Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Is it due to our deep lying mids not closing down enough, or is at an issue at CB not blocking enough? Either way we need to nip it in the bud soonish as the quality of player and the quality of strike will improve this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 You don't say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Probably a combination of both, plus Kevin is seeing them too late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawillwill Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Probably a combination of both, plus Kevin is seeing them too late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Can be so many reasons, including the fact that every now and again someone does hit a good shot. I would suggest this isn't in our top 40 concerns at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Is it due to our deep lying mids not closing down enough, or is at an issue at CB not blocking enough? Either way we need to nip it in the bud soonish as the quality of player and the quality of strike will improve this year. Do we let in more long range goals than other teams then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Can be so many reasons, including the fact that every now and again someone does hit a good shot. I would suggest this isn't in our top 40 concerns at the moment. I've got it down at number 38 actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merrimd Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Its because we don't concede many short range shots cos we are defending properly. Let them shoot from 25-30 yards. Most will be saved/blocked/miss the target. Some might fly in top corner. Its called playing the percentages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambol2K9 Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 I've got it down at number 38 actually. Well i've got it down as 35.... we'll have to compare notes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 8 August, 2012 Author Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Do we let in more long range goals than other teams then? I don't know, but it always seems we do. It's something I have noticed for years, since Joe Garner scored a worldy against us for Forest, I just think we concede more than we should. MLG, there's a useful job for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokingFun Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Do we actually concede a greater than average number of goals from long range than other teams or is it a case of human memory mainly remembering the absolute screamers opposition teams score against us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Is it due to our deep lying mids not closing down enough, or is at an issue at CB not blocking enough? Either way we need to nip it in the bud soonish as the quality of player and the quality of strike will improve this year. Quite simply, it is the inability of our No 1 keeper to get anywhere near the long range shots. FACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Quite simply, it is the inability of our No 1 keeper to get anywhere near the long range shots. FACT How many long range shots have we let in? Boro 2 x against Pompey. One of which was simply brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 The PFC equaliser was the fault of several players not closing down, but that wasn't really long range or a screamer was it. No, but I think it was indicative of a plus/minus weakness we have, and one that we certainly need to address. It was pretty much replicated against Reading. We conceded several key goals from the "D" on the edge of our box because we didn't defend that vital area well, but I don't recall us scoring too many from there - largely because of a reluctance to shoot. Unless we do something about it, that weakness will be more costly this year, at both ends of the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Is it due to our deep lying mids not closing down enough, or is at an issue at CB not blocking enough? Either way we need to nip it in the bud soonish as the quality of player and the quality of strike will improve this year. do we ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggface Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 This is very true.... Just as important how many long range goals do we score. Not many at all. Both stats will need to improve this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Not sure we do concede more than average, but if we do its usually a good sign - that the opposition are shut out from getting close to goal and are reduced to long range pops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Is it due to our deep lying mids not closing down enough, or is at an issue at CB not blocking enough? Either way we need to nip it in the bud soonish as the quality of player and the quality of strike will improve this year. We don't. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Another odd thread. There have been occasions when we stand off too much and let them take a shot, but it could be argued that we don't concede many bad goals and teams can't get behind us. This is really not worth worrying about. Im also confused at the relevance of joe garner scoring against us long range, when this was 4 years ago against 11 different players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maysie Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 You might have a point http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/stats/_/id/376/season/2011/league/eng.2/southampton?cc=5739 Out of 45 goals conceded (in the league) 18 were outside the area - is this right as it does seem high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Im also confused at the relevance of joe garner scoring against us long range, when this was 4 years ago against 11 different players. ....and different manager, coaches, chairman and league. Apart from that there is a lesson for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maysie Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 You might have a point http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/stats/_/id/376/season/2011/league/eng.2/southampton?cc=5739 Out of 45 goals conceded (in the league) 18 were outside the area - is this right as it does seem high? Also there seems to be a lot more goals we scored outside the area then I can remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maysie Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 You might have a point http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/stats/_/id/376/season/2011/league/eng.2/southampton?cc=5739 Out of 45 goals conceded (in the league) 18 were outside the area - is this right as it does seem high? After flicking through