we could also lose players if we / they are successful as Swansea have found out with Allen and Sinclair.

[alpine_saint]

The @Southampton Way' isn't new this season. We are implementing the same passing and moving, possession style of football that we have done since Adkins arrived. The formation is a slight variation on last season and some players are getting used to their differing responsibilities but we still look like the Southampton of last year when we get on the ball and knock it around so I don't see the 'big unfocussed leap' that you are referring to.

 

You're right about the possibility of losing players if we go down, but we could also lose players if we / they are successful as Swansea have found out with Allen and Sinclair.

 

Did the player quality last season really permit it to be implemented properly ? This is why I view it as starting now.

 

Of course if we are relegated not only will the players change, but the quality will go down, making it even harder to re-start.

[Saint_clark]

Did the player quality last season really permit it to be implemented properly ? This is why I view it as starting now.

 

Of course if we are relegated not only will the players change, but the quality will go down, making it even harder to re-start.

 

Aside from Ramirez I honestly don't think we'd lose anybody we didn't want to.

[alpine_saint]

Aside from Ramirez I honestly don't think we'd lose anybody we didn't want to.

 

Thats very optimistic.

 

You dont think the likes of Morgan, Rickie, and Adam having tasted the big time, will be keen to continue cutting their teeth in the PL ? Or do you think by then we will want rid of them ?

[Saint_clark]

Thats very optimistic.

 

You dont think the likes of Morgan, Rickie, and Adam having tasted the big time, will be keen to continue cutting their teeth in the PL ? Or do you think by then we will want rid of them ?

 

I think they will give us till the january window and see how things are going then. Unlike in '05 when we were full of unprofessional mercenaries, these players have proven their loyalty and commitment to the cause.

However this is all just speculation until we find out if we're actually relegated or not. I'm still confident of staying up.

[alpine_saint]

I think they will give us till the january window and see how things are going then. Unlike in '05 when we were full of unprofessional mercenaries, these players have proven their loyalty and commitment to the cause.

However this is all just speculation until we find out if we're actually relegated or not. I'm still confident of staying up.

 

FWIW I am too, but it wont take too many more rounds of null point before I start having my doubts.

 

Anyhoo, I fancy us to upset L'Arse.

[doddisalegend]

I came away from the game in high spirits yesterday. It was a thoroughly entertaining game, we played well and it was another performance I can say I was proud of.

 

There were too many individual errors which ultimately cost us, but it happens. I cannot go on saying forever though how pleased I am when there are no points on the board.

 

But the ‘Southampton Way’ won’t be an overnight success story. Unfortunately, that hasn't really got through to all of us, clearly. It’s a certain way of playing – the passing movements, the retention of the ball, all of that. But...

 

When the ball is with one of our defenders, being passed around at the back, retaining possession, I am hearing a lot of 'GET RID OF IT!' or 'WHAT ARE YOU DOING? CLEAR IT' - the latter is interesting, particularly when it's said when there's no pressure on us and it is immediately obvious we want to keep the ball and build from the back.‘GET IT TO LAMBERT!’ Whilst Lambert was one of the standout performers, it’s not quite right to ask that Danny Fox, whenever he has the ball, is to smash it 40 yards to Lambert’s head.

 

'SHOOT!' is another good one. Asking, or rather telling, one of our defenders to shoot from 30 yards out when there are better options is an interesting concept.

 

‘DAVIS IS ****ING USELESS.’ Ah yes. The goalkeeper that has been in two successful sides that have won promotion, who has saved two penalties from the two he has faced this season, the man who has been one of the club’s most consistent performers in the last four years. He’s ****ing useless. Whilst he cannot be considered faultless, if he is deemed unworthy of this level of competition after three games, it is perhaps rather harsh. Also having a go at him for (successfully) passing to Clyne and then build from there, rather than launching it, is wrong.

