This Charming Man Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Hardly blame him if Utd had had a quite word. Of course not. But it appeared Man Utd weren't interested when we were originally in for him. Their interest only seemed to come after this deal had been splashed all over the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Why do we just think we should pay what they want in the way they want it paid? If any of us was buying a house would we do that? On any deal you know how far you can go and when to walk away! But if you really wanted a house and were very close to doing a deal would you then walk away from it for the sake of a few grand? If a seller doesn't want to sell then you're not the one holding the aces. As i've said maytimes, this is the reverse situation to the AOC deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Buttner said that as well, but changed his mind pretty quick when Man U came calling Yer, well thats the reality of not being a 'top' club. There's nothing that we can do to help the deal through, It would be an amazing signing as a player, but if we cannot afford him then so be it. I'd rather not be in the position we were 4 years ago to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Whatever happens with this deal, in terms of attacking midfielders, we're in good shape. Chill out and enjoyt the season . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Update: Spurs now believed to be signing Pjanjc from Roma for 12m this week - he is the Modric replacement - they arent in for Ramirez. Where'd you read that, Charlie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Because it has been said many a time that we are difficult to deal with by agents, by not doing things in the 'normal' manner. Couple this with the deals for Jemal, Rosenior, Phillips and Ward. Don't hear about other clubs having these problems do you? I'm just speculating anyway, it just wouldn't surprise me if there are issues in the way we approach transfers. Are you saying that this is not possible, and we do everything by the book? Maybe you just don't hear about them. I'm always hearing about deals at Everton, Leeds & Palace struggling to get done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Red Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 If you agree to a transfer with non-standard terms (ie, more money up front), particularly in europe with a blabby chairman and agents you'll only make you're life more difficult in the future. If you cave to this one then the next will ask the same thing, then the next, then the next If you don't get your man so be it Some on here need to grow up. All part of the must have it now generation I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Where'd you read that, Charlie? On the twitter of one of the guys giving updates on Ramirez. Said its from an Italian paper that has very good links to the player - not someone I know a lot about personally? its virtually unheard of for any deal to be made up of a fee paid entirely within 1 year - not suprised we havent agreed to that...no other club would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Nixon thoughts are reassuring - he has been right all summer on Saints. Apart from when he has bad news, presumably? Nixon was the national journo who reported friction between NA and NC. He wasn't "right" then. (or was he?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Where'd you read that, Charlie? http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/spurs-look-to-roma-for-a-pjanic-buy-8062934.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Why do we just think we should pay what they want in the way they want it paid? If any of us was buying a house would we do that? On any deal you know how far you can go and when to walk away! Errr... because it's their star player that they don't want to sell. They hold all the aces in a situation like this and have us over a barrel. We don't meet their demands, no deal. Simple as that. Why would they go out of their way to sell a player they'd rather keep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Whatever happens with this deal, in terms of attacking midfielders, we're in good shape. Chill out and enjoyt the season . He plays well against Pterborough but they aren't in the Prem this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Errr... because it's their star player that they don't want to sell. They hold all the aces in a situation like this and have us over a barrel. We don't meet their demands, no deal. Simple as that. Why would they go out of their way to sell a player they'd rather keep? The player wants to leave which these days counts for a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 (edited) But if you really wanted a house and were very close to doing a deal would you then walk away from it for the sake of a few grand? If a seller doesn't want to sell then you're not the one holding the aces. As i've said maytimes, this is the reverse situation to the AOC deal. Ahh but Cortese knows Bologna need to sell they are cash strapped hence their requirment for so much up front. They are banking on another party coming in and Cortese is banking on the ticking clock till window close down forcing their hand. The closer we get to the end of the window the more difficult for another party to come particulalry as there are 4 deals to be done, player, agent, Penarol and Bologna Also it is not a few grand no club pays a full fee of