A good man knows his limitations ...

[david in sweden]

Lots of different views about players we like / dislike..never rated etc, but looking at our present squad (not incl.new signings) we can see that we still have 7 players from L1 days.

KD, Seaborne, Fonte, Schneiderlin, Puncheon, Lallana and Lambert. (I won't print my views again, and many of us have said much the same things about them already)

 

Which means they have; either improved beyond all expectations, or they haven't been found out - YET.... (we'll know the answer by Christmas - if not before).

 

( a few who were there from the early days; Jaidi (ret.) Bart, Harding, Holmes have since moved on, and latecomers like A. Martin, Chaplow, SDR, Dickson and Sharp arrived later and still have something to prove. Are they the victims of the squad system?, OR... have they really found their level in the Championship.

 

It is no disgrace to not be able to get into the start line-up in a Prem. side.....which is all the more credit to older players like Ricky Lambert who have played there way up from L2 and L1.

 

Those named above have (for the most part) have shown that they can hold down a place - in a winning side - in at least two divisions. Not many players can say that. A handful of Championship clubs have been in that league for at least 5 or 6 seasons, several others have gone up ..only to come back down at the first hurdle, and they have to sell their best players and look for free transfers.

 

Relegation is not necessarily a condemnation of individual players, but more often the lack of ambition (and finance) by the club's management. Thankfully, we lack neither, as seen recently.

When players come and go it shows only the passage of time / circumstances in a profession where age and experience is a death-knell (for a player 30), whereas in the business /professional world it is sought after commodity. Break a leg at work, and you're back in a month or two..in football ...it's a career- threatening event.

 

Players who move on ..whether they are; the fan's favourites, a good club man ...or " we're glad to see the back of them " types, show that at the right time they can go gracefully (as seen with Barnard, Harding and Hammond) - and know their limitations. Good luck to them all.

Edited 1 September, 2012 by david in sweden

[pele]

Here here....the most educated statement I have read on here for ages!

[Saint Charlie]

Quality Post

[Toadhall Saint]

Good post - just waiting for the "I disagree............." brigade to turn up.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

I disagree.....

[Dalek2003]

Excellent post. It is important to be happy and feel successful and let us not forget, the Championship in particular is one of the best leagues in Europe !

[dronskisaint]

Intelligent post - I've voiced before that we owe Pardew a vote of thanks for the quality that he bought in to add to that already at the club. This has been taken to further levels by the meticulous and enthusiastic ministrations of NA who has also fostered a remarkable bonding within the squad that in no small way contributed to the successive promotions. That, I hope will continue...we need a tight and focused group to see us through the first year and beyond in the PL.

 

Sad to see the players go in many ways but they've all been privileged to play their part as we have been grateful to watch and support them and I wish them all well at the level that they eventually find. I hope we find in Mayuka the 'predator in the box' that Billy Sharp gave us...he is the one who I think we might miss in an 'impact sub' role but in NA/NC and the management team - I trust.

Edited 1 September, 2012 by dronskisaint
lost 'n'

[Wes Tender]

It goes to show that the purchases we made earlier on when we were in the third division were astute buys. Some were players who would do a decent job at that level and in the second division, but others were deemed good enough to potentially make the grade in the top flight too. I've said it before, but a pertinent point is that many of these players were captains of their former teams, so they were leaders, good pros. Both Pardew and Adkins have been good judges of a player and it takes skill to identify the right players at the right time.

 

But an additional factor is that there are only so many places available in the top teams and we have been lucky enough to have the money behind us to be a big fish in a little pond in both of the lower divisions. We have therefore been able to attract the better players and impress them with our ambition and our potential, so that if they stayed with us and played well, we offered the potential for them to either play in the Premier League or at least to raise their profile if they weren't deemed quite up to playing at that level. Players like Lallana and Lambert had faith in our ability and ambition to reach the top, but those you mention like Harding, Hammond and Barnard have done their future career prospects no harm at all by playing their part in helping us get there.

[homesick-saint]

This is a quality and interesting thread. I hope it continues that way.

[Dalek2003]

It goes to show that the purchases we made earlier on when we were in the third division were astute buys. Some were players who would do a decent job at that level and in the second division, but others were deemed good enough to potentially make the grade in the top flight too. I've said it before, but a pertinent point is that many of these players were captains of their former teams, so they were leaders, good pros. Both Pardew and Adkins have been good judges of a player and it takes skill to identify the right players at the right time.

 

But an additional factor is that there are only so many places available in the top teams and we have been lucky enough to have the money behind us to be a big fish in a little pond in both of the lower divisions. We have therefore been able to attract the better players and impress them with our ambition and our potential, so that if they stayed with us and played well, we offered the potential for them to either play in the Premier League or at least to raise their profile if they weren't deemed quite up to playing at that level. Players like Lallana and Lambert had faith in our ability and ambition to reach the top, but those you mention like Harding, Hammond and Barnard have done their future career prospects no harm at all by playing their part in helping us get there.

I agree with what you have siad. I suppose the main difference is that NA knew his stuff about L1 and NPC players having served as a manager in both leagues. The Premiership is the 'unknown' as far as NA is concerned and Premier players are a different animal. Certainly more egos abound and it will be harder for NA to convince some of them that his way is the best.

I think that is why the appointment of Luggy in 2004 was such a mistake.

