Gaston Ramirez - Signs 4 Year Deal

[Nolan]

Pretty sure I read somewhere that Ramirez agent is complaining about the wages Spurs offered. So unless we are prepared to really up our maximum wage then I think today's supposed meeting will be over pretty quickly.

 

Who's to say Spurs didn't offer £20,000 to £25,000 per week? I don't see a number quoted anywhere...

[skintsaint]

going off on a tangent, has his agent Oscar Betancourt got other players on his books as it says Cortese is meeting the agent rather than the club.

[norwaysaint]

Any player willing to sign for saints is clearly well below the level we need to be signing and if they're not, then frankly I question their ambition.

[dubai_phil]

He obviously does. Dont forget he turned down AC Milan to stay with us.

 

But of course.

 

Our plan is much more exciting than theirs

 

[dubai_phil]

stupid ? ....you mean we shouldn't be trying to sign players of his ilk ?

 

If indeed we are in for Ramirez - whether we succeed or not - it does show some ambition. He was good in the Olympics, and I can recall that Swedes went potty when Anders Svensson signed after his World Cup wonder goal in 2002. Bit like our fans when Keegan signed for Saints.

 

Cortese surely has lots of Italian contacts and if Bologna are in financial troubles - (who isn't in Italy?) - then he might be able to make them an offer ........they can't afford to refuse.

 

woosh

[suewhistle]

Anyone could declare their interest in signing Ramirez, it may show ambition but all slightly irrelevant if you don't sign him.

 

Well, the club haven't actually said anything, but I don't get the impression that NC is a tyre-kicker when it comes to business. He wouldn't waste somebody else's time and he certainly would waste his own.

[Turkish]

Well, the club haven't actually said anything, but I don't get the impression that NC is a tyre-kicker when it comes to business. He wouldn't waste somebody else's time and he certainly would waste his own.

 

Ask Neil Warnock and Ellot Ward if they are with you on that.

[This Charming Man]

Well, the club haven't actually said anything, but I don't get the impression that NC is a tyre-kicker when it comes to business. He wouldn't waste somebody else's time and he certainly would waste his own.

 

The Peterborough chairman refused to do business with us over Mackail-Smith as our original offer was so derogatory, it was deemed a waste of their time.

[Thedelldays]

The Peterborough chairman refused to do business with us over Mackail-Smith as our original offer was so derogatory, it was deemed a waste of their time.

I suppose it is a matter of opinion...he has hardly lived up to his price tag at all.....

[MOSaint]

3.5m is a good price for a headless chicken

[Monk]

Shaqiri, Ramirez, Breno, A.Johnson, Dani Benitez and Kevin DeBryune all players I have seen linked to us from the more 'solid' agents, reporters or club staff.

 

Nothing has pulled off yet, worried we are eventually going to be the NPC team of the year from 2012.

[S-Clarke]

Cortese wants a huge statement signing, that's what I've been told anyway.

 

I just hope we aren't putting all our eggs into one basket.

[This Charming Man]

Cortese wants a huge statement signing, that's what I've been told anyway.

 

I just hope we aren't putting all our eggs into one basket.

 

His chance was to do that instead of signing J Rod. A 20 goal a season, goal scoring machine would've been a nice statement of intent.

[InvictaSaint]

The Peterborough chairman refused to do business with us over Mackail-Smith as our original offer was so derogatory, it was deemed a waste of their time.

 

Given Mackail-Smith's subsequent 'success' maybe NC's offer was nearer the mark than the crazy amount BHA paid for him...

[This Charming Man]

Given Mackail-Smith's subsequent 'success' maybe NC's offer was nearer the mark than the crazy amount BHA paid for him...

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. At the time he was commanding a high fee as he was scoring for fun and we offered well, well below the going rate at the time. That's how football works.

[Faz]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. At the time he was commanding a high fee as he was scoring for fun and we offered well, well below the going rate at the time. That's how football works.

 

We were right. The market was wrong.

 

We went up. BHA didn't.

[S-Clarke]

We were right. The market was wrong.

 

We went up. BHA didn't.

 

I think that's a fair assessment. CMS was never worth more than £2m.

 

Billy Sharp - 1.5m, 24 goals last season. CMS - 3.5-4m - 12 goals. Excellent.

