St Lej Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Well, was too good to be true. Blackpool are refusing to negotiate with Saints, so we're back at step 1. I wonder whether this was to placate the fans that we were looking at decent targets, with the knowledge that it would never be agreed, hence why we were so prepared to smash our wage structure as it was never going to happen. Perhaps similar with the Buttner deal. Just under 2 weeks left for a RW, 2 x CB's and a LB. Jesus Christ. You really are absolutely clueless aren't you
Guest flickjax Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Clearly not true So what stars have we signed? Not saying we haven't signed good players but no real wow signings.
Thedelldays Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Another case of Cortese wanting it both ways it seems. When we didn't want to sell Chamberlain they had to meet our terms, now the boot is on the other foot it seems like he might be prepared to lose the deal because he's not prepared to meet theirs. If this deal doesn't happen only one person is to blame. Why are you quick to have a pop at him NC Maybe we just don't have the money to pay whatever upfront? Should we do a Pompey?
JoeShmoe Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Oh well, would have been great but hopefully we have other targets
Thedelldays Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 So what stars have we signed? Not saying we haven't signed good players but no real wow signings. I am amazed that you think we could get "wow" signings? Christ
ToreSF Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 I'm glad we´re not bending over to Bolognas demands. We are still a small club and its probably smart to not let us be bullied by the bigger ones.
This Charming Man Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Shame about this deal falling through, if current reports are to be believed. Weird that we've now had 2x deals - Buttner and Ramirez both fall through after players have publicly stated how they've agreed deals and can't wait to join. Starting to get the impression we're being used by agents to help promote their players. Buttner off to Man Utd now and wouldn't be surprised to see Ramirez move on to a big side as well now. Probably best we stick to snapping up the NPC team of the year.
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Do you really think that? We tried this because we thought we want to sign him, it wasn't to do with appeasing fans what so ever. We never seem to do things the 'right way', which makes me think that a lot of it is just bluster. Before you sign a player, you agree a deal with the club. As the Bologna president said, that never happened. Surely that is the first thing that happens on a player who's price is high, because you need to know that you can afford it.
Thedelldays Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 We never seem to do things the 'right way', which makes me think that a lot of it is just bluster. Before you sign a player, you agree a deal with the club. As the Bologna president said, that never happened. Surely that is the first thing that happens on a player who's price is high, because you need to know that you can afford it. Never do deals the right way? How on earth can you say that, what is your experience is football transfers?
Thedelldays Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Yep tantrums in full flow Lots of dummies being spat out
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Jesus Christ. You really are absolutely clueless aren't you Why am I clueless? If you can put forward a good argument then it may be accepted.
thornhill_saints Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 At the moment no one knows what is going on, only the people in the meeting, I suggest we should wait until it's official either he has signed or not!
Giordano Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Gazetta dello Sport also confirms Ramirez likely departure in an article by looking at Bologna's probable replacements...and possible tactical changes as a consequence. I think it would be beneficial to watch a few of bologna's games from last season to see how they got the best out of Ramirez (if we get him!) in a 3-4-2-1 line up - they are now talking of going to a 3-5-1-1 in consequence though im sure we already have done all that ...im not clear his role in a 3-4-2-1 tbh- will find out! From my research to date though it seems Ramirez has the Bologna team playing to his strengths as much as possible so he is designated playmaker but from a more advanced position than the classic quarterbacl- pirlo style playmaker....ramirez is given the ball as much as possible and given free rein to "make things happen"... http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Squadre/Bologna/20-08-2012/bologna-tormentone-51-incognita-ramirez-912310424824.shtml
JoeShmoe Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Laudrup is using his Spanish connections to snap up cheap, quality players from Spain. You'd hope NC would do something similar in Italy?
Turkish Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Why are you quick to have a pop at him NC Maybe we just don't have the money to pay whatever upfront? Should we do a Pompey? It's quite simple Jamie. If you can't afford a player don't bid for them. The player wants to sign, Bologna want to do a deal with us but on their terms as they don't want to sell its exactly like when AOC wanted to go to Arsenal. He can't expect clubs to now to his demands when selling then want it On his terms as well when buying.