 

I lost count of the amount of times the people behind me were shouting 'BREAK HIS LEGS!' each time one of our players was trying to dispossess the opposition. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say it was 90% of the time United had the ball. That was annoying, and some might disagree, but it's perhaps unsporting to encourage one professional footballer to actually inflict injury on another. There'll be different opinions on that one, inevitably.

 

It occurs to me that this planned 'Southampton Way' will never wash with quite a few people, simply because they believe they know better, or are dim-witted.

 

May I also add that a number of people around me were bragging about owning a season ticket and criticised the crowd for only being there for the big games, but booed Guly before he’d touched the ball and left before full time (oh, they were also taking part in the ****-taking when it came to where United fans come from.) Exemplary support. Truly.

 

As was ‘I ****ing hate losing to United. I really do. More than Portsmouth. There’s this bloke on my road, I think I’ll go and brick his window. I ****ing hate United.’

 

I hope their knuckles weren’t too scuffed from dragging them on the ground on their way home.

 

Thoughts?

 

Better ask whispering Dave on Solent about that one he keeps pointing out that our players tend to try and play out from the back even when it's not on hence a couple of heart in the mouth moments yesterday when Kelvin played shocking balls out to defenders.....something he did a few times last season to. Playing out from the back is preferable but not always the best option.

[Whitey Grandad]

Better ask whispering Dave on Solent about that one he keeps pointing out that our players tend to try and play out from the back even when it's not on hence a couple of heart in the mouth moments yesterday when Kelvin played shocking balls out to defenders.....something he did a few times last season to. Playing out from the back is preferable but not always the best option.

Sometimes it may not be pretty but lumping it up to Lambert can be very effective.

[doddisalegend]

Sometimes it may not be pretty but lumping it up to Lambert can be very effective.

 

Exactley I'd rather we had 3 or 4 Southampton ways TBH ideally taliored to the opposition at hand...

[Lord Duckhunter]

When Lambert pulled to the left during one move the bloke behind me shouted "what are you doing out there, get in the middle lambert". Within a few seconds he crossed the ball for MS to head home.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I'm pleased to see that the OP left St Marys yesterday in high spirits - judging from the look on many other of our fans faces I'm sure he's not the only one to share in that reaction. I on the other hand left the Chapel feeling like I'd just been kicked in the balls by Roberto Carlos

 

A great game of football for sure, and a privilege to watch so many good/great footballers (from both teams) perform so very well. But I'm constitutionally incapable of experiencing any real enjoyment after a match when I've just watched my team get beat. That my not be the 'Southampton Way' - whatever that is - but it is my way I'm sorry to say.

[Crazy Diamond]

Better ask whispering Dave on Solent about that one he keeps pointing out that our players tend to try and play out from the back even when it's not on hence a couple of heart in the mouth moments yesterday when Kelvin played shocking balls out to defenders.....something he did a few times last season to. Playing out from the back is preferable but not always the best option.

 

I agree, it is not always the best option. But to hear even when it's a decent option and looks as if it can work, 'GET RID OF IT', that's a bit stupid to me. Just because our defence has the ball it doesn't mean it needs to be automatically launched forward.

 

I'm pleased to see that the OP left St Marys yesterday in high spirits - judging from the look on many other of our fans faces I'm sure he's not the only one to share in that reaction. I on the other hand left the Chapel feeling like I'd just been kicked in the balls by Roberto Carlos

 

A great game of football for sure, and a privilege to watch so many good/great footballers (from both teams) perform so very well. But I'm constitutionally incapable of experiencing any real enjoyment after a match when I've just watched my team get beat. That my not be the 'Southampton Way' - whatever that is - but it is my way I'm sorry to say.

 

To be honest, the more I think about it, the less positive I become. As I say, I've twice now commented on how proud I am of the team - but there aren't any points on the board. That cannot continue.

 

As for the Southampton Way, I suppose I'm not trying to make a case for it, but use it to contrast with what I see as some very silly things being said around me.

