Ward Prowse / Rupert Lowe

[The9]

May as well remove "Ward-Prowse" from the thread title now.

 

Just saying.

[Crazy Diamond]

Utter, utter ******. If there is one thing you can fault Lowe for here is that it was in giving satchel face too much funds in the January window in trying to keep us up.So much so that we were in severe financial difficulty following relegation that Crouch had to go for a good price, leaving us with that measly £90k.

 

Just look at the players we brought in to avoid relegation. Quasie, Redknappm Barnard, Davenport and Camara costing £0.75M just for is short loan. Not to mention we still had offers on the table for Dawson and Reid at Forest up to the very end. Just go and compare that with the mighty tactician that was Bryan Robson and figure out how we got tucked up like a kipper?

 

Satchel face was ashamed to be at Saints and wish he never made the move from the first day. Spurred into the position by his lovers tiff with Mandaric, then shining like a beetroot with embarrassment when introduced to the press and a Saints scarf.

 

So you reckon Camara, Quashie, Bernard and Redknapp all cost us that dearly do you? The lot of them put together wouldn't even be half of what it cost Redknapp to get Adebayor in at Spurs. Let's not forget we got about £6 million for Beattie that same window. It's THAT kind of money that I'm talking about. We didn't give him anywhere near enough money to do the 'wonders' he talks about when looking back on his reigns at Portsmouth and Spurs. My point is that Redknapp is only good when he has good money to spend. This 'wheeler dealer' stuff is nonsense. How can signing Rafael van der Vaart for £8 million be 'wheeling and dealing'? The phrase implies he got him for a bag of f*cking chips!

 

As for Dawson and Reid, they were never interested in us. Ever.

 

Who did Redknapp buy when we were in the Championship? My memory of it isn't entirely clear, but I seem to remember players like Fuller, Hajto and Powell. We spent MEGA BUCKS on them didn't we? Yeah. Sure we did.

 

Excuse me if you think it's ******** but I can accuse you of the exact same.

[The9]

he conveniently forgets this and the fact his magnificent "financial prudence" failed to balance the books and he had not been vigilant enough to prevent Barclays putting us into admin. with a relatively small debt, at a time AFTER the 10 point deduction cut off.

 

Of course, Lowe blamed Barclays as people of his ilk do.

 

Thinking you've conveniently forgotten the Wilde/Crouch spend and bust that actually dropped us in the financial mire after we went down. Lowe's entire m.o. on relegation was cost reduction (once Woodward had gone anyway) - 15 players out at Xmas, then when returning, picking the kids, closing the corners and cutting overheads to try and reduce the debt.

 

It was the splurge and the contracts from the Derby Play-Off defeat season that pushed us over the edge.

 

Still, we needed the catharsis and the fresh start, it's old news now - the crucial point in the Academy Legacy debate is still the one about Souness' role, and no-one seems to want to discuss that ?

[Wopper]

Only a loon would hire a rugby coach.

[Crazy Diamond]

 

It was the splurge and the contracts from the Derby Play-Off defeat season that pushed us over the edge.

 

Are you sure it wasn't Redknapp spending all that money on Bernard, Camara, Redknapp and Quashie in January 2005?

[dinger]

So you reckon Camara, Quashie, Bernard and Redknapp all cost us that dearly do you? The lot of them put together wouldn't even be half of what it cost Redknapp to get Adebayor in at Spurs. Let's not forget we got about £6 million for Beattie that same window. It's THAT kind of money that I'm talking about. We didn't give him anywhere near enough money to do the 'wonders' he talks about when looking back on his reigns at Portsmouth and Spurs. My point is that Redknapp is only good when he has good money to spend. This 'wheeler dealer' stuff is nonsense. How can signing Rafael van der Vaart for £8 million be 'wheeling and dealing'? The phrase implies he got him for a bag of f*cking chips!

 

As for Dawson and Reid, they were never interested in us. Ever.

 

Who did Redknapp buy when we were in the Championship? My memory of it isn't entirely clear, but I seem to remember players like Fuller, Hajto and Powell. We spent MEGA BUCKS on them didn't we? Yeah. Sure we did.

 

Excuse me if you think it's ******** but I can accuse you of the exact same.

 

Surely the conclusion to draw then is that we/he had money available (viz. the bids for players) but it was never spent.

[Crazy Diamond]

Surely the conclusion to draw then is that we/he had money available (viz. the bids for players) but it was never spent.

