Lords reform to be abandoned - Are the Lib Dems...

[alpine_saint]

Ah Astute, please tell me which current SSN's available in the world are better. The design of a nuclear submarine is recognised as one of if not the most complex engineering systems in the world. The design process requires that technology is de-risked before it can be included in the design, I would bet my shirt your examples were not mature enough when the design freeze decisions had to be taken hence designers include growth margin in all designs to allow for capability inserts/upgrades throughout the life of the system. Minor question TDD do you understand DLODS?

 

I work in complex electronic safety-critical systems, and I admit your comments are spot-on. So what if Astute needs a refit once the technology is proven and qualified ?

 

Probably Ambush, Artful and Audacious will be / are fine and up-to-date.

 

You are full of it, TDD.

[pap]

No proper debate on membership of the EU.

 

Hang on Alps, Cameron bottled the EU decision all on his own.

[Thedelldays]

I work in complex electronic safety-critical systems, and I admit your comments are spot-on. So what if Astute needs a refit once the technology is proven and qualified ?

 

Probably Ambush, Artful and Audacious will be / are fine and up-to-date.

 

You are full of it, TDD.

 

Ok. Just speaking as one of those that has to operate the things. Easy to sit there with facts and figure sheets at your desks, patting yourselves on the backs.....when the real life element of it is way off

 

Hence why they are so late into service and very badly designed

[moonraker]

Ok. Just speaking as one of those that has to operate the things. Easy to sit there with facts and figure sheets at your desks, patting yourselves on the backs.....when the real life element of it is way off

 

Hence why they are so late into service and very badly designed

 

TDD I fully understand your frustration 20 years operating and now nearly 20 years designing, believe me there is no easy answer. Design teams are very professional and truly try to provide the best possible solution to the front line but have to operate within the available budget and technology constraints. The 2 elements that designers cannot plan for are politicians and service driven requirements creep. The politician interfere and the series change their mind depending on the latest events. One of the reasons so many projects overspend is changing requirements (QEC will cost more because of Cameron’s complete mis-judgment on the type of Aircraft).

[pap]

TDD I fully understand your frustration 20 years operating and now nearly 20 years designing, believe me there is no easy answer. Design teams are very professional and truly try to provide the best possible solution to the front line but have to operate within the available budget and technology constraints. The 2 elements that designers cannot plan for are politicians and service driven requirements creep. The politician interfere and the series change their mind depending on the latest events. One of the reasons so many projects overspend is changing requirements (QEC will cost more because of Cameron’s complete mis-judgment on the type of Aircraft).

.

Story of my life, particularly bad when working for Government.

[FarehamRed]

[Lord Duckhunter]

Clegg and the Lib/Dems are talking Pony yet again, with this tit for tat approach to boundray reform.

 

 

The Government put a set of proposals to parliament and whipped their MP's to vote for it. I cant see how that is breaking the coalition agreement as MP's individual votes are not in the gift of any party leader.

 

MP's are perfectly free to defy the whip even if the proposal was in the manifesto. It is up to the party whether they deselect backbench MP's who do so, and up to the Electorate whethere their voting pattern means re election if they stand again. What is not possible is for members of the Govenrment to vote down a Government measure. They are either sacked or they resign. This is what happened to junior members of the Government who voted against Lords reform. Therefore Cameron needs to bring forward the boundray changes and Clegg needs to act in the same manner Cameron did with Lords reform. That is; whip his MP's to vote for it (however half hearted) and all members of the Government need to vote for it,be sacked, or resign (Angie Bray was sacked as PPS and Conor Burns resigned for voting against house of Lords reform) .

 

If Clegg, Cable or anyone else votes against boundrey changes, they will have to leave the Government. Their backbench MP's are free to vote how they want, but Government members are not. That has always been the case over many years and over Government's of every colour .This was certainly the case with Lords reform, and Cameron needs to spell this out to Clegg and grow a pair.

[alpine_saint]

Ok. Just speaking as one of those that has to operate the things. Easy to sit there with facts and figure sheets at your desks, patting yourselves on the backs.....when the real life element of it is way off

 

Hence why they are so late into service and very badly designed

 

I didnt say they arent too expensive or behind schedule, but you dont have a clue (revenge is sooo sweet) about what is required in terms of design methodology, qualification and risk assessment for complex safety-critical systems. I do. They are a bastard to get right and are arguably never completely finished.

 

You just turn the oven knob to 210deg anyway..

[alpine_saint]

Clegg and the Lib/Dems are talking Pony yet again, with this tit for tat approach to boundray reform.

 

 

The Government put a set of proposals to parliament and whipped their MP's to vote for it. I cant see how that is breaking the coalition agreement as MP's individual votes are not in the gift of any party leader.

 

MP's are perfectly free to defy the whip even if the proposal was in the manifesto. It is up to the party whether they deselect backbench MP's who do so, and up to the Electorate whethere their voting pattern means re election if they stand again. What is not possible is for members of the Govenrment to vote down a Government measure. They are either sacked or they resign. This is what happened to junior members of the Government who voted against Lords reform. Therefore Cameron needs to bring forward the boundray changes and Clegg needs to act in the same manner Cameron did with Lords reform. That is; whip his MP's to vote for it (however half hearted) and all members of the Government need to vote for it,be sacked, or resign (Angie Bray was sacked as PPS and Conor Burns resigned for voting against house of Lords reform) .

 

If Clegg, Cable or anyone else votes against boundrey changes, they will have to leave the Government. Their backbench MP's are free to vote how they want, but Government members are not. That has always been the case over many years and over Government's of every colour .This was certainly the case with Lords reform, and Cameron needs to spell this out to Clegg and grow a pair.

 

Yep. Spot on analysis.

 

The LibDems show more and more with each passing day their total lack of fitness for governance.

[Thedelldays]

I didnt say they arent too expensive or behind schedule, but you dont have a clue (revenge is sooo sweet) about what is required in terms of design methodology, qualification and risk assessment for complex safety-critical systems. I do. They are a bastard to get right and are arguably never completely finished.

 

You just turn the oven knob to 210deg anyway..

haha....says the failed sailor

 

my left little toe is and was more operational that you would ever be

[alpine_saint]

haha....says the failed sailor

 

my left little toe is and was more operational that you would ever be

 

Oh, you'd be surprised where my little toes have been and what they have done.....

 

Is being "operational" in front of a row of baking tins the only type of "operational" that counts ?