Smacking your child

[trousers]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_in_the_home

[trousers]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_in_the_home

[pap]

First up Pap, not judging you, and I dont think you are out of order... Its not my place anyway to 'judge' - merely presenting an opinion. The example you describe I cant comment on, mine not yet at that age -( Have the joys of teenagers still to come ). Anyway, you answered your own question really - you say shes KNOWS she in the wrong, beacuse you as good parents (not meaning to sound patronizing) have taught her that... but like all teenagers going through that hideous phase, is reactionary and probably will know she is in the wrong and regret it when in a calmer frame of mind.

 

My point is that there is probably much worse teenage behaviour out there becuase those lessons were not given by parents, who probably did just smack and not take the time to explain...and repeat, and repeat with the patience that you as good parents obviously showed.

 

Again in a non judgemental way - Do you think the smack will have added to her understanding that this was wrong and decrease the liklihood of it happening again? I guess the crux of my opinion is that I dont think it would, but acknowledge a suitable punsihment is necessary - what that might be, no idea, as I say still got those 'joys' to come.

 

Yup, she knew she was in the wrong. She has a younger sister, and has been disciplined over the years for laying her hands on her. The missus actually runs a fairly tight ship as far at the kids are concerned. She is lucky enough to have the time to do so.

 

As for the causes of teenage behaviour, they're probably myriad. As someone who experienced the tail-end of corporal punishment in schools, I can certainly communicate that fear of getting caned or slippered kept almost all kids in line. What do you say to unruly kids now? We'll exclude you? Is that even a punishment for a lot of them?

 

What about us? What part do we have to play in unruly teenagers? Are we English helping ourselves in the long run by retreating to our castles when it takes "a village to raise a child"? People love to blame the parents, but at the same time our general responsibility as adults has eroded to just look after our own. Even in the early 1980s it was fairly apparent to me that if another adult caught me misbehaving, it'd get back to my mum and I'd be in hot water.

 

These days people worship their kids. Some parents genuinely believe that their kids are incapable of misbehaving, so in love with this reflected image of themselves that objective analysis of a situation involving their offspring becomes impossible. I suppose that's to be expected; genetic imperative kicking in, perhaps. Yet it can cause all kinds of problems for teachers and kids who fall foul to their outbursts.

 

In direct answer to your question about my daughter - she's never tried it again; and it wasn't as if the slap on the arse was the only "direction" she received. Once everything had calmed down I spent some one-on-one time with her telling her that I wouldn't have such behaviour in my house. Now whether she learned her lesson from the slap or the talk, I don't know. However, she knows that when she pushes people too far, there are consequences, and as such - makes all of her protestations through argument instead of violence.

[pap]

First up Pap, not judging you, and I dont think you are out of order... Its not my place anyway to 'judge' - merely presenting an opinion. The example you describe I cant comment on, mine not yet at that age -( Have the joys of teenagers still to come ). Anyway, you answered your own question really - you say shes KNOWS she in the wrong, beacuse you as good parents (not meaning to sound patronizing) have taught her that... but like all teenagers going through that hideous phase, is reactionary and probably will know she is in the wrong and regret it when in a calmer frame of mind.

 

My point is that there is probably much worse teenage behaviour out there becuase those lessons were not given by parents, who probably did just smack and not take the time to explain...and repeat, and repeat with the patience that you as good parents obviously showed.

 

Again in a non judgemental way - Do you think the smack will have added to her understanding that this was wrong and decrease the liklihood of it happening again? I guess the crux of my opinion is that I dont think it would, but acknowledge a suitable punsihment is necessary - what that might be, no idea, as I say still got those 'joys' to come.

 

Yup, she knew she was in the wrong. She has a younger sister, and has been disciplined over the years for laying her hands on her. The missus actually runs a fairly tight ship as far at the kids are concerned. She is lucky enough to have the time to do so.

 

As for the causes of teenage behaviour, they're probably myriad. As someone who experienced the tail-end of corporal punishment in schools, I can certainly communicate that fear of getting caned or slippered kept almost all kids in line. What do you say to unruly kids now? We'll exclude you? Is that even a punishment for a lot of them?

