What's wrong with being a sub..?

[david in sweden]

of course there were reasons for NOT playing Steven Davis and Rickie Lambert (from the start) on Sunday.

 

Davis is probably not yet " Saints-fit "..and that will need to be " super-fit " after the frenetic pace of yesterdays game, but SDs contribution was enormous and unlike many subs. he didn't need 10 mins. to find out which way we were kicking ! What sort of displays can we expect when he becomes one of the first names on the team sheet?

 

Nigel Adkins admitted he knew that City's fast-moving game might take its toll on Rickie, especially in the second half...so he used him when later on when the City defenders were short of breath and Rickie was fresh, and it paid off wonderfully.

 

BUT somehow, there still seems to be a feeling amongst many fans that being on the bench from the start is somehow degrading, or relegates them to "second-class " players. I note that Alex Ferguson doesn't flinch from putting Wayne Rooney on the bench when he knows he can come on when he needs him. Meantime, he uses his new recruits blended with the established names...

 

It was a Prem. debut and baptism of fire all concerned, and very new names like; Clyne, Ward-Prowse...and Steven Davis showed they can handle the challenge, (better to find out now than later).

 

Adkins used his subs. as " impact players " very well last season... when 12 goals were scored by on coming subs. Not the team's second choice, but their second wind.

 

Too many times in the past, there have been players who were on the pitch for 90 minutes.. but who seem to be almost invisible, yesterday we saw that the real value of a player is the " impact " they can make on the game when they get involved, whether it's the first minute, or the last.

 

So let's not denegrate players (or the manager who chooses them) because they didn't start the game, but for the contribution they make when they become involved.

 

In future, I shall look past the chosen start 11 and ask myself ..who and when would those subs be likely to come on, and what impact might they make?.

[Bearsy]

I think it worked out perfect for Ricky. If he had any doubts bout himself stepping up as a Prem striker - which is possible cos he said the same thing bout the Championship - then 90 minutes toil as an unsupported lone front man might have knocked his confidence or whatever. As it turns out I bet he's flying!

[Patrick Bateman]

I think it worked out perfect for Ricky. If he had any doubts bout himself stepping up as a Prem striker - which is possible cos he said the same thing bout the Championship - then 90 minutes toil as an unsupported lone front man might have knocked his confidence or whatever. As it turns out I bet he's flying!

 

I would agree with that, had he started and struggled to score, it probably would have started to play on his mind a bit - but coming on, scoring so quickly and influencing the game as he did would have done his confidence wonders!

[The9]

Adkins played it perfectly. Rodriguez worked his nuts off defensively and then when he was spent and we needed a goal, bring on a fresh striker and put Guly where Rodriguez had been.

 

We all know Lambert can score when he's already in the box. What we can't expect him to do is be haring up and down the pitch and chasing everything for 90 minutes. That was obvious from when we broke 5 on 3 for Davis' goal and Lambert wasn't one of the 5. I was impressed with his ability to still win a couple of far post knockdowns in that kind of "Kompany" though.

[The Kraken]

Adkins played it perfectly. Rodriguez worked his nuts off defensively and then when he was spent and we needed a goal, bring on a fresh striker and put Guly where Rodriguez had been.

 

We all know Lambert can score when he's already in the box. What we can't expect him to do is be haring up and down the pitch and chasing everything for 90 minutes. That was obvious from when we broke 5 on 3 for Davis' goal and Lambert wasn't one of the 5. I was impressed with his ability to still win a couple of far post knockdowns in that kind of "Kompany" though.

Doubts have been expressed in some quarters that RL won't be able to dominate centre-backs in the PL as he has done in the lower leagues. Its something I very much disagree with; I think he'll be just as effective in the air. As you say he was up against one of the best defenders in the whole league yesterday and still came out on top in the aerial challenges. Also with the ball at his feet; too often Guly wasn't able to hold on to it with his back to goal. Rickie can do that, and also has the vision to bring in other players around him with his quick feet.

 

I'm hoping that yesterday is an exception rather than the norm. Rickie needs to be on the pitch for as long as possible. We were a much better side yesterday with him up front rather than on the bench.

