Is It The Southampton Way or the highway For Nigel Adkins?

[itchen]

Exactly. On the one hand Cortese has massive ambition and rescource when it suits, such as the chucking 20,000 seats onto the stadium on a whim and worry about how to pay for it later, yet now apparantly we cant afford to buy established top flight players.

 

Bloody hell. I didn't see those new seats when I drove past last night. Where have they put them?

[aintforever]

I think some of you are confusing trying to do things the Barca way with actually trying to be Barcalona.

 

I am concerned with the lack of top quality signings but can see the thinking behind the signings we have made.

 

There is a limit to the type of player we can attract because we are newly promoted and are expected to go straight back down. To get a decent player we really need to pay over the odds and I expect there is a limit to how much Cortese will be willing to waste. If they think the squad has enough about them to stay up then it makes sense to plan long term, get good young players in who will increase in value.

[up and away]

It does and it doesn't. It depends how deep you have to drop to collect and hold up the ball. The deeper you drop, evidently to get clear of your CB, the harder it is for others to launch any kind of meaningful attack -everything just gets bunched up in the middle. The criticism of Drogba was that over time he was dropping deeper and deeper. Lambert has also been guity of this at times.

 

Exactamundo. We have not done too bad from this approach but it does have it's weaknesses in that you still need the striker to do the job originally asked. At the present we don't have a striker that can really influence a game, We don't look that bad a side but the worst combination for the Premier. Too pedestrian in how we mount our attack, no player who can take the game by the scruff of the neck and not able to penetrate in numbers. Add to that an inexperienced defence intent upon passing in possession and it does not bode well. All our forwards (Ricky, JRod, Lallana, Puncheon, Sharp +) give glimpses of their capability, but nothing that looks good enough for the long haul.

 

Adkins has said he wants to tighten up defensively for the Premier but there is no much sign on the ground that is being done effectively. These are Adkins own words and Cortese will not have got into that but there is some merit in what Adam Blackmore has said. The whole of pre-season and he transfer window will be based upon a certain style of play combined with a certain type of player. I feel we require one real quality signing that I doubt we could get in a straight purchase but possibly available from the loan window. That will still give us plenty of time if required as long as we see the problem if presented to ourselves.

[Saint Fan CaM]

It's a reasonable article to be fair.

[Thedelldays]

I am stunned how the words "backwards" and "failing" are being used for pre season games

 

As have said before

Last summer some were on suicide watch as we drew away to Yeovil just before the season started. The same words about lamber, the words failure and formation.... And here we are again

 

How many time has Adkins said this is a system being worked out so it will complement the other 2 the players are more than used to

 

I would wait 10 games before suggesting if we are a failure or if Lallana is going backwards or if indeed lambert is not interested

[derry]

Why should the abandoning of 4-4-2 have to be an order from above or be viewed as some kind of betrayal of some ancient pinciples? Everybody needs to be aware that basic formations have evolved over the last 100 years. You ould equally think that 4-4-2 betrayed 4-2-4, which in turned betrayed WM, etc. The modern world of top football plays variations of 4-3-3. Blackore's idea that we are copying it from Barca is both ill informed and disregards reality.

 

4-4-2 is still predominantly played in L1 nd 2 and in the CCC, because they aren't mainly managed by forward looking and successful managers. Instead they are plowing on with an eye in the past. Players we recruit from those leagues will therefore be used to that way of playing. But we are recruiting them because we think that they will be good enough for the PL. If they are they will also be good enough to play progressiv football, like they do a lot in the PL.

 

We are not in the lower divisions anymore, so let's not play as if we were. NA seems forward looking enough for me to learn from and play like the best, so why would he have to be told by the Chairman? Can we start moing into the 21st century now?

 

Bert, don't make the mistake of thinking that the system is the most important thing, it isn't. It is no earthly use buying a striker for £7m then deciding to play him as a wide midfielder who is far from pacy in a 4-3-3/4-5-1 system because he has to play. The personnel needed to play the 4-3-3/4-5-1 successfully would not be the same to play the 4-4-2. What we have done is take players who are successful in 4-4-2 and assume that those same players can be moved around and provide an efficient 4-3-3/4-5-1. Three or four are like fish out of water. If we are going to play this way then we have to bring in 3/4 players that fit the system.