 

What about us? What part do we have to play in unruly teenagers? Are we English helping ourselves in the long run by retreating to our castles when it takes "a village to raise a child"? People love to blame the parents, but at the same time our general responsibility as adults has eroded to just look after our own. Even in the early 1980s it was fairly apparent to me that if another adult caught me misbehaving, it'd get back to my mum and I'd be in hot water.

 

These days people worship their kids. Some parents genuinely believe that their kids are incapable of misbehaving, so in love with this reflected image of themselves that objective analysis of a situation involving their offspring becomes impossible. I suppose that's to be expected; genetic imperative kicking in, perhaps. Yet it can cause all kinds of problems for teachers and kids who fall foul to their outbursts.

 

In direct answer to your question about my daughter - she's never tried it again; and it wasn't as if the slap on the arse was the only "direction" she received. Once everything had calmed down I spent some one-on-one time with her telling her that I wouldn't have such behaviour in my house. Now whether she learned her lesson from the slap or the talk, I don't know. However, she knows that when she pushes people too far, there are consequences, and as such - makes all of her protestations through argument instead of violence.

[norwaysaint]

Still nobody's answered the question for me. It's been proven many times over that you can raise children with clear boundaries, a sense of right and wrong and a respect for authority without hitting them at all. so why on Earth would you choose to?

 

The comments about a need for discipline are utterly irrelevant to choosing to hit your children. I've kept discipline firmly with my own and other people's kids for 20 years, there is just no need for hitting. Do you think parenting in the UK, where hitting children is commonplace, is really providing better citizens than the many countries where parents don't hit their children? It's just not the case. I still haven't seen any reason given for doing it that makes it worth doing when there are alternatives.

[norwaysaint]

Still nobody's answered the question for me. It's been proven many times over that you can raise children with clear boundaries, a sense of right and wrong and a respect for authority without hitting them at all. so why on Earth would you choose to?

 

The comments about a need for discipline are utterly irrelevant to choosing to hit your children. I've kept discipline firmly with my own and other people's kids for 20 years, there is just no need for hitting. Do you think parenting in the UK, where hitting children is commonplace, is really providing better citizens than the many countries where parents don't hit their children? It's just not the case. I still haven't seen any reason given for doing it that makes it worth doing when there are alternatives.

[pap]

Still nobody's answered the question for me. It's been proven many times over that you can raise children with clear boundaries, a sense of right and wrong and a respect for authority without hitting them at all. so why on Earth would you choose to?

 

The comments about a need for discipline are utterly irrelevant to choosing to hit your children. I've kept discipline firmly with my own and other people's kids for 20 years, there is just no need for hitting. Do you think parenting in the UK, where hitting children is commonplace, is really providing better citizens than the many countries where parents don't hit their children? It's just not the case. I still haven't seen any reason given for doing it that makes it worth doing when there are alternatives.

 

I've given you a clear example of one of the two times where my eldest got a slap, including the context and the severity of the punishment. I am open to other ideas, so I'd like to know what you'd have done differently to immediately take authority and defuse a potentially violent situation.

[pap]

Still nobody's answered the question for me. It's been proven many times over that you can raise children with clear boundaries, a sense of right and wrong and a respect for authority without hitting them at all. so why on Earth would you choose to?

 

The comments about a need for discipline are utterly irrelevant to choosing to hit your children. I've kept discipline firmly with my own and other people's kids for 20 years, there is just no need for hitting. Do you think parenting in the UK, where hitting children is commonplace, is really providing better citizens than the many countries where parents don't hit their children? It's just not the case. I still haven't seen any reason given for doing it that makes it worth doing when there are alternatives.

 

I've given you a clear example of one of the two times where my eldest got a slap, including the context and the severity of the punishment. I am open to other ideas, so I'd like to know what you'd have done differently to immediately take authority and defuse a potentially violent situation.

[Saint_clark]

Why do people keep going on about children being abused when the thread is about disciplining erring children with a light slap? It seems a lot of people are struggling with the difference which is a little worrying.

