Wigan Build Up

[The9]

Agree with some of this- Lambert's introduction coincided with NA deciding to go for it more and that as much as any accounted for our greater threat. Still Lambert won quite a bit in the air -comfortably so- and that made a real difference.

Only need to think back to Donny last season when Lambert was out and Guly played up front by himself to realise what we lose in the air without him. Still doesn't explain why Jrod, a more mobile player than Lambert but better in the air than Guly didn't go up top in the first half.

 

Actually Lambert won one header, it says so in the stats. http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/614054/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2012-2013-Manchester-City-Southampton - whilst Rodriguez won twice as many (though all defensively and he was on the pitch twice as long).

 

Guly didn't win any headers because we didn't cross the ball to him (our only crosses first half were 1 handballed by Zabaleta at source and the resulting free kick which was headed out for a corner, plus the corner, which was cleared). Our next cross was when Lambert came on. There was obviously a policy of not giving the ball away in those situations early on.

 

The reason Rodriguez wasn't up top was because the idea was to use his fitness, passing ability and pace to defend against Zabaleta and break down the left when we had the ball. After Guly went there we let 2 goals in but as we were much more attacking generally so gaps were going to occur.

 

Compare Rodriguez's tracking back with Puncheon losing Clichy when he should have scored. But that pass only came in because we were standing off Yaya Toure in midfield anyway. Also worth noting that Fox had more touches than any other Saints player. Ward-Prowse had fewer than Rodriguez in 10 more minutes.

 

Those stats show an interesting story, but I accept they're still lacking info like how often a player passed due to defensive pressure or misplaced a header due to an opposing jump, etc.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Actually Lambert won one header, it says so in the stats. http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/614054/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2012-2013-Manchester-City-Southampton - whilst Rodriguez won twice as many (though all defensively and he was on the pitch twice as long).

 

Guly didn't win any headers because we didn't cross the ball to him (our only crosses first half were 1 handballed by Zabaleta at source and the resulting free kick which was headed out for a corner, plus the corner, which was cleared). Our next cross was when Lambert came on. There was obviously a policy of not giving the ball away in those situations early on.

 

The reason Rodriguez wasn't up top was because the idea was to use his fitness, passing ability and pace to defend against Zabaleta and break down the left when we had the ball. After Guly went there we let 2 goals in but as we were much more attacking generally so gaps were going to occur.

 

Compare Rodriguez's tracking back with Puncheon losing Clichy when he should have scored. But that pass only came in because we were standing off Yaya Toure in midfield anyway. Also worth noting that Fox had more touches than any other Saints player. Ward-Prowse had fewer than Rodriguez in 10 more minutes.

 

Those stats show an interesting story, but I accept they're still lacking info like how often a player passed due to defensive pressure or misplaced a header due to an opposing jump, etc.

 

Its not just about crosses, I can vividly remember Guly failing to win clearances from our defence. At least once he did his usual thing of pretending to go for the ball but actually not jumping at all.

 

I'm not a Guly hater like some and I don't necessarily think it was a bad decision to start with Lambert n the bench but we did miss the latter's ability to hold the ball up when it was cleared in the air

[The9]

I think this position chart is pretty revealing - look at Lallana's "average position" and how advanced the fullbacks are.

 

 

This is why line-based formations are history. We played 2-6-2.

[DJ_TOAST]

Can't wait for tomorrow, got alot of steam to let off from sh1t week at work.

The Northam ain't gona know what's hit it.

da da da da, fckin useless. da da da da, fckin useless.

[The9]

Its not just about crosses, I can vividly remember Guly failing to win clearances from our defence. At least once he did his usual thing of pretending to go for the ball but actually not jumping at all.

 

I'm not a Guly hater like some and I don't necessarily think it was a bad decision to start with Lambert n the bench but we did miss the latter's ability to hold the ball up when it was cleared in the air

 

I think the idea was that we shouldn't be clearing it in the air to begin with (which is not to say we shouldn't try and control it afterwards).

 

I may have time later to rewatch on FF to see if that's the case. I don't think we played much long, but there's a bit of a difference in "heading" stats and "Fellainiesque" linking high balls to attacking team mates.

[BlakeySFC]

Lawro's Predicted we'll win...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19326517

[The Cat]

Reckon we'll see Lambert in for Puncheon with Guly on the right, and Davis in for Ward-Prowse. Same formation.

 

Hopefully with Moses buggering off Wigan will be despondant and we'll give them a hiding.

