dubai_phil Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 http://sfcplayerstats.wordpress.com/2012/08/27/guly-do-prado/ Just came up on Twitter Ernest Zambucco @Zambucco #SaintsFC For all Guly Do Prado haters, read 'em and weep http://wp.me/p2kngw-1e via @wordpressdotcom I read it - makes some very valid points and I still think Guly has the makings of a PL player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 He had a good game against City, we all know he's capable of a good game. Consistency is his problem, he goes missing regularly. Time will tell but I think he'll be on the bench a lot once we get these signings sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExSt Peter Saint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 What the stats don't show is how long he spends on the ball when he could have passed earlier and made something happen. I also think that the stat about tackling is important, because that shows that he holds onto the ball too long and is dispossessed far too often. I'm not a big Guly hater, by the way, but I thought he was a really weak link at the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 August, 2012 Author Share Posted 27 August, 2012 During the City game Guly lost the ball 13 times, Adam Lallana actually gave the ball away more than any other Saints player, 16 times. However, Guly won back possession in midfield 4 times, this was the joint highest in the Saints team. Looking at the Wigan game where some Saints fans thought Guly was are weak link…. In total he made 27 passes, 25 were completed (93%). This was the joint highest with Morgan Schneiderlin. His passing accuracy in the Saint’s half was 75%, in the attacking half 86% and the final third was 100%. Looking at Guly’s possession stats, he lost the ball 14 times. Again Lallana lost the ball most, 24 times. So the real issue seems to be that for a winger/AM he does not win enough tackles. Wonder what Mick Channon's tackle stats were like? No not saying Guly could be Mick just a like for like comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Dunno bout passing stats, depends what you're trying to do with it really like Central Defenders often have good passing stats cos they're just knocking it 10 yards back to the goalkeeper the whole time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Half hearted tackles... Coach that in to him and reckon he'll be an effective player consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 You can prove (or disprove) anything with statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 So the real issue seems to be that for a winger/AM he does not win enough tackles. Wonder what Mick Channon's tackle stats were like? No not saying Guly could be Mick just a like for like comparison but from what I saw (on the web)...lallana was probably our most threatening player..forced the keeper to be Man of the Match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 It's early in the season, neither the team or individuals can be properly judged yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Unfortunately Dubai, he is Guly so every bad point is scrutinised, noted down and berated and every positive basically forgotten. This is the exact opposite to Lallana, not slagging Lallana its just inconsistant. For instance, that goal, last minute header that Pompey scored last year ? The one Guly failed to jump high enough to bloke etc etc ? The man that scored was being marked by Adam..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opthomps Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 The eyes don't lie and he was rotten against Wigan, on the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudders Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 It's early in the season, neither the team or individuals can be properly judged yet. Since when have you been one to wait before making judgements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Lizzard Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Guly is a teriffic player and will improve along with the others as they learn how quick the prem is. Also he'll play wherever he's asked to. Great attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 The eyes don't lie and he was rotten against Wigan, on the whole. No but the mind is easily biased Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Unfortunately Dubai, he is Guly so every bad point is scrutinised, noted down and berated and every positive basically forgotten. This is the exact opposite to Lallana, not slagging Lallana its just inconsistant. For instance, that goal, last minute header that Pompey scored last year ? The one Guly failed to jump high enough to bloke etc etc ? The man that scored was being marked by Adam..... It was noticeable that when James Ward Prowse gave the ball away cheaply on saturday hardly a whisper. When Guly did something virtually identical everyone around me went nuts screaming to get him off. He was actually quite good in the first half. Unfortunately there are a lot of in our support who dont get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Since when have you been one to wait before making judgements? All my judgements and opinions are very carefully considered based on evidence and with a litlle bit of conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 I don't hate Guly, but he was poor on Saturday. He has a really annoying habit of holding the ball for