 

Exactly, if it's done properly it should sting for a few seconds and then the child should be left with no pain but still regretting their misbehaviour. We're not talking about a full open palm slap round the face or a punch in the ribs.

[pap]

Exactly, if it's done properly it should sting for a few seconds and then the child should be left with no pain but still regretting their misbehaviour. We're not talking about a full open palm slap round the face or a punch in the ribs.

 

Precisely. I think a lot of the "never" arguments basically involve pretending that controlled discipline is full on abuse.

 

It's crap, and I note with some interest that when asked a specific question ( "are you afraid of your mum and dad because of corporal punishment", the scenario involving my eldest ), Frank's Cousin excepted, they've all been silent.

 

Of course, the cost of being holier than thou on this subject is that if these parents ever do find themselves hitting their kids, it's probably going to be after they've lost it, and it probably isn't going to be in any way controlled.

[Hamilton Saint]

It is quite evident when a child is being abused.

 

The issue is what you do about it. Who is responsible for intervening?

[Hamilton Saint]

Why do people keep going on about children being abused when the thread is about disciplining erring children with a light slap? It seems a lot of people are struggling with the difference which is a little worrying.

 

The issue is those parents who "struggle with the difference" between discipline and abuse.

[Turkish]

No Turkish,

 

We are all aware you try and pick one or two isolated subquotes and use this to make a subsequent provocative statement designed often to wind up the poster, but I agree this can contribute to a debate as it stimultaes a response....

 

BUT you are missing several points.

 

Abuse v light slap - yep there is a big difference in terms of damage or harm caused, but legislation is designed to protect kids from extremes and often what you would consider drachonian is the only way to ensure that kids dont slip thorugh the net

 

Its interesting to see that 99.9% of those who claim that a smack is not harmful, tend to include 'well it never did me any harm' - would be interested if there are any out there that do smack their kids who were NOT smacked themselves... doubt there would be many. Its accepted that this is a cycle.

 

Also its simply not necessary. Yes young children will not comprehend a detailed discussion about rights and wrongs, but they pick up alot more form tone of voice and what we say than we give them credit for. Yes a smack will work, no doubt, but the child is then responding to fear, or the fear of potential pain. If a child runs into the road, our anger is usually really at our selves because like all parents it is impossible to be totally in control of them 100% despite the fact we know we should be - and the child has not done anything wrong in that case anyway, it simply did not know any better - so punishment seems the wrong way to deal with this anyway.

 

Smacking IMHO, is simply a way of quickening up the learning process to suit our own timescale - because it does work to a degree. But as said its simply not necessary, if you have patience - an essential of any parent.

 

So given the choice of large adult a smacking small child or threatening small child with smack versus acknowledging small kids do wrong things and having the patience to repeatedly talk to them about right and wrong as they grow up and learn to reason, I know which I prefer.

 

I was smacked as a child, as well as 'clips' around the ear and on even caned at school - despite the lack of 'harm' caused, it did not teach me anything... that came from being told what I had done wrong and why it was wrong.

 

I used to get the wooden spoon across my bum or legs if i was really naughty. I'm sure all the cool parents will be on here today to tell us all how wrong it is and how harmful it is to the children but to use evidence from one their favourite papers this appears not to be the case.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6926823/Smacked-children-more-successful-later-in-life-study-finds.html

 

Scientific research would suggest you are wrong.

[Turkish]

The issue is those parents who "struggle with the difference" between discipline and abuse.

 

Exactly,, the thread is about smacking yet about 5 posters keep going on about abuse. They appear unable to differentiate the two.

Edited 1 August, 2012 by Turkish

[Hamilton Saint]

Exactly,, the thread is about smacking yet about 5 posters keep going on about abuse. They appear unable to differentiate the two.

 

I don't think so; I think you are being disingenuous in pretending that there is no link at all. A small proportion of those parents who have no ideas in discipline, beyond just whacking their kids, will escalate the level of their physical punishment because they get more and more frustrated at their failure, and cannot fathom any other method.