[Saint Garrett]

Lawro's Predicted we'll win...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19326517

 

Oh no...

[The9]

Lambert gave them a lift coming on. If he'd started and we'd been behind, it would have been hard to find that lift from the bench. He's scored so many goals players are bound to look for him.

 

Stats are an odd way to judge it. It was a game away to Man City. How does that relate to whether they should start at home to Wigan? How does it show any psychological benefit to having him on the pitch, or even any movement, or defenders being more wary of a player they know is a goal threat?

 

Fact is, Lambert got one half chance and scored against some of the best defenders and keeper in the league. His clear natural talent aside, the main reason I think Lambert was more likely than most to succeed at this level is his personality. He's very relaxed, doesn't get intimidated and believes in his ability. That's why he appears similar to MLT sometimes, he's just laid back. Especially after scoring immediately, he won't be nervous about facing Wigan or anyone else now. Start him tomorrow and I'm confident he'll get another goal.

 

That begs the question of whether Lambert was left out in order to provide a lift when we went behind, or if Adkins just thought leaving him out was the best way to minimise going behind in the first place. Bit of both I'd say.

 

The stats have nothing to do with me saying I think Lambert will start on Saturday, I can assure you of that.

 

Even the Prem stats seem remarkably subjective considering, I've just watched the 30 seconds after City opened the scoring, and whaddayouknow, hoof out of defence by Hooiveld, Guly wins the header and flicks it on, Puncheon doesn't read it and it goes off the pitch. Apparently according to the Prem's statkeepers, this doesn't count as Guly winning a header. According to some on here, Guly didn't win any headers either.

[Roger]

That begs the question of whether Lambert was left out in order to provide a lift when we went behind, or if Adkins just thought leaving him out was the best way to minimise going behind in the first place. Bit of both I'd say.

 

The stats have nothing to do with me saying I think Lambert will start on Saturday, I can assure you of that.

 

Even the Prem stats seem remarkably subjective considering, I've just watched the 30 seconds after City opened the scoring, and whaddayouknow, hoof out of defence by Hooiveld, Guly wins the header and flicks it on, Puncheon doesn't read it and it goes off the pitch. Apparently according to the Prem's statkeepers, this doesn't count as Guly winning a header. According to some on here, Guly didn't win any headers either.

 

Lambert for me is our best player and the main reason we are back in premier. He's turned into a local icon now and other fans of other teams respect him too. Even the sky commentators said that lamberts presence inspired our players and chafed game. If u moan at lambert it is a bit like moaning at any sporting hero for not being good enough. Matt le tiss was best saints player I've seen and I appreciated him at time and I think that's what we should do eith lambert whilst he's around. I don't get you trying to lay into him or price he isn't that good the guy is top class I think every other saints fan would say. He's not the problem. Centre back is and prob pace and left back. Lambert for me is our strongest threat.

[Saint Garrett]

Lambert for me is our best player and the main reason we are back in premier. He's turned into a local icon now and other fans of other teams respect him too. Even the sky commentators said that lamberts presence inspired our players and chafed game. If u moan at lambert it is a bit like moaning at any sporting hero for not being good enough. Matt le tiss was best saints player I've seen and I appreciated him at time and I think that's what we should do eith lambert whilst he's around. I don't get you trying to lay into him or price he isn't that good the guy is top class I think every other saints fan would say. He's not the problem. Centre back is and prob pace and left back. Lambert for me is our strongest threat.

 

It will be a sad day when Rickie leaves/retires.

[70's Mike]

Tough game because people expect us to win

discussed with my 2 lads they are already ready for a JCL giving players stick etc, i will have to control eldest in case he gives them a mouthful of abuse

[The9]

Just watching City v Saints, 44 mins 10 seconds, we have 10 men behind the ball.

 

Guly sprints from up front and closes down Yaya Toure ten yards inside our half, then closes down David Silva, then Jack Rodwell who gets the ball next, who passes to Nasri (marked by Puncheon), who plays it back 10 yards to Lescott (inside his own half). Guly heads for Lescott then chases after the pass to Kompany, who plays it back across the halfway line into Silva wide right. At this point we have Rodriguez and Lallana fronting up Silva and Guly finally stops chasing, some 20 seconds later and involving 3 sprints. After 40 minutes of play.

 

But no, he's LAZY.

[Saint Charlie]

Just watching City v Saints, 44 mins 10 seconds, we have 10 men behind the ball.

