Honour killing parents each given 25 years

[pap]

Iftikhar and Farzana Ahmed will both serve a minimum of 25 years for the murder of their daughter Shafilea.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/aug/03/shafilea-ahmed-parents-guilty-murder

 

Shocking business; tragic case of culture clash and people having their priorities set so very wrong.

[mightysaints]

Why do they want to live in the west but hate the western ways. Every time i see the news where there is a clash of cultures it's always Muslim. They still represent a small % of cultures within the uk but appear to represent the most trouble

[Sheaf Saint]

Tragic case this, but I'm glad that justice has been served. I would have expected a lesser sentence for the mother though seeing as she didn't actually kill Shafilea herself and also confessed during the trial.

 

Have to agree with Pap though, about the misplaced priorities. Could any of us even entertain the thought of murdering our own children just because they don't share our beliefs about some ancient work of fiction? I realise that devotion to a theistic religion requires the complete absence of all rational thought anyway, but to this extreme? It's really sad. I have a close friend who comes from a Muslim family, and her father refused to even look her in the eye for years after she told him that she didn't believe in Allah and rejected the strict Islamic tradition that he tried to impose on her. I just can't comprehend that thinking myself.

[Micky]

Shocking, sad and incomprehensible.

[JackFrost]

Why do they want to live in the west but hate the western ways. Every time i see the news where there is a clash of cultures it's always Muslim. They still represent a small % of cultures within the uk but appear to represent the most trouble

 

Because when it comes to Muslims the 0.1% that hold extremist views get 99.9% of the press coverage.

[Orange]

Because when it comes to Muslims the 0.1% that hold extremist views get 99.9% of the press coverage.

 

I'd say its a lot more than 0.1%, polls would suggest so too.

[hypochondriac]

I'd say its a lot more than 0.1%, polls would suggest so too.

 

still a small percentage. My girlfriend's dad is a muslim. Lovely bloke.

[Saint in Paradise]

IMHO a big part of the problem is that the large majority of normal Muslims seem

to be under enormous pressure from the lunatic lot to keep their mouths shut,

OR ELSE.

[Orange]

still a small percentage. My girlfriend's dad is a muslim. Lovely bloke.

 

I don't think its as small as some like to make out though.

 

Like 1 in 4 muslims (under NOP research), believed the 7/7 bombings were justified because of 'the war on terror'.

Then attitudes towards Sharia law in Britain etc, seem to be more than a tiny minority.

 

I just think there are muslim attitudes in our country that really need to be adressed by THEM not just non-muslims.

 

Look at George Galloway- i 'd say that was a pretty Islam based election campaign. And i'd say he's far more 'extreme' than Nick Griffin. Its like they want to ostracise themselves.

[hypochondriac]

I don't think its as small as some like to make out though.

 

Like 1 in 4 muslims (under NOP research), believed the 7/7 bombings were justified because of 'the war on terror'.

Then attitudes towards Sharia law in Britain etc, seem to be more than a tiny minority.

 

I just think there are muslim attitudes in our country that really need to be adressed by THEM not just non-muslims.

 

Look at George Galloway- i 'd say that was a pretty Islam based election campaign. And i'd say he's far more 'extreme' than Nick Griffin. Its like they want to ostracise themselves.

 

Where is this research?

[hypochondriac]

Also spoen to Mo Farah a few times. He is a muslim and a really nice and down to Earth guy. Proud Brit too.

[Orange]

Where is this research?

 

Some here- http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06

[um pahars]

Why do they want to live in the west but hate the western ways. Every time i see the news where there is a clash of cultures it's always Muslim. They still represent a small % of cultures within the uk but appear to represent the most trouble

 

I think one of the biggest problems is the misunderstandings highlighted in your own post.

 

Honor killings, Izzat, whatever you want to call them transcend religions and have their basis in tribal & cultural history, rather being a "Muslim" issue.

 

 

http://www.brin.ac.uk/news/2012/honour-crimes/

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-the-crimewave-that-shames-the-world-2072201.html

[suewhistle]

Honor killings, Izzat, whatever you want to call them transcend religions and have their basis in tribal & cultural history, rather being a "Muslim" issue.

 

Quite! Anybody familiar with the border ballads [e.g. "Clerk Saunders"] will appreciate that we've had it within our own culture in the past, although fortunately we've moved on a bit. It seems to be a very peasant and uneducated cultural phenomenon.

[pap]

I think one of the biggest problems is the misunderstandings highlighted in your own post.

 

Honor killings, Izzat, whatever you want to call them transcend religions and have their basis in tribal & cultural history, rather being a "Muslim" issue.

 

 

http://www.brin.ac.uk/news/2012/honour-crimes/

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-the-crimewave-that-shames-the-world-2072201.html

 

Quite! Anybody familiar with the border ballads [e.g. "Clerk Saunders"] will appreciate that we've had it within our own culture in the past, although fortunately we've moved on a bit. It seems to be a very peasant and uneducated cultural phenomenon.

 

Chatted to my granddad about this last night. He's from Karachi and is a bit of a poster boy for integration. He occasionally likes to pretend he holds extreme views and/or blame all the world's ills on liberalism, especially if there is a fair chance it'll wind me up.

 

Anyway, I asked him where the pressure comes from in situations like this. Why is it that people are prepared to kill their kids in order to save honour? A lot of it is rooted in the culture of arranged marriage. Pakistani families place great stock in their children ( I did try to suggest it was only girls - but was quickly shot down on that ) not being "damaged goods" in these arrangements. Consequently, girls who adopt Western ways of thinking are big problems to the honour of traditional Pakistani families.

 

When a girl from a Western background sleeps around, yeah, some people will probably gossip about it. There may even be some fallout if she's cheating on a partner, etc. However, unless her family have had a long history of being wrong'uns, any stigma, whether you think that correct or not, falls only on her. If a Pakistani girl does the same thing, she turns her family into contract-breakers and the sort of people who can't raise a child in the traditional way. Traditional communities are pretty tight-knit, and in some cases, can account for the vast majority of social contact. The Ahmeds obviously thought that remaining unblemished and within their community was worth more than the life of their daughter.

 

I should point out that I don't agree with any of the reasoning here - just passing on information from someone closer to the issue.

 

My view? Logically, this is something that can only really happen in the hardcore traditional community. I think it's slightly cynical that news of the sentencing has been folded into the general chaos of the Olympics. This won't get much air-time, and that's a shame - it's an issue that needs to be prominent. This will be big news in the Asian community whenever it lands, so I'm very pleased with the minimum 25 year sentences. Eyebrows have been raised over the sentencing of the mother, but it does send out a powerful message to any mothers who may be keeping silent - if you let this happen you're as culpable as if you made this happen.