[pingwing]

When Lambert pulled to the left during one move the bloke behind me shouted "what are you doing out there, get in the middle lambert". Within a few seconds he crossed the ball for MS to head home.

 

Little moments like that are what make going to football magical.

[Frank's cousin]

I'm pleased to see that the OP left St Marys yesterday in high spirits - judging from the look on many other of our fans faces I'm sure he's not the only one to share in that reaction. I on the other hand left the Chapel feeling like I'd just been kicked in the balls by Roberto Carlos

 

A great game of football for sure, and a privilege to watch so many good/great footballers (from both teams) perform so very well. But I'm constitutionally incapable of experiencing any real enjoyment after a match when I've just watched my team get beat. That my not be the 'Southampton Way' - whatever that is - but it is my way I'm sorry to say.

 

I think we are more upbeat about defeat than is 'normal' because we proved we can compete - rather than be cannon fodder which was probably a concern many had - not only did we compete but we could have and some will argue should have won - which from apositive perspective suggests we have a good side in the making (defensive frailtoies aside) - and that is based on the fact we have just come up and in that starting side yesterday Clyne and WP, Davis were the only additions form last year in the NPC - which on paper.... etc

 

But this will rightly wear off after a while if points dont start accumulating and I am not advocating we should be happy merely playing nice football if it means defeat after defeat - all I was saying was that we should not give up on what we are doing merely to try and get points - if we are not good enough so be it - I can cope with being beaten by a better side - we try and improve the quality of the squad but stick to our style - if we can afford the better quality necessary to allow us to play that way and win - brilliant, but becoming more pragmatic and ending up as a lower table side for eternity is well... a bit like us right now...pointless at the end of the day. I guess I am saying that I will always be prouder of our club for its values and the way it trys to play football, than the simply the being able to survive through pragmatism. I know thats not a very popular view, but the years in L1 and the NPC demonstrated that being a prem side, but making up the numbers and surviving through constant 'battles' and hoof and hump, is far less satisfying that watching us pass, attack and score 85 odd goals.Guess we wil see what happens.

[MatthewStiles]

The silver lining is that shouts of "get rid" are very unlikely to be made out by players. AFAIK, they rarely hear what the manager says on the touchline let alone what someone in row Z might be shouting. However, I agree that it is annoying when you get these cretinous shouts. A big thing in the 90's was a shout aimed at Jim Magilton (one of our best ball players by the way). When he played a sideways ball the cry went up "forward Magilton" no matter if it meant finding a player in a better position to take the ball on or if it meant avoiding losing possession. I doubt that Xavi Hernandez ever got similar treatment from the Barcelona crowd.

Ironically we chanted at West Ham "You used to play football" last season.

[Liquidshokk]

Cortese has said before that it doesn't matter who leaves, they will always be replaced by someone equal if not better.

 

We've got to the prem early in terms of the plan. Players bought into it and could still be playing in Championship\L1 as part of that plan so don't think leaving would be a quick decision

 

Thats very optimistic.

 

You dont think the likes of Morgan, Rickie, and Adam having tasted the big time, will be keen to continue cutting their teeth in the PL ? Or do you think by then we will want rid of them ?

 

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

[Minty]

A big thing in the 90's was a shout aimed at Jim Magilton (one of our best ball players by the way). When he played a sideways ball the cry went up "forward Magilton" no matter if it meant finding a player in a better position to take the ball on or if it meant avoiding losing possession.

 

Uh-oh, that's opened a can of worms. I agree entirely with you, Magilton was a footballer, and always looked for a pass and to keep possession. Unfortunately he was surrounded by people who didn't want to ball or who didn't want to move to get the ball, and fans who had no appreciation for possession.

 

The longer we have the ball, the less the opposition can hurt us. Really quite simple.