[Thedelldays]

I don't think so; I think you are being disingenuous in pretending that there is no link at all. A small proportion of those parents who have no ideas in discipline, beyond just whacking their kids, will escalate the level of their physical punishment because they cannot fathom any other method.

giving your 4 year old a tap on the back of the legs is slightly different to punching him/her square in the face

[Hamilton Saint]

giving your 4 year old a tap on the back of the legs is slightly different to punching him/her square in the face

 

I realise that. Don't you pay attention to the qualifiers I put in my writing? I wrote "a small proportion" - and put it in italics to emphasise the point!

 

Those parents who are unable to make distinctions, and unable to recognise the divide between a slap of rebuke, and physical cruelty, will just use the toleration for the former as a justification in moving on to the latter. A small number of parents ...

[Thedelldays]

I realise that. Don't you pay attention to the qualifiers I put in my writing? I wrote "a small proportion" - and put it in italics to emphasise the point!

 

Those parents who are unable to make distinctions, and unable to recognise the divide between a slap of rebuke, and physical cruelty, will just a toleration for the former as a justification in moving on to the latter. A small number of parents ...

those parents who can't tell the difference from giving their kid a tap or beating them up would not pay any attention to any law or social taboo I suspect

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Yes all avoidable violence is wrong in principle and adults should try to find a better way of disciplining children. That is a fine academic theory of what idealized 21st century child care could be. But kids aren't raised in laboratory conditions by perfect human beings, they are reared in the real world within families that are often composed of very imperfect Human Beings alas. It is in our nature to become subject to stress and loss our temper, just as it is in a normal child's nature to establish where their boundaries lay. It seems to me part of what being a parent means is to be engaged in a 18 year long power struggle with your own children, a fight the parent dare not lose for everyone in society's sake.

 

When confronted with a reckless 3 year old intent on having his own way (kids have a way of pushing every 'button' somehow) even the most liberal of parents might lose their temper and apply a good old fashioned smack every now and again. Now that may be right, or it may be wrong, depending upon your point of view. But what it isn't is anybody else's business .. as long as any punishment administered amounts to reasonable chastisement rather than serious physical or mental abuse of course.

 

How do we tell the difference then?

 

Well if you've seen children who have be subject to real abuse then trust me you'd readily understand the clear difference between what is a occasionally smacked child - and a truly damaged one.

[Hamilton Saint]

those parents who can't tell the difference from giving their kid a tap or beating them up would not pay any attention to any law or social taboo I suspect

 

So, therefore, we do nothing about the problem? Or do we establish legal sanctions that allow us to intervene? That's what this debate is about, as far as I see it. Because a few on here have expressed the view that parental rights are sacrosanct, without acknowledging the need, occasionally, to protect children from outright abuse. I'm not pretending that the intervention of the State is not a tricky and disturbing situation - as I explained earlier.

[CB Saint]

So, therefore, we do nothing about the problem? Or do we establish legal sanctions that allow us to intervene? That's what this debate is about, as far as I see it. Because a few on here have expressed the view that parental rights are sacrosanct, without acknowledging the need, occasionally, to protect children from outright abuse. I'm not pretending that the intervention of the State is not a tricky and disturbing situation - as I explained earlier.

 

The legal sanctions currently exist, if you smack a child hard enough to leave a mark, you've broken the law. As I said earlier the law is sufficient to deal with those parents who cannot distinguish between discipline and assault, without criminalising the majority of sensible, caring, loving parents

[hypochondriac]

The thing is loads of things were done years back before we knew better. Smacking children can actually do them harm in the future so not sure why anyone would want to do it. There are just as effective alternative methods of discipline that don't involve violence.

[Hamilton Saint]

The legal sanctions currently exist, if you smack a child hard enough to leave a mark, you've broken the law. As I said earlier the law is sufficient to deal with those parents who cannot distinguish between discipline and assault, without criminalising the majority of sensible, caring, loving parents

 

Well, if these sensible parents you speak of are not crossing the line - are not smacking the child hard enough to leave a mark - then they are not breaking the law, right? In which case the law is not "criminalising the majority" - which sounds so dramatic - it's actually attempting to protect the small minority of abused children.