 

Guly sprints from up front and closes down Yaya Toure ten yards inside our half, then closes down David Silva, then Jack Rodwell who gets the ball next, who passes to Nasri (marked by Puncheon), who plays it back 10 yards to Lescott (inside his own half). Guly heads for Lescott then chases after the pass to Kompany, who plays it back across the halfway line into Silva wide right. At this point we have Rodriguez and Lallana fronting up Silva and Guly finally stops chasing, some 20 seconds later and involving 3 sprints. After 40 minutes of play.

 

But no, he's LAZY.

 

 

Yep - can level some faults at Guly's door but not laziness, almost find it quite amusing when people say that - almost some sort of sterotype Brazilian.

 

Adkins has commended his tracking back on numerous occassions.

[The9]

Lambert for me is our best player and the main reason we are back in premier. He's turned into a local icon now and other fans of other teams respect him too. Even the sky commentators said that lamberts presence inspired our players and chafed game. If u moan at lambert it is a bit like moaning at any sporting hero for not being good enough. Matt le tiss was best saints player I've seen and I appreciated him at time and I think that's what we should do eith lambert whilst he's around. I don't get you trying to lay into him or price he isn't that good the guy is top class I think every other saints fan would say. He's not the problem. Centre back is and prob pace and left back. Lambert for me is our strongest threat.

 

What the commentators say and what's actually happening are not always the same thing. It is easy to say "Lambert changed the game". It takes a little more analysis to see that Adkins changed the instructions to the midfield to adopt a higher risk strategy (more players forward, more crosses ?) after Lambert got on the pitch.

 

He might yet be the problem if we don't create any chances without committing 5 players to support him. 0-1 in an hour BR and then 2-2 in 30 mins AR tells it's own story.

 

I think the key might actually be how we played between conceding the goal and before Lambert came on, to see if we went higher risk from 40-55 mins (inc 4 mins of Aguero injury time) - though arguably Adkins could have persisted with the low-risk strategy even at 0-1 knowing he was planning on changing strategy with the introduction of Lambert and that the plan wouldn't work without him, just like keeping a lid on City for 55 minutes might not have worked with him.

 

To be honest I think he's a decent player to a point, and if he gets 15 League goals this season he'll prove he's a decent Prem player - even if 14 are tap-ins off his backside. I do think you massively overrate him on a Prem scale, and also how a lot of other people perceive his success so far though. There doesn't seem to be any reasoning that he hasn't (yet) done it at the top level. But that's your opinion, and that's fine.

Edited 24 August, 2012 by The9

[S-Clarke]

wigan without Moses!!!

 

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/latics-accept-blues-bid-for-moses-3209211.html?

 

Got a hunch he will have a farewell game.

[Roger]

What the commentators say and what's actually happening are not always the same thing. It is easy to say "Lambert changed the game". It takes a little more analysis to see that Adkins changed the instructions to the midfield to adopt a higher risk strategy (more players forward, more crosses ?) after Lambert got on the pitch.

 

He might yet be the problem if we don't create any chances without committing 5 players to support him. 0-1 in an hour BR and then 2-2 in 30 mins AR tells it's own story.

 

I think the key might actually be how we played between conceding the goal and before Lambert came on, to see if we went higher risk from 40-55 mins (inc 4 mins of Aguero injury time) - though arguably Adkins could have persisted with the low-risk strategy even at 0-1 knowing he was planning on changing strategy with the introduction of Lambert and that the plan wouldn't work without him, just like keeping a lid on City for 55 minutes might not have worked with him.

 

To be honest I think he's a decent player to a point, and if he gets 15 League goals this season he'll prove he's a decent Prem player - even if 14 are tap-ins off his backside. I do think you massively overrate him on a Prem scale, and also how a lot of other people perceive his success so far though. There doesn't seem to be any reasoning that he hasn't (yet) done it at the top level. But that's your opinion, and that's fine.

 

He has to prove he's a prem player mate of course. I just think he will. Give the bloke a chance. No one in our squad has proved they are prem quality yet. Let's just see what happens all I ask is u don't try and find faults with him every two mins cos he's pretty special for us I think.

[stevegrant]

Got a hunch he will have a farewell game.

Highly unlikely. He had his medical for Chelsea today.

[SaintSteve]

What the commentators say and what's actually happening are not always the same thing. It is easy to say "Lambert changed the game". It takes a little more analysis to see that Adkins changed the instructions to the midfield to adopt a higher risk strategy (more players forward, more crosses ?) after Lambert got on the pitch.