[shurlock]

Bert, don't make the mistake of thinking that the system is the most important thing, it isn't. It is no earthly use buying a striker for £7m then deciding to play him as a wide midfielder who is far from pacy in a 4-3-3/4-5-1 system because he has to play. The personnel needed to play the 4-3-3/4-5-1 successfully would not be the same to play the 4-4-2. What we have done is take players who are successful in 4-4-2 and assume that those same players can be moved around and provide an efficient 4-3-3/4-5-1. Three or four are like fish out of water. If we are going to play this way then we have to bring in 3/4 players that fit the system.

 

Come on- you would still be calling out for pace either way. What's your preference: 4-4-2 with two pacy wide men?

[scotty]

It is no earthly use buying a striker for £7m then deciding to play him as a wide midfielder who is far from pacy in a 4-3-3/4-5-1 system because he has to play.

 

That would almost be like buying Mark Hughes, then using him as a midfielder. Who would do something that daft?

[The9]

Come on- you would still be calling out for pace either way. What's your preference: 4-4-2 with two pacy wide men?

 

Give it a week and you might have an idea why people think Prem players should be quick.

[shurlock]

Give it a week and you might have an idea why people think Prem players should be quick.

 

I've got no issue with that. We're desperately short of pace in places though I dont think every position has to be blessed with it, not least our central midfield which is a frequent criticism on here. Nor do I think we can play 4-4-2 with two wingers, another bit of wishful thinking on here.

Edited 13 August, 2012 by shurlock

[The9]

I've got no issue with that. We're desperately short of pace in places though I dont think every position has to be blessed with it, not least our central midfield which is a frequent criticism on here. Nor do I think we can play 4-4-2 with two wingers, another bit of wishful thinking on here.

 

I've never seen anyone claim we need quicker central midfielders on here. Wide midfielders, strikers and centre backs, yeah.

[SaintRobbie]

I think we'll be mid-table to be honest... if we buy a defence.

[Supersubpuckett]

crap lazy article that states the bleeding obvious - we consistently lose and NA may well get sacked

[The9]

I've never seen anyone claim we need quicker central midfielders on here. Wide midfielders, strikers and centre backs, yeah.

 

Though someone did just imply it...

[Neil]

"with considerable financial backing from Nicola Cortese and Markus Liebherr's estate."

 

I don't think much of the "considerable financial backing" has come from Cortese! I believe he just spends it!

[John B]

I think this is quite an interesting thread but could someone suggest what type of players are required in a 4 3 3 formation because we tried and failed with in under that Dutch chap.

 

Do we needed Stevie Williams and Oxo type players which we dont seem to have

[Itchen_block4]

Don't think the 433 is being enforced from anywhere. It's quite simple that we need the extra man in the middle to compete in/dominate games. Any moron can tell you that.

 

The plan to have all of our teams playing the same way to streamline player progression was never a secret. We're just doing it to the first team now because we've realised that momentum alone won't move us forward and some fairly serious change was needed.

[John B]

Don't think the 433 is being enforced from anywhere. It's quite simple that we need the extra man in the middle to compete in/dominate games. Any moron can tell you that.

 

The plan to have all of our teams playing the same way to streamline player progression was never a secret. We're just doing it to the first team now because we've realised that momentum alone won't move us forward and some fairly serious change was needed.

 

Thats ridiculous

 

If you dont have the players how can you play 4 3 3 well?

[derry]

Come on- you would still be calling out for pace either way. What's your preference: 4-4-2 with two pacy wide men?

 

The need is to have no slowish players, important is acceleration and sharpness, Pace in the right places is necessary. I don't care what system is used but it must suit the players.

[Clifford Nelson]

The need is to have no slowish players, important is acceleration and sharpness, Pace in the right places is necessary. I don't care what system is used but it must suit the players.

 

There is somebody in the forum who got a div 4 Meon valley team play 4-2-3-1 by saying it was 4-4-2. That is probably as far flexibility as one could want, Dave. I'd be flabbergasted if we haven't got the players to play some of the 4-3-3 varieties and therefore be forced to play 4-4-2. I believe that the big issue isn't that, but the notion of not playing a pair of strikers. It's the Dave Merrington analysis of football, which always suggests a solution of "send on another striker". If we are to make an impact in the PL we must be flexible and forward looking, and sticking to th tried and trusted just isn't going to cut it.

[Saint Charlie]

Didn't think there was anything overly bad in the blog, but Blackmore knows what NC is like, and we didn't need stuff like that written, most speculative, before we have even kicked a ball in the Prem...