MerceSaint28 Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Very disappointed if this one doesn't come off...reports seem to be changing by the hour... This would of been the biggest signing we have had since Keegan...gutted As a Saints fan this would of be the one signing to really excite the fans...this will be very painful
Roger Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 People need to calm down. Cortese is being sensible and we don't know it's over yet. Although cortese is an awkward bugger he's done a lot of very good things for us and I trust him to do right thing.
norwaysaint Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 It'll be interesting to see where this goes. He was clearly keen to come here and now Bologna have ruled it out. Will one of the big clubs be happy with the sort of deal we wouldn't agree to? Or will Ramirez be in the awkward position of having to stay despite having been so happy to leave? If nobody else meets their demands, they could be the losers rather than us. Anyway move on and find other targets. Jos didn't join us until later than this last year.
Minty Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 At the moment no one knows what is going on, only the people in the meeting, I suggest we should wait until it's official either he has signed or not! Whilst I would agree, 2000+ posts demonstrate that most others would not...!
Thedelldays Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 It's quite simple Jamie. If you can't afford a player don't bid for them. The player wants to sign, Bologna want to do a deal with us but on their terms as they don't want to sell its exactly like when AOC wanted to go to Arsenal. He can't expect clubs to now to his demands when selling then want it Lyon his terms as well when buying. You bid what you think he is worth, right? If bologna decide he is worth a great deal more. Then at some point you don't bid any more? Don't let that stop ŷou having a pop. If we don't have the money to spend, then we don't have the money to spend. I don't see what arsenal has to do with it
S-Clarke Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 People need to calm down. Cortese is being sensible and we don't know it's over yet. Although cortese is an awkward bugger he's done a lot of very good things for us and I trust him to do right thing. Exactly this. People seem to react stronger to negative reports, yet quickly dismiss any positive reports.
St Lej Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Why am I clueless? If you can put forward a good argument then it may be accepted. Ok I will expand. If you seriously think we'd waste 4-5 days contacting a club, meeting with officials and negotiating a potential deal we never expect to complete just to keep the fans happy, then yes , I think you have no idea what you are talking about.
The Kraken Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Laudrup is using his Spanish connections to snap up cheap, quality players from Spain. You'd hope NC would do something similar in Italy? Michael Laudrup is a former great footballer who has previously played and recently managed in Spain. Nicola Cortese is an Italian businessman, previously based in a Swiss bank. I'm not sure the two can be readily compared quite so easily.
Roger Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 It's quite simple Jamie. If you can't afford a player don't bid for them. The player wants to sign, Bologna want to do a deal with us but on their terms as they don't want to sell its exactly like when AOC wanted to go to Arsenal. He can't expect clubs to now to his demands when selling then want it On his terms as well when buying. Well we had it sorted so we could of afforded him but they changed the deal.
Saint Without a Halo Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Exactly. Either we pay what they want or they hawk him around elsewhere. They hold all the cards here. No they dont 10 days left they need money! this is a poker game
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Never do deals the right way? How on earth can you say that, what is your experience is football transfers? Because it has been said many a time that we are difficult to deal with by agents, by not doing things in the 'normal' manner. Couple this with the deals for Jemal, Rosenior, Phillips and Ward. Don't hear about other clubs having these problems do you? I'm just speculating anyway, it just wouldn't surprise me if there are issues in the way we approach transfers. Are you saying that this is not possible, and we do everything by the book?
thorpie the sinner Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Before the whole site goes into meltdown, GR to saints hasn't been resoved one way or other yet! Conflicting reports left, right and centre, lets just wait for confirmation either way!!! I know the meltdown will continue by the way, just thought I would try and add a little perspective
redsaints106 Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 We haven't signed anyone for about a month. NA promised 2 signings before the Man City game - still waiting. As we have said all along since Martin joined CP on loan we need 1 / 2 Cbs - still waiting. Wish I'd never heard of Ramirez ..................... Saints always get your hopes up and then let you down. Seriously how old are you? The last two years have been fabntastic , get some perspective!
wireframebox Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 To be fair to everyone at the club, I don't think anyone has actually said we're looking to sign him?
Tokyo-Saint Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Where's the bladdy hotel worker when you need him? Will someone please get him to deliver some croissants into that meeting room and then post up here what they are talking about!
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Ok I will expand. If you seriously think we'd waste 4-5 days contacting a club, meeting with officials and negotiating a potential deal we never expect to complete just to keep the fans happy, then yes , I think you have no idea what you are talking about. There has been no evidence that we've met with their club officials, in fact quite the opposite. Plus, I was just speculating, I said 'I wonder'. Are you telling me that there is no chance this would have happened? All I am saying is if we could not afford the player in the first place why would all this take place unless to try to show our ambition in a false light.
