Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Personally I was annoyed by the signing as there were other areas that desperately needed attention and £12m would have gone a long way to solving our problems. If the fans could see the areas that needed addressing then why were they ignored in favour of signing unknown strikers and attacking midfielders? £12m would've added depth and quality to the squad. It's great that the club are trying to make a statement of intent but how about doing it after you've got the bread and butter of the team sorted? I've just read a thread about which out of contract players we should be looking to sign for the problem areas. A list of goalkeepers, left backs and centre backs. The very areas that we all knew were a problem at the start of the season... You have to laugh. I like Adkins, he's done a fantastic job, but this has raised my first doubts about him. How could he get it so wrong? If this was an episode of The Apprentice his failure to address the problem would have him staring at Lord Sugar's pointed finger and hearing the words, 'your fired'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 (edited) Now you've done it. Its a taboo subject. Forget that we've rocked two of the best 3 teams in the PL over the past 2 weeks, therfore demonstrating our attack is already strong enough. But that on both occasions they scored one more than us because of our sh*te defence. Edited 3 September, 2012 by alpine_saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northant Saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 trolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 3 September, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Spot on mate. I realise this is a taboo subject, but that's why I asked the question. Why have a forum if you're not going to be honest and discuss the tricky subjects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 trolls Nope. Perfectly vaild opinion observing where we are now. Dont understand the hissy fits about him asking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Personally I was annoyed by the signing as there were other areas that desperately needed attention and £12m would have gone a long way to solving our problems. If the fans could see the areas that needed addressing then why were they ignored in favour of signing unknown strikers and attacking midfielders? £12m would've added depth and quality to the squad. It's great that the club are trying to make a statement of intent but how about doing it after you've got the bread and butter of the team sorted? I've just read a thread about which out of contract players we should be looking to sign for the problem areas. A list of goalkeepers, left backs and centre backs. The very areas that we all knew were a problem at the start of the season... You have to laugh. I like Adkins, he's done a fantastic job, but this has raised my first doubts about him. How could he get it so wrong? If this was an episode of The Apprentice his failure to address the problem would have him staring at Lord Sugar's pointed finger and hearing the words, 'your fired'. What makes you think Adkins had anything to do with the Ramirez transfer? Cortese wanted a big money high profile signing and went all out to get it - and he succeeded. I doubt any thoughts about defensive weaknesses or goalkeeper weaknesses were allowed to divert him from this goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrokenGusBus Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I think it is unfair to judge the purchase and fee of GR without seeing him touch a ball for saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 3 September, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2012 trolls Why? Because I've had the ******** to be be honest and face facts. Because I don't have a rose tinted view of what's going on? It's a forum. It's all about opinions. Not being lambasted for not having the same blinkered opinion as everybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 There is no reason why we couldn't have got GR and also strengthened the defence. It sounded like Adkins was expecting a busier last evening on deadline day, going by his interview during the day, therefore get the impression that we failed with a few defensive targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I think it is unfair to judge the purchase and fee of GR without seeing him touch a ball for saints. He's not judging the transfer of GR that harshly. He's judging the emphasis of the transfer window in its entirety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surrey1saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I think it is unfair to judge the purchase and fee of GR without seeing him touch a ball for saints. Spot on ,stupid thread IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 3 September, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I think it is unfair to judge the purchase and fee of GR without seeing him touch a ball for saints. You have a point. But after seeing what happened yesterday you have to agree that money should've been spent elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Its clear we have defensive frailties, but I am not convinced that we cant improve these through better organization and adjusting to the pace - anyone would think its a simple solution and that with enough money spent on quality defenders we will just get clean sheets and never loose - we stuck 2 past a defence that had Ferdinand and Vidic from open play... our defence needs confidence and improved concentration and orgniation especially at set pieces. The reason for the need for a more creativity in the attack is not for against sides like Man U or City, who play tehir own more expansive attcking game and allow us to get forward, but to unlook thos esides we NEED to beat, the Wigan's of this world etc where these sides will be happy to sit deeper when we have the ball and lets us pass it around - without a huge amount of success. At present our attacking style will work better against the top sides, but I believe is ineffective against the more lesser sides. Sure we can always improve the quality of defence, but I suspect that we missed out on a couple we will never know about rather than an either or decsion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 There is no reason why we couldn't have got GR and also strengthened the defence. It sounded like Adkins was expecting a busier last evening on deadline day, going by his interview during the day, therefore get the impression that we failed with a few defensive targets. So the question is : was the ball dropped in other areas because too much focus was given to closing the GR deal ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 So the question is : was the ball dropped in other areas because too much focus was given to closing the GR deal ? I don't think it was, given the fact he'd agreed to come 10 days before the window closed. There is no doubt we were after atleast 1 more defender, possibly two. It's time for Fonte and Fox to step up in the next few weeks - lets hope they improve with the 2 weeks out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 If the OP were to swap GR with JR I'd have been inclined to agreed. Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 3 September, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Spot on ,stupid thread IMO. Why is it a stupid thread, Because you don't agree with it? So you're honestly happy that we've failed to address the most problematic areas of the team and are paying the price for doing so? All I've said is that I'd have rather seen that £12m spent elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Its clear we have defensive frailties, but I am not convinced that we cant improve these through better organization and adjusting to the pace - anyone would think its a simple solution and that with enough money spent on quality defenders we will just get clean sheets and never loose - we stuck 2 past a defence that had Ferdinand and Vidic from open play... our defence needs confidence and improved concentration and orgniation especially at set pieces. The reason for the need for a more creativity in the attack is not for against sides like Man U or City, who play tehir own more expansive attcking game and allow us to get forward, but to unlook thos esides we NEED to beat, the Wigan's of this world etc where these sides will be happy to sit deeper when we have the ball and lets us pass it around - without a huge amount of success. At present our attacking style will work better against the top sides, but I believe is ineffective against the more lesser sides. Sure we can always improve the quality of defence, but I suspect that we missed out on a couple we will never know about rather than an either or decsion. Do you really think Fonte and Fox can reach the required standard with "better organisation" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_ed Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 The CB issue has been a constant problem for our last 2/3 windows now. I'm just astounded that we have found it so hard to finalise a few options who we deemed to be good enough and acted upon it. While I'm sure we have made efforts I just don't see that it has been a priority and fear it could well be our downfall this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Why is it a stupid thread, Because you don't agree with it? So you're honestly happy that we've failed to address the most problematic areas of the team and are paying the price for doing so? All I've said is that I'd have rather seen that £12m spent elsewhere. Dont rise to it. For me, surrey1saint has made the first trolling comment on this thread, not you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 It has been said not just on here but noises coming out of St Marys and from news outlets that we were after defendive options as well as GR So no, I dont see the point as valid tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 The CB issue has been a constant problem for our last 2/3 windows now. I'm just astounded that we have found it so hard to finalise a few options who we deemed to be good enough and acted upon it. While I'm sure we have made efforts I just don't see that it has been a priority and fear it could well be our downfall this season. Yes, this. Someone has been fixated with pretty football and attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 3 September, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2012 If the OP were to swap GR with JR I'd have been inclined to agreed. Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express Do you know, that's a very good point. With all the attention focused on GR, I'd completely forgotten about J-Rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 It has been said not just on here but noises coming out of St Marys and from news outlets that we were after defendive options as well as GR So no, I dont see the point as valid tbh Without someone setting the record straight, the efforts on defenders appear half-hearted compared to the landing of GR. I was told on here a couple of weeks ago to shaddap and the defenders would come. Guess what ? They havent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Cunning Stunts Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Its clear we have defensive frailties, but I am not convinced that we cant improve these through better organization and adjusting to the pace - anyone would think its a simple solution and that with enough money spent on quality defenders we will just get clean sheets and never loose - we stuck 2 past a defence that had Ferdinand and Vidic from open play... our defence needs confidence and improved concentration and orgniation especially at set pieces. The reason for the need for a more creativity in the attack is not for against sides like Man U or City, who play tehir own more expansive attcking game and allow us to get forward, but to unlook thos esides we NEED to beat, the Wigan's of this world etc where these sides will be happy to sit deeper when we have the ball and lets us pass it around - without a huge amount of success. At present our attacking style will work better against the top sides, but I believe is ineffective against the more lesser sides. Sure we can always improve the quality of defence, but I suspect that we missed out on a couple we will never know about rather than an either or decsion. Agree with this. Would have been great to strengthen the defence, but hey, ManU's and ManC's haven't looked that great this season either. The key will be to score goals against the Wet Spams and Aston Villas of this league. Completely valid thread though and not sure why some people feel the need to jump down the OP's throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 3 September, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2012 The CB issue has been a constant problem for our last 2/3 windows now. I'm just astounded that we have found it so hard to finalise a few options who we deemed to be good enough and acted upon it. While I'm sure we have made efforts I just don't see that it has been a priority and fear it could well be our downfall this season. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Do you really think Fonte and Fox can reach the required standard with "better organisation" ? Yes, everyone can improve if coached correctly - with Fox I think if we are sticking with him for the time being, he needs to simplifiy his game, too often out of position as a result of forward forayts etc, leave hiim exposed. Fonte, is about concentration - never going to be the best, but panic and errors can be eliminated if coached to some extent yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Cunning Stunts Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Of course, we haven't seen Yoshida play yet, so we can hardly say the defence hasn't been strengthened at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Without someone setting the record straight, the efforts on defenders appear half-hearted compared to the landing of GR. I would rather we signed the correct players instead ofa scattergun approach that could cost us financially AND on the pitch, lets face it you do t play against RVP every game. We all know we needed defensive options, wehave the CB weeanted, perhaps we need a LB too, who we went foron two occasions. Stop dramatising it, Yoshida has not playedyet and we have played probably the 1 & 2 teams this year and made them fight for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 3 September, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Completely valid thread though and not sure why some people feel the need to jump down the OP's throat. Thanks man. There's too many people on here who are very quick to ridicule you for not having the same opinion as them. I like Internet forums as they offer fans the space to discuss any number of topics. However, what I don't like is the bullying mentality that some people adopt simply because your view is not the same as theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I can't pass comment on Ramirez as I've yet to see him play. What I would say is that I'm surprised we've gone all out the strengthen our attacking line up by investing over £20M in Ramirez, Rodriguez and Mayuka, while recognising that our defence is the weaker area of the team but only spending around a quarter of that amount on a good right back, an unknown centre back and a reserve keeper. Its going to be a long season if we find it impossible to keep score lines down, we've twice conceded 3 and even shipped 2 against Wigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Agree with this. Would have been great to strengthen the defence, but hey, ManU's and ManC's haven't looked that great this season either. The key will be to score goals against the Wet Spams and Aston Villas of this league. Completely valid thread though and not sure why some people feel the need to jump down the OP's throat. Agreeed the question is very valid - I think the problem is that the rep of the OP suggests there is more to asking it than merely the footbaling merits - is it a veiled criticism of NC who he has a problem with? Think that causes the tit-for tat nonsence and means teh validity of the original question is lost in that more veiled 'political' bollo x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 It absolutely should have been spent elsewhere, no doubt. I'm moving house soon and the legal fees, surveyor fees and stamp duty are horrendous. Even a fraction of the GR money chucked my way would have made life a lot easier for me. Cortese out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 3 September, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Stop dramatising it, Yoshida has not playedyet and we have played probably the 1 & 2 teams this year and made them fight for it True, but we also played a very average Wigan side and didn't even look like we were at the races. :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Cunning Stunts Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Thanks man. There's too many people on here who are very quick to ridicule you for not having the same opinion as them. I like Internet forums as they offer fans the space to discuss any number of topics. However, what I don't like is the bullying mentality that some people adopt simply because your view is not the same as theirs. Completely agree and this is actually a good one to discuss. I can't get my head around how many clubs seem to leave buying players until the last day of the deadline. If you look at someone like Fergie, he tends to have his targets and on the whole wraps them up way before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Ramirez will be huge for us. I doubt the money spent on him stopped us getting other targets. Sounds like we would have beeb happy to also spend 6m on Matt Phillips so money isnt the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 3 September, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Agreeed the question is very valid - I think the problem is that the rep of the OP suggests there is more to asking it than merely the footbaling merits - is it a veiled criticism of NC who he has a problem with? Think that causes the tit-for tat nonsence and means teh validity of the original question is lost in that more veiled 'political' bollo x Not a veiled criticism at all. Just concerned at our apparent failure to address the problems at an important time in the clubs history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Thanks man. There's too many people on here who are very quick to ridicule you for not having the same opinion as them. I like Internet forums as they offer fans the space to discuss any number of topics. However, what I don't like is the bullying mentality that some people adopt simply because your view is not the same as theirs.You still haven't explained why you think that this is Adkins' mistake though? Your point may prove to be valid - but if it is, the "cuplrit" is not Adkins IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 If you look at someone like Fergie' date=' he tends to have his targets and on the whole wraps them up way before that.[/quote'] When was Utd's transfer record set? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Another thing is whose signings were they? I'm sure that Adkins had his list and I would have thought J-Rod was top of that along with Clyne. Then it seems Cortese wanted a 'sexy' signing so went big on Ramirez, but also Mayuka by the sounds of it was sorted by the chairman without any agents etc. Is this why we suddenly are a bit 'top heavy' in our options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 Originally Posted by Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd He's not the answer. Let's face facts. We have a real problem. A problem that should've been addressed before we started spunking £12m on a player who is largely unknown and may not even be cut out for life in the premiership. Show us why "He`s not the answer" having played err.. no games for us yet? Show us the "facts" from your "let`s face facts" line Posted this on another thread but you seem to have missed/ignored it..care to answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 the efforts on defenders appear half-hearted Alpine - you promised to stop posting "If Ramirez signed" Please do the honorable thing, keep to your word and stop posting! People will respect you much more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexstar Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 