[derry]

For all the passing football from both sides 5 crosses provided the goals. In the first half one of the best attacks was a steeple high up and under clearance from Fonte that Lambert caused the centrebacks all sorts of trouble. Also our first goal was a break as were the two at MC. The passing around from both sides provided little of substance. This just goes to show that we have to play it all ways not just pass.

[Thedelldays]

the people leaving at 2-2 clearly do understand the southampton way

[Minty]

For all the passing football from both sides 5 crosses provided the goals. In the first half one of the best attacks was a steeple high up and under clearance from Fonte that Lambert caused the centrebacks all sorts of trouble. Also our first goal was a break as were the two at MC. The passing around from both sides provided little of substance. This just goes to show that we have to play it all ways not just pass.

 

Absolutely. But possession of the ball means the opposition can't score, so it's just as important an element of our defence as any individual player is.

[CanadaSaint]

Absolutely. But possession of the ball means the opposition can't score, so it's just as important an element of our defence as any individual player is.

 

It also pulls opposing defensive (including midfield) formations apart, which ends up creating the space for the eventual (hopefully!) scoring opportunity.

 

And that's apart from the fact that it can be great to watch, and the fact that it can give rise to the kind of superlatives many media types used to describe our play yesterday.

 

Sure, we lost yesterday, but I felt much better about that loss than I've felt after some of our wins - and I'm a really bad loser.

[derry]

Absolutely. But possession of the ball means the opposition can't score, so it's just as important an element of our defence as any individual player is.

 

Agreed but slow motion inviting pressure in our own half with individuals making howlers isn't going to work. I felt that Utd were very uncomfortable with the high ball coming down but pressed our attempts at possession well. I also think throwins are a weakness and until we are going well I would like to see us reinforce the touchline and chuck it long up the line looking for the defender to give another throwin away. At the moment, usually there is only one inside option that comes short and is immediately challenged, we regularly concede possession.

[Minty]

While I understand your concerns, I think we should be continuing to work on improving any methods of keeping possession rather than deliberately seeking out 'percentage' balls or throw-ins. In the final third is different, as you rightly highlighted, decent balls into the box can cause problems, but elsewhere on the pitch, whenever possible, I think we should look to keep possession. It doesn't matter who the opposition is, if you move the ball quickly and accurately, no one will take it off you, and I would expect us to practice, practice, practice as a result. It's the only way to reduce the 'howlers'.

 

So yes, I agree we need to work on things like throw-ins (we should never stop) but we should not use any perceived failures at present as an excuse to take what is (in my view) a backward tactical step.

[Graffito]

Agreed but slow motion inviting pressure in our own half with individuals making howlers isn't going to work. I felt that Utd were very uncomfortable with the high ball coming down but pressed our attempts at possession well. I also think throwins are a weakness and until we are going well I would like to see us reinforce the touchline and chuck it long up the line looking for the defender to give another throwin away. At the moment, usually there is only one inside option that comes short and is immediately challenged, we regularly concede possession.

 

No way we should be employing rugby tactics in a team that aspires to play a passing game.

[Giordano]

Agreed but slow motion inviting pressure in our own half with individuals making howlers isn't going to work. I felt that Utd were very uncomfortable with the high ball coming down but pressed our attempts at possession well. I also think throwins are a weakness and until we are going well I would like to see us reinforce the touchline and chuck it long up the line looking for the defender to give another throwin away. At the moment, usually there is only one inside option that comes short and is immediately challenged, we regularly concede possession.

 

Derry/Minty, I think what we have here at Saints is a case of positive discrimination. I know its not really such a good thing in life generally but we are trying to break the iron grip that the typical english style of football, and especially the fast paced EPL style has on our game, some players in some teams, some managers and our youth development. If KD rolling the ball out to the full back causes us problems then we just have to force ourselves to be better at passing- NOT revert to long balls down the line or up and unders because we cannot cope with "pressing". I know that we do not have the luxury of a guaranteed place in the EPL and the price of boldness is relegation and I also know that we must not be blind to tactical plays that will win us games ( such as booting it long to Rickie to hold up or long throw ins down the line to advance territory) but those ought to be the options NOT the default, and until our players know instinctively to pass and move pass and move we should persevere. Might take a few generations but thats why i think we need to positively discriminate in our approach to how we play- precisely to counteract decades of the opposite that has slipped into our consciousness.

