Nlp

[Turkish]

Nurolinguistic Programming for those that dont know. What are peoples thoughts on this? Up until last week i'd thought all that sort of stuff was a load of nonsense and most people who get involved in that sort of stuff a bit wierd. However, last week i had the pleasure of meeting and spending a bit of time with a very succesful and plesant man who had trebled the turnover of his company in 6 years, £30m-£90m. He puts a lot of his success down to NLP. When he told me abit more about it it seemed to make a lot of sense and I found it all very interesting, if a little to good to be true. He assures me though that it changed his life and played a huge part in his success. So i put it out to the spazboard, what are your thought? Load of bollo*ks or life changing stuff?

[Bearsy]

was hoping for nips

[buctootim]

Never used it or seen it used in real life but learnt a bit about the theory in psychology at university. Its a recognised technique for modifying unwanted patterns of behaviour. Trouble is some clowns have taken the technique and used it to run think yourself succesful seminars which make them a lot of money but Im not sure it helps the people who attend them much.

 

imo in business if you've already got a sound idea and the requisite skills NLP could help you be more focussed and give you an additional edge. It wont help those who just want to give up a dead end job and become rich and successful ('last year I was broke and now I drive an Aston Martin') inside a year.

[sambosa75]

As far as I know Turkish you work in sales. If you do any face to face sales, NLP is huge. I used to run a recruitment firm and brought in an NLP guru who guaranteed x amount profit growth or his fee back. It worked an absolute treat.

[sambosa75]

Never used it or seen it used in real life but learnt a bit about the theory in psychology at university. Its a recognised technique for modifying unwanted patterns of behaviour. Trouble is some clowns have taken the technique and used it to run think yourself succesful seminars which make them a lot of money but Im not sure it helps the people who attend them much.

 

imo in business if you've already got a sound idea and the requisite skills NLP could help you be more focussed and give you an additional edge. It wont help those who just want to give up a dead end job and become rich and successful ('last year I was broke and now I drive an Aston Martin') inside a year.

 

Obviously goes without saying this is key too.

[manji]

One or two seminars wont change anything. But if you have regular training it does work. You even find yourself using it with friends and family.

[Turkish]

As far as I know Turkish you work in sales. If you do any face to face sales, NLP is huge. I used to run a recruitment firm and brought in an NLP guru who guaranteed x amount profit growth or his fee back. It worked an absolute treat.

 

Yeah, the guy i am refering to is Managing Director of one of my customers. One of the key things he said to me was always leave what he called "an anchor" something that the person you are meeting with can use to remember you by in years to come. He actually said i am already doing some of NLP without realising it. I'm in Channel sales, all i do is face to face stuff really, so very much based on relationships, which was one of the main reasons why i was interested.

[sambosa75]

Yeah, the guy i am refering to is Managing Director of one of my customers. One of the key things he said to me was always leave what he called "an anchor" something that the person you are meeting with can use to remember you by in years to come. He actually said i am already doing some of NLP without realising it. I'm in Channel sales, all i do is face to face stuff really, so very much based on relationships, which was one of the main reasons why i was interested.

 

In the case you are probably familiar with the concept "mirror selling". Basically copying your propects mannerisms and movements to sub-conciously build empathy and rapport. A lot of this is NLP related. Most decent sales people will do this without even thinking. In fact, I'd go as far to say if you are doing it whilst thinking about, it will look forced and as if you are taking the ****.

[Huffton]

was hoping for nips

 

Here ya go

 

[Turkish]

In the case you are probably familiar with the concept "mirror selling". Basically copying your propects mannerisms and movements to sub-conciously build empathy and rapport. A lot of this is NLP related. Most decent sales people will do this without even thinking. In fact, I'd go as far to say if you are doing it whilst thinking about, it will look forced and as if you are taking the ****.

 

Yep done all that, done loads of sales courses, some good some bad. I'd heard about NLP before but it was the way he said it changed his life, much more than just work that appealed.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Do it Turkish, those printer cartridges will fly out the door.