 

I think he's a lower league centre forward, I wlays thought that about him. Lots of running around and waiting for the oppo to make mistakes, when the mistakes get less he's often quiet as he struggles to make things happen on his own. Very much like a certain Brett Ormerod.

 

Players like Austin, Maynard etc were much better all round players than him.

[shurlock]

I think that's a fair assessment. CMS was never worth more than £2m.

 

Billy Sharp - 1.5m, 24 goals last season. CMS - 3.5-4m - 12 goals. Excellent.

 

I think he's a lower league centre forward, I wlays thought that about him. Lots of running around and waiting for the oppo to make mistakes, when the mistakes get less he's often quiet as he struggles to make things happen on his own. Very much like a certain Brett Ormerod.

 

Players like Austin, Maynard etc were much better all round players than him.

 

Like you, think he's overrated though Brighton's system hasn't played to his strengths either.

[Turkish]

The Peterborough chairman refused to do business with us over Mackail-Smith as our original offer was so derogatory, it was deemed a waste of their time.

 

I've also heard the same regarding Matt Phillips when he was at Wycombe. Apparantly the Wycombe chairman was so p*ssed off he refused to take anymore calls from anyone at SFC.

[Monk]

I've also heard the same regarding Matt Phillips when he was at Wycombe. Apparantly the Wycombe chairman was so p*ssed off he refused to take anymore calls from anyone at SFC.

 

This is true.

[This Charming Man]

I've also heard the same regarding Matt Phillips when he was at Wycombe. Apparantly the Wycombe chairman was so p*ssed off he refused to take anymore calls from anyone at SFC.

 

Mine is 100% fact as the chairman tweeted about it after a Saints fan asked if we'd bid.

 

Yours is probably made up.

[Turkish]

Mine is 100% fact as the chairman tweeted about it after a Saints fan asked if we'd bid.

 

Yours is probably made up.

 

This is true.

 

F*ck you.

[rshephard3]

His chance was to do that instead of signing J Rod. A 20 goal a season, goal scoring machine would've been a nice statement of intent.

 

Exactly this. Double the JRod fee, offer someone £40,000 a week and accept the fact that these are the prices that guarantee goals in the premiership. We'd all be banging on about our great new centre forward.

[Faz]

Exactly this. Double the JRod fee, offer someone £40,000 a week and accept the fact that these are the prices that guarantee goals in the premiership. We'd all be banging on about our great new centre forward.

 

Someone like Steve Fletcher you mean? Spending £15m on him would definitely have everyone on side.

[Johnny Shearer]

Exactly this. Double the JRod fee, offer someone £40,000 a week and accept the fact that these are the prices that guarantee goals in the premiership. We'd all be banging on about our great new centre forward.

 

Someone like Steve Fletcher you mean? Spending £15m on him would definitely have everyone on side.

 

Really? Plenty of players have turned out duds that have been brought in on silly money.

[rshephard3]

Someone like Steve Fletcher you mean? Spending £15m on him would definitely have everyone on side.

 

Someone like one of the lads who ended up at Newcastle last year thanks to their excellent scouting. If you're lazy and look just in England you end up paying mad prices for the likes of Fletcher, I agree. But if SFC have ambitions beyond a relegation scrap, they ought to have spent more than 6.5 million on a centre forward, IMHO.

[rshephard3]

Really? Plenty of players have turned out duds that have been brought in on silly money.

 

Fair point, Torres being a classic example I guess. But as a general rule, money will buy goals, that is the general trend isn't it? Yes, there are exceptions, but across the board, the most expensive players are the most talented. The Manchester clubs teams cost a fortune, they finished 1st and 2nd last season. Wolves team cost a fraction, they got relegated. Sunderland proved a few years ago that if you persist for a period with high spending you can consolidate a team in the top flight. Keane did a poor job there but they still had enough to consolidate because of expenditure. It's not everyones view, I accept that, but there is a trend of squad investment and success in English football. If we are one of the richest around I'm surprised we haven't invested quite a lot more heavily than we have.

[Dig Dig]

Someone like one of the lads who ended up at Newcastle last year thanks to their excellent scouting. If you're lazy and look just in England you end up paying mad prices for the likes of Fletcher, I agree. But if SFC have ambitions beyond a relegation scrap, they ought to have spent more than 6.5 million on a centre forward, IMHO.