 

You could also draw that conclusion I suppose, but I think the main point that Redknapp is only successful when he spends large amounts of money still stands. You need only look at how Portsmouth got promoted.

[Lord Duckhunter]

****ing hell, how many years will it be before we're rid of Lowe once and for all. Until we move grounds, play players that weren't born until 2009, people will still bang on about his vision.

 

Personally, players like Steve Williams, Nick Holmes, Steve Moran, Mark Wright (who we devoloped from Oxford res) Danny and Rod were a class above anything Lowe's years produced, apart from Bale. I think anyone who thinks Walcott is better than Danny Wallace in his prime, is off his rocker. And the fact is that the players mentioned may have moved on in the end, but they gave more to the club than the likes of AOC, Walcott, Bale and Jones ever have. Apart from Adam, Lowes youth system was a feeder system for other clubs, not ours. Obviously, the game has changed and we weren't in the top flight, but all Lowe's vision was turning us into was a slightly bigger Crewe Alexandra.

 

Nigel showed a lot of balls by throwing the youngster in against City, when he had other options. It was like a throwback to the Lawrie/CN days. Days that were Pre Lowe.............

[Legod Third Coming]

Partly that and partly the fact that Cortese's vision is funded by the Liebherr's equity, Lowe had share-holders to answer to - who knows how each one would work out if they were in the other's shoes.

 

True. True. But I think Lowe looked first at maximising revenue without realising that if you invested in the football side first, then the remainder would follow. So he would rather spend on a radio station to grow supporter base than recognise that if you put money on the pitch the radio station and supporters would come to you...

[LostBoys]

Just to cheer everyone up - at least me - he may have chiselled his way into SFC with a two up two down nursing home business called a PLC in a scam that was barely legal and needed to be LSE cleared - he may have bought shares with his own real money I cannot recall but just remember how much he finally received for those shares - £0. Tee hee oh drat I forgot he drew a fat salary and dividends for his incompetence - oh well you cannot win them all. I just wish we had photographic evidence of a SFC fan pouring beer over him in a London restaurant. Ok Lowe rant over for another year

[cellone]

Some of the most obnoxious posting on this site for ages. This thread is written like a jeremy vine call in.

[Legod Third Coming]

Some of the most obnoxious posting on this site for ages. This thread is written like a jeremy vine call in.

 

I have given up Radio Two. It's become the Daily Mail on air.

[mynameisthehulk]

Hmm, the issue for me is that we became a PLC in the first place by means of the reverse take over, that's when they all lined their pockets, although administration might have made all that worthless in the end. Did we HAVE to become a listed company? I know there were reasons for it but I don't recall if it was a necessity? Certainly their were ways to go about this which were more beneficial for the club and less beneficial for Lowe/Askham et al. That said, he did have some part in the building of St. Marys and the Academy and therefore deserves a minor amount of credit I suppose although it doesn't counteract all the other ****.

[Frank's cousin]

We are all human, we all make mistakes - but is the historic bitternesss and vitriol really necessary over what was football club chairman? Loss of perspective, often fuelled by ignorance and speculation seems disproportionate to me. I will accept all the issues and mistakes made, but not the accustations of 'criminality' - even the stuff about greed is somewhat misplaced - lowe could have gotten a far better return on the shares he owned sticking it in something safer than a football club - jeez he''s not the first to get anamoured by football, the glamour, the passion etc - How many of us here had we won the 150mil euro millions and bought the club would find it fricken difficult not to make snap decisons when the results go badly - or want more involvement in transfer decisions? and Judging by the posting history of those often most vitriolic, I suspect the mistakes you would have made would be potentially alot worse.

 

Its no easy business and as with all things sport, even the best intentions and on paper decsions have a habit of disintigrating into chaos. Lowe did Good, Lowe did bad end of really - its past, but we can learn form it - if nothing else that its an impossible task trying to keep 30000+ fans happy all of the time

[LostBoys]

Some of the most obnoxious posting on this site for ages. This thread is written like a jeremy vine call in.

 

chill out winston - anyone would think you wanted him back. the only lesson I learned from Rupes was that arrogance and stupidity is a dangerous combination in any position of authority

[LostBoys]

We are all human, we all make mistakes - but is the historic bitternesss and vitriol really necessary over what was football club chairman? Loss of perspective, often fuelled by ignorance and speculation seems disproportionate to me. I will accept all the issues and mistakes made, but not the accustations of 'criminality' - even the stuff about greed is somewhat misplaced - lowe could have gotten a far better return on the shares he owned sticking it in something safer than a football club - jeez he''s not the first to get anamoured by football, the glamour, the passion etc - How many of us here had we won the 150mil euro millions and bought the club would find it fricken difficult not to make snap decisons when the results go badly - or want more involvement in transfer decisions? and Judging by the posting history of those often most vitriolic, I suspect the mistakes you would have made would be potentially alot worse.

