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Is It The Southampton Way or the highway For Nigel Adkins?


BILLY

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Good Blog from Adam Blackmore

 

http://bigadamsport.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/is-it-southampton-way-or-highway-for.html#!/2012/08/is-it-southampton-way-or-highway-for.html

 

Makes me feel a bit worried too to be honest. I haven't been to any of the pre-season games (don't think many have giving the crowds we have had) but it seems like we still have a long way to go before we are ready for this season in PL. Hope I am wrong.

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People need to face up to the reality that we are going to likely be in the bottom 3 or bottom 6 for most of this season, we may even go down and come back up. If the club's vision truly is to build from the academy then a)we need to keep players such as Shaw and JWP and Rodriguez and b)we are going to follow a similar model to West Brom over the next 3 or 4 years

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Is Blackmore suggesting Adkins is being pressured to play a certain way because that is what it seems to me. I am starting to feel a little uncomfortable and would rather we played in a way the players at least feel comfortable with.

 

Sounds like it to me, as he says what is the point of playing JRod on the wing? Or wasting RL talents on his own though the middle?

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Not sure where he gets the idea that the 4-3-3 formation is being forced upon him from above? In truth, a 4-4-2, with our current set of players, against some of the best teams in the world really does not bare thinking about. Total carnage. The change in formation is 100% down to us having to try and stop being completely overrun in the middle of the park, which having just 2 in there would undoubtedly do.

 

And if we are trying to learn to play a new formation, why on earth would we want to change it after 35 mins in a game where the result is completely irrelevant. Surely it would be better to just carry on "0-0 lads" and get it right for next weekend.

Edited by merrimd
cant spell
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People need to face up to the reality that we are going to likely be in the bottom 3 or bottom 6 for most of this season, we may even go down and come back up. If the club's vision truly is to build from the academy then a)we need to keep players such as Shaw and JWP and Rodriguez and b)we are going to follow a similar model to West Brom over the next 3 or 4 years

 

I think most of us expect it to be a tough season but we might us well be as fully prepared as we can be and make the most of the players we have and play them in their normal positions?

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IMO we have the players who can play the system (with a couple of additions still to be made to finalise it) - the pre season games we have lost have just been against better teams with better players - regardless of the formation.

 

I agree with Adkins that 4-3-3/4-5-1 is pretty much the way you have to go in the Prem or you get dominated in the midfield as other teams have the central three and will run around you.

 

The key for us IMO is the attacking wide positions. Puncheon is doing ok and linking well with Clyne on the right but the left is not working as JR doesn't suit the position and Fox can't get up and down in the same way Clyne does on the right.

 

If we had a bit more pace ( a Matt Phillips type player) then we could stretch the opposition defence.

 

NB; I know we have a defensive issue but thats personnel not system.

 

Also worth noting that the Udinese game was Blackmore's first of pre season. We were clearly beaten by a much better Champions League team, not because we played 4-3-3.

 

If he had seen us play well vs Ajax then he might feel a bit different.

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Good Blog from Adam Blackmore

 

http://bigadamsport.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/is-it-southampton-way-or-highway-for.html#!/2012/08/is-it-southampton-way-or-highway-for.html

 

Makes me feel a bit worried too to be honest. I haven't been to any of the pre-season games (don't think many have giving the crowds we have had) but it seems like we still have a long way to go before we are ready for this season in PL. Hope I am wrong.

Good article I thought and offers a pretty reasoned explanation for some of the things we've been questioning over pre-season.

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Be interested to hear whether THEVMAN has any details on the above. Adkins has done an amazing job for us, but I don't think the signings we've currently made fit the formation, plus very worried about CB.

 

All the signings fit the formation apart from JR. Can't help but feel that he is lined up to be the central striker (but Adkins can't really drop lambert yet because of his immense record for us which is totally fair).

 

Clyne is the RB who bombs on, Davis will fit into a few of the central midfield three and Gazza is an up and coming keeper.

 

We really need that wide player and as you say central defenders.

 

If we were to bring in a wide player, LB and CB then we would be looking good in the 4-3-3.

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Don't panic and carry on ffs!

 

We have had one bad beat - against a top champions league team - may I remind you all that we were League 1 only two season ago. We outplayed Ajax for 45min and that was their last pre-season friendly when they were at the end of theirs. We let in one goal against a team that beat Man UTD away in Europe, and that was a Jose "SIT" (shot in foot) Fonte Moment.

 

We comfortably beat Wolves so we can assume we are better than a **** premier team at any rate, and we played city of the park in the first 45 with our strongest 11. My main worry is that we don't seem to be able to score goals - with the exception of Puncheon and Sharpedo.

