Be honest, should the £12m paid for GR been spent elsewhere?

[Thedelldays]

Well I wouldnt have. I

I bet that is not true though

[slickmick]

Its going to take time to build a good squad for the prem league and I'm sure a lot of other clubs/fans ect will be highlighting their area's of weakness.

We have a new centre back who just might be something special, then our only real weakness is left back. Thats not bad for our first time back in the premiership for seven years.

[notnowcato]

Well I wouldnt have. I dont understand what the need for J-Rod AND Mayuka AND Ramirez was when we were already capable of scoring goals (as has been demonstrated against the 2 Manchesters without them..)

 

And I dispute that the defence has been strengthened sufficiently. I also dispute that we have a sufficiently capable back-up or successor to Kelvin at the moment (maybe in time, which we might not have...)

 

It's not rocket salad is it?

 

J-Rod covers Rickie.

Mayuka brings much needed pace.

Ramirez is better than Puncheon.

 

You don't know how good Gazza or Yoshi are but dispute they are good enough.. Yoshi plays left back for Japan tonight, having captained them at centre back in the Olympics.

[alpine_saint]

It's not rocket salad is it?

 

J-Rod covers Rickie.

Mayuka brings much needed pace.

Ramirez is better than Puncheon.

 

You don't know how good Gazza or Yoshi are but dispute they are good enough.. Yoshi plays left back for Japan tonight, having captained them at centre back in the Olympics.

 

Puncheon appears to be doing just fine now he has buckled down.

 

And J-Rod is not in Rickie's league, imo-

[notnowcato]

Puncheon appears to be doing just fine now he has buckled down.

 

And J-Rod is not in Rickie's league, imo-

 

Punch has only started putting a shift in now we are in the Premier League. Not the type of character to rely upon. His reaction to Ramirez coming in could be telling. Competition is at least healthy for that spot.

 

Is that J-Rod written off then? He is a much better prospect leading the line than playing on the left. At the moment it will take an injury or suspension to Rickie for J-Rod to get his chance but I would hold off judging him until he's had a run of games up front.

[alpine_saint]

Punch has only started putting a shift in now we are in the Premier League. Not the type of character to rely upon. His reaction to Ramirez coming in could be telling. Competition is at least healthy for that spot.

 

Is that J-Rod written off then? He is a much better prospect leading the line than playing on the left. At the moment it will take an injury or suspension to Rickie for J-Rod to get his chance but I would hold off judging him until he's had a run of games up front.

 

Perfectly willing to change my opinion, only saying it as I see it now.

[notnowcato]

Perfectly willing to change my opinion, only saying it as I see it now.

 

I know, your Italian Tank impression is a sight to behold.

[saint_ed]

It's not rocket salad is it?

 

J-Rod covers Rickie.

Mayuka brings much needed pace.

Ramirez is better than Puncheon.

 

You don't know how good Gazza or Yoshi are but dispute they are good enough.. Yoshi plays left back for Japan tonight, having captained them at centre back in the Olympics.

 

Despite my thoughts on the Ramirez signing (delighted), I agree with Alps that the defence hasn't been strengthened sufficiently. For arguments sake, let's say Yoshi fills in at left back instead of Fox, we still have the massive calamity in the middle that is Fonte. We needed another left back so that Yoshi can slot in the middle so we can take our two biggest weaknesses out the starting lineup.

 

I

[Dig Dig]

Despite my thoughts on the Ramirez signing (delighted), I agree with Alps that the defence hasn't been strengthened sufficiently. For arguments sake, let's say Yoshi fills in at left back instead of Fox, we still have the massive calamity in the middle that is Fonte. We needed another left back so that Yoshi can slot in the middle so we can take our two biggest weaknesses out the starting lineup.

 

I

 

I still maintain that this type of statement is an over reaction. You'd think we have Richard Dryden at the back the way people have been banging on about Fonte!

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Despite my thoughts on the Ramirez signing (delighted), I agree with Alps that the defence hasn't been strengthened sufficiently. For arguments sake, let's say Yoshi fills in at left back instead of Fox, we still have the massive calamity in the middle that is Fonte. We needed another left back so that Yoshi can slot in the middle so we can take our two biggest weaknesses out the starting lineup.

 

I

 

That really is an completely over the top comment

[Whitey Grandad]

Despite my thoughts on the Ramirez signing (delighted), I agree with Alps that the defence hasn't been strengthened sufficiently. For arguments sake, let's say Yoshi fills in at left back instead of Fox, we still have the massive calamity in the middle that is Fonte. We needed another left back so that Yoshi can slot in the middle so we can take our two biggest weaknesses out the starting lineup.

 

I

 

Yes, it scares the willies out of me but what can I do?