 

 

Its no easy business and as with all things sport, even the best intentions and on paper decsions have a habit of disintigrating into chaos. Lowe did Good, Lowe did bad end of really - its past, but we can learn form it - if nothing else that its an impossible task trying to keep 30000+ fans happy all of the time

 

came with nothing - paid nothing for the shares - left with nothing - apart from the salary and dividends - he did not put his money anywhere

[The9]

Are you sure it wasn't Redknapp spending all that money on Bernard, Camara, Redknapp and Quashie in January 2005?

 

I am very sure. None of them were still there by then so it's not like we were stuck with their contracts...

[JackFrost]

Didn't Lowe also hire people to post 'Rupert is great' propaganda on here?

 

+

 

He hired a PR firm and they all made the mistake of posting from a traceable subnet and were outed. There have also quite a few pro-Crouch PR plants on here and Wilde even posted on here himself at one stage.

 

Lowe did a good job up until when he lost the plot around Strachan's departure. He did a good job of running the club on a shoestring but ultimately let himself down with stupid decisions at crucial times and failing to endear himself to the fans.

 

Michael "we got our club back" Wilde was no better and it was when Lowe, Crouch and Wilde were squabbling in the boardroom that I knew the club wasn't going anywhere until all 3 were out of the club and a white knight arrived.

[Frank's cousin]

came with nothing - paid nothing for the shares - left with nothing - apart from the salary and dividends - he did not put his money anywhere

 

A little disengenous considering he owned shares already in secure retirement that were then converted to SLH shares - in addition Secure Retirment had around 3mil I believe in cash which was brought into the club - see this is the sort of total ****** misinformation atht some spout and it persists in urban myth reguretated whenever anyone merely points out a positive amongst the mistakes - See thats the difference betwen the so called Lowe luvvies and the Lowe haters - the Luvvies have never denied that Lowe made big mistakes, especially aroudn footballing decisions - yet the haters simply put their heads in the sand whenever anything positive is mentioned and try and deny or spread falsehoods...

[Ewell]

May as well remove "Ward-Prowse" from the thread title now.

 

Just saying.

 

How has this thread turned into discussing the merits of Lowe when we should be discussing our new bright young star?

 

JWP is going to be some player. I don't think I have ever seen a 17 year old who is so composed on the ball and always seems to have time and space. If he adds goals to his game then he is a young Paul Scholes that can tackle in the making!

[cellone]

How has this thread turned into discussing the merits of Lowe when we should be discussing our new bright young star?

 

JWP is going to be some player. I don't think I have ever seen a 17 year old who is so composed on the ball and always seems to have time and space. If he adds goals to his game then he is a young Paul Scholes that can tackle in the making!

 

It's good to be in a position to hold on to a talent like him.

[St Chalet]

Only a loon would hire a rugby coach.

 

Our rowers, cyclists, boxers and athletes seemed to do ok.

[The Kraken]

Our rowers, cyclists, boxers and athletes seemed to do ok.

He coached them directly did he?

 

trying to equate his current role with the role he had at Saints is tenuous at best.

[Legod Third Coming]

Our rowers, cyclists, boxers and athletes seemed to do ok.

 

Rowers, sailers and cyclists all performed exceptionally - as they have done since LONG before SCW was involved.

Athletes MISSED their medal target as did the Swimmers.

It's impossible to say what SCW did without asking the sports themselves but I don't think many of them credit him with doing anything from what I've read...

[aintforever]

Lowe obviously did some good in getting the Stadium built and though we have always brought through good players he has to take credit for the academy.

 

However he was unsuitable as a football chairman. You cannot argue with the fact that he took over an established Premier League club and left us in administration on -10 in the 3rd tier. Some of his decisions were crazy.

 

Hiring Steve Wigley as manager of a mid-table Prem club is probably still the most bonkers managerial decision made by anyone at the highest level ever.

 

The Woodward/Clifford farce was without doubt completely barking mad - suicidal experimentation when we had just two seasons of parachutes to try and get back up.

 

Then there was the Dutch disaster. Anyone who knows anything about football knew from day 1 what would happen there.