 

 

Btw like Bearsy, I was either expecting some nips or some anti Japanese stuff to enjoy. Bitterly disappointed.

[TopGun]

As far as I know Turkish you work in sales. If you do any face to face sales, NLP is huge. I used to run a recruitment firm and brought in an NLP guru who guaranteed x amount profit growth or his fee back. It worked an absolute treat.

 

What exactly is it? Can you give some examples please?

[dubai_phil]

Turkish. You do not have to read every book and take every NLP course. There are a lot of people out there who make damned good money from it.

 

However, the core concepts had an intense impact on my life not only in business but also in my approach to life. I am lucky enough to have a great pal who got into this from a career change into Hypnotherapy then to stage hypnosis then NLP and is now way past all that.

 

What I saw with that was actually the power of the mind, how understanding the basics of psychology can help ANY sales person and how the key principles of NLP work EVERY time.

 

In my case a simple example - My company X sold boxes that sat on the floor and went beep. They were bloody good at it (in fact the vest on the planet) However one day the big boss decided we should make and sell "Integrated IT Solutions".

 

Well our strength was our partners who sold beeping boxes, and after spending a fortune on marketing & training campaigns they still wanted - a discount on the beeping boxes.

 

So we passed it over to NLP and related "mind games" to induce change - people thought I was nuts (and still do) BUT the thing is...

 

It worked, within 2 years we sold more Integrated Solutions through our box shifters than the whole of France. In 3 years we were selling more than the "supposed" experts in the UK. After 4 years it became company wide standard.

 

So summary.

 

Understand NLP and it's core and as a brain in a business you will move forward. The troops in the trenches may need more handholding.

 

One hell of a lot of what goes on at SMS these days has it's roots in this. It works.

 

If you are serious then ping me

[dubai_phil]

What exactly is it? Can you give some examples please?

 

It is a series of advanced Sales Techniques that use the way a human brain works to "hypnotise" you into buying from the practitioner.

 

Programming - in the same way you can write a script for a PC you can speak a script that will bury itself deep in the subconcious mind.

 

Utterly Simplistic example - When you next look up and see blue sky you will think of a holiday in the sun, when you think of a holiday in the sun you will remember Dubai_Phil saying go get a book out the library about NLP. When you use NLP on your first customer you will remember Phil & Dubai and Bullfrogs and you will want to find a cocktail bar to have one to celebrate in.

 

(OBVIOUSLY a hell of a lot more to it than that but it is about understanding the customer and making him remember you - It's like "The Science" of Selling)

[Tokyo-Saint]

Is this a way of making money out of Jedi mind tricks?

 

Turkish - "this isn't the paper you are looking for"

[Guided Missile]

Nurolinguistic Programming for those that dont know.

It's neuro-linguistic programming for those that do know and is an example of pseudo-science and physco-babble dreamt up by stoners in California, the teaching of which presumably finances their drug habits. I would rank it up there with Dianetics as a theatre of the absurd and is fodder for the feeble minded among us with less than enquiring minds. The type of enquiring minds that would ask, before paying some dreamer, good money, in return for bullsh!t, "Where is the scientific evidence that this bo££ox is effective?".

 

Of course, there is no scientific evidence of any sort, apart from the anecdotal gossip from the snake oil salesmen or the gullible.

 

If the techniques were that enriching, Phil could afford to buy a business class seat, rather than blagging one.

[dubai_phil]

It's neuro-linguistic programming for those that do know and is an example of pseudo-science and physco-babble dreamt up by stoners in California, the teaching of which presumably finances their drug habits. I would rank it up there with Dianetics as a theatre of the absurd and is fodder for the feeble minded among us with less than enquiring minds. The type of enquiring minds that would ask, before paying some dreamer, good money, in return for bullsh!t, "Where is the scientific evidence that this bo££ox is effective?".