too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 What do you expect from our fans? They regularly prove on here they know jack sh!t about football. Guly is a decent player, and really has done a lot to get us to the Premiership in the last couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 August, 2012 Author Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Unfortunately Dubai, he is Guly so every bad point is scrutinised, noted down and berated and every positive basically forgotten. This is the exact opposite to Lallana, not slagging Lallana its just inconsistant. For instance, that goal, last minute header that Pompey scored last year ? The one Guly failed to jump high enough to bloke etc etc ? The man that scored was being marked by Adam..... Made a point about Adam after the Citeh game and we saw it again v Wigan. He still takes an nPc two touches. However both he & Guly will improve because if the Stats have spotted it then to be sure the coaching staff have. Adam makes his mistakes around the box atm, Guly needs to do the same rather than around the half way line. IMHO he is a good player and can become better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 I think he frustrates people because he shows flashes of brilliance but just isn't consistent enough. On Saturday he slowed the game down an awful lot and too often held the ball and then made a pass backwards when the through ball or attacking run was on - that's probably why he had the most completed passes. Stats in themselves don't actually tell you that much about s game. He's also made a lot of tackles because he was caugh on the ball an awful lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Shango Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 The eyes don't lie and he was rotten against Wigan, on the whole. Better than most on our team. Did you not see some of his crosses, like the one to Lambert just before the Wigan goal? The important thing is Adkins rates him, and I trust his opinion over the idiots in the crowd who get on his back. Most people who don't like him don't know their arse from their elbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 If it was Guly who had come through the academy and Lallana or JWP who had been brought in when we were in lg1 attitudes would be reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Better than most on our team. Did you not see some of his crosses, like the one to Lambert just before the Wigan goal? The important thing is Adkins rates him, and I trust his opinion over the idiots in the crowd who get on his back. Most people who don't like him don't know their arse from their elbow. Agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 If it was Guly who had come through the academy and Lallana or JWP who had been brought in when we were in lg1 attitudes would be reversed. My attitude would be exactly the same, on Saturday he was poor, Lallana was an attacking threat. This is my opinion based on what I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 What do you expect from our fans? They regularly prove on here they know jack sh!t about football. Guly is a decent player, and really has done a lot to get us to the Premiership in the last couple of years. But that is the very essence of being a football fan. Everyone can have an opinion. Everyone knows best. Memories are short and loyalty is fickle. When the team is successful all the fans knew this was the way and when we are down we all know where things are going rong. The Drama is played out with passion and intensity but without pain and bloodshed. That is the essence of the football supporteer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 My attitude would be exactly the same, on Saturday he was poor, Lallana was an attacking threat. This is my opinion based on what I saw. I dont disagree necessarily about Sunday, it wasnt his best game - but in general a lot of people fail to see the good stuff he does. Weirdly there was a couple behind me during the match; the bloke was giving him stick all through the match whilst the wife was gently pointing out all the good runs moves and passes - which the guy acknowledged and then continued with the abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 I don't hate Guly, but he was poor on Saturday. He has a really annoying habit of holding the ball for too long. Another one... I noticed a player taking far too long on theball against city, that was young adam, some tomes his fault, other times it depends what the movement is like around him. Difference is I see his merits to the team, as I do with Guly, players are going to make mistakes, course they will, at the moment we have no one better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 If it was Guly who had come through the academy and Lallana or JWP who had been brought in when we were in lg1 attitudes would be reversed. Exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 (edited) The eyes don't lie and he was rotten against Wigan, on the whole. Far from it in fact, the eyes often lie, as proved by this remark. Everyone was poor, but Guly was one of the least poor players on Saturday. His poorer moments came when we changed formation from the 4-3-3 to 4-4-2, when Guly dropped back into MF, his best moments were when he was playing as part of an attacking 3 (you may want to call what he and JRod were playing as MF, but it was a very different MF role than the one that he was asked to do after