[Legod Third Coming]

Lowe obviously did some good in getting the Stadium built and though we have always brought through good players he has to take credit for the academy.

 

However he was unsuitable as a football chairman. You cannot argue with the fact that he took over an established Premier League club and left us in administration on -10 in the 3rd tier. Some of his decisions were crazy.

 

Hiring Steve Wigley as manager of a mid-table Prem club is probably still the most bonkers managerial decision made by anyone at the highest level ever.

 

The Woodward/Clifford farce was without doubt completely barking mad, Suicidal experimentation when we had just two seasons of parachutes to try and get back up.

 

Then there was the Dutch disaster. Anyone who knows anything about football knew from day 1 what would happen there.

 

Good summary without any argument.

[Frank's cousin]

Biting... Good summary and agree with most but....

 

Lowe obviously did some good in getting the Stadium built and though we have always brought through good players he has to take credit for the academy.

 

However he was unsuitable as a football chairman. You cannot argue with the fact that he took over an established Premier League club and left us in administration on -10 in the 3rd tier. Some of his decisions were crazy. Aye but dont underestimate the impact of Wilde and Crouch, Tango man that sanctioned the 7mil spend in that and when he came back the writing was on the wall - depsite best efforts in playing kids and cutting loses, reducing overdraft etc...

 

Hiring Steve Wigley as manager of a mid-table Prem club is probably still the most bonkers managerial decision made by anyone at the highest level ever. True - but can understand desire to promote form within/loyalty/opportunity thing etc - also cheap

 

The Woodward/Clifford farce was without doubt completely barking mad - suicidal experimentation when we had just two seasons of parachutes to try and get back up. Timing was all wrong as was mistake in clearly defining roles - idea/concept of taking Woodward in some capacity etc not necessarily bad, but very poor;y eecuted at a time when we needed stabilty and focus

 

Then there was the Dutch disaster. Anyone who knows anything about football knew from day 1 what would happen there. To be fair this was again a cheap option at a time when cheap was needed and the rational wa sthat if we wre forced to play kids due to financial constraints, why not use coaches who came from that background - problem was we should have found GOOD ones - also think they were not bad coaches - we palyed some nice stuff with thsoe kids, but they did not have the nous for a CCC relegation fight

[The Kraken]

Frank, you say you're no Lowe apologist but you don't half let yourself down in that post. No problem in appreciating the good that Lowe did but you go way, way further than that and pretty much try to justify everything he did, especially his most fatal errors.

 

Steve Wigley was a complete f*cking disaster from start to finish. He wasn't even announced to the fans, it took him leaking it to the Echo for fans to realise he was actually in charge. Given that Lowe could have learnt the lessons from the Stuart Gray abomination and the Paul Sturrock debacle, Wigley's appointment was nothing short of an absolute joke. And a complete indictment on the idiocy of Lowe on his latter managerial appointments.

 

Woodward and Clifford was an expense we couldn't afford (£1M wages for SCW while we spent £90K on one player), and in a situation with Jim Smith and Harry Redknapp which was never, ever, ever going to work. "Promoting" him to working with the reserve team was complete lunacy.

 

And there is simply no explanation possible for the dutch duo disaster. None. I will not hear a single word as to how that made sense, none at all. Cutting costs is fine, doing it with a Dutch League 9 manager and his arrogant buddy is just stupid, it was then and it is now.

[um pahars]

What complete and utter bollux.

 

We were a plc so if you want to see where the money "PROBABLY" ended up then all you need to do is to look at the published accounts. You will quickly find that sqaure root of f'k all went to shareholders. As one myself I certainly never received a penny....

 

I love it when people talk complete ********.

 

Quite simply you obviously never had any shares if you reckon you never received a penny as SFC PLCs dividend yield over the Years was very generous indeed.

 

And back to solely Lowe and the Academy.... I think it would be fair to say that Lowe invested time and money in to the Academy and saw it as a benefit for the first team and also as a benefit to the bottom line. Whether he got the balance right is up to others to decide, but I also think his, and others, claims to be the inspiration for inventing this idea is stretching it somewhat given ours and others history and record in the past.

[Frank's cousin]

Frank, you say you're no Lowe apologist but you don't half let yourself down in that post. No problem in appreciating the good that Lowe did but you go way, way further than that and pretty much try to justify everything he did, especially his most fatal errors.