[shurlock]

NA is known for complicating things- has always spoken of the need to have multiple formations to the point where he has frequently chopped and changed during games - sometimes to the confusion of the players. In short, NA has got a track record.

Fat Adam seems to be getting carried away, jumping from the fact that NC is responsible for transfers (most chairmen's prerogative) and concluding everything therefore is laid down from above. Or maybe he's so starved for stories that he's having to read between the lines -and the ones in question are pretty innocuous.

If Nic wasn't such a tolerant, thick-skinned chap, I'd say Fat Adam might be looking at a ban

 

Thought so....

[doddisalegend]

Wonder how long before members of saints web get tracked down and banned from SMS

[Hopkins]

I'm sure he won't mind seeing as he constantly moaned about NA saying the same stuff in every interview.

[up and away]

Originally Posted by SuperSAINT

 

Didn't know this..

 

Adam Blackmore ‏@bigadamsport

@adkinsisourking I am commentating with Dave on Saturday - currently banned from speaking to NA, by NC - trying to resolve it amicably

 

It's reassuring to see this although I don't believe for a minute Adam is being mischievous, he is just not in confidence with either Cortese or Adkins and some of the things going on has left him scratching his head. One of the most courteous presenters I have met and little political agenda in most ways he goes about his work.

 

Cortese has big issues with his nerves to the extent his wife wants him out of the house as soon as possible on a matchday. Now if it is upsetting your wife / family to that extent, just imagine what this will do to Adkins. I can easily imagine Cortese will have said things in the heat of the moment that he regrets but just as with his wife, I don't believe he is looking for a divorce.

 

In taking this action against Adam he is trying to protect his relationship with Adkins. He does not want Adkins to believe that there is more to this and create a gulf between the two of them. Something I believe that developed between Pardew and Cortese for partly the same reasons, never to be repaired. Without a doubt this is a fault in Cortese and he deals with it the best he can. The strain exerted by the run in to last season, I imagine escalated this to unprecedented levels. Hence Adkins found it difficult to understand fully and handle the emotions after finally securing promotion.

 

I believe that Cortese would give Adkins another chance next season if he believed Adkins was not damaged goods and capable of getting out of the NPC again. When Cortese increased Adkins contract to 5+ years just a few months after his appointment, I am not sure if we were even in the top 6 at the time. But Cortese recognised this was the relationship he was looking for even at that early stage and backed his man. I am sure there has been the odd disagreement between Cortese and Adkins (nothing like with Pardew) but Adkins has been 100% behind the direction from the top and carried this out well. If we fail It will be the responsibility of both Cortese and Adkins in that coming about, something I would fully expect him to eventually own up to. Then make the choice which is best for the club as he felt he did when retaining Pardew following his direct disobedience over cup games.

 

I don't see a trace of the misgivings Adkins had at the end of last season, so I would imagine they have a better understanding of the problem. With Adkins being such a rational guy and not known for going up in smoke very minute, we stand a chance of it all working out.

[Frank's cousin]

It's reassuring to see this although I don't believe for a minute Adam is being mischievous, he is just not in confidence with either Cortese or Adkins and some of the things going on has left him scratching his head. One of the most courteous presenters I have met and little political agenda in most ways he goes about his work.

 

Cortese has big issues with his nerves to the extent his wife wants him out of the house as soon as possible on a matchday. Now if it is upsetting your wife / family to that extent, just imagine what this will do to Adkins. I can easily imagine Cortese will have said things in the heat of the moment that he regrets but just as with his wife, I don't believe he is looking for a divorce.

 

In taking this action against Adam he is trying to protect his relationship with Adkins. He does not want Adkins to believe that there is more to this and create a gulf between the two of them. Something I believe that developed between Pardew and Cortese for partly the same reasons, never to be repaired. Without a doubt this is a fault in Cortese and he deals with it the best he can. The strain exerted by the run in to last season, I imagine escalated this to unprecedented levels. Hence Adkins found it difficult to understand fully and handle the emotions after finally securing promotion.