 

He might yet be the problem if we don't create any chances without committing 5 players to support him. 0-1 in an hour BR and then 2-2 in 30 mins AR tells it's own story.

 

I think the key might actually be how we played between conceding the goal and before Lambert came on, to see if we went higher risk from 40-55 mins (inc 4 mins of Aguero injury time) - though arguably Adkins could have persisted with the low-risk strategy even at 0-1 knowing he was planning on changing strategy with the introduction of Lambert and that the plan wouldn't work without him, just like keeping a lid on City for 55 minutes might not have worked with him.

 

To be honest I think he's a decent player to a point, and if he gets 15 League goals this season he'll prove he's a decent Prem player - even if 14 are tap-ins off his backside. I do think you massively overrate him on a Prem scale, and also how a lot of other people perceive his success so far though. There doesn't seem to be any reasoning that he hasn't (yet) done it at the top level. But that's your opinion, and that's fine.

 

Lambert is a class above any other player we have, irrespective of position.. u are blind if you can't see what he gives to the team. This includes Vision, Ball Control, quicker brain which more than makes up for lack of pace. The only games where he may not be 1st player on the team sheet is away against the top 4/5 - as NA does not want to waste his energy for 45 minutes chasing a lost cause. Leave that to Guly or Rodriques.

[LGTL]

Moses has gone. Good news for tomorrow.

[THEVMAN]

NC`s lovechild will be playing on the rightside of midfield instead of Puncheon,their has to be some sort of down on your knees in my office and you will play every game my Brazilian friend going on.

[S-Clarke]

NC`s lovechild will be playing on the rightside of midfield instead of Puncheon,their has to be some sort of down on your knees in my office and you will play every game my Brazilian friend going on.

 

TBF he played well against City, so deserves to keep his place.

 

Lambert up top them is my guess.

[THEVMAN]

Davis could be another possible starter

[Crab Lungs]

Davis could be another possible starter

 

THEVMAN, I've missed you. Careful round here though, there's a lot of people on edge waiting for transfer info from ITK'ers

[Saint Charlie]

Think it's harsh on Puncheon to be dropped, he was as good vs City has he could be and was one of the best players of pre season.

[syd_barrett_saint]

NC`s lovechild will be playing on the rightside of midfield instead of Puncheon,their has to be some sort of down on your knees in my office and you will play every game my Brazilian friend going on.

 

Lambert in the middle and Guly on the right was the change I was hoping would happen for this game. Seems quite sensible to me.

[Joesaint]

Think it's harsh on Puncheon to be dropped, he was as good vs City has he could be and was one of the best players of pre season.

 

Gully was better though, I though esp when he went to the left wing.

[supersonic]

Can't wait for this one, it's been 7 years since my last Saints game. Does Beattie still play for us?

[THEVMAN]

THEVMAN, I've missed you. Careful round here though, there's a lot of people on edge waiting for transfer info from ITK'ers

 

Well they can go and **** themselves their obsessions are their own problems,they need to get a life while i`ll keep all my secrets to myself

[SB]

NC`s lovechild will be playing on the rightside of midfield instead of Puncheon,their has to be some sort of down on your knees in my office and you will play every game my Brazilian friend going on.

 

THEVMAN, famous for being ITK, and you're one of the few posters I look out for when browsing this Internet forum, anyway without being all ghay, would you be able to shred any light on with Guly is a cortese signing, and if Cortese has any indulgence on they player and NA. For example telling NA Guly must be in the 25 man squad.

 

And to keep on topic, very much looking forward to a return to st Mary's tomorrow, COYR.

[Saint Charlie]

NA rates Guly. Hardly a revelation....

[Crab Lungs]

Well they can go and **** themselves their obsessions are their own problems,they need to get a life while i`ll keep all my secrets to myself

 

Legend

 

Give Adam a slap on the botty from me, and tell him he's got an immense quiff.

[The Cat]

Think it's harsh on Puncheon to be dropped, he was as good vs City has he could be and was one of the best players of pre season.

 

Personally I thought he was our least effective player on Sunday so have no qualms about him losing his place. I didn't see him pre season so can't comment on that.

[View From The Top]

Personally I thought he was our least effective player on Sunday so have no qualms about him losing his place. I didn't see him pre season so can't comment on that.

 

This.

[shirleysfc]

Personally I thought he was our least effective player on Sunday so have no qualms about him losing his place. I didn't see him pre season so can't comment on that.

