Is It The Southampton Way or the highway For Nigel Adkins?

[Clifford Nelson]

Why should the abandoning of 4-4-2 have to be an order from above or be viewed as some kind of betrayal of some ancient pinciples? Everybody needs to be aware that basic formations have evolved over the last 100 years. You ould equally think that 4-4-2 betrayed 4-2-4, which in turned betrayed WM, etc. The modern world of top football plays variations of 4-3-3. Blackore's idea that we are copying it from Barca is both ill informed and disregards reality.

 

4-4-2 is still predominantly played in L1 nd 2 and in the CCC, because they aren't mainly managed by forward looking and successful managers. Instead they are plowing on with an eye in the past. Players we recruit from those leagues will therefore be used to that way of playing. But we are recruiting them because we think that they will be good enough for the PL. If they are they will also be good enough to play progressiv football, like they do a lot in the PL.

 

We are not in the lower divisions anymore, so let's not play as if we were. NA seems forward looking enough for me to learn from and play like the best, so why would he have to be told by the Chairman? Can we start moing into the 21st century now?

[Raging Bull]

Sadly, I believe NC already has his sights (& possibly 1 particular person) set on a new manager, probably a foreign manager whose spent the last 10 years playing this style. I feel for NA, the blokes probably not enjoying things right now.

 

Perversly we already play some good attacking stuff anyway so this could just be 1 big drama for all the queens to sink their teeth into.

[Frank's cousin]

I think we need to take a reality check to, but not in a negative way - Its been made clear that the way the club wants to build is through a youth conveyorbelt - like most clubs that take such a route, it doen not mean you get year on year success - but have cyclic success as and when a crp come through of high enough calibre to make an impact - Akjax probably teh best example, have a couple of good seaosn and tehn the best are bought and they have a mini slump again.

 

Now for us we are proabbly still 4-5 years away from being in a position where in theory, we might be able to do something with the kids - we have some good uns now, but very green and we are entering a league where many clubs culture is that of 'we must stay up whatever cost' and that fear drives style, tactics and transfers. We have stated we dont want to do that - either because we are naive about what we are upgainst ( which is the veiw of some in the media, and also some of our fans), or because we are on a plan and if there are blips and we dont survive, then we try again until we succeed.

 

Personnally, I am in teh second bucket - we do it our way and see what happens knowing full well at times its not going to be pretty. I suspect for Nige the fact we gained back to back promotions, so quickly and are 2 years ahead of the 5 year plan probably, adds huge pressure - if we had had 2 extra seasons bedding in some younger players, we might be a bit closer to playing our way well when up against top quality. Will he still be here if we are bottom at Christmas? Guess we cant have it both ways - if we admire the investment, drive and aspiration /ambition of NC, do we take it all, except when sentiment is not enough to give Nige a chance to learn and devlop as well?

 

Interesting conundrum. Personnaly i hope NIge gets a couple of seaons from now and then we see where we are - I think he has demonstrated he has the potential to be excellent and deserves a chnace o see what he can do when teh likes of Shaw, Ward prouse etc start to make the grade consistently.

 

The only other issue, is whether he is considered a big enough draw to attract some of the targets we are after, to convince that we are serious about the ambition...which when we keep buying younger players, suggests we might not be as the investment is longer term... and most want big wages and success today, not tomorrow.

 

Pr-season is the opportinity to try new things and bed in new players - have we got the combination right yet? NO, and yes we will need to get it right soon, but I odnt think we have seen the best of this side yet by a long way and that is why I am still pretty optimistic that we will surprise a few peopleonce teh serious games get going.

 

COYRs

[Itchen_block4]

Not sure where Blackmore gets the Barcelona comparison from. We have an academy that develops players technically good enough for the first team and that's about as far as the comparison stretches. I don't know how he rigidly defines 433 as 'Barcelona stye'. Fat Sam does not play Barcelona style. It is a 433 though and at times last season it was a very effective one. Udinese weren't Barca style either, but it was still a remarkably clinical, counter attacking 433.