[CB Saint]

Well, if these sensible parents you speak of are not crossing the line - are not smacking the child hard enough to leave a mark - then they are not breaking the law, right? In which case the law is not "criminalising the majority" - which sounds so dramatic - it's actually attempting to protect the small minority of abused children.

 

Perhaps I misunderstood what you were getting at. I thought you were suggesting that we needed further legislation when in fact the laws we have are sufficient to deal with the issue.

[Frank's cousin]

At the end of the day its not illegal to smack in this country, there is 'probably' no lasting damage done by a soft smack when appropriate....etc, but as Norway Saint has asked, the question I guess remains is why the need to when there are equally effective alternative punishments that can ensure good behaviour is reinforced?

 

Sure, there are time when I think about it and its easy to believe it would be a more effective way, especially when my daughetr was younger and 'talking' did not seem to work, but I could simply not do it knowing I would be ashamed if I as a grown adult had to resort to smacking her rather than using alternatives. Just me.

 

Interestingly, data cited on Wiki showed that public opinion in Swden was roughly 50:50 when they banned it several years ago - now only 11% believe it is an effective an useful tool for parents to support discipline/punishment... attitudes change.

[Hamilton Saint]

Perhaps I misunderstood what you were getting at. I thought you were suggesting that we needed further legislation when in fact the laws we have are sufficient to deal with the issue.

 

No, I wasn't arguing for that. The essence of the points I've made:

 

- smacking is not "wrong", but it is unnecessary - and it can be counter-productive and lead to other problems;

 

- parents do not have the unfettered right "to bring up their kids in whatever manner they deem fit", if that includes physical and mental abuse and neglect;

 

- society (at several levels) has a moral and legal requirement to intervene, in order to protect children from abuse.

 

 

And I'll leave it at that!

[SO16_Saint]

Good debate, this, and I'm glad I opened up the thread.

 

I would like to think that I would be able to reason with my child, although reasoning with a young child is sometimes next to impossible - and can understand why a short sharp shock would do the job and get your point made.

 

That being said, is it right? Maybe not.

 

That's the thing with this type of question - 2 sides, no definitive right or wrong answer.

[Turkish]

I don't think so; I think you are being disingenuous in pretending that there is no link at all. A small proportion of those parents who have no ideas in discipline, beyond just whacking their kids, will escalate the level of their physical punishment because they get more and more frustrated at their failure, and cannot fathom any other method.

 

But this thread isn't about a small proportion of parents who can't control themselves. Most normal people are able to understand the difference between a light slap on the back of the legs to uncontrollable rage and lashing out in anger at a small child. Normal people can control their tempers, especially with small children. I find the obsession that a slight tap on the legs is one step away from violent abuse and Franks suggestion that people who are slapped as children grow up desperate to avenge their parents by hitting them back when they are older rather strange.

[hypochondriac]

But this thread isn't about a small proportion of parents who can't control themselves. Most normal people are able to understand the difference between a light slap on the back of the legs to uncontrollable rage and lashing out in anger at a small child. Normal people can control their tempers, especially with small children. I find the obsession that a slight tap on the legs is one step away from violent abuse and Franks suggestion that people who are slapped as children grow up desperate to avenge their parents by hitting them back when they are older rather strange.

 

But why slap a child on the legs when alternative methods of non violent discipline can work just as well?

[Turkish]

But why slap a child on the legs when alternative methods of non violent discipline can work just as well?

 

Personally IMO it's a last resort if nothing else works. I don't think there is anything wrong with it in those circumstances and if it isn't the parents lashing out at the kids in anger. My SIL and BIL slap thier daughter on the rare occasion nothing else works and a more loveable, pleasant, polite little girl you could not wish to meet. She as far as you can get away from the unhappy child quaking in fear that certain people on here would have you believe is the case.