[derry]

No way we should be employing rugby tactics in a team that aspires to play a passing game.

 

We have caused ourselves problems at throwins especially late in games because not enough players are showing for the ball. Most are just standing watching and usually only one comes for the ball and puts it back to the thrower and invariably we lose possession. What I am talking about is moving the play forward then playing the passing game. A means to an end.

[derry]

Derry/Minty, I think what we have here at Saints is a case of positive discrimination. I know its not really such a good thing in life generally but we are trying to break the iron grip that the typical english style of football, and especially the fast paced EPL style has on our game, some players in some teams, some managers and our youth development. If KD rolling the ball out to the full back causes us problems then we just have to force ourselves to be better at passing- NOT revert to long balls down the line or up and unders because we cannot cope with "pressing". I know that we do not have the luxury of a guaranteed place in the EPL and the price of boldness is relegation and I also know that we must not be blind to tactical plays that will win us games ( such as booting it long to Rickie to hold up or long throw ins down the line to advance territory) but those ought to be the options NOT the default, and until our players know instinctively to pass and move pass and move we should persevere. Might take a few generations but thats why i think we need to positively discriminate in our approach to how we play- precisely to counteract decades of the opposite that has slipped into our consciousness.

 

It is great to have the luxury to play like Barcelona but it is evolution not revolution. It is no good trying to get players to exceed their abilities against in the main, certainly this year much more experienced and accomplished players. The only target this year is to stay up whatever it takes. It will take more additions of the right players to get this team to the level where passing is 90% of it's game. Until then we have to adapt and get enough points to give us another season to evolve some more.

[Graffito]

We have caused ourselves problems at throwins especially late in games because not enough players are showing for the ball. Most are just standing watching and usually only one comes for the ball and puts it back to the thrower and invariably we lose possession. What I am talking about is moving the play forward then playing the passing game. A means to an end.

 

There have been occasions where that's happened but I think the answer's in what you have said here - players to show for the ball quicker. I'd add to that, speeding up the whole process. Remember how Reading under Coppell stole a march on us a few seasons back by instructing the ball boys to recycle the ball quickly to their players but at snail's pace to Saints' players?

[mulletsaint]

Yeah well that is the English game, and the greatest exponents of that are the England team, composed of players who have played at league level with players from around Europe and the world who are supposed to know a thing or two about posession.

 

Not a Southampton disease, imo.

 

Spot on. Unfortunately this is a problem right through English football. At grass roots kids are pilloried for trying to play out from the back because it leads to mistakes. Then you have the England manager coming out this week and dissing those who point out our problems retaining possession.

 

Did the player quality last season really permit it to be implemented properly ? This is why I view it as starting now.

 

Of course if we are relegated not only will the players change, but the quality will go down, making it even harder to re-start.

 

I think this is rather blinkered. We played some great passing football last year in the Championship and many of those players are still central to our plans. Yes we'll lose players but I dare say we'll bring in others who fit the style. There are plenty of proper footballers at that level too.

 

Aside from Ramirez I honestly don't think we'd lose anybody we didn't want to.

 

Kinda naive I think. If we go down I think we'll struggle to keep hold of Lallana, lambert, Morgan, Puncheon, JWP, Lee, Mayuka and Yoshida to name but a few. JWP, Lallana and Lambert may stay if they're happy and the former has time on his side so may not be in a rush to move on but it'll be tricky keeping them. If lambert continues to score at this level he'll want at least another season at the highest level before retiring. Lallana will have given us enough and is too good for the championship. Puncheon won't want to drop back down and the others are all internationals or have international ambitions that won't be served by dropping back down.