[oldskoolsi]

SOmeof those players weren't bought as league one players though. So I don't think it's far to say if they are a success they have improved beyond all expectations.

[CanadaSaint]

Good post, David.

 

One of the things I can't wait to see is the degree to which our new signings help the players around them to look better. It's a potentially big plus that goes beyond getting the players we've signed.

 

One example, for me, is Danny Fox. If we can be fast and skillful attacking down our left side, opposing teams won't be quite so quick to take the risk of throwing their defensive players forward when they are attacking us down that side. That would help to minimize the impact of some of Fox's weaknesses.

 

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that this could also benefit our middle two at the back, because they won't be drawn out of the middle to cover Fox quite as often.

 

So, I'm looking for some of our longer term players to improve (or seem to have improved) as they play with better players.

[david in sweden]

homesick-saint[/b];1466505]This is a quality and interesting thread. I hope it continues that way.

 

THX. for the compliment. It was the culmination of several weeks "musings ", but I finally got down what I really felt about the squad.

[pressingon]

Great post and a very fair summary, I do think Pardew's part in our resurgance is under estimated in some quarters.

[Beachcombers Windowsill]

Intelligent post - I've voiced before that we owe Pardew a vote of thanks for the quality that he bought in to add to that already at the club.

 

One thing that you must give Pardew credit for is his player recruitment. Both at Saints and Newcastle he's done a stellar job in the transfer market.

[max_saints]

One thing that you must give Pardew credit for is his player recruitment. Both at Saints and Newcastle he's done a stellar job in the transfer market.

 

lambert and the likes of ba and cisse were excellent signings however I wonder if these should be credited more to the scouting team, have no idea myself to the works behind signing a player

[Saint Fan CaM]

A good OP and one which continues my post a little while ago about 'evolution or revolution'. It's clear that an aggressively ambitious club such as Saints will require a squad that expects a more rapid turnover. While Pardew recruited well, I would argue that it took NA to find the glue that bound the squad together and ultimately work well for him. The achievement in the Championship was assisted by the L1 promotion experience and I suspect the players in the team then had a particular affinity. The continuation of that team spirit is going to remain important and players such as KD, Jos, Adam, Morgan and Rickie will be important in achieving that.

[CB Fry]

lambert and the likes of ba and cisse were excellent signings however I wonder if these should be credited more to the scouting team, have no idea myself to the works behind signing a player

 

 

 

Pardew would have final say and Pardew is responible for putting the team out and Pardew is responsible for that team winning or losing. If Newcastle were appalling, no one would be blaming the scouting team.

 

The underlying resentment on this forum that Pardew has done bloody well at Newcastle is rather tiresome. He's a proven Premier League manager, as he was before he even turned up at SMS.

[Charlie Wayman]

Lots of different views about players we like / dislike..never rated etc, but looking at our present squad (not incl.new signings) we can see that we still have 7 players from L1 days.

KD, Seaborne, Fonte, Schneiderlin, Puncheon, Lallana and Lambert. (I won't print my views again, and many of us have said much the same things about them already)

 

Which means they have; either improved beyond all expectations, or they haven't been found out - YET.... (we'll know the answer by Christmas - if not before).

 

( a few who were there from the early days; Jaidi (ret.) Bart, Harding, Holmes have since moved on, and latecomers like A. Martin, Chaplow, SDR, Dickson and Sharp arrived later and still have something to prove. Are they the victims of the squad system?, OR... have they really found their level in the Championship.

 

It is no disgrace to not be able to get into the start line-up in a Prem. side.....which is all the more credit to older players like Ricky Lambert who have played there way up from L2 and L1.

 

Those named above have (for the most part) have shown that they can hold down a place - in a winning side - in at least two divisions. Not many players can say that. A handful of Championship clubs have been in that league for at least 5 or 6 seasons, several others have gone up ..only to come back down at the first hurdle, and they have to sell their best players and look for free transfers.

 

Relegation is not necessarily a condemnation of individual players, but more often the lack of ambition (and finance) by the club's management. Thankfully, we lack neither, as seen recently.

When players come and go it shows only the passage of time / circumstances in a profession where age and experience is a death-knell (for a player 30), whereas in the business /professional world it is sought after commodity. Break a leg at work, and you're back in a month or two..in football ...it's a career- threatening event.

 

Players who move on ..whether they are; the fan's favourites, a good club man ...or " we're glad to see the back of them " types, show that at the right time they can go gracefully (as seen with Barnard, Harding and Hammond) - and know their limitations. Good luck to them all.

 

This argument is so flawed and full of nonsense that it's hardly worth a reply but you're getting it anyway.

[La BoIS Saint]

Pardew would have final say and Pardew is responible for putting the team out and Pardew is responsible for that team winning or losing. If Newcastle were appalling, no one would be blaming the scouting team.

 

The underlying resentment on this forum that Pardew has done bloody well at Newcastle is rather tiresome. He's a proven Premier League manager, as he was before he even turned up at SMS.

 

Is there general resentment? I appreciate what Pardew did for us and am more than happy to see him do well at Newcastle.

[Wes Tender]

This argument is so flawed and full of nonsense that it's hardly worth a reply but you're getting it anyway.

 

So are you going to point out where the argument is flawed, or what is so nonsensical, or will we just have to accept that the only opinion worth hearing is yours, because as an Arsenal supporter, you know everything about football, including what makes a good player, one capable of playing to the same standard, regardless of what division they find themselves in?