 

Of course, there is no scientific evidence of any sort, apart from the anecdotal gossip from the snake oil salesmen or the gullible.

 

If the techniques were that enriching, Phil could afford to buy a business class seat, rather than blagging one.

I did for 10 years.

 

Then I got divorced.

 

HTH

 

Note though, I made the point that NLP is full of "Time Share Salesmen Sharks" types. I also said words to the effect that it was not necessary to learn it by heart but to understand the core concepts.

 

There are many on here who would fail dismally and then diss the whole thing, as it requires 1) An ability to seek to understand someone else other than yourself and 2) an open mind.

 

The main people who knock it are the ones who know that selling is a bulls1t job and it is just about being able to have the gift of the gab and talk a lot.

Edited 29 August, 2012 by dubai_phil

[Turkish]

I did for 10 years.

 

Then I got divorced.

 

HTH

 

Note though, I made the point that NLP is full of "Time Share Salesmen Sharks" types. I also said words to the effect that it was not necessary to learn it by heart but to understand the core concepts.

 

There are many on here who would fail dismally and then diss the whole thing, as it requires 1) An ability to seek to understand someone else other than yourself and 2) an open mind.

 

The main people who knock it are the ones who know that selling is a bulls1t job and it is just about being able to have the gift of the gab and talk a lot.

 

I always laugh at people who knock people who work in sales. A few of the usual up their own arse people on here do. I think, they assume it's nothing more than making 80 phone calls a day and asking people if they want to buy anything. There are a few knobs that give the job a bad name but the ones that are good at it in my industry and I mean very good, high level solution sales consultants are incredibly talented people, work very hard and a lot of them earn more than solicitors and doctors.

[Torres]

I always laugh at people who knock people who work in sales. A few of the usual up their own arse people on here do. I think, they assume it's nothing more than making 80 phone calls a day and asking people if they want to buy anything. There are a few knobs that give the job a bad name but the ones that are good at it in my industry and I mean very good, high level solution sales consultants are incredibly talented people, work very hard and a lot of them earn more than solicitors and doctors.

 

Don't be so harsh on yourself.

[JPTCount]

it's just common sense, with added placebo

[dubai_phil]

it's just common sense, with added placebo

 

But that is the whole point.

 

So many people take so much baggage into "Selling Situations".

 

The true secret of sales success is one question...

 

Whadda ya want?

 

The HOURS of B***s Salespeople I have had to sit through while they tell me what they have and forget to actually ask what I want..... (Poor Salespeople = wannabe Politicians maybe)

 

It IS common sense, it's just that is a subject that somehow seems not to be taught in schools (or life) any more

[Saintandy666]

I have family who are in to this kind of thing, as in they are instructors or life trainers or whatever they call themselves. I really think that it is one of those things, rather like hypnosis which will work if you want it to work and it won't if you don't. Like JPTCount said, placebo effect.

[JPTCount]

But that is the whole point.

 

So many people take so much baggage into "Selling Situations".

 

The true secret of sales success is one question...

 

Whadda ya want?

 

The HOURS of B***s Salespeople I have had to sit through while they tell me what they have and forget to actually ask what I want..... (Poor Salespeople = wannabe Politicians maybe)

 

It IS common sense, it's just that is a subject that somehow seems not to be taught in schools (or life) any more

 

imo u cant teach common sense, it is observation with applied logic, and even knowing the theory doesn't help with practice.

 

it's like leadership or management, there are certain techniques u can learn and apply, but no situation in life is ever like the case study, u have the quality or u don't

[tpbury]

Not an expert by any means, but I view 'NLP' as 'State the benefits (of whatever you're trying to sell), repeat the benefits and demonstrate the benefits repeatedly'. It's not really about sales, it's about telling someone you can do something and then doing it. It's not a trick, it's asserting yerself! I admit many people will fail between the promise and the delivery.

 

In regular work terms it's about suggesting that workers think about how and why they do things.