that size in one year, all spread the payments over 3. Edited 21 August, 2012 by Saint Without a Halo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 The player wants to leave which these days counts for a lot. Then they'll sell him to someone who is willing to meet their demands. He wanted to leave last year when Inter and Roma came knocking but Bologna wouldn't sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Buttner said the same thing. That hardly worked out... The big question is, have we offered Ramirez's father 600k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 He plays well against Pterborough but they aren't in the Prem this season. No but Man Utd are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 He plays well against Pterborough but they aren't in the Prem this season. Did pretty well against Man U Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Whatever happens with this deal, in terms of attacking midfielders, we're in good shape. Chill out and enjoyt the season . Attacking midfielders that can't seem to shoot anymore aside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvictaSaint Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Then they'll sell him to someone who is willing to meet their demands. He wanted to leave last year when Inter and Roma came knocking but Bologna wouldn't sell. How many big clubs would agree to paying loads upfront and the rest within a year? Do you think Man Utd are doing this for RVP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintNeil90 Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Its funny that when the reports in the press are positive its a done deal on here. When they are negative, its just a press report and the deal is still on. Think we'll have to wait until 31st to see if it goes through or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wireframebox Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Update: Spurs now believed to be signing Pjanjc from Roma for 12m this week - he is the Modric replacement - they arent in for Ramirez. Nobody Pjanjc!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Then they'll sell him to someone who is willing to meet their demands. He wanted to leave last year when Inter and Roma came knocking but Bologna wouldn't sell. And with them asking for the full price within 1 year that will put a lot of top clubs off as its not the way transfers are usually structured. Will be interesting to see if a deal can be agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Buttner said that as well, but changed his mind pretty quick when Man U came calling According to who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Ahh but Cortese knows Bologna need to sell they are cash strapped hence their requirment for so much up front. They are banking on another party coming in and Cortese is banking on the ticking clock till window close down forcing their hand. The closer we get to the end of the window the more difficult for another party to come particulalry as there are 4 deals to be done, player, agent, Penarol and Bologna Also it is not a few grand no club pays a full fee of that size in one year, all spread the payments over 3. Not true. Liverpool paid £35m up front for Carroll, as did Chelsea and Torres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 How many big clubs would agree to paying loads upfront and the rest within a year? Do you think Man Utd are doing this for RVP? Arsenal did when signing a certain AOC. He was our star player, we didn't want to sell so gave Arsenal an ultimatium and all applauded NC (rightly so) for such a good deal. People now seem to be bemoaning this tactic when the shoe is on the other foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 According to who? The air. People seem to be plucking things out of the air here. Lets just wait. This is going to be too much of a roller coaster to be drawn either way. (even I've been guilty of that). This is case where the OS will be final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 I think you're mistaking bipolar disorder with people being a bit thick. So many just desperate to have an opinion and stick with it, yet it's based on absolutely nothing. If you point that out, they assume you're just really pro-Cortese or whatever. If there's no information, whether you think a transfer like this will happen says more about you than anyone involved in the deal. Fine to be positive or negative but admit that's what it is rather than trying to turn mindless speculation into supposed fact. I'm more on the negative side but as it's based on nothing, I prefer to sit back and wait. I don't know Cortese, I don't credit any press sources on him because it's pretty obvious they'd print such stories whether true or not. For the hard of logic, that's not defending Cortese or saying the stories are, it's saying they're irrelevant as they'd be there whether true or false. Some things seem obvious to assume though: 1) football transfers aren't straightforward. 2) the fan logic of 'just give them a few more million' doesn't end well'. 3) just because you're working on one deal doesn't stop you working on others. 4) one expensive deal failing would be an odd place to end the ambition and not make bids for other ambitious targets. 