[Frank's cousin]

How about a nice 4-2-3-1 like the Germans? Just to confuse things even further;)

[The9]

I love Lambert and he's been fantastic for us since the day he joined. But I agree - I just dont think he fits in the lone role. He's all about knock downs and bringing the ball down and bringing others into play. The other striker generally pulls defenders around and then gives him more time to be able to pick a pass out wide, or through to the other forward, or a midfield runner. If he's on his own he'll struggle and like you say, he's not hugely mobile.

 

Well I'm glad at least one person understands what I'm getting at ! One of Sharp's most useful traits was the way he made runs to drag defenders away from Lambert - difficult to see how he's going to be able to do that if he's on the bench or 15 yards back towards his own goal.

 

Though something has just occurred to me - we've been talking about Lambert dropping deep (maybe as a false nine) and pulling into midfield to link play, who's to say that our wide strikers/midfielders haven't been told not to make the runs forward in the friendlies so we don't give away our pattern of play - everyone "knows we're a one man team" (lol) so having Lambert come deep, pull defenders with him and pushing pacier players into the space he creates could be what we're aiming for.

 

Why give it away pre-season, they could still be working on it 5 days a week in training ?

[Saint_clark]

Sadly, I believe NC already has his sights (& possibly 1 particular person) set on a new manager, probably a foreign manager whose spent the last 10 years playing this style. I feel for NA, the blokes probably not enjoying things right now.

 

Perversly we already play some good attacking stuff anyway so this could just be 1 big drama for all the queens to sink their teeth into.

 

 

Really? I think he's having the time of his life. His career has never seen heights like this season.

[The9]

How about a nice 4-2-3-1 like the Germans? Just to confuse things even further;)

 

We're calling it 4-5-1 for the sake of argument here, though with 2 defensive midfielders in a 4-4-2 (or 4-4-1-1) the only difference to 4-2-3-1 is how deep the second striker sits anyway.

 

It's just nuances of positioning, the days of rigid lines are long over. Hell, I managed to get a Meon Valley Div 4 team to play 4-2-3-1 just by telling them it was 4-4-2, so as not to freak them out.

[notnowcato]

Thats exactly what he's suggesting. I have a lot of time for Adam Blackmore.

 

Surely not based on his blog?

[The9]

Not sure where Blackmore gets the Barcelona comparison from. We have an academy that develops players technically good enough for the first team and that's about as far as the comparison stretches. I don't know how he rigidly defines 433 as 'Barcelona stye'. Fat Sam does not play Barcelona style. It is a 433 though and at times last season it was a very effective one. Udinese weren't Barca style either, but it was still a remarkably clinical, counter attacking 433.

 

Barcelona have played numerous games with 3 at the back using defensive midfielders in defence as well, not something we've done that I can remember...

[trousers]

Gary Neville ‏@OfficialGN2 I have a strong feeling Southampton will stay up this year. #goodteam

[The9]

Gary Neville ‏@OfficialGN2 I have a strong feeling Southampton will stay up this year. #goodteam

 

How would he know, I didn't see him at St Mary's and we've been crap on telly...?

[Saints foreva]

Gary Neville ‏@OfficialGN2 I have a strong feeling Southampton will stay up this year. #goodteam

 

That is a fake account, Gary Neville's real Twitter is @GNev2.

[Turkish]

Pass me that glass mate, I'll top it up. Looks half-empty.

 

Not at all mate. UNlike a lot of people on here some of us are not confusing ambition with ability. People keep going on about aiming for the stars and applauding Cortese ambition and drive, yet this might well prove to be our undoing. A man who has achieved successive promotions and taken a team into the premier league less than 2 years after being near the bottom of league one and got them there 2 years ahead of schedule should be lauded by the clubs owners, instead of that we are in a situation where he has been verbally sacked at least once in the last year and appears worried about his job, if rumours and stories from inside the club are true.