Bearsy Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 FFS! Did I jump the gun???? You ****s on here assured me it was a done deal! sfc1971 I'm coming for you, you ****!
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 FFS! Did I jump the gun???? You ****s on here assured me it was a done deal! sfc1971 I'm coming for you, you ****! Haha, brilliant.
Papa Shango Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Think people need to calm down. This deal may very well still happen. All parties are obviously keen so lets just wait and see. If it doesn't happen then it's not the end of the world. As we showed on Sunday we've got plenty of quality in the squad already.
SaintRichmond Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Shame about this deal falling through, if current reports are to be believed. Weird that we've now had 2x deals - Buttner and Ramirez both fall through after players have publicly stated how they've agreed deals and can't wait to join. Starting to get the impression we're being used by agents to help promote their players. Buttner off to Man Utd now and wouldn't be surprised to see Ramirez move on to a big side as well now. Probably best we stick to snapping up the NPC team of the year. Glad you see it that way. It's been my take on it for a while Cortese tries to play it straight, but there aint no such thing in the murkey world of transfer negotiations Now if 'Arry Boy had been in on it, we'd have had Buttner and Ramirez long ago Like it or not, if we want to STAY in the Prem, we MUST get street wise to the way all other Prem Clubs operate I'm not saying it's right, but it's certainly the way it is, not just for Football, but in most other aspects of Big Business negotiations
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Think people need to calm down. This deal may very well still happen. All parties are obviously keen so lets just wait and see. If it doesn't happen then it's not the end of the world. As we showed on Sunday we've got plenty of quality in the squad already. I think people are pretty calm to be honest, I think there is just slight frustration that this would be sucha big signing and statement of intent that has been sold to us, but we cannot get the deal done. Cortese isn't a football man, and I do think this is starting to show.
The Cat Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Saints finished 2nd in the top flight within the lifetime of a large number of people on this forum. I was only 5 then, so for me this could be the best. I tend to forget the average age of the users of this site is quite high.
Saint Charlie Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Situation: We know the terms they are asking for. The player wants to come. We have a price we have offered. They want more up front....its up to us to see if we can get close to their demands and agree something. The article quoted says that hasnt yet happened. It might later today or tomorrow though.
Guan 2.0 Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Glad you see it that way. It's been my take on it for a while Cortese tries to play it straight, but there aint no such thing in the murkey world of transfer negotiations Now if 'Arry Boy had been in on it, we'd have had Buttner and Ramirez long ago Like it or not, if we want to STAY in the Prem, we MUST get street wise to the way all other Prem Clubs operate I'm not saying it's right, but it's certainly the way it is, not just for Football, but in most other aspects of Big Business negotiations If 'Arry boy had been on it, we'd have Crouch, Fuller, Callum Davenport, and some aged midfielder who never plays, and whose transfer goes missing. Also, we'd be relegated.
Saint Without a Halo Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Because it has been said many a time that we are difficult to deal with by agents, by not doing things in the 'normal' manner. Couple this with the deals for Jemal, Rosenior, Phillips and Ward. Don't hear about other clubs having these problems do you? I'm just speculating anyway, it just wouldn't surprise me if there are issues in the way we approach transfers. Are you saying that this is not possible, and we do everything by the book? I for one am glad we dont bend over on deals and we always seek what is best and good value! That is a sign of a well run business (not over yet though no one else has accepted to pay all the money in 1 year)
Papa Shango Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 I think people are pretty calm to be honest, I think there is just slight frustration that this would be sucha big signing and statement of intent that has been sold to us, but we cannot get the deal done. Cortese isn't a football man, and I do think this is starting to show. Transfers are extremely complicated, a lot of clubs have had trouble signing players they want this summer. Nothing to do with Cortese. The fact that we've convinced the player to join us is an achievement in itself.
JoeShmoe Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Not sure why people are pointing the finger at Cortese, not even the big clubs pay all fees up front, it's structured. If they are trying to hold us to ransom he's quite right to hold his ground. We may only have a certain amount of usable funds to spend before then end of September and don't want to spend it all on one player
Dig Dig Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 I would take every report with a pinch of salt to be fair, positive and negative. If it doesn't come off though, just consider that we've managed to keep hold of all our stars so far and we've got 10-15 goal midfielders already in Chaplow and De Ridder.