[Wes Tender]

I still maintain that this type of statement is an over reaction. You'd think we have Richard Dryden at the back the way people have been banging on about Fonte!

 

Dear old Trigger! And Benali in the left back spot, the ever present threat of a red card or a ball cleared somewhere into the depths of the West stand.

[Thedelldays]

I still maintain that this type of statement is an over reaction. You'd think we have Richard Dryden at the back the way people have been banging on about Fonte!

its a shame we have such an horrific start...as the players learning about the prem have an impossible job.

 

lets hope after the arsenal game we go on a run as it won't get any harder...cant see a run of four games like that all season

[Dig Dig]

Dear old Trigger! And Benali in the left back spot, the ever present threat of a red card or a ball cleared somewhere into the depths of the West stand.

 

You could literally feel the air being sucked out of the Dell every time Benali got the ball when under pressure or attempted a back pass to the keeper. Those were the days!

[Saint Without a Halo]

No I dont think so

[slickmick]

It's not rocket salad is it?

 

J-Rod covers Rickie.

Mayuka brings much needed pace.

Ramirez is better than Puncheon.

 

 

 

You don't know how good Gazza or Yoshi are but dispute they are good enough.. Yoshi plays left back for Japan tonight, having captained them at centre back in the Olympics.

 

 

What about Lee ? thought he was the one with pace and where does this leave Guly ?

 

As we are only playing with one striker, we now have five options for one place unless we try to fit square pegs in round holes.

Surely a few more to cover at the back would have been better.

[david in sweden]

this thread (like many others) has clearly " lost its way " and drifted onto other totally unrelated subjects...

 

but IMO, the answer to your original question (in #1) .....is NO !

 

Next question ...?

[Minsk]

And now to answer the OP:

 

1. I am amazed that any Saints fan could have felt 'annoyed' over the signing of such a highly rated player.

 

Why? Everybody is entitled to an opinion. It's annoying as I believe that we could've signed other 'players' who would have added more depth than adding one player.

 

2. Yes, there were, and still are, other areas that needed attention. In particular goalkeeper and defence. However, we did sign two goalkeepers (admittedly one was for the development squad), an England U21 international RB and a full Japanese international CB. So we didn't exactly ignore those areas.

 

No, fair comment. But do you feel that either of those are capable of stepping up should Davies get injured? Now, I'm not saying that they're not good enough, just that it's the Premier league and it's a tough place for a young, inexperienced goalkeeper. Look at teams like Villa, Spurs and even QPR. They've all got 2 keepers fighting for the No.1 shirt. I don't believe we have.

 

3. You state we ignored those areas in favour of 'unknown' strikers and attacking midfielders. I presume you mean 'unknown to you' as I had certainly heard of all our signings before they were recruited. In fact, I am sure the majority of posters on here had heard of Ramirez (the prime 'annoyance' of yours) and Mayuka before they were linked with us.

 

I'd never heard of Mayuka. I'd seen Yoshida & Ramierez play. I wonder just how many people can hand on heart say that they had heard of Ramirez prior to him being linked with Saints? You say that the majority of forum users would have been familiar with him. I have to disagree. My guess is that less than 50% would have known who he was. I say this because I work with a huge number of Liverpool supporters and when they we're linked with him only 1 or 2 knew who he was. You'd have thought he'd be better known to Liverpool supporters as they've been playing european football more than saints? The reality is that we'll never know as I doubt anybody is going to admit it now.

 

4. Why do people still think that the signing of any and all new players at football clubs, and particularly at Saints, is all down to the manager? That sort of thing went out of the window many years ago at most clubs. It has been widely stated that Saints have a committee for the recruitment of new players. I am sure Adkins does have a high degree of say in that committee but it is not all down to him to identify players, negotiate with them and their agents and hen to get them to sign on the dotted line. This does not mean anyone is a Cortese signing either; it is a group effort. And, in any case, Adkins clearly admitted, on a number of occasions, that he wanted to bring in 2 CBs; it is also pretty clear that he would have also liked to bring in a new LB, so any criticism of him 'not buying enough defenders' is well off IMO.

 

4. Sadly, I don't think all signings are down to the manager. Personally I believe they should be as he's the one who is in direct contact with the players and knows the team better than anyone else. I don't recall saying that we hadn't signed 'enough defenders' as you put it. I'm disappointed that we've not strengthened in those areas and I think that the performances and results show that we do have an issue.

 

5. I have kept the most pertinent answer to your post until last......... Where has anybody said that Ramirez was signed at the expense of signing other possible options, especially in other positions (i.e. CB and LB). How do you collate, and justify, our signing of a fantastic young creative attacking player as being the reason we didn't sign any other defenders apart from the full international CB and the U21 international RB? Please find me a statement from Adkins or Cortese that says this is so. Also, please give me a list of all the players we asked about or negotiated with and the reasons as to why these deals didn't come off, particularly indicating those that were scratched solely because of the funds being used to purchase Gaston!