 

I thought Rodriguez was the poorest of the top three last Sunday and really needs to play through the middle rather than out wide.

[benjii]

NC`s lovechild will be playing on the rightside of midfield instead of Puncheon,their has to be some sort of down on your knees in my office and you will play every game my Brazilian friend going on.

 

Too many shandies?

[Dig Dig]

Too many shandies?

 

It's a google translation from Italian I think

[Thedelldays]

I think kamara may be reporting from te game tomorrow

 

My mate is staying at the grand harbour tonight with his wife and he just posted a pic on Facebook with kammy

[Thedelldays]

Will it be the trusted formation from last year. Or te one from last week?

[dannysfc]

Am Buzzing for this game seeing as it's the first home game of the season and that I think we'l win 3-1

and I may put a fiver on it as well with goals from Lambert, Lalanna and Fox/S Davis for Saints and Moses

/Maloney for Wigan And hopefully teams around us will drop points as well But we'l see!!!

I'd stick with the same team tbh seeing as we gave it a Good Go at Man City last week But we'l see!!!

Anyone know this:

1). Will Lalanna start as captain again or will Fonte or someone take over as I hope Not?

2). What is the attendance for tomorrow and Will it sell out?

Thanks!

COYR!!!

[pingwing]

Moses has been sold it's all coming up Millhouse for my 5-0 special...

[ericofarabia]

Am Buzzing for this game seeing as it's the first home game of the season and that I think we'l win 3-1

and I may put a fiver on it as well with goals from Lambert, Lalanna and Fox/S Davis for Saints and Moses

/Maloney for Wigan And hopefully teams around us will drop points as well But we'l see!!!

I'd stick with the same team tbh seeing as we gave it a Good Go at Man City last week But we'l see!!!

Anyone know this:

1). Will Lalanna start as captain again or will Fonte or someone take over as I hope Not?

2). What is the attendance for tomorrow and Will it sell out?

Thanks!

COYR!!!

 

I never know whether to or at Danny's posts.

 

I have got around to realising that it doesn't do you any good waiting for a punctuation mark before you take your next breath!!

 

After 1 game every team bar Chelsea can either overtake us or we can overtake them!!

 

The P!ss poor OS haven't published tomorrow's attendance yet. NC Out.

 

UTS.

[sammysaint]

I personally think this game is a massive 6 pointer already if we lose this, its going to be hard to pick ourselves up vs Arsenal and Utd.

 

Lambo needs to and will start Jay Rod should also be upfront i think 4411 is a good option with him and guly rotating the free role, as lets be honest there seems to be too much love for Guly from NA, dont get me wrong guly is a talent but i thought he was awful 2nd half last week, he for me needs to be used vs the teams that don't press you as whens hes allowed a bit of time he can really shine.

 

We know the back 4 and keeper, but i think we need to got 4411 and switch around to 433 or 442 during the game.

[Gingeletiss]

I think that TL will play today, front three of TL...RL...JR, mouthwatering imho.

[Thedelldays]

anyone else looking forward to watching the game on a dodgy stream today...?

best part about going up..!!!

 

 

I would go for a tried and tested 442 sort of thing we played last season..

 

 

Davis

 

Clyne

Fonte

Hooiveld

Fox

 

Guly

Davis

Morgan

Lallana

 

Lambert

Rodriguez

 

 

 

Gazza

Richardson

Seaborne

JWP

Punch

Sharp

Lee

[hypochondriac]

anyone else looking forward to watching the game on a dodgy stream today...?

best part about going up..!!!

 

Totally agree with that. Luckily for me, a friend of mine can't go so I have his season ticket

[max_saints]

agree with this looking like a massive 6 pointer! 2-1 saints! lallana, sharp and kone the scorers!

[Saint Garrett]

-------Davis

Clyne Jose Jos Fox

---Morgan Davis

-Guly Lallana J-Rod

-----Lambert

[obelisk]

This match should be considered just as important as it would be if we were playing Wigan on the last day of the season while equal on points towards the bottom of the table. Three points are worth exactly the same today as in the Spring.

 

Even so, I'm looking forward to seeing Saints back in the Prem today. That powder puff performance in the last Prem game at St Mary's still rankles.

[Mowgli]

Davis

Clyne fonte jos fox

Morgan

Punch jwp Lallana j rod

Lambert

 

Davis to come on in midfield for a knackered jwp second half along with sharp and lee (around 65 minutes) for punch and either lambert or j rod - whoever is tiring most. Final score 2-0. Lambert and lee scores.