 

I still think we need a new CB because we don't have any cover (this is no disrespect to Danny S but we didn't see him last year so very hard to gauge his strengths at this time).

 

We are expected to get nil points from from Arsenal, Man UTD and City. So please can we not have pandemonium on here if that happens. Anything above that is honestly a bonus and I hope and believe that we can nick some points here and there.

 

As for the comments about a formation being forced upon us. Firstly, one quote that is missing from that article is nigel saying "i was awestruck by how well we played in the first 30min against Bristol" - does that sound like a manager who doesn't like the formation. He also points out and defends HIS stance on the new formation by detailing how no one like the diamond when he introduced it at first and states that this formation is just a new way to play and a new weapon in the armoury. He also adds that this is an addition to their existing repertoire not as a replacement. And in truth I believe him as he is using it to compete with the possession football of the top sides - i.e -Ajax, Arsenal, Anderlecht and sie Italianos.

 

We will be okay, it will be a struggle but I'm going to stick with my pre-season estimate of anywhere between 10-15th, have not seen anything to worry me yet and unless we lose 7-0 to city I won't change my mind.

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All the signings fit the formation apart from JR. Can't help but feel that he is lined up to be the central striker (but Adkins can't really drop lambert yet because of his immense record for us which is totally fair).

 

Clyne is the RB who bombs on, Davis will fit into a few of the central midfield three and Gazza is an up and coming keeper.

 

We really need that wide player and as you say central defenders.

 

If we were to bring in a wide player, LB and CB then we would be looking good in the 4-3-3.

 

To be clear - are you suggesting that a striker, a RB, a GK and a CM can't play in a 4-4-2?? or a 4-2-2-2 for example? or a 4-5-1?? Can they only play in a 4-4-3? I don't think you should base us dropping the 4-4-2 on that evidence mate.

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To be clear - are you suggesting that a striker, a RB, a GK and a CM can't play in a 4-4-2?? or a 4-2-2-2 for example? or a 4-5-1?? Can they only play in a 4-4-3? I don't think you should base us dropping the 4-4-2 on that evidence mate.

 

No - Im suggesting that for the 4-3-3 Clyne and Davis fit in nicely. Clyne gets forward to supply width when Puncheon comes inside and Davis can either sit or move forward in the midfield. Of course they can play in other systems too but the poster I was answering said that our signigns don't fit the system whereas the only one who doesn't is JR and he would do if he was played as the central striker.

 

IMO its less the system and more the jump in quality that is going to be an issue.

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Sounds like it to me, as he says what is the point of playing JRod on the wing? Or wasting RL talents on his own though the middle?

 

What's Lambert meant to be good at if it's not playing as a central target man then ?

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Don't panic and carry on ffs!

 

We have had one bad beat - against a top champions league team - may I remind you all that we were League 1 only two season ago. We outplayed Ajax for 45min and that was their last pre-season friendly when they were at the end of theirs. We let in one goal against a team that beat Man UTD away in Europe, and that was a Jose "SIT" (shot in foot) Fonte Moment.

 

We comfortably beat Wolves so we can assume we are better than a **** premier team at any rate, and we played city of the park in the first 45 with our strongest 11. My main worry is that we don't seem to be able to score goals - with the exception of Puncheon and Sharpedo.

 

I still think we need a new CB because we don't have any cover (this is no disrespect to Danny S but we didn't see him last year so very hard to gauge his strengths at this time).

 

We are expected to get nil points from from Arsenal, Man UTD and City. So please can we not have pandemonium on here if that happens. Anything above that is honestly a bonus and I hope and believe that we can nick some points here and there.

 

As for the comments about a formation being forced upon us. Firstly, one quote that is missing from that article is nigel saying "i was awestruck by how well we played in the first 30min against Bristol" - does that sound like a manager who doesn't like the formation. He also points out and defends HIS stance on the new formation by detailing how no one like the diamond when he introduced it at first and states that this formation is just a new way to play and a new weapon in the armoury. He also adds that this is an addition to their existing repertoire not as a replacement. And in truth I believe him as he is using it to compete with the possession football of the top sides - i.e -Ajax, Arsenal, Anderlecht and sie Italianos.

 

We will be okay, it will be a struggle but I'm going to stick with my pre-season estimate of anywhere between 10-15th, have not seen anything to worry me yet and unless we lose 7-0 to city I won't change my mind.

