Wigan Build Up

[The9]

Surely you cannot completely ignore the point made though? We didnt create anything until Lambert got on. Nothing. It`s not like Adkins told the team "Rickie is on , lets attack". Rickie completely changed the game in our favour, through his skills. We were the better team after he was put in. his touch, presence, strength, link-up play and finishing was superb - better than any other striker on the pitch.

 

To say we/he would have done worse if he had started is just speculation. Personally i rue the fact that he didnt get the nod from the off. If he created that much havoc in half an hour, how much could he create in 90 minutes - even against City ? The undisputable fact is we were dire when attacking in the first half, and lucky not to see the game put to bed before SRL got his chance.

 

The trade off between having Rodriguez on the pitch and not was fairly evident from the scorelines. Rodriguez on, 0-1 in 60 minutes. Lambert on, 2-2 in 30 minutes. Rodriguez was used to keep the match close. That wouldn't have been the case without Rodriguez back there. Lambert didn't actually do a great deal when he was on the pitch - 16 short passes, won one header and scored (after bouncing his original pass off Lescott). He linked play in the centre circle on 2 occasions for us, one being his goal and the other Puncheon's chance later on but they were simple short passes followed by Lallana dribbling 20 yards up the pitch !

 

If anything having Lallana suddenly freed to go forward was the difference in our performance, which suggests it was a tactical change around Lambert's substitution, rather than his presence itself that made the difference. As I was there though I'll have to watch the whole 90 not just MotD to see what Lallana was doing until Lambert came on - I remember he was a strong defensive presence, but will have to see.

[Rod Le Shearer]

The trade off between having Rodriguez on the pitch and not was fairly evident from the scorelines. Rodriguez on, 0-1 in 60 minutes. Lambert on, 2-2 in 30 minutes. Rodriguez was used to keep the match close. That wouldn't have been the case without Rodriguez back there. Lambert didn't actually do a great deal when he was on the pitch - 16 short passes, won one header and scored (after bouncing his original pass off Lescott). He linked play in the centre circle on 2 occasions for us, one being his goal and the other Puncheon's chance later on but they were simple short passes followed by Lallana dribbling 20 yards up the pitch !

 

If anything having Lallana suddenly freed to go forward was the difference in our performance, which suggests it was a tactical change around Lambert's substitution, rather than his presence itself that made the difference. As I was there though I'll have to watch the whole 90 not just MotD to see what Lallana was doing until Lambert came on - I remember he was a strong defensive presence, but will have to see.

 

I don`t think its fruitfull to compare Jay and Rickie`s performances in this match, they played different positions. I guess my point is to question what warranted starting with Guly as the striker. Lambert won one header, Guly none. Lambert held the ball up/linked a couple of times, Guly was muscled off every time - and he did have opportunities to hold the ball. Lambert would IMO also have relieved a lot of pressure from the back four in those situations, and should (both on attacking and defending grounds) have started. It was also noticeable what effect Lambert`s physical presence had on City`s defence - something not measured by OPTA! Guly isnt exactly a workhorse himself, so I don`t buy that arguement either.

Guly played well when put in midfield, but a striker he just aint..

[Saint Without a Halo]

The trade off between having Rodriguez on the pitch and not was fairly evident from the scorelines. Rodriguez on, 0-1 in 60 minutes. Lambert on, 2-2 in 30 minutes. Rodriguez was used to keep the match close. That wouldn't have been the case without Rodriguez back there. Lambert didn't actually do a great deal when he was on the pitch - 16 short passes, won one header and scored (after bouncing his original pass off Lescott). He linked play in the centre circle on 2 occasions for us, one being his goal and the other Puncheon's chance later on but they were simple short passes followed by Lallana dribbling 20 yards up the pitch !

 

If anything having Lallana suddenly freed to go forward was the difference in our performance, which suggests it was a tactical change around Lambert's substitution, rather than his presence itself that made the difference. As I was there though I'll have to watch the whole 90 not just MotD to see what Lallana was doing until Lambert came on - I remember he was a strong defensive presence, but will have to see.