[badgerx16]

Anyone that boos one of their own players are stupid..

 

Wouldn't happen at Fartton Krap

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Without the merest hint of hyperbole I sit next to a fellow ST holder for whom the mere act of watching the Saints play is akin to a form of torture. Every game - whether we are winning or not - he will constantly rage at the players every time we lose possession, but slate them when they pass it sideways. Neither our attacking, or especially our defending, is ever good enough. Every pass must reach the intended target and every shot hit the back of the net or he will start to fall into a rage. How we achieved two successive promotions is a utter mystery to him. The only why I can see him ever being happy is if our play does start to resemble Barcelona on a good day.

 

In short he is probably the most dissatisfied and ear achingly negative bloke you could ever meet. Despite all that however it I'll never move my seat because I've come to understand that he can't help being that way and he does genuinely care about this wonderful old football club more than the hordes of Johnney-come-lately fans that fill St Marys every time MUFC visit ever will.

 

The next time you hear someone shouting something stupid at a football match (presuming it's not me) I say chill out and cut them some slack, because however ignorant/wrong/out of touch they may be regarding the finer points of the modern game, they probably do still love this club just as much as you do - in their own way.

[Wes Tender]

To a certain extent, some of the cries from the crowd are justified under certain circumstances.

 

For example, when Kelvin or a defender runs the risk of being closed down and possibly losing the ball in a vital area of the pitch, then Dave Merrington is right; there is a right time to pass the ball out from the back and a wrong time. Sometimes it is the right thing to do to get rid. Equally, the shouts of "shoot" are sometimes rightly an encouragement to pull the trigger when a clear shooting chance has presented itself. Or sometimes it is ironic and humourous.

 

When the ball is played sideways or backwards, that is fine when we are ahead and it is gratifying that it frustrates the hell out of the opposition that they can't get the ball and the clock is winding down. But it can be equally frustrating to our fans when we are chasing the match and short of time to get something out of a game and the players seem to lack urgency and get the ball within striking distance.

 

Southampton have historically played an attractive and entertaining passing game and this has become known as the Southampton way. We play good football under Adkins and not only has it been good entertainment, but it has been effective too. The new players recently introduced seem to be capable of carrying on that style of play and are young and hungry, so with luck they will be with us for many years and grow to be synonymous with the Southampton way and make us proud of them and the club.

 

We already have gained a fantastic reputation for producing an impressive crop of young players through our academy and they are shining beacons for what we are about as a club. Many of these players grace the Premier League already, with several others currently on the verge of breaking through within the next year or two. When the way we play translates into a successful campaign in the top flight, our fan base will grow to appreciate that it is effective and productive in the points it gains us and there will be less of the neanderthal tendency making inane comments towards the players; although by the nature of the beast, there will always be an element of the lunatic fringe amongst football fans.

[david in sweden]

The problem with the "Southampton Way" is that if it takes too long to get off the ground,

 

 

after 3 games... I think most people (Adkins included) have more or less seen who can "make it " and who not. There's not many left to decide about, but the jury's still out on a couple.....

 

In the next few weeks, we will likely introduce 3 new players into the team, which already has 3 from the summer signings.

 

I don't think they've quite got into the Southampton Way yet, Alpine... I think we should give them a bit more time......

still if we haven't seen any radical improvement by say ....November, then we can give up the whole thing and prepare ourselves for Championship football next season.

 

Do I read you correctly, or ?

[JPTCount]

The Guly boo-ers should have their vocal chords removed forcibly by Guly himself.

 

[david in sweden]

It is great to have the luxury to play like Barcelona but it is evolution not revolution. It is no good trying to get players to exceed their abilities against in the main, certainly this year much more experienced and accomplished players. The only target this year is to stay up whatever it takes. It will take more additions of the right players to get this team to the level where passing is 90% of it's game. Until then we have to adapt and get enough points to give us another season to evolve some more.