 

I think the point that you're missing with our pre-season is that it's perfectly possible to dominate possession and not score (awestruck by 45 minutes of still not actually beating Bristol City?), and things like "we'd have won if it wasn't for one of our defenders making a mistake" are precisely the difference between being in the Championship and the Premier League (and Champions League).

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What's Lambert meant to be good at if it's not playing as a central target man then ?

 

I meant playing on his own, without support ie from the 2nd Striker as 433 / 451 when he is often lift isolated. Has he scored any goals with his head at the back post in the pre-season? Also a lot of the time he likes to come deep for the ball leaving the other forward to take the markers etc.

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He's also pretty good at dropping deep and collecting the ball, as well as drifting out wide and spreading the play and splitting the defence. But you wouldn't be able to see that with your irrational dislike for him.

 

If you actually check back through all of my posts on Lambert you'll see I've always said exactly that, my point was that you can't really complain about Lambert being asked to play in what people have been saying for 3 years is his best position and blame the system.

 

My supposed "irrational dislike" is actually a considered critique of his lack of mobility and ability to provide BOTH that linking play and a presence in front of goal, which surprise surprise is now manifesting itself in us having no cutting edge because Lambert is isolated and having to wait for the rest of the team to get forward precisely because he can't beat people on his own. He's good in the box IF he's in the box (but he won't have been part of the build up) and he's good outside the box (but don't expect him to be on the end of crosses as well unless we faff about with it first).

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I meant playing on his own, without support ie from the 2nd Striker as 433 / 451 when he is often lift isolated. Has he scored any goals with his head at the back post in the pre-season? Also a lot of the time he likes to come deep for the ball leaving the other forward to take the markers etc.

 

He hasn't scored any goals full stop, but I wouldn't be expecting him to get many far post headers in the Prem anyway, defenders are just better at dealing with the simple stuff.

 

I think the idea of our 4-3-3/4-5-1 is that the wide men in the 3 or 5 get forward with him - I've been saying they could play Lambert as a false nine and push Rodriguez/Sharp on beyond him, which suits Lambert's style (though maybe not Sharp's, who always strikes me as a lone striker or one of a pair on the shoulder of the last defender, rather than someone who'd have defensive responsibilities).

 

The long and short of it, Lambert can't do "lone striker" without support, but he's also less cut out to do it than a more creative player who can work his own openings. I think what Sharp loses in his ball-killing and holding up, he gains in movement, rolling and beating people. Rodriguez has it all and seems a natural replacement for Lambert, but needs more experience in that lone role, holding up the ball and linking play at the moment.

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Chances are Nigel will be gone after this season anyway. If he does well he'll get pinched by a bigger club ( just like Norwich and Swansea) if he doesn't do well NC will no doubt wield the axe anyway......either way I can't see Nigel being here next season.

 

Cant say I agree with that assessment Doddsy. I really dont see Nigel leaving any time soon (unless he f*cks up monumentally and gets sacked, which I personally think is highly unlikely,) I reckon he sees this as a long term project.

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The9

 

Deciding lambert is crap already

 

Many said he would not cut it at a club like saints. Many said that he would not cut it in the NPC

 

Now, you have decided he is crap

 

Absolute nonsense. I've only said he's not mobile enough to play effectively as a lone striker in the Prem because he can't get past people on his own, and that's something you need to be able to do or you're limited to being a hold up player who's never a goal threat because you're never in the box. Otherwise the team's attack is dependent on the other striker(s) pushing on beyond the "target man" to get in behind the defence.

 

It seems to be an argument that's a bit too complex for some though.

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Cant say I agree with that assessment Doddsy. I really dont see Nigel leaving any time soon (unless he f*cks up monumentally and gets sacked, which I personally think is highly unlikely,) I reckon he sees this as a long term project.

 

Reckonn Norwich thought same about Lambert and Swansea thought the same about Rodgers. If Nigel proves himself good enough for the PL plenty of bigger clubs will be interested in any upcoming English manager IMO of course

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If anyone listened to Blackmore on Radio Radio last season you will realise he doesn't like Nigel.

There were comments like "phone or text in if you don't like Nigel post match interview and tell us if you think he should give out more details" etc. etc. I remember one week he said something that along the lines of - "unappy gave a good and honest(sic) post match interview" and that Nigel should take note.

Each week he would have a "dig at Saints" over something for example "It looked as if Adam L was limping towards the end of the game but I bet Nigel doesn't give us any information etc etc."

I think only a few weeks ago he was having a go a Saints fans in twitter because they didn't have "sympathy with the phew".