 

Rodriquez role as was the teams first half was to suck the poison and energy out of Man C. Lambert was brought on when the game was more open and we were asked to take chances and get forward. You cannot compare the two as each played their role well. The winner was Adkins who outfoxed Manc with excellent tactics that alomost payed off despite the gap in budgets, experience and class.

[SuperMikey]

We should look to control this game from start to finish. Wigan are a good attacking team but as they showed against Chelsea the other day, they have some holes in their defence that we can really exploit (Ooh, Matron!). Get at them, play pacy players, don't let them keep the ball and most importantly, the fans have to create a brilliant atmosphere for the players to thrive in.

 

----------------DAVIS-------------------

CLYNE-----FONTE-----HOOIVELD-----FOX

---------------MORGAN------------------

--------JWP-------------LALLANA--------

GULY----------LAMBERT-------RODRIGUEZ

 

Subs: Gazzaniga, Richardson, Seaborne, S.Davis, Puncheon, De Ridder, Sharp

 

Think Steven Davis has earned a starting place but Ward-Prowse was very impressive considering his age and think Davis could make a real impact with his energy if he came off the bench at around an hour as he did yesterday. If we can improve that squad above with 1 or 2 signings before this game then I think we'll be in a fantastic position! Got to win this game though against Wigan as the opportunities to pick up points early in the season with the fixtures that we have will be far and few between. Yesterday showed that we're not afraid to get in the faces of the big boys in this league and we didn't roll over at 3-2 like most would, we pressed so hard for that equaliser and their defenders had to make a few hasty clearances under lots of pressure from our forward line.

[Matthew Le God]

Think Steven Davis has earned a starting place but Ward-Prowse was very impressive considering his age and think Davis could make a real impact with his energy if he came off the bench at around an hour as he did yesterday.

 

For as well as Ward-Prowse played, I can't see him keeping Davis out of the starting XI once he is fully fit. Will have to see how fit he is come Saturday.

[saints_is_the_south]

If we have serious aspirations of staying up and better then we have to be beating teams like Wigan at home. I'm sure they'll be saying the same about us of course. Maloney limped off injured on Sunday and Moses could be off to Chelsea this week which would severely reduce their attacking options, although the striker Kone they bought recently is a decent striker.

 

Prediction - 3-1 Saints.

[Avenue Saint]

Davis

Clyne

Fonte

Jos

Fox

Guly

Morgan

Davis

Lallana

Jrod

Lambert

 

4-4-2, let's hammer them!

[Saint Paul C]

I'd like to see

 

Davis

 

Clyne - Fonte - Jos - Fox

 

------ Morgan ----

 

Guly -----Davis ---- Lallana

 

---- J-Rod - Lambert -----

[The9]

Rodriquez role as was the teams first half was to suck the poison and energy out of Man C. Lambert was brought on when the game was more open and we were asked to take chances and get forward. You cannot compare the two as each played their role well. The winner was Adkins who outfoxed Manc with excellent tactics that alomost payed off despite the gap in budgets, experience and class.

 

Dunno what that stuff about sucking poison out was, but having re watched the first 40 minutes, the reason we didn't create anything was, as I already said, that we didn't put anything into the box. Four or five times Lallana and Rodriguez got down the left and the only time the ball went towards the box Fox's cross was handled by Zabaleta and the free kick headed out for a corner then cleared. Gary Neville talked about Guly making 3 or 4 runs off the ball without being passed to, and the one time Rodriguez came inside he chested to Guly who was changing direction and unable to play him back in.

 

What I have noticed was how many times Fox gave the ball away, and Ward-Prowse's really short passes were a fair bit off on occasion and by 40 minutes even in the ground I noticed he'd taken to whacking it up the pitch.

 

Also noticed a cut to Adkins where he was saying passing it off the pitch was no good for us and we needed to keep the ball better.

 

Anyway, re watched the first half and we barely had the ball up the right wing and NEVER tried to pass it through the middle, more smart tactics to keep Yaya Toure out of the game.

Edited 21 August, 2012 by The9

[dubai_phil]

Mike's Fish & Chips it is Saturday then WOO HOO!

 

ST in the Chapel being used for 1st game!

 

God bless excuses for Business Trips.