[Turkish]

I have family who are in to this kind of thing, as in they are instructors or life trainers or whatever they call themselves. I really think that it is one of those things, rather like hypnosis which will work if you want it to work and it won't if you don't. Like JPTCount said, placebo effect.

 

I thought you might have......

[Secret Site Agent]

Nurolinguistic Programming for those that dont know. What are peoples thoughts on this? Up until last week i'd thought all that sort of stuff was a load of nonsense and most people who get involved in that sort of stuff a bit wierd. However, last week i had the pleasure of meeting and spending a bit of time with a very succesful and plesant man who had trebled the turnover of his company in 6 years, £30m-£90m. He puts a lot of his success down to NLP. When he told me abit more about it it seemed to make a lot of sense and I found it all very interesting, if a little to good to be true. He assures me though that it changed his life and played a huge part in his success. So i put it out to the spazboard, what are your thought? Load of bollo*ks or life changing stuff?

 

My company have used it for behaviourial safety on our construction sites. I have been trained in it and we use it regularly for briefings and tool box talks and have two members of our workforce trained as on site coaches. The success is that we have reduced our accident/incident rate by 28% and for the first time in 8 years we have beat our target for reduction in accidents on site, which is quite something. I have seen some of the little tricks work, and have used them, especially with regard to winning discussions and getting the point across, and changing peoples perceptions. It's too much to go into here, but there is a section in my training, where the trainer does 'NLP magic', where he shows how it's used by magicians to do certain magic tricks, (such as mind reading, guessing which hand an item is in) and how fake psychics use it to gain insight to an individual to find information on a deceased relative. This is worth the training alone, and i'm sure it's going to get me laid at some stage. Also the section on microexpressions, to find out peoples real feelings when you talk to them is facinating as well.

[Secret Site Agent]

It's neuro-linguistic programming for those that do know and is an example of pseudo-science and physco-babble dreamt up by stoners in California, the teaching of which presumably finances their drug habits. I would rank it up there with Dianetics as a theatre of the absurd and is fodder for the feeble minded among us with less than enquiring minds. The type of enquiring minds that would ask, before paying some dreamer, good money, in return for bullsh!t, "Where is the scientific evidence that this bo££ox is effective?".

 

Of course, there is no scientific evidence of any sort, apart from the anecdotal gossip from the snake oil salesmen or the gullible.

 

If the techniques were that enriching, Phil could afford to buy a business class seat, rather than blagging one.

 

GM, Let me ask you the following:

 

Imagine a hot summer’s day. You’re standing in your kitchen at the end of the day holding an orange you’ve taken from the fridge. Look at the outside of it, its orange waxy skin with green marks at the ends. Feel how cold it is in your hand. Raise it to your nose and smell it. Mmmm. Press it gently and notice the weight of the orangen in the palm of your hand. Now take a knife and cut it in half. Hear the juices start to run and notice that the smell is stronger now. Bite deeply into

the orange and allow the juice to swirl around in your mouth.

 

Wow, you're mouth is becomming wet because your saliva glands are starting to work.

 

You'll now lie, and say it didn't happen. You're mouth is 'dry'.

 

You'll now wonder how this has happened.

 

And so will the rest of you.

 

NLP isn't about 'pseudo-science' and 'physco-babble'. It's about realising the way to get a message across, and the way to get people to trust you. It's also about putting into words what naturally you do anyway. It's all about Rapport.

 

If i met you on a plane and told you I was a Saints fan, you would start to trust me, and wait for the next thing to come out of my mouth to confirm it. If I told you I was a Pmpey fan, you would take a step back and not trust me until I spoke again and convinced you I could be trusted.

[stug76]

Interesting subject, are there any decent online resources to get some more info?

[Saintandy666]

I thought you might have......

 

I have experienced everything there is to be experienced Turkish. You should know this by now.

