Jose , your thoughts

[hypochondriac]

Jos will be fine.

 

What makes you believe that? He has shown nothing in the prem so far that supports that opinion.

[krissyboy31]

What makes you believe that? He has shown nothing in the prem so far that supports that opinion.

 

Sadly, I have to agree. I thought Fonte would struggle but he looks much more accomplished aat this level than Jos.

[The Kraken]

Jos will be fine.

 

He's certainly been fine at giving away penalties, scoring own goals and making rudimentary errors that have directly led to us conceding. He's perhaps the most un-fine defender I've seen in the Premier League for quite some time. In fact his woefulness at times has been quite spectacular.

[Dig Dig]

So we all love Jose again and now hate Jos.

 

Seems to be the case.

 

Jos and Adkins turn on the scrap heap this week.

 

Lallana isn't far behind

[Lazlo78]

So we all love Jose again and now hate Jos.

 

It's very cynical of you to say that... and quite amusing too

[Chez]

What makes you believe that? He has shown nothing in the prem so far that supports that opinion.

watching pretty much every single one of his games since he came here is what makes me believe he will be fine.

 

He is a decent player who has just made a few mistakes that have led directly to goals. Doesn't mean he is **** or can't cope at this level, it just means he has made a few mistakes. Christ, if we sacked every player that did we'd have a turnover of players like QPR.

 

Just read this thread from the start again and see how time can change opinion on players and how stupid knee jerk posts can make fans look.

 

Going back to Fonte, he made a mistake on TV at Boro (important because you get a whole host of fans that hardly ever go to games seeing the error and judging the player on that mistake rather than the bigger picture) and suddenly "he is ****". ********. He had a decent season last year and his partnership with Jos was one of the main reasons why we were promoted. But fans are fickle and forget every decent performances and only remember the below par showings. There were a few, don't get me wrong, but I recall that he had a broken toe at the time. Yes he also made a few mistakes over the course of the season (who doesn't) - diving in was always something that I thought would get him in trouble, but he has tapered that more and more as he has progressed up the leagues. This is why I, against the tide on here, thought he'd be fine given a little time to adjust. And what do you know...

 

Back to Jos. He was absolutely outstanding last season. Almost faultless at times and that needs to be taken into account when assessing what he can do for us this year. He has made a few errors this time round - being turned inside and out by Tevez certainly isn't one of them - but nothing most centre backs aren't making up and down the country. The key here is that they have ALL been punished, so they really are shown up (good old TV again) in glorious technocolour, but IMO he'll settle down and some of these mistakes will eventually not lead directly to a goal and those mistakes won't be noticed or will be quickly forgotten leading to fans saying how well he's playing - even if he is making the same sort of errors!

 

keep in mind that defending is not just about centre backs stopping strikers scoring. It's about our own strikers keeping the ball and pushing teams back. Midfielders moving off the ball causing opponents onto their back foot. It's about having the right balance of players in front of the defence who dribble and pass to ensure we keep the ball and relieve pressure. It's about care and attention when we are clearing the ball and passing right through the team. Giving the ball away cheaply, especially in poor errors leaves big centre backs exposed to quick counter attacks. It's also about putting pressure on the ball carrier, not giving away daft freekicks...the list goes on and on. In short, all CBs will make mistakes. The key is to minimise the opportunity for them to take place. If we as a team do more in that regard then there will be less opportunity for Jos to **** up and suddenly he'll look like a great player again.

 

He'll be alright.

[Window Cleaner]

So we all love Jose again and now hate Jos.

 

Well at least I'm consistent.

 

from a thread before the Arse game

 

Well I don't know, I don't like the clumsy tackling of Josh all that much, why I even made reference to it in the Man U build up thread and sure enough he gave away another penalty. I m not at all sure that José might not be better with someone a bit more composed along side him.Who knows we might even be planning to go 3 at the back on occasions.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

It's hard to criticise a defender who scores twice and wins you a point - but I'll give it a go anyway.

 

Anyone who was paying attention on Sunday really should have noticed just how often a Fonte clearance went straight to a Fulham player. On the law of averages you'd think he'd be able to find a teammate at least half the time - I don't think his distribution was anywhere near that.

 

He's been a good player for us in the main, but if you ask me he looks pretty marginal at this level I'm sorry to say.

[Chez]

 

He's been a good player for us in the main, but if you ask me he looks pretty marginal at this level I'm sorry to say.

we've only just been bloody promoted. Pretty much the whole side are therefore going to be marginal at this level. How's about lowering expectations a little and hoping these guys can complete rather than expect them to be wining week in week out?