other teams this isn't actually too high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Get used to it. Plus also, it's probably NC's fault for not signing enough Prem quality players, NA's fault for not being tactically aware that some players might actually not want to walk the ball into the goal, plus it's all the players fault for not putting their balls on the line for the badge. I think that covers it, but feel free to fill in the blanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 You might have a point http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/stats/_/id/376/season/2011/league/eng.2/southampton?cc=5739 Out of 45 goals conceded (in the league) 18 were outside the area - is this right as it does seem high? Man City conceded 27% of their goals from outside the box last season. http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/clubs/profile.statistics.html/man-city#clubsTabsDefending Wigan 26%. Which says to me it doesn't make a lot of difference where you concede them, just if you concede them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Get used to it. Plus also, it's probably NC's fault for not signing enough Prem quality players, NA's fault for not being tactically aware that some players might actually not want to walk the ball into the goal, plus it's all the players fault for not putting their balls on the line for the badge. I think that covers it, but feel free to fill in the blanks. The blanks would be that if we weren't conceding ANY long range goals we'd be "susceptible to letting teams in behind us" or some such gash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Can be so many reasons, including the fact that every now and again someone does hit a good shot. I would suggest this isn't in our top 40 concerns at the moment. I don't know where this goes as a priority but it is predominantly down to the midfield or defending attacker giving too much space to the opposition in front of the defence. The very worst example is when there is a midfielder / attacker in a decent defensive position to stop the goal, only for the concentration to wander and let the opposition have a free go. Kelvin has done reasonably well but he does have a slight disadvantage because of his height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Is it due to our deep lying mids not closing down enough, or is at an issue at CB not blocking enough? Either way we need to nip it in the bud soonish as the quality of player and the quality of strike will improve this year. well, we have scored a few ourselves over the years. Few of us have played " serious football " at any good level, but with players charging around at 30 mph ...there is little anyone can do to stop an unmarked player from taking a pot-shot from 25 yards. The unfortunate goalie may have 15-20 players in front of him and may not even see the kicker -let alone the ball. A stunt on Swedish TV some years ago timed the speed of shots by some of their international players. Henke Larsson (ex Celtic striker) was clocked at almost 100 mph.....I'd defy anyone to stop one of those. It's all down to luck..if the keeper gets a sight of it, he makes a wonder save and everyone breathes a sigh of relief, until the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 We just give oppostion players too much time/space near the edge of the box, and now and then pay the inevitable price for this. This goes back to Lundekvam's days at least. The other issue is everyone piling back into the box to defend, but no-one patrolling the edge of the box. The most depressing example of this being the Skates' 2nd equaliser at SMS, which was from a ball cleared from our box, but we didn't have a midfied player guarding the edge of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelkel31 Posted 9 August, 2012 Share Posted 9 August, 2012 the two cb's droping clearing headers short and inside the 18yrd box lines will allways be askig for trouble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 9 August, 2012 Share Posted 9 August, 2012 What a wierd fred. Have we ever established that we are prone to conceding long range goals then? I can't remember anything that would suggest that we are any more (or less) prone to this than any other team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 August, 2012 Share Posted 9 August, 2012 What a wierd fred. Have we ever established that we are prone to conceding long range goals then? I can't remember anything that would suggest that we are any more (or less) prone to this than any other team. There is nothing whatsoever to support this basic premise. Especially not from the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 9 August, 2012 Author Share Posted 9 August, 2012 After doing a bit of maths it looks like our percentage is around the middle, so we don't concede too many. However, it seems the better defences do indeed concede more from outside the area: Reading: 26 of 41 - 63% Saints: 18 of 45 - 40% West Ham: 21 of 52 - 40% Birmingham: 30 of 50 - 60% Blackpool: 22 of 59 - 37% Cardiff: 17 of 57 - 30% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 9 August, 2012 Share Posted 9 August, 2012 Can be so many reasons, including the fact that every now and again someone does hit a good shot. I would suggest this isn't in our top 40 concerns at the moment. I would have thought it is top 10 actually. We are against much higher quality with many players who like and do shoot from range. No point defending the box if you are going to let in 25-30 yarders every couple of games. Personally I think the deep midfielders/defense don't close them down. But good luck with that approach against city, united, spurs, chelsea, liverpool etc - or just newcastle and cisse. Saints will have to address this and I really hope it is higher than 40th on the priorities list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 August, 2012 Share Posted 9 August, 2012 I would have thought it is top 10 actually. We are against much higher quality with many players who like and do shoot from range. No point defending the box if you are going to let in 25-30 yarders every couple of games. Personally I think the deep midfielders/defense don't close them down. But good luck with that approach against city, united, spurs, chelsea, liverpool etc - or just newcastle and cisse. Saints will have to address this and I really hope it is higher than 40th on the priorities list. You have to defend against ALL methods of scoring goals. A bunch of charges to block long shots would just increase the number of goals conceded from inside the box from through balls into the huge holes in the back line left by charging CBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 9 August, 2012 Share Posted 9 August, 2012 We just give oppostion players too much time/space