 

So we should have spent more on a striker to gaurentee goals but should have signed Ba and Cisse who cost less than Rodriguez?

 

And whatever the reason why we haven't signed anyone in a few weeks, I'm sure it's not laziness.

[Dig Dig]

Fair point, Torres being a classic example I guess. But as a general rule, money will buy goals, that is the general trend isn't it? Yes, there are exceptions, but across the board, the most expensive players are the most talented. The Manchester clubs teams cost a fortune, they finished 1st and 2nd last season. Wolves team cost a fraction, they got relegated. Sunderland proved a few years ago that if you persist for a period with high spending you can consolidate a team in the top flight. Keane did a poor job there but they still had enough to consolidate because of expenditure. It's not everyones view, I accept that, but there is a trend of squad investment and success in English football. If we are one of the richest around I'm surprised we haven't invested quite a lot more heavily than we have.

 

Wolves have a striker which has been priced at 15MM. Would Fletcher gaurentee goals? How many more goals would he score than Rodriguez? As he's more than double the price, I calculate that he would score over double the amount of goals and 15 times more than Lambert.

[rshephard3]

So we should have spent more on a striker to gaurentee goals but should have signed Ba and Cisse who cost less than Rodriguez?

 

And whatever the reason why we haven't signed anyone in a few weeks, I'm sure it's not laziness.

 

Well Cisse was £8 million. Ba, granted, free transfer. Went to West Ham for an undisclosed fee. Both command wages that would count as the investment I talk of.

 

If not laziness, maybe an inability to attract larger profile names for whatever reason. Maybe we aren't prepared to break a wage structure.

[rshephard3]

Wolves have a striker which has been priced at 15MM. Would Fletcher gaurentee goals? How many more goals would he score than Rodriguez? As he's more than double the price, I calculate that he would score over double the amount of goals and 15 times more than Lambert.

 

I just described the Fletcher price as mad. That said he's a better player than Rodriguez at this point. What would Fletcher guarantee if up top all season? 12 league goals maybe? He's been, and will be a good premiership player. Yes, the price is high(see my previous post)but how many goals do you see Rodriguez contributing this season? And as a more general point, it is subjective as to whether we have invested enough in fee's and wages. You may think yes, I think no, at this point.

[Dig Dig]

Well Cisse was £8 million. Ba, granted, free transfer. Went to West Ham for an undisclosed fee. Both command wages that would count as the investment I talk of.

 

If not laziness, maybe an inability to attract larger profile names for whatever reason. Maybe we aren't prepared to break a wage structure.

 

I'm not even sure it's about the wage structure. For every player we're interested in, you'd have a fair idea of what you'd have to pay in wages before hand.

 

It's more likely to be that the club have a very specific recruitment policy which looks at much more than just playing ability. Therefore it's very likely that we have a few targets in mind and negotiations with the club and player require a certain level of time and patience.

 

Or it could just be that we are **** at transfer negotiations, who knows? Laziness and going around offering poor wages relative to the player we want seems unlikely IMO

[Dig Dig]

I just described the Fletcher price as mad. That said he's a better player than Rodriguez at this point. What would Fletcher guarantee if up top all season? 12 league goals maybe? He's been, and will be a good premiership player. Yes, the price is high(see my previous post)but how many goals do you see Rodriguez contributing this season? And as a more general point, it is subjective as to whether we have invested enough in fee's and wages. You may think yes, I think no, at this point.

 

Your general point I agree with.... The best players cost more.

 

However, caught up in all the high fee's which good players attract is a fair amount of distinctly average players and Fletcher is a good example. 12 goals would be average at best from a striker you spent 15MM on. Rodriguez could get that amount of goals, Danny Graham did last season but none of us would say we should spent that amount of money on them.

 

Andy Carroll....35MM for 4 league goals.

 

The general principle of paying the most for the best players is ruined by the greed and knee jerk stupidity in football so I would say that the correlation between money and success is dwindling in the modern game.

[Jonnyboy]

Your general point I agree with.... The best players cost more.