 

Anyone want any duty free? (No all the tobacco allowances taken gang - sorry)

 

Just tie Moses's legs together and we'll rip them a new one

[Window Cleaner]

 

What I have noticed was how many times Fox gave the ball away, and Ward-Prowse's really short passes were a fair bit off on occasion and by 40 minutes even in the ground I noticed he'd taken to whacking it up the pitch.

 

 

Although I've only seen the first half so far I'd agree with you there, can't really see why JWP got rave notices cos his contribution to what I've seen so far is pretty minor and he gives the ball away quite often.Also loses his runner on a couple of occasions, gets taken to task by Morgan and Fonte for that as well. We need to start Davis as soon as he's fit enough to last the first 70 or so.

[Roger]

The trade off between having Rodriguez on the pitch and not was fairly evident from the scorelines. Rodriguez on, 0-1 in 60 minutes. Lambert on, 2-2 in 30 minutes. Rodriguez was used to keep the match close. That wouldn't have been the case without Rodriguez back there. Lambert didn't actually do a great deal when he was on the pitch - 16 short passes, won one header and scored (after bouncing his original pass off Lescott). He linked play in the centre circle on 2 occasions for us, one being his goal and the other Puncheon's chance later on but they were simple short passes followed by Lallana dribbling 20 yards up the pitch !

 

If anything having Lallana suddenly freed to go forward was the difference in our performance, which suggests it was a tactical change around Lambert's substitution, rather than his presence itself that made the difference. As I was there though I'll have to watch the whole 90 not just MotD to see what Lallana was doing until Lambert came on - I remember he was a strong defensive presence, but will have to see.

 

Lambert didn't do a great deal he scored? The hardest thing to do in football. U really are a complete numpty aren't u.

[dubai_phil]

Dear Saints fans picking teams.

 

We have not started a Mike Basset style 4-4-2 formation for almost 3 years.

[Sour Mash]

Expecting Wigan to sit deep and hit us on the counter with pace. Wouldn't be surprised at a Wigan win of 1-0/2-1.

[Turkish]

Expecting Wigan to sit deep and hit us on the counter with pace. Wouldn't be surprised at a Wigan win of 1-0/2-1.

 

Wouldn't be surprised at this. This is was often our undoing last season.

[Charlie Wayman]

No question, Rick Lambert will start on Saturday even if he is not fully fit and will last only 65 mins.

 

At home, attack has got to be the mantra and RL's ability to hold up and bring people in is unmatched, that and the shed-full of goals that he knocks in for fun.

 

ManC was a special case and Adders just about got it right, defend early on when they will be lively out of the traps and rely on our superior fitness to wear them down in the second. Ok so we didn't knick a point and a loss is a loss which ever way up you shake it but at least we didn't get thrashed and trashed.

[de-fence]

2-2

[hasper57saint]

I don't think for one second that NA will take Wigan for granted. He'll already have decided what formation he will use and hopefully we won't get egg on our faces like Brizzle last season. We may have played well on Sunday but we still have to ensure we don't lose our first home game.

[max_saints]

hopefully NA took note of how slow and clumsy Ramis was in the chelsea game and takes advantage of that

[Saint Garrett]

Any chance that Moses will have gone to Chelsea by the weekend ? I fear him the most.

[Johnny Shearer]

Mike's Fish & Chips it is Saturday then WOO HOO!

 

ST in the Chapel being used for 1st game!

 

God bless excuses for Business Trips.

 

Anyone want any duty free? (No all the tobacco allowances taken gang - sorry)Just tie Moses's legs together and we'll rip them a new one

 

 

A 1L bottle of Grey Goose ta!

[saint-crinny]

Lots of "let's batter them" chat on here - definitely wont be that straightforward for me, although i'd love to be proved wrong. Wigan have some good players, especially Moses if he is still there, and they were brilliant at the end of last season when they beat Liverpool, Arsenal and United to stay up.

 

Would be delighted with any victory, but like everyone, certain that Ricky will start this one. Tricky decisions for Adkins though - i thought Guly did well against City and Punch worked quite nicely with Clyne at times, especially considering the opposition, which leads me to look at dropping JR, which i also dont think NA wants to do. Pretty sure Davis will start in the middle too.

 

Team selection will be interesting for this one as it definitely sits in the "we need to win these kinds of games if we want to stay up" category - should give us a good insight into NA's thinking for the season ahead.