Giordano Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Thanks to Buctootim for finding this.... http://www.goal.com/it/news/7/calciomercato/2012/08/21/3321121/i-tifosi-del-bologna-possono-sorridere-salta-il-trasferimento-di-?source=breakingnews The interesting thing is the last sentence. The correct (accurate)translation is "that in the transfer market you never know". Elsewhere in that supposed article (that i cannot find in the gazzetta online btw) is the revealing comment that " the two parties (meaning saints and bologna) remain VERY CLOSE. Also that Ramirez is going to be an unhappy as he was positive about the deal we offered. Its not over. This smells of finessing the deal. As supposedly "reported" they want a substantial up front and the rest in one year, the Penarol bit is not discussed. Its NOT the price we are haggling over- its teh payment terms. That is usually the last thing after the basic price principle has been agreed. IF we have access to the substantial amount requested up front i don't think NC will walk away. MY real fear is that this will flush out thh likes of tottenham or a. n other club...maybe milan for instance seeing as they just let cassano go...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Situation: We know the terms they are asking for. The player wants to come. We have a price we have offered. They want more up front....its up to us to see if we can get close to their demands and agree something. The article quoted says that hasnt yet happened. It might later today or tomorrow though. But surely this should have been agreed prior to talking to the player. NC has worked in banking for a long time, so knows that cash is king, so would not have left negotiations short unless we had not agreed a fee. Agree it could still happen, but considering that NC seems quite stubborn, I can see him refusing to be bullied to pay what he doesn't want to (even if that is not too much for Saints).
Saint Without a Halo Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 I think people are pretty calm to be honest, I think there is just slight frustration that this would be sucha big signing and statement of intent that has been sold to us, but we cannot get the deal done. Cortese isn't a football man, and I do think this is starting to show. Harry is a football man Cortese is a businessman I know which one i would want on this deal!
InvictaSaint Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Thanks Gio; makes me feel more hopeful. Interesting about flushing out other suitors - would any of the bigger clubs put so much up front with the rest in a year, when even they are used to more staged payments? Not dead yet, methinks...,
Papa Shango Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Thanks to Buctootim for finding this.... http://www.goal.com/it/news/7/calciomercato/2012/08/21/3321121/i-tifosi-del-bologna-possono-sorridere-salta-il-trasferimento-di-?source=breakingnews The interesting thing is the last sentence. The correct (accurate)translation is "that in the transfer market you never know". Elsewhere in that supposed article (that i cannot find in the gazzetta online btw) is the revealing comment that " the two parties (meaning saints and bologna) remain VERY CLOSE. Also that Ramirez is going to be an unhappy as he was positive about the deal we offered. Its not over. This smells of finessing the deal. As supposedly "reported" they want a substantial up front and the rest in one year, the Penarol bit is not discussed. Its NOT the price we are haggling over- its teh payment terms. That is usually the last thing after the basic price principle has been agreed. IF we have access to the substantial amount requested up front i don't think NC will walk away. MY real fear is that this will flush out thh likes of tottenham or a. n other club...maybe milan for instance seeing as they just let cassano go... Think that's exactly what Bolongna are trying to do. As long as nobody else comes in with a mega offer I think we'll still sign him. Bologna seem keen to sell.
Saint Charlie Posted 21 August, 2012 Posted 21 August, 2012 Thanks to Buctootim for finding this.... http://www.goal.com/it/news/7/calciomercato/2012/08/21/3321121/i-tifosi-del-bologna-possono-sorridere-salta-il-trasferimento-di-?source=breakingnews The interesting thing is the last sentence. The correct (accurate)translation is "that in the transfer market you never know". Elsewhere in that supposed article (that i cannot find in the gazzetta online btw) is the revealing comment that " the two parties (meaning saints and bologna) remain VERY CLOSE. Also that Ramirez is going to be an unhappy as he was positive about the deal we offered. Its not over. This smells of finessing the deal. As supposedly "reported" they want a substantial up front and the rest in one year, the Penarol bit is not discussed. Its NOT the price we are haggling over- its teh payment terms. That is usually the last thing after the basic price principle has been agreed. IF we have access to the substantial amount requested up front i don't think NC will walk away. MY real fear is that this will flush out thh likes of tottenham or a. n other club...maybe milan for instance seeing as they just let cassano go... Basically means there is no deal now but there might be at some point. Pretty much the same as yesterday.
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