 

I don't believe that his signing was at the expense of other possible options (CB & LB). I also don't recall saying that it was the signing of GR for £12m that led to us not signing defenders - That is how people have chosen to interpret what I asked. I asked if the £12m could've been better spent elsewhere. For example, Phillips & Ince maybe? £12m on one player in a squad like ours is a lot and if he can't settle or gets injured then we're back to square one. Had we signed 2 or 3 players then maybe we'd be in a better position to cover this kind of event should it occur.

 

Thanks for this response. Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I have had a couple of very busy days.

 

1. Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion, and any forum would be derelict if those opinions didn't vary. I am still, however, amazed that a supporter of any team could be 'annoyed' at the signing a highly rated, very talented, young player. I understand your stance that the £12m could been used elsewhere, and the fact it wasn't is what 'annoyed you', but there is NO evidence that the signing of Ramirez came at the exclusion of any other signings. In fact, quite the opposite, as we still signed other players and had bids in for yet more.

 

I certainly feel that Clyne and Yoshi are good enough; as for Gazza, I have no idea - and I feel that no one on here really does. I do think that we are still a CB and a LB light in defence and, absolutely, I would have liked us to sign another, more experienced, goalkeeper - but I don't think we are short of such players because of the money spent on Ramirez. What's more, should anything happen to Kelvin we would be permitted to bring in an emergency loan; so that area doesn't overly worry me. In the meantime Gazza is gaining valuable experience just being in the match-day squad; something he wouldn't have had if we had signed yet another, more experienced, 'keeper.

 

3. nothing to add here

 

4. I think the manager has enough to deal with in coaching the squad, choosing tactics, who plays where, etc. So having a committee to help choose new recruits and to bring them onboard is a good thing IMO. Of course, the manager should have the final say as to exactly who is brought in and who isn't but he shouldn't do everything with regard to signing them. Ans, as previously stated, I am also disappointed we didn't sign sign a few more players to strengthen the squad, but I am t enraged by the fact.

 

5. It would seem I was not alone in interpreting your OP the way I did; most other posters did as well. So, to answer could the 12m have been better spent elsewhere? Maybe, but we will never truly know. As I mentioned earlier, that 12m was certainly not the only money we had to spend - which kind of makes this question null and void. I certainly do feel we needed to buy someone capable of opening up solid defences. Maybe if Gaston had arrived sooner the Wigan result would have been different. If that had happened I doubt you would have created this thread. All if's. but's and maybe's - which is all we can answer your OP with given none of us know exactly who we bid for and why those we wanted but didn't get didn't come.

 

To answer this another way, would I have preferred we buy 6 x 2m players? No. That was the Lowe way - buy lots of ordinary players. What about 2 x 6m players? Depends on they would have been and if they gave value for money and significantly improved the team. We did bid 6m for Phillips, on top of the Ramirez purchase; which again goes to prove that our signing him did not stop us going for others. Would Phillips and Ince have been a big improvement over (for example) Lallana and Puncheon? I don't think so. Will Ramirez be a big improvement? We will have to wait and see. I am certain though, that if United hadn't bought RVP we would have beaten them. That is what a top quality player can deliver. For top quality you need to pay big bucks. Is Ramirez that quality? That's to be seen..... and is not what was asked in your OP. Something for another thread, another day.

 

P.S. Condolences for your loss.

[david in sweden]

well I've been away a couple of days, too but now that the dust has settled a bit ....it was interesting to read the rather lengthy posts on this item.

 

My own take on this is that "money " for the right player is always available. The fact that there are hundreds of players out there that we are linked with only makes rational decision-making more difficult. I noted that the Echo ran an on-going list of players that we had " been linked with ´" during the close season......I lost count somewhere after it passed ...60 (!). Some of these clearly came from more reputable sources (some ITK).others were some schoolboy view of someone that clearly was never even on Saints " wish list ". Thr remainder we will never know about.

 

It is clear (to me at any rate) that our policy is to recruit...good young talent (Ramirez and Clyne) with a view to coaching them into our style of play ..(the Southampton Way?)...which clearly was both successful and entertaining in past seasons, although admittedly most of the personnel from that era had, fairly understandibly, reached their level of incompetence last season. I make little arguement against those who have survived.

 

It's clear that Nigel Adkins - hitherto one of the most successful managers in the clubs history - was suddenly on thin ice when some people posted demanding his sacking after our epic display against the League Champions in an away game. I await a list of other managers who will be threatened with the sack when their team loses at Etihad during this season.(!)