 

We've got the chairman and manager telling players we are going to be in Europe and challenging Man City in 3 years time, yet the activity in the transfer markets suggests that they are either just words or an unrealistic expectation of the sort of players and fees they will cost to get anywhere near that sort of level. Whilst the other promoted clubs are talking about staying up, our management are going on about Europe, does anyone really think given what we know about Cortese that he'll accept a battle against relegation this season? If we are struggling Adkins will be gone and a new man brought in and no doubt will be given the same remit and the same scenario if we dont reach Corteses standards, we've all seen in the past what happens when clubs chop and change managers.

 

I honestly think this club has a very bright future if people are reined in a little and ambition matches ability. Saying we are aiming to challenge Man City is utterly stupid when we are buying players from the championship, however good they potentially might be. I sincerely hope that Cortese isn't expecting anything other than a relegation battle this season but he is expecting more. We've seen him lose his rag with the manager when things are going well and we are overperforming and achieving targets ahead of schedule so god knows what he'll be like if we are struggling. We do stand on the verge of what could potentially be another golden era for the club, but we are also only a tantrum away from throwing it all away.

[Noodles34]

Not at all mate. UNlike a lot of people on here some of us are not confusing ambition with ability. People keep going on about aiming for the stars and applauding Cortese ambition and drive, yet this might well prove to be our undoing. A man who has achieved successive promotions and taken a team into the premier league less than 2 years after being near the bottom of league one and got them there 2 years ahead of schedule should be lauded by the clubs owners, instead of that we are in a situation where he has been verbally sacked at least once in the last year and appears worried about his job, if rumours and stories from inside the club are true.

 

We've got the chairman and manager telling players we are going to be in Europe and challenging Man City in 3 years time, yet the activity in the transfer markets suggests that they are either just words or an unrealistic expectation of the sort of players and fees they will cost to get anywhere near that sort of level. Whilst the other promoted clubs are talking about staying up, our management are going on about Europe, does anyone really think given what we know about Cortese that he'll accept a battle against relegation this season? If we are struggling Adkins will be gone and a new man brought in and no doubt will be given the same remit and the same scenario if we dont reach Corteses standards, we've all seen in the past what happens when clubs chop and change managers.

 

I honestly think this club has a very bright future if people are reined in a little and ambition matches ability. Saying we are aiming to challenge Man City is utterly stupid when we are buying players from the championship, however good they potentially might be. I sincerely hope that Cortese isn't expecting anything other than a relegation battle this season but he is expecting more. We've seen him lose his rag with the manager when things are going well and we are overperforming and achieving targets ahead of schedule so god knows what he'll be like if we are struggling. We do stand on the verge of what could potentially be another golden era for the club, but we are also only a tantrum away from throwing it all away.

 

thats a good and considered post. But i think Cortese wants to do it the Barca way, thats why we are buying the better and younger Champoinship players rather than the likes of Ukubu etc. and thank f uck for that. He is obsessed with doing it the Southampton Way and so wont be buying multi million pound players, just like Barca dont (much). Whether it will happen and whether NA will be around long is a completely different subject, though clearly, chopping and changing managers doesnt work, unless you spend mega money ala Chelsea and City

[Raging Bull]

Really? I think he's having the time of his life. His career has never seen heights like this season.

 

Should have been more specific. Yes I'm sure he's loving the prospect but in fear of it not lasting very long.

[Thedelldays]

thats a good and considered post. But i think Cortese wants to do it the Barca way, thats why we are buying the better and younger Champoinship players rather than the likes of Ukubu etc. and thank f uck for that. He is obsessed with doing it the Southampton Way and so wont be buying multi million pound players, just like Barca dont (much). Whether it will happen and whether NA will be around long is a completely different subject, though clearly, chopping and changing managers doesnt work, unless you spend mega money ala Chelsea and City

 

If a club like saints try and do it the barca way. We will go down. End of story really

[Turkish]

thats a good and considered post. But i think Cortese wants to do it the Barca way, thats why we are buying the better and younger Champoinship players rather than the likes of Ukubu etc. and thank f uck for that. He is obsessed with doing it the Southampton Way and so wont be buying multi million pound players, just like Barca dont (much). Whether it will happen and whether NA will be around long is a completely different subject, though clearly, chopping and changing managers doesnt work, unless you spend mega money ala Chelsea and City

 

That's the thing though, Barcelona do spend a lot of money as well. Alves, Fabregas, Sanchez, Maschareno and Villa cost well over £100m between them. yes they prodcue some great players from their academy, but they are complemented by top players who have been brought in for a fortune.