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Reckonn Norwich thought same about Lambert and Swansea thought the same about Rodgers. If Nigel proves himself good enough for the PL plenty of bigger clubs will be interested in any upcoming English manager IMO of course

 

You could be right, we'll find out soon enough I guess. I just dont think he's here as a stepping-stone club myself, never had that impression from him, but what do I know.

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Absolute nonsense. I've only said he's not mobile enough to play effectively as a lone striker in the Prem because he can't get past people on his own, and that's something you need to be able to do or you're limited to being a hold up player who's never a goal threat because you're never in the box. Otherwise the team's attack is dependent on the other striker(s) pushing on beyond the "target man" to get in behind the defence.

 

It seems to be an argument that's a bit too complex for some though.

He should be able to play it on his own though. He holds the ball up fantastically well, and his awareness is top notch. The problem as I've seen it so far is not from RL, but that support players such as Puncheon, Lallana and Rodriguez (or whoever the wide players have been) are far too slow to get forward and support him. 4-5-1 is supposed to turn into 4-3-3 very quickly, and then back again to regain defensive shape. We simply haven't got the hang of that yet, with the wide players and Lallana often being 20 or 30 yeards away from RL when he's surrounded by players. I don't care if you've got Didier Drogba in that situation, its not going to work from an attacking point of view if the wide players aren't able to recognise when they should commit forwards.

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NA is known for complicating things- has always spoken of the need to have multiple formations to the point where he has frequently chopped and changed during games - sometimes to the confusion of the players. In short, NA has got a track record.

Fat Adam seems to be getting carried away, jumping from the fact that NC is responsible for transfers (most chairmen's prerogative) and concluding everything therefore is laid down from above. Or maybe he's so starved for stories that he's having to read between the lines -and the ones in question are pretty innocuous.

If Nic wasn't such a tolerant, thick-skinned chap, I'd say Fat Adam might be looking at a ban ;)

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He should be able to play it on his own though. He holds the ball up fantastically well, and his awareness is top notch. The problem as I've seen it so far is not from RL, but that support players such as Puncheon, Lallana and Rodriguez (or whoever the wide players have been) are far too slow to get forward and support him. 4-5-1 is supposed to turn into 4-3-3 very quickly, and then back again to regain defensive shape. We simply haven't got the hang of that yet, with the wide players and Lallana often being 20 or 30 yeards away from RL when he's surrounded by players. I don't care if you've got Didier Drogba in that situation, its not going to work from an attacking point of view if the wide players aren't able to recognise when they should commit forwards.

 

It does and it doesn't. It depends how deep you have to drop to collect and hold up the ball. The deeper you drop, evidently to get clear of your CB, the harder it is for others to launch any kind of meaningful attack -everything just gets bunched up in the middle. The criticism of Drogba was that over time he was dropping deeper and deeper. Lambert has also been guity of this at times.

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Is Blackmore suggesting Adkins is being pressured to play a certain way because that is what it seems to me. I am starting to feel a little uncomfortable and would rather we played in a way the players at least feel comfortable with.

 

Thats exactly what he's suggesting. I have a lot of time for Adam Blackmore.

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He should be able to play it on his own though. He holds the ball up fantastically well, and his awareness is top notch. The problem as I've seen it so far is not from RL, but that support players such as Puncheon, Lallana and Rodriguez (or whoever the wide players have been) are far too slow to get forward and support him. 4-5-1 is supposed to turn into 4-3-3 very quickly, and then back again to regain defensive shape. We simply haven't got the hang of that yet, with the wide players and Lallana often being 20 or 30 yeards away from RL when he's surrounded by players. I don't care if you've got Didier Drogba in that situation, its not going to work from an attacking point of view if the wide players aren't able to recognise when they should commit forwards.

 

That's a completely fair point about the supporting players - where I disagree is the idea that Drogba wouldn't still be a threat to the opposition in the same isolated position. And no, I'm not expecting Lambert to be Drogba - that's kind of the point.

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It does and it doesn't. It depends how deep you have to drop to collect and hold up the ball. The deeper you drop, evidently to get clear of your CB, the harder it is for others to launch any kind of meaningful attack -everything just gets bunched up in the middle. The criticism of Drogba was that over time he was dropping deeper and deeper. Lambert has also been guity of this at times.

 

Yeah, but the difference is that Drogba (let's say Drogba 2009 rather than 2012) had the pace and mobility to get into the box from that deep position, and the dribbling skills and pure power to get past his marker and threaten the goal from deep even when isolated.

 

Not quite sure what you mean about things getting bunched up in the middle, btw ?