5) they're all aware we need CBs and will sort it out in some way regardless of how many times it's suggested on an internet forum. Bye for now xx Amen to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleonothing Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 What's the record number of pages on a thread on this form for signing / not signing a player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 The air. People seem to be plucking things out of the air here. Lets just wait. This is going to be too much of a roller coaster to be drawn either way. (even I've been guilty of that). This is case where the OS will be final. Indeed. Where did Buttner say "I want to sign for Southampton" followed by "Actually, Manchester United are in for me, I don't want to sign for Southampton" ? With regards to Ramirez I'm not excited, there's no point in getting worked up over it. If he signs, great, I look forward to watching him play for us. I don't know anything about the guy other than he's Uruguayan, a midfielder, played in the Olympics and is currently with Bologna. Nothing else. No amount of YouTube clips are going to force me into forming an opinion on him. If he doesn't sign, I'm honestly not bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 How many big clubs would agree to paying loads upfront and the rest within a year? Do you think Man Utd are doing this for RVP? £15m up front, £7m paid over next 2 years. This would mean we'd need to pay 4.5 million Euros to Penarol up front, and 10.2 million Euros to Bologna up front. So 14.7m Euros based on the Van Persie deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Hardly blame him if Utd had had a quite word. He says that Man Utd emailed him a month ago. Holloway would throw a shitfit. By pure coincidence, he found a reason not to move around the same time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Not true. Liverpool paid £35m up front for Carroll, as did Chelsea and Torres. I dont know if this is true but it is certainly not the norm also if it is Just because Chelsea are stupid why do we need to be? As I have said Bologna need the money maybe Liverpool didnt as far as Torres was concerned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Personally I think those who suffer from Bipolar disorder should steer well clear of internet football forums… In fact probably best to steer clear of football altogether! If you're naive to think that a Bipolar disorder is just something that is suffered by those that don't agree with you then I think you need to take a good, long, hard look at yourself, and grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Arsenal did when signing a certain AOC. He was our star player, we didn't want to sell so gave Arsenal an ultimatium and all applauded NC (rightly so) for such a good deal. People now seem to be bemoaning this tactic when the shoe is on the other foot. Exactly. Yet when people point this out they're accused of having a go at Cortese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 One of the reports linked on here said that bologna wanted €10mill immediately ,then the other €5 million within a year! That is playing hardball compared with normal football transfer procedures. Obviously ,as with all negotiations , it depends who wants/needs it more -- the buyer or the seller. Who will blink first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 I wish I hadn't read the previous 4 pages. I was fine before with no cares in the world, now I'm on edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Exactly. Yet when people point this out they're accused of having a go at Cortese. I put the "rightly so" in so I wouldn't get lynched by the Cortese Gestapo on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 I wish I hadn't read the previous 4 pages. I was fine before with no cares in the world, now I'm on edge. Snap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 I think you're mistaking bipolar disorder with people being a bit thick. So many just desperate to have an opinion and stick with it, yet it's based on absolutely nothing. If you point that out, they assume you're just really pro-Cortese or whatever. If there's no information, whether you think a transfer like this will happen says more about you than anyone involved in the deal. Fine to be positive or negative but admit that's what it is rather than trying to turn mindless speculation into supposed fact. I'm more on the negative side but as it's based on nothing, I prefer to sit back and wait. I don't know Cortese, I don't credit any press sources on him because it's pretty obvious they'd print such stories whether true or not. For the hard of logic, that's not defending Cortese or saying the stories are, it's saying they're irrelevant as they'd be there whether true or false. Some things seem obvious to assume though: 1) football transfers aren't straightforward. 2) the fan logic of 'just give them a few more million' doesn't end well'. 3) just because you're working on one deal doesn't stop you working on others. 4) one expensive deal failing would be an odd place to end the ambition and not make bids for other ambitious targets. 