The J-Rod signing seems an odd one, particularly when we had the in-form Billy Sharp to fall back onto if needed. GR shows the ambition for future seasons, but I would say the £6-7m spent on Jay could have been better invested elsewhere. That Boilssen (sp) would have been perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Cunning Stunts Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 The other thought I had on this is did you all see how unbalanced our bench was yesterday? Loaded with attacking options but only Richardson and Seaborne as defensive replacements. I have no problem with Richardson, but Seaborne? He was continually getting done up like a kipper by a L1 striker last week. Wouldn't have fancied seeing what he could do against RVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 So the question is : was the ball dropped in other areas because too much focus was given to closing the GR deal ? You make it sound like nothing else happened/was happening. Mayuka and Yoshi both came in also. As was also mentioned above, there may also have been other deals that fell through, as NA hinted at. So no. Clearly there was still the ability to get other deals done (but why bother looking at that eh?) and perhaps it just didn't go the way we wanted. Happens for clubs all over the world at every professional level. I'd suggest getting the jerk in that knee looked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rshephard3 Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 What makes you think Adkins had anything to do with the Ramirez transfer? Cortese wanted a big money high profile signing and went all out to get it - and he succeeded. I doubt any thoughts about defensive weaknesses or goalkeeper weaknesses were allowed to divert him from this goal. Exactly this. Cortese worked hard to get the deal, making Adkins a yes man in that specific scenario. A left back would have been useful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Cunning Stunts Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 The J-Rod signing seems an odd one, particularly when we had the in-form Billy Sharp to fall back onto if needed. GR shows the ambition for future seasons, but I would say the £6-7m spent on Jay could have been better invested elsewhere. That Boilssen (sp) would have been perfect. I would rather have seen Billy coming off the bench than JRod yesterday. He would have given an already creaking Vidic and Ferdinand something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I tend to agree with Jay Rod, but I just wish he would be played in his correct position so we can have some time to properly judge him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I think it is unfair to judge the purchase and fee of GR without seeing him touch a ball for saints. I agree, but I will indulge the OP anyway. Nope. Perfectly vaild opinion observing where we are now. Dont understand the hissy fits about him asking it. Another typical Alpine exaggeration, where were these 'hissy fits' on this thread at the time you posted this? Personally I was annoyed by the signing as there were other areas that desperately needed attention and £12m would have gone a long way to solving our problems. If the fans could see the areas that needed addressing then why were they ignored in favour of signing unknown strikers and attacking midfielders? £12m would've added depth and quality to the squad. It's great that the club are trying to make a statement of intent but how about doing it after you've got the bread and butter of the team sorted? I've just read a thread about which out of contract players we should be looking to sign for the problem areas. A list of goalkeepers, left backs and centre backs. The very areas that we all knew were a problem at the start of the season... You have to laugh. I like Adkins, he's done a fantastic job, but this has raised my first doubts about him. How could he get it so wrong? If this was an episode of The Apprentice his failure to address the problem would have him staring at Lord Sugar's pointed finger and hearing the words, 'your fired'. And now to answer the OP: 1. I am amazed that any Saints fan could have felt 'annoyed' over the signing of such a highly rated player. 2. Yes, there were, and still are, other areas that needed attention. In particular goalkeeper and defence. However, we did sign two goalkeepers (admittedly one was for the development squad), an England U21 international RB and a full Japanese international CB. So we didn't exactly ignore those areas. 3. You state we ignored those areas in favour of 'unknown' strikers and attacking midfielders. I presume you mean 'unknown to you' as I had certainly heard of all our signings before they were recruited. In fact, I am sure the majority of posters on here had heard of Ramirez (the prime 'annoyance' of yours) and Mayuka before they were linked with us. 4. Why do people still think that the signing of any and all new players at football clubs, and particularly at Saints, is all down to the manager? That sort of thing went out of the window many years ago at most clubs. It has been widely stated that Saints have a committee for the recruitment of new players. I am sure Adkins does have a high degree of say in that committee but it is not all down to him to identify players, negotiate with them and their agents and hen to get them to sign on the dotted line. This does not mean anyone is a Cortese signing either; it is a group effort. And, in any case, Adkins clearly admitted, on a number of occasions, that he wanted to bring in 2 CBs; it is also pretty clear that he would have also liked to bring in a new LB, so any criticism of him 'not buying enough defenders' is well off IMO. 5. I have kept the most pertinent answer to your post until last......... Where has anybody said that Ramirez was signed at the expense of signing other possible options, especially in other positions (i.e. CB and LB). How do you collate, and justify, our signing of a fantastic young creative attacking player as being the reason we didn't sign any other defenders apart from the full international CB and the U21 international RB? Please find me a statement from Adkins or Cortese that says this is so. Also, please give me a list of all the players we asked about or negotiated with and the reasons as to why these deals didn't come off, particularly indicating those that were scratched solely because of the funds being used to purchase Gaston! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexstar Posted 3 September, 2012 Share Posted 3 September, 2012 I tend to agree with Jay Rod, but I just wish he would be played in his correct position so we can have some time to properly judge him. Yeah, he's definitely the Lambert-type and why Adkins put Mayuka as the striker instead is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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