[Stu Man Do]

As soon as Lambert came on yesterday it looked (IMO!!) that the whole team got a lift. We'd been pegged back for the previous 40 odd minutes before Lambert came on and from that point on we started to play some really good football. On the flip side of this I think you have to give credit to Adkins for making a big call and putting him on at a time he thought he would do the most damage and it oh so nearly worked!

[EastleighSoulBoy]

NA sees it as a squad game, they all have a part to play dependent on the way the game is going. There's nothing degrading about sitting on the bench, being ready to provide an impact.

 

Both changes and tactics were spot on in my humble opinion.

[Faz]

Yes, the team got a lift when Sir Ricky came on, but don't underestimate what NA did wiht the whole team. He got them pushed up and playing higher up the pitch too. This is a whole lot more complicated than us (former) park players would like to think it is.

[Ian the Red]

Totally agree Kraken! We were toothless up front until RL came on. Dont get me wrong, Guly did well, plenty of intelligent running but he's not Ricky. We had no one able to hold up play and let the others get forward in support. JRod, needs to find his feet so needs time, again he did well but on the left???

 

I think NA got it wrong with RL and hope he starts every game. He has impact from the start and clearly lifted his team mates as soon as he came on. To valuable to the team to leave on the bench.

[Lighthouse]

I think Adkins got it spot on actually, given the players available. Rod and JWP are both young and full of energy, more likely to cope with the pace of the Premier League. Lambert made much more of an impact against tired legs than he would have at the start and I doubt Davis had 90 minutes in him either. We were also much more like to hang on to our lead or draw with experience players on the pitch at the end. It didn't work out this time but we came mighty close.

[The9]

Doubts have been expressed in some quarters that RL won't be able to dominate centre-backs in the PL as he has done in the lower leagues. Its something I very much disagree with; I think he'll be just as effective in the air. As you say he was up against one of the best defenders in the whole league yesterday and still came out on top in the aerial challenges. Also with the ball at his feet; too often Guly wasn't able to hold on to it with his back to goal. Rickie can do that, and also has the vision to bring in other players around him with his quick feet.

 

I'm hoping that yesterday is an exception rather than the norm. Rickie needs to be on the pitch for as long as possible. We were a much better side yesterday with him up front rather than on the bench.

 

I think Adkins looked at it and decided we needed to defend with 11 from the start to give Lambert a chance to influence the game. I'm not sure he came out on top against Kompany, but he won a couple of headers in the box, and that was more than I had expected.

 

The most interesting thing for me was that we were capable of putting passes together much more rapidly than we did last year, and if we can do that and do it accurately we WILL be able to get the ball to Lambert as a target man in the box without needing him to be in the build up as well, which plays to his strengths. Ironically of course his goal came as a result of him being the link man in midfield and arriving late in the box. The system with Lambert in it will work provided our midfield can go ahead of him, which was what I was saying re: using him as a false nine a few weeks back.

[The9]

I think Adkins got it spot on actually, given the players available. Rod and JWP are both young and full of energy, more likely to cope with the pace of the Premier League. Lambert made much more of an impact against tired legs than he would have at the start and I doubt Davis had 90 minutes in him either. We were also much more like to hang on to our lead or draw with experience players on the pitch at the end. It didn't work out this time but we came mighty close.

 

Yup, the tactics were spot on, shame we couldn't stop them scoring.

[The9]

Totally agree Kraken! We were toothless up front until RL came on. Dont get me wrong, Guly did well, plenty of intelligent running but he's not Ricky. We had no one able to hold up play and let the others get forward in support. JRod, needs to find his feet so needs time, again he did well but on the left???

 

I think NA got it wrong with RL and hope he starts every game. He has impact from the start and clearly lifted his team mates as soon as he came on. To valuable to the team to leave on the bench.

 

I think he got it absolutely right, but against Wigan at home is a different prospect and we'll see different tactics.

[AussieDog]

Interesting how NA's tactics seem to polarise people. Now that I'm in Australia (and let's face it - the football here is cr4p!) I've watched a lot of Rugby League and that is very much a squad game, although there are key players who stay on the pitch for the full game. As somebody already mentioned, Sir Alex has no qualms in resting virtually any of his players, and the Premier League is high intensity from beginning to end and players like Ricky will need breathers from time to time and in certain games will have more of an impact coming off the bench. I was surprised to see Rickie on the bench but I think NA got it spot on yesterday.