5) they're all aware we need CBs and will sort it out in some way regardless of how many times it's suggested on an internet forum. Bye for now xx That's just not true though is it? Nobody is trying to tuen speculation into fact. People are speculating based on previous transfer dealings, and the information that is available to them. Just because people on this forum only seem to deal in black and white doesn't mean that those putting forwards contrary opinions are necessarily wrong. People are very close minded here, and increasingly myopic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 I dont know if this is true but it is certainly not the norm also if it is Just because Chelsea are stupid why do we need to be? As I have said Bologna need the money maybe Liverpool didnt as far as Torres was concerned? It's not the norm, but it does happen and quite often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Glad you see it that way. It's been my take on it for a while Cortese tries to play it straight, but there aint no such thing in the murkey world of transfer negotiations Now if 'Arry Boy had been in on it, we'd have had Buttner and Ramirez long ago Like it or not, if we want to STAY in the Prem, we MUST get street wise to the way all other Prem Clubs operate I'm not saying it's right, but it's certainly the way it is, not just for Football, but in most other aspects of Big Business negotiations You plank. 'Arry is no magician when it comes to transfers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Exactly. Yet when people point this out they're accused of having a go at Cortese. But as I keep saying Bolgna need the money and Cortese knows that! So what he is doing is right by protecting the clubs interests and not going for a deal that doesnt suit us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 People are very close minded here, and increasingly myopic. Which was pretty much the crux of adrians post IMO. Bottom line is none of us know how these things happen, no two transfers are probably ever the same, and yet we have endless discussions between people seemingly only intent on a bit of one-upmanship, rather than putting across their opinion, as they are quite entitled to do, but with the realisation that anything could still happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Right enough of this rubbish. Let's get to work. We KNOW that Agent Trousers is driving down the spine of Italy right at this moment. He had clear instructions on taking the route through Bologna (See Lounge a month or so ago) Someone needs to PM him tell him to ditch the family and get into the City Centre and get us the PROPER news. I mean, how are we expected to go Ballistic without PROPER TSW confirmation? FFS I've already burnt 4 Saints Shirts today. If Trousers cannot solve this then sod it, I'm off to support Al Wasl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Red Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 People are speculating using the previous transfers that went wrong as evidence and ignoring the ones that went right. We keep transfers quiet if we get the option. People have no idea how long the ones that went right took to complete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wireframebox Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 People are speculating using the previous transfers that went wrong as evidence and ignoring the ones that went right. We keep transfers quiet if we get the option. People have no idea how long the ones that went right took to complete Billy Sharp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 But if you really wanted a house and were very close to doing a deal would you then walk away from it for the sake of a few grand? If a seller doesn't want to sell then you're not the one holding the aces. As i've said maytimes, this is the reverse situation to the AOC deal. A simplistic view and probably inaccurate, but I respect your view and your voice to right it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 This thread is getting just a bit silly now. Think we need some news either way for the sake of some peoples sanity. Can't believe the re: the Buttner deal people aren't making more of the whole 3rd party deal pulled at the 11th hour. Was widely reported at the time that SFC had no blame in the deal falling through. Also, DPS - Rangers also said our behaviour in that deal was exemplary. This whole 'not a football man' is a strange one, barring Dave Whelan how many Chairmen/women/CEO's etc are 'football men' - what does that term even actually mean? Is that not also part of L. Reed's job description? To help NC in the recruitment process? The Torres-Carroll fees were a bit of an anomaly really, certainly NFC only got that off LFC due to last min nature of those deals, and the fact LFC got the £50m lump sum for Torres. I swear there were quotes of Llambias basically saying they were taking the mickey? Yes, lump sum fee's do take place (pretty sure C. Ronaldo to Madrid was one £80m payment), but these are usually, the 'glamour' deals - look at the players usually involved Torres, Ronaldo et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surrey1saint Posted 21 August, 2012 Share Posted 21 August, 2012 Indeed. Where did Buttner say "I want to sign for Southampton" followed by "Actually, Manchester United are in for me, I don't want to sign for Southampton" ? With regards to Ramirez I'm not excited, there's no point in getting worked up over it. If he signs, great, I look forward to watching him play for us. I don't know anything about the guy other than he's Uruguayan, a midfielder, played in the Olympics and is currently with Bologna. Nothing else. No amount of YouTube clips are going to force me into forming an opinion on him. If he doesn't sign, I'm honestly not bothered. Yep,if it happens great, if not ....on to the next target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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