 

However, caught up in all the high fee's which good players attract is a fair amount of distinctly average players and Fletcher is a good example. 12 goals would be average at best from a striker you spent 15MM on. Rodriguez could get that amount of goals, Danny Graham did last season but none of us would say we should spent that amount of money on them.

 

Andy Carroll....35MM for 4 league goals.

 

The general principle of paying the most for the best players is ruined by the greed and knee jerk stupidity in football so I would say that the correlation between money and success is dwindling in the modern game.

 

What is MM?

[hypochondriac]

Your general point I agree with.... The best players cost more.

 

However, caught up in all the high fee's which good players attract is a fair amount of distinctly average players and Fletcher is a good example. 12 goals would be average at best from a striker you spent 15MM on. Rodriguez could get that amount of goals, Danny Graham did last season but none of us would say we should spent that amount of money on them.

 

Andy Carroll....35MM for 4 league goals.

 

The general principle of paying the most for the best players is ruined by the greed and knee jerk stupidity in football so I would say that the correlation between money and success is dwindling in the modern game.

 

Well clearly not. The teams with the most money have the most success.

[Dig Dig]

Million

[Jonnyboy]

Milliom?

[Dig Dig]

Well clearly not. The teams with the most money have the most success.

 

Yes, because they are so rich they can afford to chuck 35 million down the drain every now and then. Point is that in today's market, paying 15 million quid for a player doesn't gaurentee quality anymore.

[hypochondriac]

Yes, because they are so rich they can afford to chuck 35 million down the drain every now and then. Point is that in today's market, paying 15 million quid for a player doesn't gaurentee quality anymore.

Did it ever guarantee quality?

[Dig Dig]

Milliom?

 

MM denotes a million in the financial world. I'll stop using it and use milliom instead though from now on

[Dig Dig]

Did it ever guarantee quality?

 

You wouldn't have to go back too far to see when very average players began creeping into double 8 figure sums.

[hypochondriac]

You wouldn't have to go back too far to see when very average players began creeping into double 8 figure sums.

All that means is that prices have risen for the more quality players, not that there was a time when paying a lot for player guaranteed quality and now that is not the case. Of course prices rise, that has always been the case in football. There are always exceptions (like Torres who may still come good and Carrol) but generally if you pay a lot and have done proper scouting then you are much more likely to get quality. Of course this is qualified by the fact that an English player always costs a hell of a lot more.

[Jonnyboy]

MM denotes a million in the financial world. I'll stop using it and use milliom instead though from now on

 

 

Learn something newevery day.

[The9]

Exactly this. Double the JRod fee, offer someone £40,000 a week and accept the fact that these are the prices that guarantee goals in the premiership. We'd all be banging on about our great new centre forward.

 

I'd be doing that about Rodriguez if we stopped playing him on the wing, he looked decent down the middle against Arsenal (reserves).

[The9]

Fair point, Torres being a classic example I guess

 

Champions League winner, European Championship Golden Boot, FA Cup winner, European Championship Winner, winning goal at the Nou Camp... All last season.

 

A few years left on his contract and the three players who had been ahead of him having left so they can now build a system around his style of play... Yeah, waste of money.

[SuperMikey]

I think the idea is, as Nigel has repeatedly said, to buy players who will grow with the club. If we'd bought a Darren Bent type player for 'a significant investment' and progressed slower than we'd hoped (i.e. lower table for 2 or more years) then that player in his prime would look to move on to gain more success before he starts to decline. An extreme example of that is RVP - undoubtably a highly talented player who's looking to move to from Arsenal, a good team but not highly successful in recent years, to a top, top team to win trophies before he gets too old.

 

Jay Rod may get 6 or 7 goals this season, but next season with a year of top flight experience and coaching under his belt, he could get 10 or 11. The year after that as the club pushes on, he could get 13 or 14 goals. These are players who all have great potential and will only get better as time goes on.

 

To survive in the Premier League this season it's not absolutely neccessary to have a 20-goal hotshot in the team, it's more about the team itself and being solid. As we push on and look towards challenging for Europe, those goals will be more vital to compete in the upper echelons of the table. Goals which will be provided and scored by proper Saints players who have an affiliation with the club, not Bent-style mercenaries.