 

Agreed . Why do half this thread think that the concept has failed after only 3 games ...?

[derry]

It is great to have the luxury to play like Barcelona but it is evolution not revolution. It is no good trying to get players to exceed their abilities against in the main, certainly this year much more experienced and accomplished players. The only target this year is to stay up whatever it takes. It will take more additions of the right players to get this team to the level where passing is 90% of it's game. Until then we have to adapt and get enough points to give us another season to evolve some more.

 

I've thought this through since last night. From where I stand the wrong way to set up a team is pick a formation and make a team play it even if it doesn't suit some of the players. The right way is to pick a formation that gets the best out of the team. In the same way it is not possible to take a team and suddenly tell it 'we are now going to play a passing game' because again some of the players just don't get it. Wes Tender said above that sometimes it is appropriate at other times not, this is absolutely the rule.

 

I thought about our great striker Ron Davies, the best attacking header of a ball I've ever seen, if he had been placed in a short passing strait jacket he would have been useless but stand the ball up in front of goal and he was like an eight foot tall Lambert, unplayable. We have to evolve the style but not to the exclusion of variation because possession is all well and good a lot of the time but there is a time to put a boot through the ball. If we want a goalkeeper playing out from the back we have to sign one that plays that way, the same with some other players. The answer to my throw in remark is a lot more movement from more players not just pass it back to the thrower from five yards.

 

This team is nowhere near the finished article in terms of personnel and needs a good few more of the sort of players that suit the passing game. Even the best teams play in a variety of ways although technique and ball possession is second nature. We also need players that can take on defenders with pace and trickery and also keep possession. Passing isn't the holy grail putting the ball in the opponents net is.

Edited 4 September, 2012 by derry

[Frank's cousin]

I've thought this through since last night. From where I stand the wrong way to set up a team is pick a formation and make a team play it even if it doesn't suit some of the players. The right way is to pick a formation that gets the best out of the team. In the same way it is not possible to take a team and suddenly tell it 'we are now going to play a passing game' because again some of the players just don't get it. Wes Tender said above that sometimes it is appropriate at other times not, this is absolutely the rule.

 

I thought about our great striker Ron Davies, the best attacking header of a ball I've ever seen, if he had been placed in a short passing strait jacket he would have been useless but stand the ball up in front of goal and he was like an eight foot tall Lambert, unplayable. We have to evolve the style but not to the exclusion of variation because possession is all well and good a lot of the time but there is a time to put a boot through the ball. If we want a goalkeeper playing out from the back we have to sign one that plays that way, the same with some other players. The answer to my throw in remark is a lot more movement from more players not just pass it back to the thrower from five yards.

 

This team is nowhere near the finished article in terms of personnel and needs a good few more of the sort of players that suit the passing game. Even the best teams play in a variety of ways although technique and ball possession is second nature. We also need players that can take on defenders with pace and trickery and also keep possession. Passing isn't the holy grail putting the ball in the opponents net is.

 

Agree to some extent Derry, but if the way that 'gets the best out of the team' is a style and formation that is simply too archaic or limited against the quality of opposition, whether it be defensively or offensively, then surely this is where you coach intensively to get players to be more adaptable? If we know that in the prem a 442 etc is simply not going to work/too old fashioned, and we see success with 4231 or 433 (albeit in sides with better quality individuals), I really do feel this is where the manager and coaches earn their bacon - ultimately these guys a footballers and too often we believe they are restricted to a set role in a set position... I dont believe this is teh case, yes they may have become conditioned through years of playing that position/role, but good coaching should be able to make a difference - I think that the perception that they cant is because too many believe the old school pundit view which I suggest is possibly due to many managers and coaches being too lazy or uninterested in innovation, but rather focus on what they know...