 

I believe that Cortese would give Adkins another chance next season if he believed Adkins was not damaged goods and capable of getting out of the NPC again. When Cortese increased Adkins contract to 5+ years just a few months after his appointment, I am not sure if we were even in the top 6 at the time. But Cortese recognised this was the relationship he was looking for even at that early stage and backed his man. I am sure there has been the odd disagreement between Cortese and Adkins (nothing like with Pardew) but Adkins has been 100% behind the direction from the top and carried this out well. If we fail It will be the responsibility of both Cortese and Adkins in that coming about, something I would fully expect him to eventually own up to. Then make the choice which is best for the club as he felt he did when retaining Pardew following his direct disobedience over cup games.

 

I don't see a trace of the misgivings Adkins had at the end of last season, so I would imagine they have a better understanding of the problem. With Adkins being such a rational guy and not known for going up in smoke very minute, we stand a chance of it all working out.

 

Great post - and thanks for that. I also think that NC probably struggles a little with the media demands in this country - having been used to Switzerland where business is private, having every rumour, gossip, speculation placed under teh microspcoe and then when no answes are given have BS printed anyway is probably not good for his nerves either.

 

The impression i got form Nige post promotion interview waqss firstly a huge sense of relief that the tension of the run in was over - it was in his tone - and I dare say that NC and NA would have had their ups and downs and possibly to straining point as that pressure built - both are still learning afterall and both had not been in that pressure cooker before. I think they have a strong rleationship and both want the smae thing - I believe that NA WILL be able to achieve what NC wants - but I HOPE that NA willl be abe to achieve what NC wants within NCs timescale - for me that is the key to NA staying long term - and probably what caused a few 'moments' last season - had we done what we all mostly expected and been mid table, there would have been no problem ... but having gotten into such a good position it changed the goal posts - and that added to teh pressure - would Adkins who had not been in that situation before and his players have the ability to see it through?

 

Now we have a different pressure - seems like NC is putting cash up and NA will again have to learn quickly and respond and delivery on this years target - He dleivers he stays, failure, well se, but ultimately if his role this year is to keep us up, maybe get us to 12-14 etc as a target and the money is provided to make that a realistic ambition, then you could argue that if its not achieved, then we may need someone new?

 

Thats what its like in most jobs afterall.

 

I believe they have a huge amount of respect for each other and I also feel that they seem very much aligned in teh approach and style of play we want to see - will be challenges yes, but I think they work well together and are not affraid to show their emotions which can be a good if scary thing.

[Charlie Wayman]

there is no way Adkins would stick around if he was being forced to play a certain formation. no one can deny we need to adopt a new formation alternative to combat being overrun in midfield. current 4-4-2 and diamond version doesn't do that.

 

Of course you are right. Formations were changed in every match last year especially when "we could not get hold of the football" and the diamond formation was refularly introduced to regain control. I didn't see Adders on the dog-and bone to the man upstairs to get his next set of instructions. I'm sure he feels as no doubt everyone in football realises these days that flexibilty and adaptability are the keys to winning games especially when all teams are more or less equal in talent. Adding in the 4-3-3 tactic isn't something you can do by just putting shirts in different positions at half-time, the guys need practice and more practice to perfect the technique.

 

Is it asking too much of young kids to school them in about three or four different formations instead of one or two and expecting them to think and play differently at a stroke when perhaps they are already losing and down in the mouth? Maybe, but we'll see. Some will cope some may not and it is not unlikely that individual intelligence will have more than a little to do with that.

 

One thing Cortese most definitely is not is mad. No way is he likely to tell Adders how to run his army in the battlefield on a match-to-match and minute-to-minute basis, not even Montgomery was that stupid. He just wants to ensure that Adders has all the necessary tools at his disposal for complete flexibility and mastery of his art. If it proves he can't use those tools wisely then he'll be out the door or window or emergency exit and deservedly so.

 

Nor is there any evidence of the so-called "distancing" and why would there be, if Adders really feels it is already time to put "distance" between himself and Cortese then he might as well bugger off now.

 

My own fancy is that Saints will do quite well this season and hover mid-table most of the year and none of Mr Blackmore's concerns will be remembered after September.

[hypochondriac]

Perhaps more relevant after todays game

[thorpie the sinner]

Adders will get it right, end of imo!! Hope NC doesn't get restless too early!

[hypochondriac]

Adders will get it right, end of imo!! Hope NC doesn't get restless too early!

 

I was referring more to our formation

[Frank's cousin]

... last week he is 'spot on' this week his survival is back on the agenda... no forgive me, but if we expect the owner/chairman to look for stabilty and long term etc, why is it that fans cant view it the same way? Why is he great one week and for the chop the next? Just odd really