sotonjoe Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Just seen this post on Daily Echo website.. I know this will be unpopular but I am out clean out of patience with Cortese.His overall record over transfers at Saints looks a joke. He has screwed up one deal in Switzerland last year, and has followed that up by making a mess of the Buttner deal and to make matters worse the player is now joining Man U.The Davis deal also nearly did not happen as Cortese had not done his home work re the Rangers situation.He has now made the mother and father of a shambles of the Ramirez transfer which is all but lost because the player was misled into believing the clubs had agreed a fee. If I were the Liebherrs I''d be worrying about my investment as clearly Saints need to spend money in key areas if they are to stay up this season. And by money I dont mean a net 3M which in Premiership terms is laughable bearing in mind the club will receive fifty million just for going up to the Premiership. Too many fans that write here are complacent and have a blind faith in Cortese purely because of his connection with Liebherr.It is however doubtful that had Liebherr stayed alive that we would have seen such inertia from the Saints management. Would it be too much to ask for more transparency in their dealings as currently it looks as if the club is disinterested in public relations even though they must be aware of fans concerns. Why put the achievement of the last two years at risk?? sheer stupidity in my view and short sighted in the extreme. Apologies to the in NC and NA we trust brigade we will have to agree to disagree. This person (called montecristosaint) seems to put an interesting angle on some saints incidents. Is this because he knows something / has heard something or is he just a presumptuous fruit loop a la Alpine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Could just be a warped interpretation of a few of our transfer dealings. The Ammer Jamal deal, Buttner transfer both fell through but the Ramirez one is still pushing on, just it's a complex. Seems he's fretting over things that could have happened, yet didn't. C'est la vie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Red Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 More transparency on transfers would f*ck even more of them up Need to keep quiet until they're done This guy certainly has an axe to grind and he's picked a weird day to do it after yesterdays display PS - There's no evidence of the Davis transfer ever being nearly messed up. Maybe a bit more patience would have made it cheaper is all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 20 August, 2012 Author Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Could just be a warped interpretation of a few of our transfer dealings. The Ammer Jamal deal, Buttner transfer both fell through but the Ramirez one is still pushing on, just it's a complex. Seems he's fretting over things that could have happened, yet didn't. A bit of a fretter then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 20 August, 2012 Author Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Incidentally, and seeing as the thread has been closed, I'm not sure why we lost interest in Buttner. I thought reports in the week suggested we were back in for him so to heart he's on the verge of signing for Utd is a bit of a disappointment. I can only guess Utd just got on with it whilst we had our backs turned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Plenty of deals fall through for certain reasons, this is common, I expect this fruit loop believes the TFW is just like FM, agree a fee and wages and deal done. Well, its not... Its far more complicated than that, which is possibly the main reason for lack of transparancy, something that most clubs actually try to carry out. Look at it another way, when AFC were openly tapping up Ox how did we feel ? And you wiukd rather Saints webt down that route ? Look at WHU, in for all and sundry, although in reality I struggle to believe they are actually trying to push anything through. Some people are deluded to how football works Im afraid. Maybe NC is a dufficult man, I have no doubt of that but 2 promotions in 2 years lead me to believe his rights outweigh his wrongs. I bet this guy thought Guly played badly Sunday too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Wouldn't take any notice of this. I would say our transfer dealings have been good since Cortese joined - of course some don't make it over the line but without good additions we wouldnt have got this far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronskisaint Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 C*nt of Monte Cristo? Easy to make up from the information out there and why the Echo? 'Transparency' can come once any transfer is done and dusted...the bloke's an Alp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 The Iphone is terrible for writing anything at all..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaMarlin Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 If nothing else, the Echo printing the views of a fruitloop/ITKer (which they are quite entitled to do) won't have done much for their prospects of getting their ban reversed. They might not be the Echo's views, but Cortese doesn't take kindly to the paper giving malcontents and nay-sayers a platform to air them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Cortese doesn't take kindly to the paper giving malcontents and nay-sayers a platform to air them. That's me ****ed then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Jazzbo Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 I thought Buttner's club made it clear that SFC weren't to blame for the deal falling through, and also that Rangers said that we had acted professionaly in respect of the Davis sitiuation. Or did I imagine all that. Finally it was Ramirez that came out and said what he said not Cortese. So I'm not sure what the issue is here. Unless its a disgruntled ex employee or agent. Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Sounds like a bit of a fruit loop personally. Someone who has been messed around and has an agenda me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Shango Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Not like we've struggled to sign plenty of great players over the past 3 years is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stattmeister Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Incidentally, and seeing as the thread has been closed, I'm not sure why we lost interest in Buttner. I thought reports in the week suggested we were back in for him so to heart he's on the verge of signing for Utd is a bit of a disappointment. I can only guess Utd just got on with it whilst we had our backs turned. I read this morning (maybe SSN?) that Buttner said Man U had made themselves known as interested a month ago http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11906/8005307/Buttner-closes-on-United-move He was all lined up to sign with us mid July (I was in t'Egypt and I think it was about July 11/12th?) the minute that happened, we were never in the race and I'm flipping certain if we had agreed to pay him more than Utd, he still wouldn't have joined us over them. Therefore no blame to be laid at our doors there IMO. Simon Peach also confirmed that prior to the weekend the deal was dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Kucho Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 The Buttner deal was all down to Buttner, his dad, agent and Vitesse making a mess of it. In a Dutch football magazine (VI) there is report about the whole saga and who did what. If I have the time I will ask a friend to help me translate it, makes a interesting read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 I am just interested what the 'axe' is that some still seem to have that needs so much grinding? Yes the ownership and management structure play their cards close to tehir chests which certainly can irritate when you have fans hungrey for information, but is sort of expected given its the swiss way of doing business and as we have seen, how MIS-information and speculation can feck up things - Personnnaly I would hope we ARE difficult to deal with in transfers - negotiation is all about BOTH parties comming to an acceptable agreement and sticking to what we believe a player is worth or having terms that we can live rather rather then bending over and taking a shafting... Also players in effect have the power - if they want to come they will, and agents/chairman haggle over fees .... Yes NC has perhaps not communicated the rational around certian decsions that impact directly on fans and some have been unpopular such the parking fees, ticket tax etc... but really come on I simply can not see any cumulative or single issues that would justify the agendas some still have against NC - no one of these agenda driven types ever details their REAL issue, but prefer to mask in negative gossip, innuendo and blatent bo llox. Seriously I would love to know why but they are all too wet to come out with it - be it their desire to run the club as some cooperative, fan on the board bo llox or some xenophobic shiedt - seriously cant think of anything else... not when we have had two promotions back to back, seen the improvements and aspirations.... ..even if there wa struth in NC having made errors in transfers - so fricken what? He is still learning to, and now back in the prem the pressure and spotlight is more intense - as pointe dout above, anyone who believes the transfer situation is easy has been playing too much FM - and is completely fricken clueless about teh reality of it all. What this arse hole seems to have forgotten is that you can dislike the decisions on the small things, and even dislike the man (based on a blinkered prejudice given that its pretty difficult to judge someone until you meet and get to know them), but have respect for what has been achieved. The club and NC will make mistakes - fact of fricken life, but you can bet they learn from it and wont let it stifle our aspiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 That's me ****ed then Nah... for all we know you are in league with the Italian Swiss devil himself and this platform is the the way out outing the miserable naysayers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Ahh, another Cortese thread :) I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that we as a club are incredibly difficult to deal with and Cortese in particular is a nighmare and that deals fall through, when we don't play ball or the goalposts move. Long may it continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 20 August, 2012 Author Share Posted 20 August, 2012 I read this morning (maybe SSN?) that Buttner said Man U had made themselves known as interested a month ago http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11906/8005307/Buttner-closes-on-United-move He was all lined up to sign with us mid July (I was in t'Egypt and I think it was about July 11/12th?) the minute that happened, we were never in the race and I'm flipping certain if we had agreed to pay him more than Utd, he still wouldn't have joined us over them. Therefore no blame to be laid at our doors there IMO. Simon Peach also confirmed that prior to the weekend the deal was dead. Could you explain this clearer as I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying Utd were on the scene before us anyway or that they came in after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 As for whether the op from the echo post is ITK Cortese has been given a place on the board of the parent company, which suggests the Liebherr's are very happy with Cortese. As for his transfer record being a joke - Woudl that be the transfer record that landed Jos, Rodriguez, Sharp etc and got top dollar for Chamberlain? Oh and It was 70 million for getting into the Prem, not the 50 million, which subsequently went up (To 80 something I think) when the new TV contracts were awarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 20 August, 2012 Author Share Posted 20 August, 2012 The Buttner deal was all down to Buttner, his dad, agent and Vitesse making a mess of it. In a Dutch football magazine (VI) there is report about the whole saga and who did what. If I have the time I will ask a friend to help me translate it, makes a interesting read. A translation of that article would be good. I for one am unsure why Buttner, his Dad, agent and Vitesse apparently made a mess out of our potential deal, but the Utd deal has apparently moved seamlessly within a few days. Perhaps all the parties are just much keener to get a deal done with Utd and the reported 5m euro fee is above our reported 4m euro fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 That's me ****ed then Given the god like status he's achieved on here, I'm quite surprised you haven't been invited to one of his dinner parties yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Given the god like status he's achieved on here, I'm quite surprised you haven't been invited to one of his dinner parties yet. Nah hes just a scrote - but hes our scrote. Seriously noone worships him, but cant help feel that in the grand scheme of things spome seem TOOO obsessed and place too much emphasis on parking and ticket 'tax' (commonly known throughout the adult world as booking fee) - as painful as it may be to part with the price of an additional pint - surely back to back promotions is a little bit more important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Doesn't seem to matter how much is delivered at Saints, how many times it's shown that we are on an impressive upward trajectory, how many times it turns out the team is being improved, how clear it is Adkins is happy with the situation, we've had so many years of paranoia that people are still too ready to believe every dodgy rumour they hear. i'm sure he's not perfect, I'm sure he's made mistakes, but have these people not noticed we dominated our division last year and that the signs so far are that we've got a competitive team in the PL again. Clearly we should all be running out of patience with Cortese. It's been miserable being a saints fan since he came along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 I think that person on the echo site posts here as fitzhugh fella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Monticristo hasn't got the balls to use his real name . I better the daily ****e jumped at the chance to post that crap . Monticristo is probably one of the so called trolls on here . There are a few anti nc trolls on here . Could well be a skate trying to wind us as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 He sounds like someone with an axe to grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 He sounds like someone with an axe to grind. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 I think that person on the echo site posts here as fitzhugh fella Nah, that post is way too naive re the spending and 'you get 50mil' (without acknowledging that as with most clubs most of this now dissappears on wages). FF is cleverer than that and despite having a strong opinion on he community elements of football clubs, has been quite supportive. He's always more reasonable and not affraid to put his name to a critique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manji Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 I think that person on the echo site posts here as fitzhugh fella That would explain a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Cortese (by all accounts) is a responsible business man determined to obtain the best possible value for money for his employers - the Liebherr family. Being careful with your own, and other peoples, money is a good thing of course, but you have to wonder whether losing out on players we clearly both want and need (such as Buttner) because we are not prepared to compromise on our principles is a tenable position given the constrains of the transfer window system. It stinks but to do business in this market it may be necessary some times to pay more than you think a player is really worth and pay off grasping agents (or a players father even) too in order to achieve the desired aim - a decent quality Premier League squad. Signing players is a complex business we mere fans probably underestimate the difficulties of, but it would appear we have missed more targets than we've hit this summer - and that should be a matter of concern for us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 (edited) some people seem to think that on /off transfers are purely a problem for Saints. Look at some of the deals that revolve around the " top six..." who think that the mere mention of their name is enough to have players flocking to their door in adoration. It is frustrating for us to seemingly wait for deal to happen, but there are many factors behind a transfer and they don't all involve money. The article's comment about "transparency " is a joke. SFC is a business, and must be run as one. The fact of the matter is no Managing Director / Chairman of a any respectable company is going to go public with details of his negotiations, personnel questions and costs before the ink is dry on the contract, and this is even more important in football where there are more clubs in the mix with funds to spend. I am sure that the original Buttner deal was a surprise to everyone, but I believe that Cortese is not about to let someone try to " move the goalposts " after the deal had been agreed. There must be good reasons why that deal didn't go through, but at the same time it may have alerted MU to the availability of the player. Some deals seem to have some unusual terms and conditions and they can make a deal happen by just throwing money at it. As for the Ramirez situation, my take on that after reading the dozens of threads posted everywhere is that it may not have been clear from the start that the player was only 70% owned by Bologna (a situation that is not permitted by FIFA (or is it UEFA ?...althouigh the original Tevez deal some years ago showed the flaws in that situation. Unlike many football chairman who do deals behind peoples back, with irresponsible and sometimes by illegal means, I believe Cortese knows the rules / laws and is scrupulous to follow them. I'll not condemn him for that, because without some measure of legality and honesty we'll all end up with the Italian football scenario of bribery and corruption... which I'm sure Cortese is well aware of. Edited 20 August, 2012 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 20 August, 2012 Share Posted 20 August, 2012 Cortese (by all accounts) is a responsible business man determined to obtain the best possible value for money for his employers - the Liebherr family. Being careful with your own, and other peoples, money is a good thing of course, but you have to wonder whether losing out on players we clearly both want and need (such as Buttner) because we are not prepared to compromise on our principles is a tenable position given the constrains of the transfer window system. It stinks but to do business in this market it may be necessary some times to pay more than you think a player is really worth and pay off grasping agents (or a players father even) too in order to achieve the desired aim - a decent quality Premier League squad. Signing players is a complex business we mere fans probably underestimate the difficulties of, but it would appear we have missed more targets than we've hit this summer - and that should be a matter of concern for us all. Fair points, but we have to acknolwedge that we are now going for a standard of player that have opportiunities are arguably bigger clubs - historically in teh prem we have only gone for Delaps and Telfers (in the modern era) and this has meant its been relatively easy Now we are in the 7-15mil bracket, these are GOOD players that more clubs are interested in and once we have had our interest plastered in teh media, usually by the players agent, it alerts others and we are suddenly in the pack being played - I dont think it will be to our disadvantage TBH, as we have indicated we are prepared to pay a reasonable fee and wage - so if anything, the agent/player ****ing around is a good thing as it will filter out those who are not really our type of signing - we want hungry ambitious pros who dont see us as merely a stepping stone but as an opportunity to be part of something - if they dont get that, do we want to compromise this and sign them anyway? We are alsways going to need a side that is GREATER than the sum of its parts and egos and mercenaries wont fit into that model - look at Rickie Lambert - hes to me is waht is so great about our squad - not his goals but his attitude it makes it so easy to support us right now - we are a decent side - as in decent blokes and I'm pretty glad we dont want to change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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