[old_southy]

I thought he played well vs Fulham but against others he has been woeful. We really need a midfield boss to delegate responsibility.

[Legod Third Coming]

Jos is an issue - when he tweets he's 'in a bad place right now' that's not where a Premiership footballer can be.

Both Fulham goals can be laid at his door.

Someone needs to sort his confidence out. He's not become a bad player overnight.

[Dig Dig]

Jos is an issue - when he tweets he's 'in a bad place right now' that's not where a Premiership footballer can be.

Both Fulham goals can be laid at his door.

Someone needs to sort his confidence out. He's not become a bad player overnight.

 

The first goal was his fault, the 2nd wasn't.

 

And that tweet was about how he felt immediately after the game, not a little expose to the World about his general mental stability.

[Dr Who?]

Jos will be fine. All down to confidence, and that has taken a hit after hit. He quite rightly was left out the side, and he comes on, and of course he is trying to hard. I think this is all it is down to, trying to get that last ditch challenge in, whoops penalty, trying to get in the way at the last second of that shot, whoops own goal. Manking the wrong decisions. He is human, and if most people are trying to impress after a couple of failiers, it is hard to get it right.

 

He is a great defender, who will come good, and hopefully for us!

[Dr Who?]

I thought he played well vs Fulham but against others he has been woeful. We really need a midfield boss to delegate responsibility.

 

Yes most seem to have missed the fact that our defence has woeful support from midfield!

[GAS]

Jos is an issue - when he tweets he's 'in a bad place right now' that's not where a Premiership footballer can be.

Both Fulham goals can be laid at his door.

Someone needs to sort his confidence out. He's not become a bad player overnight.

Jos has always been a dodgy player. Scored a few goals last season and a decent chap, but in no way a premiership player.

[Miltonaggro]

It's going to be interesting to see the difference Boruc makes when he comes in. The last 'vocal' keeper we had was probably Neimi, and that type of keeper can make a huge difference to the positioning and timing of centre backs, Shilton was an absolute master at it. By all accounts Boruc marshals, encourages, and b*llocks his defence non stop, and having a seen it done it back five 'skipper' may raise confidence and help the back four to settle down. Just need to get the big guy fit...

[Turkish]

I'm amazed there are people on here who think he is a great defender and will be fine in the premier league. He really isn't. A few goals last season and walking around clapping the fans at the end of every game seemed to have fooled people into thinking he's some world class defender last season. A few bits of reality for you. Some people seem to be fooled into thinking he had a great partnership with Fonte last season. The reality was that we we're flat track bullies, most of our clean sheets came when we dominated games, how many games did we pick up points where we defended brilliantly and held onto a 1-0 win or a backs to the wall point? When under pressure this great partnership looked fragile and often gave away sloppy goals.

 

As soon as Jos arrived Fontes performances dropped off. For whatever reason the two of thm didn't look comfortable together. It's no coincidence that Fontes performances have picked up alongside Yoshida. A centre half is often as only good as his partner, look at how good Lundekvam was alongside Michael Svenson yet then how poor he looked alongside other partners. Centre backs are a unit and need understanding. For whatever reason Fonte and Hooliveld don't seem to have that.

 

I'm sure some people will point to the odd game here and there and be up in arms that I dare to say Hooliveld isn't the best defender ever to have played for us. Hes a good guy and by no means a terrible player, just not good enough and was never going to be good enough for the premier league. I did warn of this last season but was told i was wrong and he was brilliant. However, look over the course of last season and look at how many soft goals we gave away and how many times we conceded in games we didn't dominate possession. That tells its own story as to how good he is. Whist it isnt his fault he is Hes certainly been the one to be found wanting this season more than the others.

Edited 11 October, 2012 by Turkish

[Chez]

He's certainly been fine at giving away penalties, scoring own goals and making rudimentary errors that have directly led to us conceding. He's perhaps the most un-fine defender I've seen in the Premier League for quite some time. In fact his woefulness at times has been quite spectacular.

 

I said "will" be fine. You write him off if you want, but I'm gonna give him a bit longer to find his feet.

[Chez]

Jos is an issue - when he tweets he's 'in a bad place right now' that's not where a Premiership footballer can be.

Both Fulham goals can be laid at his door.

Someone needs to sort his confidence out. He's not become a bad player overnight.

 

how the **** was the second goal his faulty? As usual Saints fans will jump on a players back at the smallest of opportunities. He's only human. Even the first goal he stuck a leg out to block a shot., Everyone does that, its a natural reaction. His positioning wasn't great and he went with the wrong foot, but bloody hell, some of the things Claus used to do made my eyes water compared to that and he was gods gift on here.