 

Whatever the selection, i cannot wait for it to come round!

[Avenue Saint]

Lots of "let's batter them" chat on here - definitely wont be that straightforward for me, although i'd love to be proved wrong. Wigan have some good players, especially Moses if he is still there, and they were brilliant at the end of last season when they beat Liverpool, Arsenal and United to stay up.

 

Would be delighted with any victory, but like everyone, certain that Ricky will start this one. Tricky decisions for Adkins though - i thought Guly did well against City and Punch worked quite nicely with Clyne at times, especially considering the opposition, which leads me to look at dropping JR, which i also dont think NA wants to do. Pretty sure Davis will start in the middle too.

 

Team selection will be interesting for this one as it definitely sits in the "we need to win these kinds of games if we want to stay up" category - should give us a good insight into NA's thinking for the season ahead.

 

Whatever the selection, i cannot wait for it to come round!

 

Hoping and expecting are two very different things my friend...

[The9]

Lambert didn't do a great deal he scored? The hardest thing to do in football. U really are a complete numpty aren't u.

 

No, Roger, he didn't do a great deal. The statistics prove it. 16 passes, 81% completion rate, one shot, one successful header. We also conceded twice as many goals with him on the pitch in half as much time as when Rodriguez was on the pitch, why do you think that might be ?

 

Oh, and by the way, remember my "Sharp will start more games than Lambert" claim ? It's currently 0-0. Though I am expecting Lambert to start on Saturday and would be surprised if Sharp did, but then Wigan at home is the sort of game I would expect us to play him in.

[The9]

I don`t think its fruitfull to compare Jay and Rickie`s performances in this match, they played different positions. I guess my point is to question what warranted starting with Guly as the striker. Lambert won one header, Guly none. Lambert held the ball up/linked a couple of times, Guly was muscled off every time - and he did have opportunities to hold the ball. Lambert would IMO also have relieved a lot of pressure from the back four in those situations, and should (both on attacking and defending grounds) have started. It was also noticeable what effect Lambert`s physical presence had on City`s defence - something not measured by OPTA! Guly isnt exactly a workhorse himself, so I don`t buy that arguement either.

Guly played well when put in midfield, but a striker he just aint..

 

Guly didn't win a header because no-one passed the ball at his head, we were keeping possession over getting it forward. Gary Neville commented on "3-4 runs Guly made off-screen" at one point which still didn't end up with him getting a pass from Fox on the left wing even with him in space.

 

We chose, as so often last season, to keep midfield possession rather than try to play any through balls and give the ball away. We barely got the ball into the box at all, preferring to attack down the left and not manage to get anything of note into a dangerous area even though Guly was often free.

 

Rodriguez and Lallana's pace, passing and their workrates were the key to us being able to hold the ball in City's half, and we blatantly obviously only attacked down the wings to keep the ball away from Toure, De Jong and Kompany. Adkins himself said he was trying to keep us in the game for as long as possible and give us a chance to get a result. City's biggest threat for a while around the 25 minute mark was Yaya Toure dropping deep and knocking passes, until Guly started pressurising him from behind and forcing him to move the ball on.

 

After the sub, Guly's abilities at "left wingback" probably weren't up to Rodriguez's standard but Lambert's "presence" for the goal before the rebound to him only involved him making a pass in the centre circle; and for Davis' goal, when he wasn't 1 of the 5 attacking Saints players on the counter. But we'd already changed to become more attacking at that point, we weren't chucking 5 players forward in the first 60 minutes.

 

But what warranted Guly's selection was Adkins not wanting to wear Lambert out chasing the ball in the first half, he basically said so.

 

To get back on topic, I don't expect we'll use the same tactics on Saturday and fully expect Lambert to start and be heavily involved as our target man. That's if Adkins doesn't prefer Rodriguez's mobility.

Edited 22 August, 2012 by The9

[Elmore]

If we want to stay up, this would have to be one of those "must win" games.

 

But just looking at the Wigan results last year - especially away from home in the second half of the season - they had some excellent results and of the ones they lost there was usually only one goal in it. They do concede goals, but not many, despite their 3-man defence.

[Thedelldays]

Wigan can be utterly brilliant....or that can be utterly disgusting..