[Thedelldays]

I'm just glad all the moronic comments about Europe, how the prem is average etc has gone

 

Sooner this rubbish about being compared to Barcelona goes after a few heavy defeats, the better

[Turkish]

I'm just glad all the moronic comments about Europe, how the prem is average etc has gone

 

Sooner this rubbish about being compared to Barcelona goes after a few heavy defeats, the better

 

Agreed. All this sh*t a few months back about is this the best Saints team ever as well. It's not even the best Saints team of the last 10 years FFS.

[Thedelldays]

Agreed. All this sh*t a few months back about is this the best Saints team ever as well. It's not even the best Saints team of the last 10 years FFS.

 

Yep.

I'm looking forward to this season. But I have never been deluded in thinking the premier leave is rubbish or "average" and that we are going to get into Europe anytime soon.

 

That is probably why I am not throwing a wobbly about how bad we have been in pre season or how we are now all of a sudden going to struggle

 

If we finish 17th, we would have done well.

 

The same people now getting all panicky were saying how QPR showed how not to do it... Yet want saints to buy as many, if not more players

Edited 13 August, 2012 by Thedelldays

[Noodles34]

Agreed. All this sh*t a few months back about is this the best Saints team ever as well. It's not even the best Saints team of the last 10 years FFS.

 

tbf, it hasnt had the chance to prove or disprove that yet.

 

Clearly Strachan's 2003 team was the best, it played in the PL, this team hasn't yet.

However, this team is the most successful saints team ever

[Thedelldays]

tbf, it hasnt had the chance to prove or disprove that yet.

 

Clearly Strachan's 2003 team was the best, it played in the PL, this team hasn't yet.

However, this team is the most successful saints team ever

 

Ever meaning, the last 9 years?

[Turkish]

tbf, it hasnt had the chance to prove or disprove that yet.

 

Clearly Strachan's 2003 team was the best, it played in the PL, this team hasn't yet.

However, this team is the most successful saints team ever

 

I think the 1984 team might disagree with you.

[Noodles34]

I think the 1984 team might disagree with you.

 

you said the last 10 years

[Noodles34]

Ever meaning, the last 9 years?

 

c'mon, if you take this as the same team since admin, then JPT, 2 promotions in 3 years, dunno, its relative to how people gauge achievements in relative divs. 2nd in the old div1, couple of fa cup semis against what this current team have done, pretty subjective really.

[Thedelldays]

c'mon, if you take this as the same team since admin, then JPT, 2 promotions in 3 years, dunno, its relative to how people gauge achievements in relative divs. 2nd in the old div1, couple of fa cup semis against what this current team have done, pretty subjective really.

 

Well, last season was very good. Granted

But league 1. When we blew teams away in the transfer market. 2nd was standard at least

[Turkish]

you said the last 10 years

 

You said ever, so you meant last 10 years. In that case i'd agree that in terms of success and enjoyment it's been the best in the last 10 years. although the 2003 team was better.

[doddisalegend]

Agreed. All this sh*t a few months back about is this the best Saints team ever as well. It's not even the best Saints team of the last 10 years FFS.

 

No but it has been one of the most enjoyable teams I've watched. I blame all the noises coming from the club on the back of the last few seasons feel good factor which has left a section of the fan base getting all wet at the thought of saints hammering european teams in the CL in front of 60,000 capicity crowd at the new super duper SMS.....

Edited 13 August, 2012 by doddisalegend

[Lord Duckhunter]

I don't believe for one minute that NC or Read or whoever this hack is hinting at picks the formation. There is nothing wrong with all teams playing the same way.

 

The blog seems to imply that a rollocking will be give to Adkins if he changes tactics. I dont believe any manager will put up with that and certainly not one whose stock is as high as his is at present. He wont walk into a Premier League job, but he would be in prime postion for any Championship post. A Championship post which could lead to the Premiership in a years time, and without the interference implied by Blackmore, would be very appealing.