 

Steve Wigley was a complete f*cking disaster from start to finish. He wasn't even announced to the fans, it took him leaking it to the Echo for fans to realise he was actually in charge. Given that Lowe could have learnt the lessons from the Stuart Gray abomination and the Paul Sturrock debacle, Wigley's appointment was nothing short of an absolute joke. And a complete indictment on the idiocy of Lowe on his latter managerial appointments.

 

Woodward and Clifford was an expense we couldn't afford (£1M wages for SCW while we spent £90K on one player), and in a situation with Jim Smith and Harry Redknapp which was never, ever, ever going to work. "Promoting" him to working with the reserve team was complete lunacy.

 

And there is simply no explanation possible for the dutch duo disaster. None. I will not hear a single word as to how that made sense, none at all. Cutting costs is fine, doing it with a Dutch League 9 manager and his arrogant buddy is just stupid, it was then and it is now.

 

good one Kracken - seriously not being funny but it made me chuckle - maybe it did not come across as intended, but I guess I like to look at whether there was rational in the initial decison, even if the execution was flawed or the outcome was a diaster - thats all - Sand by the Crouch Wilde Tango man comment, wiggley...well as I said concept oif internal promotion etc is a good one IF you have a suitable candidate - wigley obviously not a suitable candidate..

 

Woodward - indeed an expensive error, but still think under teh right circumstances someone like him could add something = right circumstances probably when you have a biliionnaire owner wont mis a ,mill and manager happy to have a more continental approach with General sporting manager in place and not directly involved with coaching

 

Dutch boys? Come on - we did play some nice stuff whilst getting beat

[CB Fry]

Frank, you say you're no Lowe apologist but you don't half let yourself down in that post. No problem in appreciating the good that Lowe did but you go way, way further than that and pretty much try to justify everything he did, especially his most fatal errors.

 

Steve Wigley was a complete f*cking disaster from start to finish. He wasn't even announced to the fans, it took him leaking it to the Echo for fans to realise he was actually in charge. Given that Lowe could have learnt the lessons from the Stuart Gray abomination and the Paul Sturrock debacle, Wigley's appointment was nothing short of an absolute joke. And a complete indictment on the idiocy of Lowe on his latter managerial appointments.

 

Woodward and Clifford was an expense we couldn't afford (£1M wages for SCW while we spent £90K on one player), and in a situation with Jim Smith and Harry Redknapp which was never, ever, ever going to work. "Promoting" him to working with the reserve team was complete lunacy.

 

And there is simply no explanation possible for the dutch duo disaster. None. I will not hear a single word as to how that made sense, none at all. Cutting costs is fine, doing it with a Dutch League 9 manager and his arrogant buddy is just stupid, it was then and it is now.

 

 

 

I'm as far from a Lowe hater as you can get, but this. A million times this. Pretty every single thing he did from the day he sacked Luggy was a monumental fu ck up and beyond any mitigation.

 

And he even had the chance to put it right by keeping Pearson on and blew it.

 

Doesn't mean that lots of the things he did do - academy, stadium, appointing some good managers, prudence, some great players and, ohhh, catering to die for - don't deserve recognition. He did lots of good.

 

Cortese has always been Lowe with cash and I think will follow a similar career trajectory with Saints but that's another story.

[Dazza82]

He used to be a skate but he is alright now!!!

 

[Frank's cousin]

I love it when people talk complete ********.

 

Quite simply you obviously never had any shares if you reckon you never received a penny as SFC PLCs dividend yield over the was very generous indeed.

 

And back to solely Lowe and the Academy.... I think it would be fair to say that Lowe invested time and money in to the Academy and saw it as a benefit for the first team and also as a benefit to the bottom line. Whether he got the balance right is up to others to decide, but I also think his, and others, claims to be the inspiration for inventing this idea is stretching it somewhat given ours and others history and record in the past.

 

All tru, biut not sure others are claiming he invented it - main plus point was the level of investmnet in the academy he was prepared to pump in relative to out revenue - lets also be honest in that once set up ith a decent accommodation place etc, parents felt good about their kids coming here rather than heading for teh big smoke and alll that entails - so we had that advantage - would be interested to know if it wa strue we looked for intelligent kids who we could teach, rather than just 'footballers' - would kind of make sense in that most of the kids have been level headed and relatively bright

[aintforever]

Biting... Good summary and agree with most but....

 

Agree about the Wilde/Crouch disaster sowing the seeds of administration but Lowe failed spectacularly trying to salvage the situation. The banks only called in the overdraft when it was clear we were nosediving into League 1.

 

There is no excuse for the Wigley or Woodward episodes though.