[JPTCount]

GM, Let me ask you the following:

 

Imagine a hot summer’s day. You’re standing in your kitchen at the end of the day holding an orange you’ve taken from the fridge. Look at the outside of it, its orange waxy skin with green marks at the ends. Feel how cold it is in your hand. Raise it to your nose and smell it. Mmmm. Press it gently and notice the weight of the orangen in the palm of your hand. Now take a knife and cut it in half. Hear the juices start to run and notice that the smell is stronger now. Bite deeply into

the orange and allow the juice to swirl around in your mouth.

 

Wow, you're mouth is becomming wet because your saliva glands are starting to work.

 

You'll now lie, and say it didn't happen. You're mouth is 'dry'.

 

You'll now wonder how this has happened.

 

And so will the rest of you.

 

NLP isn't about 'pseudo-science' and 'physco-babble'. It's about realising the way to get a message across, and the way to get people to trust you. It's also about putting into words what naturally you do anyway. It's all about Rapport.

 

If i met you on a plane and told you I was a Saints fan, you would start to trust me, and wait for the next thing to come out of my mouth to confirm it. If I told you I was a Pmpey fan, you would take a step back and not trust me until I spoke again and convinced you I could be trusted.

 

for starters, who keeps oranges in the fridge?

 

but seriously, that's more descriptive language and playing the numbers than psycho babble, and even then it's just a bit Pavlovs dogs... everyone likes to refresh on a hot day, and 99% of people like oranges, u described an orange, thus bringing up the subconscious effect of making my mouth start to salivate because of my past experience with oranges and my brain remembers them as a tasty, refreshing treat. that's just probability & human wiring, it's the same principle Disney used for thier films, one tactic they use is the dead mother/father no1 likes loosing thier parents, so orphanize a child an immediately the audience feel sad, most will cry, and they will empathise with the character, bambi, dumbo, lion king, finding nemo...

 

and the saints/pompey thing is just common ground, it's easier to chat to someone if u have something to talk about the u are both comfortable with, this is just social interaction, I'm never gonna have a good convo with my nan-in-law about knitting or computer games but we find a middle ground with football and racism :-P

 

u only get one chance to make a first impression and we all make a quick assessment of the person, and it's based on experience. it's why u go to an interview clean and in a suit, rather than smelling of booze with kebab down ur top.

 

and wud u really trust someone more based on thier colours, I've been dicked over by saints fans, arsenal fans, spurs fans, ppl who dont support anyone, but no pompey fans spring to mind.

 

trust has to be earned, and shifty salesmen who employ obvious tactics badly have made me leave the shop, I HATE that touch on the shoulder to say we've made a connection. if I want something I'll buy it, if I dont want something ull struggle to make me look twice, but I make the salesman work for it n allow him to think he's 'winning' to get a better deal, reversed his sales chi ****erz!

Edited 30 August, 2012 by JPTCount

[Guided Missile]

GM, Let me ask you the following:

 

Imagine a hot summer’s day. You’re standing in your kitchen at the end of the day holding an orange you’ve taken from the fridge. Look at the outside of it, its orange waxy skin with green marks at the ends. Feel how cold it is in your hand. Raise it to your nose and smell it. Mmmm. Press it gently and notice the weight of the orangen in the palm of your hand. Now take a knife and cut it in half. Hear the juices start to run and notice that the smell is stronger now. Bite deeply into

the orange and allow the juice to swirl around in your mouth.

I'm guessing that you thought "The Matrix" was a documentary...

[shurlock]

I always laugh at people who knock people who work in sales. A few of the usual up their own arse people on here do. I think, they assume it's nothing more than making 80 phone calls a day and asking people if they want to buy anything. There are a few knobs that give the job a bad name but the ones that are good at it in my industry and I mean very good, high level solution sales consultants are incredibly talented people, work very hard and a lot of them earn more than solicitors and doctors.

 

Jesus was dead and 12 men went out and sold the world.

[Secret Site Agent]

for starters, who keeps oranges in the fridge?