[Wade Garrett]

I think the idea is, as Nigel has repeatedly said, to buy players who will grow with the club. If we'd bought a Darren Bent type player for 'a significant investment' and progressed slower than we'd hoped (i.e. lower table for 2 or more years) then that player in his prime would look to move on to gain more success before he starts to decline. An extreme example of that is RVP - undoubtably a highly talented player who's looking to move to from Arsenal, a good team but not highly successful in recent years, to a top, top team to win trophies before he gets too old.

 

Jay Rod may get 6 or 7 goals this season, but next season with a year of top flight experience and coaching under his belt, he could get 10 or 11. The year after that as the club pushes on, he could get 13 or 14 goals. These are players who all have great potential and will only get better as time goes on.

 

To survive in the Premier League this season it's not absolutely neccessary to have a 20-goal hotshot in the team, it's more about the team itself and being solid. As we push on and look towards challenging for Europe, those goals will be more vital to compete in the upper echelons of the table. Goals which will be provided and scored by proper Saints players who have an affiliation with the club, not Bent-style mercenaries.

 

A romantic sentiment straight out of the Rupert Lowe handbook, and we all know what happened there. High fees and wages are part of the industry. We certainly benefitted from it when we sold Walcott, Bale and Chamberlain, and this is the other side of the coin.

Personally, I would view Rodriguez as a waste of money if he barely broke double figures in the next 2 seasons, as I'm sure he would himself. I have much higher hopes for him.

[david in sweden]

this is rumour number 60 (according to the Echo list anyway) and one wonders how many of these are really a genuine interest.

 

Yes we have signed 4 of them .......and we understand that probably another 3 or 4 (e.g. Butland ) didn't happen... and some others have gone to new clubs.

I can't believe that we even considered a half of these, and it may well be that those we eventually do sign... may not even be on the list.

 

Really makes you wonder what passes for the truth these days. Perhaps these sad journo's should quit the media and go and write a mystery novel instead.

[Saint Charlie]

Whilst it seems very unlikely, Ramirez would have huge resale value given his age, and you would imagine he isnt on mega money at Bologna so there might be something in it, who knows.

[david in sweden]

I think the idea is, as Nigel has repeatedly said, to buy players who will grow with the club. If we'd bought a Darren Bent type player for 'a significant investment' and progressed slower than we'd hoped (i.e. lower table for 2 or more years) then that player in his prime would look to move on to gain more success before he starts to decline. An extreme example of that is RVP - undoubtably a highly talented player who's looking to move to from Arsenal, a good team but not highly successful in recent years, to a top, top team to win trophies before he gets too old.

Jay Rod may get 6 or 7 goals this season, but next season with a year of top flight experience and coaching under his belt, he could get 10 or 11. The year after that as the club pushes on, he could get 13 or 14 goals. These are players who all have great potential and will only get better as time goes on.

 

To survive in the Premier League this season it's not absolutely neccessary to have a 20-goal hotshot in the team, it's more about the team itself and being solid. As we push on and look towards challenging for Europe, those goals will be more vital to compete in the upper echelons of the table. Goals which will be provided and scored by proper Saints players who have an affiliation with the club, not Bent-style mercenaries.

 

 

After being a fan for many years, one has to admit that Saints has been successfully dubbed " an unattractive club " by successive generations of media experts. Not since Lawrie McMenemy's glory days have we been able to attract top class players to the club and for the first 7 or 8 years of the Prem. we hung on by our fingernails even to the last day.so my definition of " likely signings " can be placed into several categories.

 

a) Few clubs with successful players are likely to sell them - even for silly money. .and even if they wanted a move.

b) Those on the market are either; "misfits " , injury-prone or not upto the general standard of the teams they are already with.

c) almost none of the " London-based " players we've had (over several decades) has successfully adjusted to the " country life on the South Coast " which lacks the " glamour" of the London scene.

d) the best alternative is to get someone who is on the up, but not regular at his own club...(as was James Beattie example) ..someone about to be passed over for a newer player, or

e) buy foreign ..with all the cultura , language socail problels attached ..(although admittedly sometimes it does works )

f) ...." grow your own " ...ala.. Academy.

 

There is no way ..IMHO a player like Bent would even consider moving here . and I hope we wouldn't spend the sort of money he'd cost to buy and maintian.. .even considering his past record.

Edited 15 August, 2012 by david in sweden