Sharp came on). I was actually quite pleased on Saturday, we sat a little way away from where we sat all last season, 2 blocks, and it was very pleasant not to hear anyone around me mouthing off about Guly, the bigots that used to sit just in front of us were thankfully nowhere to be seen or heard. I was only disappointed a bit later when we were in the shop getting my daughter a new shirt (with Guly printed on the back) to heara bigoted bloke in front spouting off about being happy to have anything printed on the back of a shirt as long as it was not "any Guly crap". Quite an old guy, probably my age, late 50s or so, wish we didn't have these type of ignorant ****ssupporting my team, but sadly I guess they are entitled to their misguided opinion. Edited 27 August, 2012 by VectisSaint Hadn't finished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Another one... I noticed a player taking far too long on theball against city, that was young adam, some tomes his fault, other times it depends what the movement is like around him. Difference is I see his merits to the team, as I do with Guly, players are going to make mistakes, course they will, at the moment we have no one better. Guly was excellent against city in 2 positions, both up front and then 'in the hole'. I would prefer to see him in the hole and then Lallana on the right. I know inside out wingers are the flavour of the day at the moment, but if we sign Ramirez, a mobile trio of Guly, Lallana and Ramirez allowed to roam would rip teams to shred. 2 tricky, skillful dribblers, one pace and power. Could really work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 If it was Guly who had come through the academy and Lallana or JWP who had been brought in when we were in lg1 attitudes would be reversed. Seriously? I get that Guly is under-rated by a lot of people, but are you genuinely arguing that Lallana isn't a better player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 people made their minds up long ago about Guly. Nothing will change them. He was up and down in Saturday, as were others like Lambert for example, but as usual Guly is singled out for criticism. I actually thought Sharp was woeful when he came on, showing his true championship ability. How about we look at what he offered us in terms of ball retention and threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Better than most on our team. Did you not see some of his crosses, like the one to Lambert just before the Wigan goal? The important thing is Adkins rates him, and I trust his opinion over the idiots in the crowd who get on his back. Most people who don't like him don't know their arse from their elbow. This. He also set up the best chance in the 1st half, was it Lallana's pile driver (sorry I guess I could check on the highlights)? He made the move of the match driving diagonally across midfield and then providing a great pass, but no-one notices the set up 3 passes before the final touch. He is not the greatest player in the world, but the abuse he takes at the ground and especially from a few on here is just unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Seriously? I get that Guly is under-rated by a lot of people, but are you genuinely arguing that Lallana isn't a better player? He isn't saying that at all, but he's saying that peoples attitudes differ dependent on how the player came to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerfryisalegend Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 It's funny how people see things, Guly was ok in the first half. The worst players for me - Fox, his positioning was shocking he gave Boyce far to much space and time on the ball and Fonte, he was pulled all over the place by average players, they were the standout weak links for me not Guly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 August, 2012 Author Share Posted 27 August, 2012 people made their minds up long ago about Guly. Nothing will change them. He was up and down in Saturday, as were others like Lambert for example, but as usual Guly is singled out for criticism. I actually thought Sharp was woeful when he came on, showing his true championship ability. How about we look at what he offered us in terms of ball retention and threat. Very good point. Billy is a quality goal scorer but the PL needs more than that from a solo front man, and MOST PL teams play versions of the 4-3-3 and it is very hard to see where Billy would fit into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Seriously? I get that Guly is under-rated by a lot of people, but are you genuinely arguing that Lallana isn't a better player? I dont think thats quite the point he was making, but can see how it looked that way Fwiw, I dont either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 August, 2012 Author Share Posted 27 August, 2012 It's funny how people see things, Guly was ok in the first half. The worst players for me - Fox, his positioning was shocking he gave Boyce far to much space and time on the ball and Fonte, he was pulled all over the place by average players, they were the standout weak links for me not Guly. Fonte was awful second half agree with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millbrook Saint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Thought he was one of our best players Saturday, particularly in the first half, I thought he fell away a bit in the second, he seems to me to have that bit of skill to keep the ball