 

I think most people realise that NC is a tough guy to please, that any blip on our way to where he wants to go and heads will roll and that Adkins will be under pressure from day 1 next season. But this hack has taken that and exaggerated it to fit his agenda. I know from my mate in the local press that there is real animosity towards NC with the local boys, and Adkins is considered " akward". Like most stories this has some truth in it, but it's nowhere near as bad as is being made out.

 

If NC wants our sides to play attractive , movement based, skillful football, with 5 or 6 coming up through the ranks, that is surely a good thing. Quite obviously we will never be Barca or Arsenal but why people feel the need to take the p iss about wanting to be the best you can and setting your sights as high as possible, I dont know.

[The9]

Yep.

I'm looking forward to this season. But I have never been deluded in thinking the premier leave is rubbish or "average" and that we are going to get into Europe anytime soon.

 

That is probably why I am not throwing a wobbly about how bad we have been in pre season or how we are now all of a sudden going to struggle

 

If we finish 17th, we would have done well.

 

The same people now getting all panicky were saying how QPR showed how not to do it... Yet want saints to buy as many, if not more players

 

Why do you always say it's "the same people" ? It's never the same people, it's always different people at different times. Also, the point about QPR is not about quantity, it's about both quality and the type of player they bought - i.e. short termist mercenaries like Cisse, thugs like Barton.

[Thedelldays]

Give you Barton

But Why is cisse a mercenary ?

[The9]

c'mon, if you take this as the same team since admin, then JPT, 2 promotions in 3 years, dunno, its relative to how people gauge achievements in relative divs. 2nd in the old div1, couple of fa cup semis against what this current team have done, pretty subjective really.

 

Yeah, it's the best team since we missed out on the Championship playoffs, that's for sure.

 

It might even be better than one or two of the struggling sides from the late 90s, we shall see. But I think player for player, our best XI from the Prem relegation season is better than our best XI at the moment. The problem in the relegation season being that we hardly ever got to pick the best XI, and had a manager who didn't give a crap.

Edited 13 August, 2012 by The9

[The9]

Give you Barton

But Why is cisse a mercenary ?

 

5 clubs in under 4 seasons since the start of 2009 ? I'm pretty sure he didn't go to Sunderland for the weather either.

[Thedelldays]

5 clubs in under 4 seasons since the start of 2009 ? I'm pretty sure he didn't go to Sunderland for the weather either.

 

If they stay up. Job done. An they did

[The9]

If they stay up. Job done. An they did

 

Yeah, and that's fair enough if that's the route they want to go - but didn't you just have a go at people for saying "QPR showed how not to do it" three posts ago ?

[Turkish]

I don't believe for one minute that NC or Read or whoever this hack is hinting at picks the formation. There is nothing wrong with all teams playing the same way.

 

The blog seems to imply that a rollocking will be give to Adkins if he changes tactics. I dont believe any manager will put up with that and certainly not one whose stock is as high as his is at present. He wont walk into a Premier League job, but he would be in prime postion for any Championship post. A Championship post which could lead to the Premiership in a years time, and without the interference implied by Blackmore, would be very appealing.

 

I think most people realise that NC is a tough guy to please, that any blip on our way to where he wants to go and heads will roll and that Adkins will be under pressure from day 1 next season. But this hack has taken that and exaggerated it to fit his agenda. I know from my mate in the local press that there is real animosity towards NC with the local boys, and Adkins is considered " akward". Like most stories this has some truth in it, but it's nowhere near as bad as is being made out.

 

If NC wants our sides to play attractive , movement based, skillful football, with 5 or 6 coming up through the ranks, that is surely a good thing. Quite obviously we will never be Barca or Arsenal but why people feel the need to take the p iss about wanting to be the best you can and setting your sights as high as possible, I dont know

 

Because it's embarassing. Seriously, if it wasn't us and say, Reading were going on about challenging Man City in 3 years time what would you say? I know when Blackburn were going on about it this time last year i thought they were mental. Most of our squad have never played above championship level before, we are signing players from the championship. The other two promoted sides seem to realise this season the most important thing is staying up. Lets not try and run before we can walk. It's all very well having ambition but you also have to be realistic.