Edited 1 August, 2012 by Turkish

[Hamilton Saint]

But this thread isn't about a small proportion of parents who can't control themselves. Most normal people are able to understand the difference between a light slap on the back of the legs to uncontrollable rage and lashing out in anger at a small child. Normal people can control their tempers, especially with small children. I find the obsession that a slight tap on the legs is one step away from violent abuse and Franks suggestion that people who are slapped as children grow up desperate to avenge their parents by hitting them back when they are older rather strange.

 

That's your characterisation - and an unfair one. It's not an obsession. We're not talking about "a slight tap". And noone is suggesting that that will lead in one small step to violent abuse.

[Hamilton Saint]

Personally IMO it's a last resort if nothing else works. I don't think there is anything wrong with it in those circumstances and if it isn't the parents lashing out at the kids in anger. My SIL and BIL slap thier daughter on the rare occasion nothing else works and a more loveable, pleasant, polite little girl you could not wish to meet. She as far as you can get away from the unhappy child quaking in fear that certain people on here would have you believe is the case.

 

Again, you mis-characterise the debate. Noone is saying that a smacked child is "quaking in fear".

[Turkish]

That's your characterisation - and an unfair one. It's not an obsession. We're not talking about "a slight tap". And noone is suggesting that that will lead in one small step to violent abuse.

 

So why are some many people going on about violent abuse on a thread where the OP CLEARLY says he's not talking about full slapping? It seems some people are desperate to link the two when the reality is, as you say yourself, it's only a very small minority of parents that are unable to control themselves. It's an odd link to make.

[Turkish]

Again, you mis-characterise the debate. Noone is saying that a smacked child is "quaking in fear".

 

I think you need to read Franks posts (if you can keep awake) regarding children that are smacked responding to fear.

[Hamilton Saint]

I think you need to read Franks posts (if you can keep awake) regarding children that are smacked responding to fear.

 

Why the phrase there in parentheses?

[Turkish]

Why the phrase there in parentheses?

 

Read them, then you'll understand.

[Hamilton Saint]

So why are some many people going on about violent abuse on a thread where the OP CLEARLY says he's not talking about full slapping? It seems some people are desperate to link the two when the reality is, as you say yourself, it's only a very small minority of parents that are unable to control themselves. It's an odd link to make.

 

The debate has moved about because people have responded to each other's comments - which invariably start to take a few tangents.

 

For example, one poster said: "the State has absolutely no role to play in how I bring my children up. You bring your chidren up how you want and I will bring mine up how I think is best."

 

To which I replied: "Yes, granted, but the state does have a duty - a legal obligation - to intervene when children are being abused."

 

It's a nuanced debate, but you seem to want to simplify it and reduce it to a simple black-and-white situation. And label other people to suit your own bias.

[SuperMikey]

I think it's an important part of parenting. Obviously it shouldn't be a frequent method of dealing with a situation, but if my parents ever gave me a bit of a smack I knew they meant business and I would stop mucking about. Reasoning with children can be a very hard thing (believe me, I was a babysitter for several years in my teens and had to deal with some proper little sh!ts - although I will point out I never smacked them!) but the message with this is very clear: stop.

 

My kids won't be brought up with a very strict element of discipline in their lives, but they need to know that the potential for punishment is there if they seriously step out of line.

[Turkish]

The debate has moved about because people have responded to each other's comments - which invariably start to take a few tangents.

 

For example, one poster said: "the State has absolutely no role to play in how I bring my children up. You bring your chidren up how you want and I will bring mine up how I think is best."

 

To which I replied: "Yes, granted, but the state does have a duty - a legal obligation - to intervene when children are being abused."

 

It's a nuanced debate, but you seem to want to simplify it and reduce it to a simple black-and-white situation. And label other people to suit your own bias.

 

Is child abuse okay? No. Great, that's that done then. Can we get back to discussing if smacking if okay now?

[Turkish]

I think it's an important part of parenting. Obviously it shouldn't be a frequent method of dealing with a situation, but if my parents ever gave me a bit of a smack I knew they meant business and I would stop mucking about. Reasoning with children can be a very hard thing (believe me, I was a babysitter for several years in my teens and had to deal with some proper little sh!ts - although I will point out I never smacked them!) but the message with this is very clear: stop.