Edited 11 October, 2012 by Chez

[Saint Troy]

I'm amazed there are people on here who think he is a great defender and will be fine in the premier league. He really isn't. A few goals last season and walking around clapping the fans at the end of every game seemed to have fooled people into thinking he's some world class defender last season. A few bits of reality for you. Some people seem to be fooled into thinking he had a great partnership with Fonte last season. The reality was that we we're flat track bullies, most of our clean sheets came when we dominated games, how many games did we pick up points where we defended brilliantly and held onto a 1-0 win or a backs to the wall point? When under pressure this great partnership looked fragile and often gave away sloppy goals.

 

As soon as Jos arrived Fontes performances dropped off. For whatever reason the two of thm didn't look comfortable together. It's no coincidence that Fontes performances have picked up alongside Yoshida. A centre half is often as only good as his partner, look at how good Lundekvam was alongside Michael Svenson yet then how poor he looked alongside other partners. Centre backs are a unit and need understanding. For whatever reason Fonte and Hooliveld don't seem to have that.

 

I'm sure some people will point to the odd game here and there and be up in arms that I dare to say Hooliveld isn't the best defender ever to have played for us. Hes a good guy and by no means a terrible player, just not good enough and was never going to be good enough for the premier league. I did warn of this last season but was told i was wrong and he was brilliant. However, look over the course of last season and look at how many soft goals we gave away and how many times we conceded in games we didn't dominate possession. That tells its own story as to how good he is. Good defences don't do that.

 

For the record i think this is a good post and interesting and i agree with it. The only other thing is that we can say that Fonte is good but bad with Hooiveld yet we do not blame Fonte for Hooiveld being bad?

[Chez]

I'm amazed there are people on here who think he is a great defender and will be fine in the premier league. He really isn't. A few goals last season and walking around clapping the fans at the end of every game seemed to have fooled people into thinking he's some world class defender last season. A few bits of reality for you. Some people seem to be fooled into thinking he had a great partnership with Fonte last season. The reality was that we we're flat track bullies, most of our clean sheets came when we dominated games, how many games did we pick up points where we defended brilliantly and held onto a 1-0 win or a backs to the wall point? When under pressure this great partnership looked fragile and often gave away sloppy goals.

 

As soon as Jos arrived Fontes performances dropped off. For whatever reason the two of thm didn't look comfortable together. It's no coincidence that Fontes performances have picked up alongside Yoshida. A centre half is often as only good as his partner, look at how good Lundekvam was alongside Michael Svenson yet then how poor he looked alongside other partners. Centre backs are a unit and need understanding. For whatever reason Fonte and Hooliveld don't seem to have that.

 

I'm sure some people will point to the odd game here and there and be up in arms that I dare to say Hooliveld isn't the best defender ever to have played for us. Hes a good guy and by no means a terrible player, just not good enough and was never going to be good enough for the premier league. I did warn of this last season but was told i was wrong and he was brilliant. However, look over the course of last season and look at how many soft goals we gave away and how many times we conceded in games we didn't dominate possession. That tells its own story as to how good he is. Whist it isnt his fault he is Hes certainly been the one to be found wanting this season more than the others.

 

Not sure I agree with most of your points (although flat track bullies does ring very true having not beaten the top sides out of sight last season) but seeing as he's made mistakes my side of the argument is going to look a little thin right now.

 

Can't see anyone on this thread including myself and Dr Who (who are the only ones not laying into him) saying he is a "great defender" just that he'll be fine - he'll do a decent job for us this season.

[Legod Third Coming]

The first goal was his fault, the 2nd wasn't.

 

And that tweet was about how he felt immediately after the game, not a little expose to the World about his general mental stability.

 

The second his positioning was dreadful...

 

I haven't questioned his mental stability. But you'd have to be Stevie Wonder not to see the guy is low on confidence and by his own admission in a bad place - his tweets have all said as much, he's been very hard on himself this whole season (too hard on occasions in my view - better defenders than him will be done by players like Tevez).

 

He needs a boost to get back to where he was.

[ottery st mary]

Jose is on his way back to top form..

 

Hoover will be back and playing as well as he can...not as bad as peeps make out..

 

Lallana is working hard and playing well but will start hitting top form the next few games..

I would give the captaincy to Steve Davis..Great player..

 

JRod will also show his worth and be a star for Saints..

 

YES.....I am happy clappy and a Saints supporter.....Most importantly..super duper footer expert and everything said is about right..

 

We will move up the league table sooner than later...

 

COYS:)