[Thedelldays]

Yeah, and that's fair enough if that's the route they want to go - but didn't you just have a go at people for saying "QPR showed how not to do it" three posts ago ?

 

No, I said that that those who were saying QPR were showing us how not to do it seem to want wholesale changes to our team.

 

Personally, I would love cisse, hoillet, park at saints

[Bearsy]

Because it's embarassing. Seriously, if it wasn't us and say, Reading were going on about challenging Man City in 3 years time what would you say?

 

It ain't the club's public position though is it, I mean that we're gonna be a Champions League superpower? I thought it was just guff they was blowing up the asses of potential players to con them into signing?

[The9]

No, I said that that those who were saying QPR were showing us how not to do it seem to want wholesale changes to our team.

 

Personally, I would love cisse, hoillet, park at saints

 

Thanks for clarifying. You've mixed two transfer windows there though, Cisse was a mercenary-emergency type signing, Hoilett and Park two "established Prem club stepping up" signings. I'm not sure why we're not in for the latter two players either.

[The9]

It ain't the club's public position though is it, I mean that we're gonna be a Champions League superpower? I thought it was just guff they was blowing up the asses of potential players to con them into signing?

 

Probably best not do a tv interview in that case then though.

[Turkish]

Thanks for clarifying. You've mixed two transfer windows there though, Cisse was a mercenary-emergency type signing, Hoilett and Park two "established Prem club stepping up" signings. I'm not sure why we're not in for the latter two players either.

 

Something about the Southampton Way.

[The9]

Something about the Southampton Way.

 

Funny that, I'm reading Theo Walcott's book at the mo, and he talks excessively about the Arsenal Way. Can't help but think he's seen both sides of it.

[Frank's cousin]

I don't believe for one minute that NC or Read or whoever this hack is hinting at picks the formation. There is nothing wrong with all teams playing the same way.

 

The blog seems to imply that a rollocking will be give to Adkins if he changes tactics. I dont believe any manager will put up with that and certainly not one whose stock is as high as his is at present. He wont walk into a Premier League job, but he would be in prime postion for any Championship post. A Championship post which could lead to the Premiership in a years time, and without the interference implied by Blackmore, would be very appealing.

 

I think most people realise that NC is a tough guy to please, that any blip on our way to where he wants to go and heads will roll and that Adkins will be under pressure from day 1 next season. But this hack has taken that and exaggerated it to fit his agenda. I know from my mate in the local press that there is real animosity towards NC with the local boys, and Adkins is considered " akward". Like most stories this has some truth in it, but it's nowhere near as bad as is being made out.

 

If NC wants our sides to play attractive , movement based, skillful football, with 5 or 6 coming up through the ranks, that is surely a good thing. Quite obviously we will never be Barca or Arsenal but why people feel the need to take the p iss about wanting to be the best you can and setting your sights as high as possible, I dont know

 

Because it's embarassing. Seriously, if it wasn't us and say, Reading were going on about challenging Man City in 3 years time what would you say? I know when Blackburn were going on about it this time last year i thought they were mental. Most of our squad have never played above championship level before, we are signing players from the championship. The other two promoted sides seem to realise this season the most important thing is staying up. Lets not try and run before we can walk. It's all very well having ambition but you also have to be realistic.

 

You say it embarrassing Turkish, but I think many have misinterpreted what is meant by 'Saints being a Barcelona' - Lets put this into some sort of perspective. NC is not saying we will be as BIG as Barcelona or Man City, that would indeed be laughable as we simply do not have the national, let alone global brand that is required for that and will never do so. I belive the implication of those grand statements is to follow the philosophy of thsoe clubs that have achieved their success on teh back of quality youth development and a continuum between each level of the academy - now even with tier one status we will be competing with bigger more attractive clubs for quality kids, but our 'history' not necessarily in numbers but in 'hype' and profile of recent academy graduates, will help on that front.