 

My kids won't be brought up with a very strict element of discipline in their lives, but they need to know that the potential for punishment is there if they seriously step out of line.

 

This post pleases me. Up until now Mikey I'd imagined you as a sulky little brat regularly throwing tantrums and wailing until you got your own way. My estimation of you has gone up a notch tonight.

[SO16_Saint]

Is child abuse okay? No. Great, that's that done then. Can we get back to discussing if smacking if okay now?

 

This was, is, my point.

 

There is a distinct difference between the 2, there is. Child abuse patently isn't okay.

[Hamilton Saint]

Read them, then you'll understand.

 

I've gone back and re-read most of them, I think. I still don't understand your comment about me staying awake. Are you insulting me, or insulting him?

 

I found his posts to be interesting and wise - and in the middle of one he mentions briefly a child "responding in fear" to a form of discipline based on smacking and hitting. He doesn't talk about the child "quaking in fear". Maybe, he uses those words elsewhere. But you seem to prefer to put words in other people's mouths. and mis-characterise their true attitude by setting up a straw man you can attack.

[Turkish]

This was, is, my point.

 

There is a distinct difference between the 2, there is. Child abuse patently isn't okay.

 

It seems some people are struggling to comprehend the quite substantial difference mate.

[SuperMikey]

This post pleases me. Up until now Mikey I'd imagined you as a sulky little brat regularly throwing tantrums and wailing until you got your own way. My estimation of you has gone up a notch tonight.

 

I'm an all-round great guy.

[Turkish]

I've gone back and re-read most of them, I think. I still don't understand your comment about me staying awake. Are you insulting me, or insulting him?

 

I found his posts to be interesting and wise - and in the middle of one he mentions briefly a child "responding in fear" to a form of discipline based on smacking and hitting. He doesn't talk about the child "quaking in fear". Maybe, he uses those words elsewhere. But you seem to prefer to put words in other people's mouths. and mis-characterise their true attitude by setting up a straw man you can attack.

 

Fear isn't necessarily a bad thing though is it.

[TheCholulaKid]

I've gone back and re-read most of them, I think. I still don't understand your comment about me staying awake. Are you insulting me, or insulting him?

 

I found his posts to be interesting and wise - and in the middle of one he mentions briefly a child "responding in fear" to a form of discipline based on smacking and hitting. He doesn't talk about the child "quaking in fear". Maybe, he uses those words elsewhere. But you seem to prefer to put words in other people's mouths. and mis-characterise their true attitude by setting up a straw man you can attack.

 

You've been on this site long enough - you should have noticed by now that this is what Turkish does with a decent percentage of threads he is involved with. Some people might call it trolling. It's ****ing boring, I know that much.

[Hamilton Saint]

It seems some people are struggling to comprehend the quite substantial difference mate.

 

You're wrong there.

 

You're just not able (or willing) to follow the nuances and subtleties of the debate. Never mind.

[Hamilton Saint]

You've been on this site long enough - you should have noticed by now that this is what Turkish does with a decent percentage of threads he is involved with. Some people might call it trolling. It's ****ing boring, I know that much.

 

Yes, I know. Just wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt!

[Liquidshokk]

What about kids smacking kids?! Just seen this posted on Facebook;

 

https://fbcdn-video-a.akamaihd.net/cfs-ak-prn1/v/611141/732/3581411693187_50747.mp4?oh=1a417ada486b4c4babaec06e441ddc02&oe=5019CB20&__gda__=1343867680_23385a4e2ed3844573554f3224a223bb

Edited 2 August, 2012 by Liquidshokk

[Hamilton Saint]

What about kids snacking kids?! Just seen this posted on Facebook;

 

https://fbcdn-video-a.akamaihd.net/cfs-ak-prn1/v/611141/732/3581411693187_50747.mp4?oh=1a417ada486b4c4babaec06e441ddc02&oe=5019CB20&__gda__=1343867680_23385a4e2ed3844573554f3224a223bb

 

Kids snacking kids! Now you're talking!