[Frank's cousin]

Agree about the Wilde/Crouch disaster sowing the seeds of administration but Lowe failed spectacularly trying to salvage the situation. The banks only called in the overdraft when it was clear we were nosediving into League 1.

 

There is no excuse for the Wigley or Woodward episodes though.

 

Indeed truely bizarre and bonkers - but where some believe it was some sort of deliberate attempt to feck us over, I kinda look back at that now from teh comfort of NIge and NC and have to laught at those episodes

[The Kraken]

All tru' date=' biut not sure others are claiming he invented it - main plus point was the level of investmnet in the academy he was prepared to pump in relative to out revenue - lets also be honest in that once set up ith a decent accommodation place etc, parents felt good about their kids coming here rather than heading for teh big smoke and alll that entails - so we had that advantage - would be interested to know if it wa strue we looked for intelligent kids who we could teach, rather than just 'footballers' - would kind of make sense in that most of the kids have been level headed and relatively bright[/quote']

Frank, you're still making excuses or making things up. My cousin was on Saints books up to the age of 18 (in and around the same age range of MLT, Shearer, Franny, Mark Blake et al) so I have a fairly good idea of what I'm talking about. And the Saints youth setup back then was brilliant. Loads of families (including my cousin's parents (obviously my aunt and uncle) and many other local families) would open their homes to various Saints trialists and youngsters who were looking to make it; and they'd do this year upon year. I met a few lads who went through the Saints youth setup, staying down here from afar (one lad called Chrissy from Newcastle, showing that Shearer was by far a random isolation) and our youth system and setup back in the 80s and 90s was considered well ahead of its time.

 

Rupert Lowe took that on, and progressed it, no doubt. He improved it, of course he did. but he didn't revolutionise it. Saints have been blessed to have had a fantastic youth system for a long number of years, and its a disservice to overtly credit that to one man IMO.

[Frank's cousin]

Frank, you're still making excuses or making things up. My cousin was on Saints books up to the age of 18 (in and around the same age range of MLT, Shearer, Franny, Mark Blake et al) so I have a fairly good idea of what I'm talking about. And the Saints youth setup back then was brilliant. Loads of families (including my cousin's parents (obviously my aunt and uncle) and many other local families) would open their homes to various Saints trialists and youngsters who were looking to make it; and they'd do this year upon year. I met a few lads who went through the Saints youth setup, staying down here from afar (one lad called Chrissy from Newcastle, showing that Shearer was by far a random isolation) and our youth system and setup back in the 80s and 90s was considered well ahead of its time.

 

Rupert Lowe took that on, and progressed it, no doubt. He improved it, of course he did. but he didn't revolutionise it. Saints have been blessed to have had a fantastic youth system for a long number of years, and its a disservice to overtly credit that to one man IMO.

 

NOw I am confused - not sure where I said anything that needed that response - certianly did not make things up - during Lowes time, we spent more on the academy relative to revenue than most other clubs in the prem - nowt to do with whether we were as good or better historically, but talking about those years. second the rest is a) acknowledging that our location gives us an advantage - we had an environment that was not London etc - which was obviousl NOT down to Lowe, and secondly asking UP a question as to whetehr there was any truth in Lowe's statement in that articl about looking for intelligent kids with physique etc rather than just good footballers?

 

so sorry not sure why you are questioning my post?

[Turkish]

I work with a bloke now who was on Saints books in the early to mid nineties. He was hot property at the time he tells me and turned down Man U and Spurs due to Saints reputation and him living near Bracknell. He told me plenty of stories about Merrington, The players and just how well respected Saints youth team set up was back then. At the time he was there we had a lot of Scottish players Apparantly. Says the banter was excellent and would have boarded on bullying these days. Magilton was the worst for it. Ironically Souness released him towards the end of his tenure which was Lowes first season in charge IIRC and he went to Fulham and ended up playing for the likes of Aldershot and AFC Wimbledon. As has been said yes Lowe made changes but it was also very good and well respected long before he arrived.

[The Kraken]

NOw I am confused - not sure where I said anything that needed that response - certianly did not make things up - during Lowes time, we spent more on the academy relative to revenue than most other clubs in the prem - nowt to do with whether we were as good or better historically, but talking about those years. second the rest is a) acknowledging that our location gives us an advantage - we had an environment that was not London etc - which was obviousl NOT down to Lowe, and secondly asking UP a question as to whetehr there was any truth in Lowe's statement in that articl about looking for intelligent kids with physique etc rather than just good footballers?