 

depends on what wigan turns up

[Roger]

No, Roger, he didn't do a great deal. The statistics prove it. 16 passes, 81% completion rate, one shot, one successful header. We also conceded twice as many goals with him on the pitch in half as much time as when Rodriguez was on the pitch, why do you think that might be ?

 

Oh, and by the way, remember my "Sharp will start more games than Lambert" claim ? It's currently 0-0. Though I am expecting Lambert to start on Saturday and would be surprised if Sharp did, but then Wigan at home is the sort of game I would expect us to play him in.

 

I think Jessica Ennis should have won by 100 more points

[Saint Charlie]

Good news for us, SSN saying Wigan have now accepted a 9m bid for Moses, most likely won't play on Sat now...

[itchen_dan]

Absolutely great timing!!

[Appy]

No, Roger, he didn't do a great deal. The statistics prove it. 16 passes, 81% completion rate, one shot, one successful header. We also conceded twice as many goals with him on the pitch in half as much time as when Rodriguez was on the pitch, why do you think that might be ?

 

Oh, and by the way, remember my "Sharp will start more games than Lambert" claim ? It's currently 0-0. Though I am expecting Lambert to start on Saturday and would be surprised if Sharp did, but then Wigan at home is the sort of game I would expect us to play him in.

 

You seem bitter that Lambert has proved you wrong time and time again.

[Give it to Ron]

Good news for us, SSN saying Wigan have now accepted a 9m bid for Moses, most likely won't play on Sat now...

 

BBC Sport ‏@BBCSport

 

Breaking news: Wigan have accepted a bid from Chelsea for Victor Moses and given the player permission to speak to the club. #bbcfootball

[Glasgow_Saint]

We should sign Moses 9m is nothing

[tttdcs]

We should sign Moses 9m is nothing

. read post earlier :-)

[Roger]

You seem bitter that Lambert has proved you wrong time and time again.

 

He's still upset that messi didn't score 80 last season too.

[The9]

You seem bitter that Lambert has proved you wrong time and time again.

 

You seem incapable of noticing that I don't often criticise him for anything other than not being very mobile. And how's he "proven me wrong" ? I didn't say he wouldn't score this season, he was to all intents and purposes dropped (though I'd assume we were rotating the squad that's a MASSIVE change compared to last season when he was essential to everything) and his failure to be up with half of our team on the counterattack for the second goal nicely supports my point that he's not very mobile.

 

I'm happy to repeat that I think Sharp will start more games than Lambert in the Prem this season. Again with the rider that I first made that claim before we signed Rodriguez who is probably going to play more than both of them.

Edited 23 August, 2012 by The9

[The9]

He's still upset that messi didn't score 80 last season too.

 

I can't even begin to comprehend what the hell you're getting at.

[Saint_Mabes]

2-2

 

My prediction also! In fact i think I'll go check some odds for this!

[hypochondriac]

Normally I quite like you the9 but to suggest that Lambert didn't do a lot in the last game is totally mental.

[Roger]

I can't even begin to comprehend what the hell you're getting at.

 

Pele didn't score enough in the world cup did he?

[fanimal]

Back on subject; First Prem League game for 7 years; just rememberinghow I felt after Manure sent us down; Saturday afternoon routine again! Pub, and then lots of noise and a few goals to cheer.

 

WIFM!

[Saint Charlie]

Should be class. Two key team decisions are on Lambert and Davis.

 

For me Lambert has to play. I would put Guly on the bench and insert Lambert up front.

 

Re Davis it would be harsh to leave JWP out but ultimately Davis is a proven player and if fit will start IMO with JWP on the bench to make an impact later on.

 

Moses missing for them is a big blow (assume he definitely won't play?) and if Maloney was out too then that would be another boost.

 

We will have to get used to teams coming to St Marys and having more of the ball than anyone in the Championship and L1 did, and Wigan do pass the ball nicely.

 

Expect their new striker Kone will start.

[Papa Shango]

Lambert up front, Guly to the right, Puncheon to the bench. Otherwise keep it the same.

[krissyboy31]

We will have to get used to teams coming to St Marys and having more of the ball than anyone in the Championship and L1 did, and Wigan do pass the ball nicely.