 

My own conclusions are much as they were at the end of last season. " Gazza " may be an excellent prospect, but there should have been a "better class " of replacement for Bart (who clearly has found his level in L1).and we are left with the dangerous possibility that in the event of injury, or severe loss of form / confidence, we have no acceptable stand-in for KD.

 

Again, as many others have highlighted, the departure of Jaidi and rather premature out-loaning of Aaron Martin ( a good prospect IMO)..left us with the uncertain situation around Seaborne. Although not always first choice- even two seasons ago - he managed only a handful of games in last season's Championship before his " enforced absence". He may be performing well in training, hence the decision to keep him, but there remains a question mark over someone who has only performed regularly at L1 level. The signing of Yoshida is a big plus, and I hope for his sake alone that he may confound some of his critics, who have yet to see him play. In any event I am concerned that Jose Fonte has, sadly, been responsible for a number of the errors that have led to recent defeats. A talented and skilful player on the ball, he somehow seems to go into slow-motion - especially when playing "suicidal back-passes " - which have often left KD in no-mans land and created chances for strikers. I feel he is not half the player he was - before his injury last Autumn.

 

We are presently still without Jack Cork, clearly an influential player in the squad, but I think there is a good enough mix to cope with the demands of midfield. Rickie Lambert has proved something to himself and a lot of his critics, but we have yet to see a regular run from the newer acquisitions (in which I include the recently returned Tadanari Lee), and I'm hopeful we will see them on the scoresheet in the near future. Unless we manage to pick up a OOC player of the standard of Owen or Del Piero, we are going to have to live with the squad we have until January.´

 

I have not ignored the former Academy prospects, of whom there are more than a few, and though we may see one of two sparkling performances, it is hard to see anyone (except perhaps JWP) who is likely to command a regular place in the side, at least in the near future.

 

In short, YES we might have signed " someone else "- but if they are misfits to the system - then the money would have been wasted. Like many of our newer fans ...NA is also learning about life in the Prem. As a 50 year+ fan, I've seen this scenario before, but as few of that playing generation are influential enough and still around to tell the tale, I hope we ALL learn more quickly this time.

Edited 10 September, 2012 by david in sweden

[southamptonfclegend]

Personally I don't think if we hadn't of bought Ramirez we would have necessarily bought other players in, maybe we would have due to the time it took to get Ramirez but not actually due to the money factor..

[cellone]

I think if we hadn't spent the 12 mill the only difference would be that Ramirez wasn't here.

[Dellman]

If we don't spend big sand show ambition people moan if we do people ...

[Secret Site Agent]

Personally I was annoyed by the signing as there were other areas that desperately needed attention and £12m would have gone a long way to solving our problems. If the fans could see the areas that needed addressing then why were they ignored in favour of signing unknown strikers and attacking midfielders? £12m would've added depth and quality to the squad. It's great that the club are trying to make a statement of intent but how about doing it after you've got the bread and butter of the team sorted?

I've just read a thread about which out of contract players we should be looking to sign for the problem areas. A list of goalkeepers, left backs and centre backs. The very areas that we all knew were a problem at the start of the season... You have to laugh.

I like Adkins, he's done a fantastic job, but this has raised my first doubts about him. How could he get it so wrong? If this was an episode of The Apprentice his failure to address the problem would have him staring at Lord Sugar's pointed finger and hearing the words, 'your fired'.

 

My personal opinion is that why should we have spent the 12m on other areas, when we could spend 12m and more on other areas.

[pap]

Is this the new hangout for the losers of the GR transfer thread?

 

Weren't right then so start a thread about how the money was mis-spent? When we haven't seen two of our signings play?

[Torres]

I think the money spent on Ramirez was totally wasted. He signed 11 days ago and he's none absolutely nothing on the pitch for us yet that suggests he's any good at all.

[Bearsy]

Good point Torres!

 

Gaston Ramirez

Goals - 0

Assists - 0

Pass completion rate - 0%

Successful tackles - 0

 

Waste of monies!

[Frank's cousin]

He's 21 - a player of huge potential and teh fact that we as a club have made such an investment speaks volumes about where NC is looking to take us. As with many players form foreign leagues, he may well take several months to adapt, especially for a younger player who has still to find the consistency that comes with experience. If he develops as expected, then after a couple of seasons we could have a 30mil player on our books - so although there is an element of risk, its clear this has not been done without one eye on the future business.

 

I dont believe this purchase had any impact on who else we were trying to get, just that some work and some dont.

[SaintJc]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1329729-gaston-ramirez-why-southamptons-record-signing-can-save-saints-from-relegation/page/6 Article about Ramirez from yesterday. Like the bit about us not so long ago playing against "Portsmouth, Doncaster Rovers and the like"