 

so sorry not sure why you are questioning my post?

 

Mostly where you said:

 

"lets also be honest in that once set up ith a decent accommodation place etc, parents felt good about their kids coming here rather than heading for teh big smoke and alll that entail"s

 

You clearly said that as if it weren't there already. The housing support, school support and general support network was always there. We had enough to fight "the big smoke" already as we do now, albeit in a different way and relative to current day academies.

[Frank's cousin]

Mostly where you said:

 

"lets also be honest in that once set up ith a decent accommodation place etc, parents felt good about their kids coming here rather than heading for teh big smoke and alll that entail"s

 

You clearly said that as if it weren't there already. The housing support, school support and general support network was always there. We had enough to fight "the big smoke" already as we do now, albeit in a different way and relative to current day academies.

 

Sorry Kracken you need to read that again - to me its pretty clear - the statement is true and was pointing to the fact that we had a NATURAL advantage already, nowt to do with Lowe in attracting kids to the youth set up... so dont get your point on this - I was deliberately pointing out something that Lowe had no invoilvement in... obviously you have misinterpreted this.

 

I go back to what I said before the key impact lowe had was not ignoring it when many other clubs in the prem did (simply doing the minimum to satisfy prem rules) - as it was seen as a luxury - why many of our own fans were having a go at him for not spending that money on the first team... which says a lot.

[The Kraken]

Sorry Kracken you need to read that again - to me its pretty clear - the statement is true and was pointing to the fact that we had a NATURAL advantage already, nowt to do with Lowe in attracting kids to the youth set up... so dont get your point on this - I was deliberately pointing out something that Lowe had no invoilvement in... obviously you have misinterpreted this.

 

I go back to what I said before the key impact lowe had was not ignoring it when many other clubs in the prem did (simply doing the minimum to satisfy prem rules) - as it was seen as a luxury - why many of our own fans were having a go at him for not spending that money on the first team... which says a lot.

 

I'm definitely missing it Frank. I know for a fact that we recruited Shearer by having a better scouting network than most at the time. Which obviously didn't come for free. We always put massive stock in our youth system, by attracting players from all over the country. We always had a big expense on the development of youth; always. It wasn't new. that's my point. if I've missed your point (again) then I apologise.

[Frank's cousin]

I'm definitely missing it Frank. I know for a fact that we recruited Shearer by having a better scouting network than most at the time. Which obviously didn't come for free. We always put massive stock in our youth system, by attracting players from all over the country. We always had a big expense on the development of youth; always. It wasn't new. that's my point. if I've missed your point (again) then I apologise.

 

Ar I see what you mean now - sorry, but I was not suggesting a) we dod not have a decent system befor, or that b) only under lowe did we get one - my point was that underLowe it would have been easy to do what many other clubs were doing at the time - which was discover it was easier to y cheap foreign imports than develop your own - so investment in youth slumped - we kept it going and invested more relative to revenue and that paid dividends (literally ) - and he did this despite the call from any fans that it was a waste on money and better invested in the first team etc.

 

 

The other point was more illustrative of the fact we do have a na advantge historicall and now in taht parents are ofetn more comfortable sending their kids to a place like Southampton than the big smoke and we have in the past and today made good use of this - Category one status should help some more as we end up with the Walcotts at 8 or 9 etc

[The Kraken]

Ar I see what you mean now - sorry, but I was not suggesting a) we dod not have a decent system befor, or that b) only under lowe did we get one - my point was that underLowe it would have been easy to do what many other clubs were doing at the time - which was discover it was easier to y cheap foreign imports than develop your own - so investment in youth slumped - we kept it going and invested more relative to revenue and that paid dividends (literally ) - and he did this despite the call from any fans that it was a waste on money and better invested in the first team etc.

 

 

The other point was more illustrative of the fact we do have a na advantge historicall and now in taht parents are ofetn more comfortable sending their kids to a place like Southampton than the big smoke and we have in the past and today made good use of this - Category one status should help some more as we end up with the Walcotts at 8 or 9 etc

 

Ah, OK. I think RL did a very good think in reinstating and developing the youth setup in the new format of "the academy". Premier League rules dictated it to an extent, but he definitely deserves credit one way or the other for overseeing it.