 

but seriously, that's more descriptive language and playing the numbers than psycho babble, and even then it's just a bit Pavlovs dogs... everyone likes to refresh on a hot day, and 99% of people like oranges, u described an orange, thus bringing up the subconscious effect of making my mouth start to salivate because of my past experience with oranges and my brain remembers them as a tasty, refreshing treat. that's just probability & human wiring, it's the same principle Disney used for thier films, one tactic they use is the dead mother/father no1 likes loosing thier parents, so orphanize a child an immediately the audience feel sad, most will cry, and they will empathise with the character, bambi, dumbo, lion king, finding nemo...

 

and the saints/pompey thing is just common ground, it's easier to chat to someone if u have something to talk about the u are both comfortable with, this is just social interaction, I'm never gonna have a good convo with my nan-in-law about knitting or computer games but we find a middle ground with football and racism :-P

 

u only get one chance to make a first impression and we all make a quick assessment of the person, and it's based on experience. it's why u go to an interview clean and in a suit, rather than smelling of booze with kebab down ur top.

 

and wud u really trust someone more based on thier colours, I've been dicked over by saints fans, arsenal fans, spurs fans, ppl who dont support anyone, but no pompey fans spring to mind.

 

trust has to be earned, and shifty salesmen who employ obvious tactics badly have made me leave the shop, I HATE that touch on the shoulder to say we've made a connection. if I want something I'll buy it, if I dont want something ull struggle to make me look twice, but I make the salesman work for it n allow him to think he's 'winning' to get a better deal, reversed his sales chi ****erz!

 

JPT, for a start, as my moniker suggests, i'm NOT a salesman. My involvement comes from my industry injuring 64000 people a year, and the fact that with all the hard hats, vest, risk assesments we STILL couldn't stop injuring people, we just couldn't be prosecuted for it as we had done our Duty of Care. As I mentioned above, NLP is the colective name for everything you have described and more. It deals with the way we look at things, and how we react to others. It's not about any mind control tricks, and it isn't related to Pavlov's reaction theory. It does deal with learnt behaviours, and being a Saints fan is a learnt behaviour, so is distrust of Portsmouth. That is not to say there isn't good and bad in every group, but it's an understanding of why, and how to break that. Our system deals with five currencies for why accidents happen.

 

Why don't you keep an orange in the fridge? Why don't you keep an orange in the fridge!

[JPTCount]

JPT, for a start, as my moniker suggests, i'm NOT a salesman. My involvement comes from my industry injuring 64000 people a year, and the fact that with all the hard hats, vest, risk assesments we STILL couldn't stop injuring people, we just couldn't be prosecuted for it as we had done our Duty of Care. As I mentioned above, NLP is the colective name for everything you have described and more. It deals with the way we look at things, and how we react to others. It's not about any mind control tricks, and it isn't related to Pavlov's reaction theory. It does deal with learnt behaviours, and being a Saints fan is a learnt behaviour, so is distrust of Portsmouth. That is not to say there isn't good and bad in every group, but it's an understanding of why, and how to break that. Our system deals with five currencies for why accidents happen.

 

Why don't you keep an orange in the fridge? Why don't you keep an orange in the fridge!

 

calm down, i know ur not a salesman, i never said u we're, i just used it as an example/added endnote on the trust issue u mentioned, as i have direct experience with them. and i thought ur example of saints/pompey was a bad one as my learnt behaviour does not make me distrust pompey fans, stone island clad tw*ts would have been a better example.

 

and i didn't say it was mind control, it's just understanding basic human instinct, the pavlovs dogs reference was to the subconscious salivating, rather than the actual reaction theory.

 

as i said before its just common sense, with added placebo. u can call a book a shoe but it's still a book. I'm not saying it doesn't work it clearly does, but have people really only been doing it since the 70s...?

 

and my fridge is too full of fresh food that needs to be kept in the fridge, i don't put ketchup or bread in it either! fruit goes in the fruit bowl until it starts to mould, then the bin.