Yep. There won't be much parking the bus by visiting teams in this division. Will give us a chance of opening up a few though!

[Saint Garrett]

Lambert up front, Guly to the right, Puncheon to the bench. Otherwise keep it the same.

 

Rodriguez to the left of Adam, Guly to the right, here we are, stuck in the middle with Morgan.

[S-Clarke]

Lambert up front, Guly to the right, Puncheon to the bench. Otherwise keep it the same.

 

Good shout, would agree with that.

[The9]

Normally I quite like you the9 but to suggest that Lambert didn't do a lot in the last game is totally mental.

 

He scored, and made one key pass (whatever that is). Nobody is suggesting Steve Davis changed the game but he scored as many goals.

 

We consciously were playing low risk possession football and not attacking in numbers until Lambert came on. Compare the 5 man break (which didn't include Lambert) with the response to us going forward for the entire first half. When Rodriguez and Lallana broke down the left in the first half they had Guly to aim for and that was it. When Lallana broke away in the last half hour there were plenty of supporting midfielders and options. Ward-Prowse was up there, he made ONE significant run forward in the first half.

 

It was as much that change to offensive-mindedness as anything any one player did, and that was due to Adkins giving them the nod to go forward, which coincided with introducing Lambert which was also a more attacking move. Until that point we had been just ensuring we didn't get thrashed for as long as possible. I have no problem with us changing tactics, I just wish people would broaden their minds and see the bigger picture.

 

Aaaaaaanyway, Wigan game... WDL: 7-2-2 in their last 11 Prem games. No mugs.

Edited 24 August, 2012 by The9

[shurlock]

He scored, and made one key pass (whatever that is). Nobody is suggesting Steve Davis changed the game but he scored as many goals.

 

We consciously were playing low risk possession football and not attacking in numbers until Lambert came on. Compare the 5 man break (which didn't include Lambert) with the response to us going forward for the entire first half. When Rodriguez and Lallana broke down the left in the first half they had Guly to aim for and that was it. When Lallana broke away in the last half hour there were plenty of supporting midfielders and options. Ward-Prowse was up there, he made ONE significant run forward in the first half.

 

It was as much that change to offensive-mindedness as anything any one player did, and that was due to Adkins giving them the nod to go forward, which coincided with introducing Lambert. Until that point we had been just ensuring we didn't get thrashed for as long as possible.

 

Agree with some of this- Lambert's introduction coincided with NA deciding to go for it more and that as much as any accounted for our greater threat. Still Lambert won quite a bit in the air -comfortably so- and that made a real difference.

Only need to think back to Donny last season when Lambert was out and Guly played up front by himself to realise what we lose in the air without him. Still doesn't explain why Jrod, a more mobile player than Lambert but better in the air than Guly didn't go up top in the first half.

[Saint Garrett]

Agree with some of this- Lambert's introduction coincided with NA deciding to go for it more and that as much as any accounted for our greater threat. Still Lambert won quite a bit in the air -comfortably so- and that made a real difference.

Only need to think back to Donny last season when Lambert was out and Guly played up front by himself to realise what we lose in the air. Still doesn't explain why Jrod, a more mobile player than Lambert but better in the air than Guly didn't go up top in the first half.

 

I don't know the stats on it, and I know there was a reason for setting up as we did and think NA got it pretty much spot on. BUT I can only remember us winning one game in the last few years while Rickie hasn't been playing and that is Forest away. The others I can remember are pretty awful. (Blackpool away, Donny away, Brighton away after he was sent off)

[The9]

Pele didn't score enough in the world cup did he?

 

You really are labouring an irrelevant point. MY point is that the entire team changed their attitude when given the go ahead to attack at 0-1 with 30 mins left.

 

Your point seems to be that Lambert's single goal which put us level at 1-1 in a match that we lost, was equal to winning a gold medal in the Olympics or one of the best players in the world scoring goals in the World Cup Finals and that I shouldn't expect any better. And I thought you liked Lambert?

 

It's still irrelevant, I feel I should repeat that he'll probably start against Wigan, as it looks like the sort of match we'll attack from the start and probably won't need a striker at left wing back.

Edited 24 August, 2012 by The9