 

The only reason for doing it that way is precisly beacsue we dont have the money to buy the finished article.... but the model has worked at clubs liek Barca and perhaps even more at Ajax. Clubs in other leagues have seen success through it - Beyer Leverkusen, is the one that springs most to mind with a CL final on a 20K gate (before the stadium upgrade for WC2006) - having a crop come through that was able to challenge domestically and in Europe - yes, many got sold afterwards as the players looked to cash in on tehir new profiles and status, but its such cyclic success that smaller clubs can have if the set up is right that NC is talking about.

 

My concern is not with the principle or worrying about being laughed at by those too daft to see what NC is really about, but whether the success seen by these smaller continental clubs based on the youth model can actually be sustained in the EPL - because culturally our players seem more driven by agents and possibly greed to leave at a 15/16 if a big club comes calling rather than 21-23 (at the end of their first pro contracts) that we see more of in Germany etc. That for me is the biggest issue - how do you create an environment/culture that keeps the talent at the club to a point when we have at least gotten sometthing out of them and not just cash.

 

If NC is serious about the model, he msut surely realise it does not happen overnight - He must also recognise that continuity is key to such a strategy - yes he may react emotionally from time to time, comes with passion and determination, but the key is resolution to any toys out pram moments and so far NA is still here despite the gossip - I think if NC gets rid of Adkins due to a poor start or even relegation, it will be a mistake, but I am not sure how much of my opinion is swayed by my like for Adkins and bias as I believe he CAN become a top top manager - the challenge is whether he can get there within NCs timeframe.... and liek all these things, how we react will be almost entirley based on who was brought in and what record they had... big name experienced EU manager, who attracted players and got us off to a fyer and the fickle nature of fans is such that 'Nige, thanks for all you have done..goodbye' - if he did a Lowe and replaced with the groundsman's sister's boyfriend form Div 3 and we know the reaction.

[Turkish]

You say it embarrassing Turkish, but I think many have misinterpreted what is meant by 'Saints being a Barcelona' - Lets put this into some sort of perspective. NC is not saying we will be as BIG as Barcelona or Man City, that would indeed be laughable as we simply do not have the national, let alone global brand that is required for that and will never do so. I belive the implication of those grand statements is to follow the philosophy of thsoe clubs that have achieved their success on teh back of quality youth development and a continuum between each level of the academy - now even with tier one status we will be competing with bigger more attractive clubs for quality kids, but our 'history' not necessarily in numbers but in 'hype' and profile of recent academy graduates, will help on that front.

 

The only reason for doing it that way is precisly beacsue we dont have the money to buy the finished article.... but the model has worked at clubs liek Barca and perhaps even more at Ajax. Clubs in other leagues have seen success through it - Beyer Leverkusen, is the one that springs most to mind with a CL final on a 20K gate (before the stadium upgrade for WC2006) - having a crop come through that was able to challenge domestically and in Europe - yes, many got sold afterwards as the players looked to cash in on tehir new profiles and status, but its such cyclic success that smaller clubs can have if the set up is right that NC is talking about.

 

My concern is not with the principle or worrying about being laughed at by those too daft to see what NC is really about, but whether the success seen by these smaller continental clubs based on the youth model can actually be sustained in the EPL - because culturally our players seem more driven by agents and possibly greed to leave at a 15/16 if a big club comes calling rather than 21-23 (at the end of their first pro contracts) that we see more of in Germany etc. That for me is the biggest issue - how do you create an environment/culture that keeps the talent at the club to a point when we have at least gotten sometthing out of them and not just cash.

 

If NC is serious about the model, he msut surely realise it does not happen overnight - He must also recognise that continuity is key to such a strategy - yes he may react emotionally from time to time, comes with passion and determination, but the key is resolution to any toys out pram moments and so far NA is still here despite the gossip - I think if NC gets rid of Adkins due to a poor start or even relegation, it will be a mistake, but I am not sure how much of my opinion is swayed by my like for Adkins and bias as I believe he CAN become a top top manager - the challenge is whether he can get there within NCs timeframe.... and liek all these things, how we react will be almost entirley based on who was brought in and what record they had... big name experienced EU manager, who attracted players and got us off to a fyer and the fickle nature of fans is such that 'Nige, thanks for all you have done..goodbye' - if he did a Lowe and replaced with the groundsman's sister's boyfriend form Div 3 and we know the reaction.