 

I reinforce te point of your last paragraph. Simply because, before the academy setup I know what a brilliant setup we already had. What a great scouting network there was. What a solid home setup there was here for young kids to come down to. I think our record in the original locations of players that came to us are testament to that. More than anything the ones that didn't make it but were encouraged here in the first place from many miles from their home. Cat 1 and all that is a nice title, and our facilities now are ages away from the old ones, but its nice to know that our foundations of youth development come from many years of success prior to the cash rich Premier League.

[um pahars]

Ar I see what you mean now - sorry' date=' but I was not suggesting a) we dod not have a decent system befor, or that b) only under lowe did we get one - my point was that underLowe it would have been easy to do what many other clubs were doing at the time [/quote']

 

But many other Clubs from Man Utd to West Ham also had a policy of developing youth. Even Clubs who spent big also augmented their teams with homegrown talent. Getting the right players and the right balance is always the difficult bit.

 

The claim that only we were doing it (or that Lowe started it) is as laughable as our state of the art Training Complex at Staplewood (really a dome that others had and not a patch on what the top clubs had, hence the massive redevelopment now being undertaken).

[St Chalet]

He coached them directly did he?

 

trying to equate his current role with the role he had at Saints is tenuous at best.

 

Really? My understanding was that he managed the coaching staff, didn't coach football himself. Woodwards crime was that he didn't do our job full-time, not that he couldn't have had an influence. Ask yourself honestly, who would you trust with your sports science dept - Sir Clive or Arry?

 

Interesting to see that Ernie Els has been using the eye coach that Woodward recommended.

[The Kraken]

Really? My understanding was that he managed the coaching staff, didn't coach football himself. Woodwards crime was that he didn't do our job full-time, not that he couldn't have had an influence. Ask yourself honestly, who would you trust with your sports science dept - Sir Clive or Arry?

 

Interesting to see that Ernie Els has been using the eye coach that Woodward recommended.

Your understanding is wrong. Read some of the actual quotes on his own role and you might understand it better.

"Woodward's role will see him initially involved in three areas, the medical aspect, team support and structure, and individual coaching with the club's academy players." BBC

Sir Clive Woodward will be given his first hands-on experience in football when Southampton reserves take on West Ham tonight - but only as an assistant to reserve-team boss Stewart Henderson. He [Henderson] will pick the team and run the reserves but Clive Woodward and Simon Clifford will also be involved over the next few weeks." Daily Mail.

 

I can't be bothered to find any more, that's the first two I came across. SCW and Clifford were primed to take over the reserve team and then the ulitmate goal of the first team. I'm surprised you've forgotten that, to be honest.

[John Boy Saint]

Forgive my ignorance: In a few posts above Leon Crouch gets a kicking for being involved in the Lowe Wilde triangle. If I remember correctly he was the deciding factor with his shares to tip the balance of power in Wilde's favour, then after time realised in error that he had backed a bit of a Mickey Mouse Circus and a Mad Hatters Tea Party in the boardroom.

But when we were hurtling towards the abyss (yes he was involved in the demise) and Pinnicle were dicking about he put his hand in his own pocket to keep folks in their jobs at SMS, which was far more than anyone else involved appeared to have done.

I stand to be corrected (Sans abuse would be nice).

 

In the grand scheme of things when the wheels were coming of its amazing that whatever of value there was in the Academy and training set up was not disposed of to keep heads above water, it's something our friends down the M27 had been without for years and they were looking pretty comfy in the Prem.

[um pahars]

Really? My understanding was that he managed the coaching staff, didn't coach football himself. Woodwards crime was that he didn't do our job full-time, not that he couldn't have had an influence. Ask yourself honestly, who would you trust with your sports science dept - Sir Clive or Arry?

 

Interesting to see that Ernie Els has been using the eye coach that Woodward recommended.

 

But SCW ended up as our Director of Football!!! a long way from just being in charge of Sports Science (and as came out in the wash later, the plan was for him to become Manager).

 

Had he just been in charge of Sports Science or Sports Performance, and had the existing management team accepted it, and had it been a priority, and had he not bought Clifford in, and had it not been a massive distraction, and had it not cost us money that probably should have been spent securing "repromotion" [sic], then it might have worked.

[Hockey_saint]

You all appear to be forgettting what made the Wigley situation so bad was that he already made that mistake before with Stuart Gray.

[SaintRobbie]

Oh please. Lowe and the Daily Mail have had a love in for years.

 

Lowe was a total disaster. Fact.

 

Any chairman would have invested in the Youth set up at that time given the same decision to make, because it was cheap and the framework was in place with good coaches already at the club. At best you can say Lowe didnt screw this one up as it was such an easy call to make in the first place!