near the edge of the box, and now and then pay the inevitable price for this. This goes back to Lundekvam's days at least. The other issue is everyone piling back into the box to defend, but no-one patrolling the edge of the box. The most depressing example of this being the Skates' 2nd equaliser at SMS, which was from a ball cleared from our box, but we didn't have a midfied player guarding the edge of the box. Because he'd got booted off the pitch....Schneiderlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 August, 2012 Share Posted 9 August, 2012 (edited) After doing a bit of maths it looks like our percentage is around the middle, so we don't concede too many. However, it seems the better defences do indeed concede more from outside the area: Reading: 26 of 41 - 63% Saints: 18 of 45 - 40% West Ham: 21 of 52 - 40% Birmingham: 30 of 50 - 60% Blackpool: 22 of 59 - 37% Cardiff: 17 of 57 - 30% It would be nice to see some of the middle and bottom teams for comparison. You've said we're "around the middle" and only listed 6 of the top Championship teams. Are we around the middle of the top 6, or are we around the middle for the entire division ? Also, there's a variation of 33% between top and bottom side listed there, with Brum conceding 5 goals more than Saints but 12 (20%) more long shots, and West Ham conceding 2 more than Brum but a similar percentage as Saints. I'd say those conclusions weren't really in line with the figures. Oh, and of course either way if we're in the middle we don't concede too many long range goals. Edited 9 August, 2012 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 August, 2012 Share Posted 9 August, 2012 (edited) Because he'd got booted off the pitch....Schneiderlin. Not to mention we had 2 players running to block the shot which literally bent around the back of one of them and missed the other by inches. EDIT: It was from a header which popped up into the air, Richardson and Fonte both read it and (with Fonte having jumped for the initial header) both ran to close the ball down but they were a few yards away and just couldn't get there in time. Edited 9 August, 2012 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 August, 2012 Share Posted 9 August, 2012 (edited) Not to mention we had 2 players running to block the shot which literally bent around the back of one of them and missed the other by inches. What happened in that game was that we took a striker off and brought a defender (maybe Harding) on to play. Everyone pushed back. Their defence had the ball and kept moving forward. Cork went forward to close them down (as we had nobody further up) and it was Cork's space that the Norris shot came from. The danger of sitting back too much. Edited 9 August, 2012 by Saint Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 9 August, 2012 Author Share Posted 9 August, 2012 It would be nice to see some of the middle and bottom teams for comparison. You've said we're "around the middle" and only listed 6 of the top Championship teams. Are we around the middle of the top 6, or are we around the middle for the entire division ? Also, there's a variation of 33% between top and bottom side listed there, with Brum conceding 5 goals more than Saints but 12 (20%) more long shots, and West Ham conceding 2 more than Brum but a similar percentage as Saints. I'd say those conclusions weren't really in line with the figures. I haven't got the time to do others unfortunately, but feel free to have a go yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 August, 2012 Share Posted 9 August, 2012 I haven't got the time to do others unfortunately, but feel free to have a go yourself. As I edited above, either way we don't "concede too many long range goals", from what you've posted we're in the middle somewhere. So why did you think we had ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 9 August, 2012 Author Share Posted 9 August, 2012 As I edited above, either way we don't "concede too many long range goals", from what you've posted we're in the middle somewhere. So why did you think we had ? I know, I said that in the post if you read it properly. I obviously just thought the amount of long range goals we conceded was more than other clubs?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 August, 2012 Share Posted 9 August, 2012 I know, I said that in the post if you read it properly. I obviously just thought the amount of long range goals we conceded was more than other clubs?! Not in the OP you didn't though. So why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 9 August, 2012 Author Share Posted 9 August, 2012 Not in the OP you didn't though. So why ? I'm struggling to understand what you are getting at. I have said that: a) we don't concede too many (See post #34) b) Obviously I just thought we did concede more from long range (See post #43) What do you want me to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Matty 76 Posted 11 August, 2012 Share Posted 11 August, 2012 I feel this is going to be resurrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOWSaintDaz Posted 11 August, 2012 Share Posted 11 August, 2012 A Couple more tonight too, Davis caught out on both occasions, think Man City will be watching that as they are just as good as Udinese, if not better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 11 August, 2012 Share Posted 11 August, 2012 Both absolutely stunning strikes. Any GK would have done well to get near them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 11 August, 2012 Share Posted 11 August, 2012 Both absolutely stunning strikes. Any GK would have done well to get near them. So were we slow to close down the shooter then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 11 August, 2012 Share Posted 11 August, 2012 So were we slow to close down the shooter then? Possibly, but they were totally out of the blue. One of them was with so little backlift you wouldn't have even thought he'd be hitting it. Di Natalie is a player and a half, scores all sorts of goals. Best striker in europe right now in terms of goal ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 11 August, 2012 Share Posted 11 August, 2012 Possibly, but they were totally out of the blue. One of them was with so little backlift you wouldn't have even thought he'd be hitting it. Di Natalie is a player and a half, scores all sorts of goals. Best striker in europe right now in terms of goal ratio. Fair enough, but from what I've see one of the issues around our box is not just failing to close people down quickly enough, but its root cause - failing to anticipate the need to close players down. We can do a lot of ball watching around there - and it gets more expensive the higher we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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