just out of reach of the opposition. A couple of times I saw a couple of players on him and he came away with the ball before finding a pass to one of our players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Billy is not good enough for the PL IMO Would happily be proven wrong though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 people made their minds up long ago about Guly. Nothing will change them. He was up and down in Saturday, as were others like Lambert for example, but as usual Guly is singled out for criticism. I actually thought Sharp was woeful when he came on, showing his true championship ability. How about we look at what he offered us in terms of ball retention and threat. Why does everyone have to go comparison shopping whenever there is a criticism levelled at Guly? "Well if you think he was sh*t, what about Sharp, he was poor too." Its such a weird statement to make, as if one other player having a complete mare absolves blame of another who was slightly less poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 (edited) He isn't saying that at all, but he's saying that peoples attitudes differ dependent on how the player came to the club. Ok! I don't think Tim is right about that though, I can think of plenty of youth products that got the dogs abuse (McGoldrick, Lloyd James, Kenwyne Jones, that centre back christ what was his name the one who kept giving away penalties) and plenty of players we brought in what were crowd favourites even beyond their abilities (Chaplow, Prutton, Saejs, that hairy right back from sweden) I reckon he's under-rated (if he is under-rated) pretty much entirely cos of his languid running style. Edited 27 August, 2012 by Bearsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Why does everyone have to go comparison shopping whenever there is a criticism levelled at Guly? "Well if you think he was sh*t, what about Sharp, he was poor too." Its such a weird statement to make, as if one other player having a complete mare absolves blame of another who was slightly less poor. What posters want you to do is list all the players who were rubbish and not just Guly in every post about the subject. No, I don't understand it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Guly's problem against Wigan was the same as Rodriguez in that he wasn't really suited to the role. To play out wide you really need some pace or skill to take on a man and get to the byline. He just doesn't have that. He is a neat passer, he knows how to finish and is fairly good in the air but he never once looked like stretching Wigan's defence. He was always cutting inside into a crowd on players. He was good enough at keeping the ball, he just never did anything useful with it. P.S. The fact that a lot of people don't rate Guly doesn't make them haters. It's a valid enough opinion and if a large number of people share that opinion there may well be something in it. I thought Darren Powell was sh*te. That doesn't make me a hater, Darren Powell was sh*te. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Better add a white player you think is sh!t lighthouse. Be quick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudders Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Guly's problem against Wigan was the same as Rodriguez in that he wasn't really suited to the role. To play out wide you really need some pace or skill to take on a man and get to the byline. He just doesn't have that. He is a neat passer, he knows how to finish and is fairly good in the air but he never once looked like stretching Wigan's defence. He was always cutting inside into a crowd on players. He was good enough at keeping the ball, he just never did anything useful with it. P.S. The fact that a lot of people don't rate Guly doesn't make them haters. It's a valid enough opinion and if a large number of people share that opinion there may well be something in it. I thought Darren Powell was sh*te. That doesn't make me a hater, Darren Powell was sh*te. But you are defending Guly because he's not being played in a role that suits him, yet having a go a Darren Powell when he was clearly also being played in a role that didn't suit him ie being a footballer! He could be a wizz at kerplunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
so22saint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Guly for me was having a great game right up to about the 50th minute when I turned to my wife and said "this is probably the best I've seen Guly play for ages, his touch is good, he's laid on good chances, he's really playing well". After that, Wigan scored and he was gash so it's my fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudders Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Guly for me was having a great game right up to about the 50th minute when I turned to my wife and said "this is probably the best I've seen Guly play for ages, his touch is good, he's laid on good chances, he's really playing well". After that, Wigan scored and he was gash so it's my fault Man up, it's your wifes fault, not yours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 Guly is a very averge player - so is SDR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellone Posted 27 August, 2012 Share Posted 27 August, 2012 So the crux of the matter is that Guly and Adam need to release the ball earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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