[saint.tom.clancy]

I'm sure there weren't many people who were shocked to see Lamebrt on the bench, in hindsight though, a great decision. Perhaps having Sharp instead of Guly to hold up and chase would have been different, who knows though. Lambert looked quality when he came on though, turned the game around for 10 minutes at least. Anyone who thought he would struggle at this level was shut well and truly up yesterday, looking forward to him banging in a lot more this season. A mention to Davis as well, thought he looked decent and perhaps starting him ahead of JWP would have been more appropraite yesterday (not to say JWP looked out of place - just the experience of Davis would have been more beneficial)

[rooney]

We are going to see a lot more of these tactical games from NA this season, so we had better get used to it. It certainly is'nt going to be like the Championship or League 1. We are against top players now and have to adjust our game to compensate.

[david in sweden]

We are going to see a lot more of these tactical games from NA this season, so we had better get used to it. It certainly is'nt going to be like the Championship or League 1. We are against top players now and have to adjust our game to compensate.

 

 

exactly, you have to pick a team that can cope with the opposition's strongest players( and MC have a lot of those) , but some of the other sides we'll meet have fewer, and more obvious targets to mark.

I expect to see our team selections change a lot according throughout the season depending on who we play, but IMHO the start/ bench personnel will be roughly the same most matches..its just a case of

who starts and who will be the (impact) change players.

[david in sweden]

(not to say JWP looked out of place - just the experience of Davis would have been more beneficial)

 

It was a game of two halves and despite the goals against... we looked better and more creative in the second half after the substitutions.

 

JWP can take confidence from his first half outing, playing against the strongest team in the land on his Prem debut....... he didn't look totally out of place.

[david in sweden]

when subs were first introduced...1966 World Cup Final I think, it was only allowed to replace a seriously injured player.

 

Later it was allowed for tactical purposes and in the course of time ...upped to three subs.

 

 

Does no-one consider that subs. do provide an alternative tactical strategy, and aren't merely " second-choicers ".

 

The goals we conceded v. Man.City weren't due to strikers' misses, but defensive errors that could have been avoided.

 

I thought the tactics were superb. Rickie was fresh and it showed, and Steven Davis was " fit enough " for 45 mins. and acquitted himself very well.

 

After Sunday's game, I asked myself if Lambert would have so quick, or Davis fit enough... to have put away those chances had they battled for the previous 60 mins, also ?

[Ian the Red]

I think he got it absolutely right, but against Wigan at home is a different prospect and we'll see different tactics.

 

I have to disagree with you The9. Had City taken their numerous chances we would have been dead and buried by half time. That's the only reason that NA's tactics appear to have worked, the fact City didn't take their chances. We did not retain possession, did not make any significant threats on goal ( until Ricky came on) and did not defend that well. Ok we were playing probably the best team in the league, but what is the point in not playing your best striker?? RL gives us an outlet; he holds the play up, his distribution is usually pretty good; ok not the quickest but he has so many more valuable attributes that we cannot IMO afford to leave him out, unless he has an injury of course.....

[david in sweden]

...... what is the point in not playing your best striker?? RL gives us an outlet; he holds the play up, his distribution is usually pretty good; ok not the quickest but he has so many more valuable attributes that we cannot IMO afford to leave him out, unless he has an injury of course.....

 

 

I agree totally, but I think the opposition... .and the timing of the game (first of the season) meant that we needed to have a more defensive formation.

Had Rickie run himself into the ground in the first half, he likely wouldn't have been able to last the whole 90 mins.

 

I fully expect him to start v. Wigan and most of the other games this season, but the tactics were special - just for that match. Other similar games may mean some special tactical consideration

 

Ricky will IMHO play most of the season, (hopefully) but we must consider he is likely closer to the end of his career than say ... JayRod ..who has to get some games in, too.

 

No-one expects us to pay £7 million for someone to sit on the bench for 60/ 70 mins. every week...do they?

Edited 22 August, 2012 by david in sweden