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Absolute nonsense. I've only said he's not mobile enough to play effectively as a lone striker in the Prem because he can't get past people on his own, and that's something you need to be able to do or you're limited to being a hold up player who's never a goal threat because you're never in the box. Otherwise the team's attack is dependent on the other striker(s) pushing on beyond the "target man" to get in behind the defence.

 

It seems to be an argument that's a bit too complex for some though.

 

I love Lambert and he's been fantastic for us since the day he joined. But I agree - I just dont think he fits in the lone role. He's all about knock downs and bringing the ball down and bringing others into play. The other striker generally pulls defenders around and then gives him more time to be able to pick a pass out wide, or through to the other forward, or a midfield runner. If he's on his own he'll struggle and like you say, he's not hugely mobile.

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I'd be surprised if Adkins is still here this time next year. Corteses ambition could well be the downfall of this clubs progress and all you clowns applauding the embarassing "challenge Man City" comments and ' reach for the stars' attitude are going going to be in for a huge disapointment and rude awakening.

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NA is known for complicating things- has always spoken of the need to have multiple formations to the point where he has frequently chopped and changed during games - sometimes to the confusion of the players. In short, NA has got a track record.

Fat Adam seems to be getting carried away, jumping from the fact that NC is responsible for transfers (most chairmen's prerogative) and concluding everything therefore is laid down from above. Or maybe he's so starved for stories that he's having to read between the lines -and the ones in question are pretty innocuous.

If Nic wasn't such a tolerant, thick-skinned chap, I'd say Fat Adam might be looking at a ban ;)

 

As fantastic a job as he has done, we need to remember that Adkins is still young and inexperienced in management when compared to a lot of others. As the players have improved, so will he.

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I'd be surprised if Adkins is still here this time next year. Corteses ambition could well be the downfall of this clubs progress and all you clowns applauding the embarassing "challenge Man City" comments and ' reach for the stars' attitude are going going to be in for a huge disapointment and rude awakening.

 

 

Pass me that glass mate, I'll top it up. Looks half-empty. ;)

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Yeah, but the difference is that Drogba (let's say Drogba 2009 rather than 2012) had the pace and mobility to get into the box from that deep position, and the dribbling skills and pure power to get past his marker and threaten the goal from deep even when isolated.

 

Not quite sure what you mean about things getting bunched up in the middle, btw ?

 

It happened at times last season, esp when Connolly and Lambert were playing -two players who don't have the mobility or pace or power (in the case of DC) to beat a man. Both were dropping into midfield to get the ball so that at times we had 6 in the middle of the park, making it easy for the oppo to push up.

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You can play 442 in the PL, I watched QPR beat Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool in the last few weeks of the season and nearly get a result at Citeh (if it wasnt for a certain scouse **** and the news coming through that we stayed up).

 

as for Adkins, I dont think he will last long. Saints are trying to do a Norwich by buying good NPC players but usually that doesnt work. Norwich were very lucky. They had the most goalline clearances, the opposition hit their post most, conceded the most goals of the teams that stayed up and their goalie made the 2nd most saves in the league.

 

Changing the formation to one the players arent comfortable with could be a disaster and the manager might not even make it to xmas.

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If anyone listened to Blackmore on Radio Radio last season you will realise he doesn't like Nigel.

There were comments like "phone or text in if you don't like Nigel post match interview and tell us if you think he should give out more details" etc. etc. I remember one week he said something that along the lines of - "unappy gave a good and honest(sic) post match interview" and that Nigel should take note.

Each week he would have a "dig at Saints" over something for example "It looked as if Adam L was limping towards the end of the game but I bet Nigel doesn't give us any information etc etc."

I think only a few weeks ago he was having a go a Saints fans in twitter because they didn't have "sympathy with the phew".

Well said Blackmore did quite a lot of subtle schitt stirring last season. Definitely a man with an agenda.

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The perfect article to feed the trolls on here , but I think people need to realise the Adam Blackmore is a skate so his comments are hardly surprising. He's just bitter coz his own lot are staring down the barrel of League 2 already.

 

I thought Adam Blackmore was from the Midlands. He's an excellent broadcaster in my opinion, talks a lot of sense and also seems to be able to get inside info from very high up within the club. He seems to be one of the very few people who Cortese will talk to.

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It is a total myth that all premier league teams play 4-5-1\4-3-3 and none play 4-4-2. There is nothing wrong with learning new formations to give you more options but do not try to put square pegs into round holes. Pick your best team and a formation that suits them and for us at the moment that is 4-4-2.

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