 

I dont know why people are maintaining that Barcelona dont spend money and dont buy established players. Mascerano, Villa, Alves, Fabregas and Sanchez to name a few were all esablished players who cost at least £20m each, lets get that out of the way first. Barcelona do spend and they do spend big when they need to. Much like the "you dont win anything with kids" Man U reference you like to use. That team of Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, Neville and Butt were complemented by experienced and expensive signings for that time.

 

That Man United team are the only one in the last 20 years to build a successful Premier league side with a high percentage coming from their academy. When Villa tried it by signing young English talent and building a team with Young, Milner, Barry, Downing and co they were all on their way once a bigger club knocked on the door. Even Arsenal cant hold onto their top players, why are Saints going to be able to when these clubs cant?

 

As for it being embarassing; well It is embarassing when on the one hand the chairman of a club just promoted is saying we are going to be challenging for the title and then signs players from the championship. Hardly backing up his talk with actions is he? If we were a supporter of any premier league club and a newly promoted side had done the same thing we'd think they were nuts. As a collegue put it when he read Corteses comments "has your chairman been on the crack?" If Reading had been telling everyone that would listen they were heading for the champions league and then signed the players they have what would everyone think? More walking the walk and less talking the talk from all involved at SFC i think.

[The9]

The only reason for doing it that way is precisly beacsue we dont have the money to buy the finished article....

 

Don't we ? So despite splashing the cash in L1 and Championship to buy players from the leagues above, when it gets to the Prem we're suddenly strapped for cash ? We only seem to be skint when it suits us, yet when there's someone we want in particular categories we're able to outbid people and pay more wages, etc.

 

We have a cash windfall coming no matter where we finish this season, so why are we suddenly unable to compete for even the kind of mid-table, experienced players who can get us to mid-table and help bring the inexperienced kids through ? It can only be desire on the part of the purse-string holder. But it's missing out the vital stage of staying up before we could push on.

[Turkish]

Don't we ? So despite splashing the cash in L1 and Championship to buy players from the leagues above, when it gets to the Prem we're suddenly strapped for cash ? We only seem to be skint when it suits us to claim that, when there's someone that suits we're able to outbid people and pay more wages, etc.

 

We have a cash windfall coming no matter where we finish this season, so why are we suddenly unable to compete for even the kind of mid-table, experienced players who can get us to mid-table and help bring the inexperienced kids through ?

 

Exactly. On the one hand Cortese has massive ambition and rescource when it suits, such as the chucking 20,000 seats onto the stadium on a whim and worry about how to pay for it later, yet now apparantly we cant afford to buy established top flight players.

[The9]

Exactly. On the one hand Cortese has massive ambition and rescource when it suits, such as the chucking 20,000 seats onto the stadium on a whim and worry about how to pay for it later, yet now apparantly we cant afford to buy established top flight players.

 

It is bloody weird. I'm still not exactly sure that there's not some in Markus' legacy that is responsible for this in some way - for access to the cash. For a while in 2011 I wondered the same, but Cork seemed to put paid to that. We haven't signed anyone to show a similar "step up" this time.

 

Then again, Adkins' history has always been about being successful with under 27s and maybe it's at his insistence.

[Faz]

We're calling it 4-5-1 for the sake of argument here, though with 2 defensive midfielders in a 4-4-2 (or 4-4-1-1) the only difference to 4-2-3-1 is how deep the second striker sits anyway.

 

It's just nuances of positioning, the days of rigid lines are long over. Hell, I managed to get a Meon Valley Div 4 team to play 4-2-3-1 just by telling them it was 4-4-2, so as not to freak them out.

 

"Gentlemen, England will be playing four, four ****ing two"

[The9]

"Gentlemen, England will be playing four, four ****ing two"

 

A Mike Bassett line which was a backlash against Hoddle's wing backs, so already beyond defunct even 10 years ago.