Ryanair very dangerous behaviour

[Saint in Paradise]

Could have led to a fatal crash over the Atlantic if the elevator of the 767 had been damaged a bit more. Being hit by turbulence during the flight

could have caused further damage and then there would have been a big splash.

 

 

"An American Airlines Boeing 767-300, registration N366AA performing flight AA-67 from Barcelona,SP (Spain) to New York JFK,NY (USA), had taxied to the holding point runway 25L and was holding short of the runway.

 

A Ryanair Boeing 737-800, registration EI-EKB performing flight FR-8136 from Barcelona,SP (Spain) to Ibiza,SP (Spain) with 169 passengers and 6 crew, was taxiing along Barcelona's taxiway K for departure from runway 25L and was maneouvering to pass behind the Boeing 767-300.

 

A number of passengers on board of the Boeing 737-800 observed the right hand wing of the aircraft contact the tailplane of the Boeing 767-300 and rose out of their seats attracting the attention of a flight attendant. A passenger told the flight attendant, that their aircraft had hit the aircraft besides them. The flight attendant contacted the purser, who instructed her to contact the flight deck, she contacted the flight deck and informed the captain that passengers had seen their aircraft had hit another aircraft. The captain responded however everything was fine and she continued with the takeoff about 2 minutes after the Boeing 767.

 

Immediately after departure the passengers insisted the flight was not safe and they had collided with another aircraft, one of the passengers identified himself as an engineer. The flight attendant told the engineer that the captain had been informed and had told everything was fine. No further information was forwarded to the flight deck.

 

it was identified that the right hand winglet of the Boeing 737-800 had received damage, the Boeing 767-300 was found with damage to the left hand stabilizer following landing in New York."

 

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=45363621&opt=0

[melmacian_saint]

That damage picture seems slightly suspicious...

 

Also it's a bit weird that nothing was noted on the AA plane, especially when it's that kind of damage in one of the main parts of the plane. Not fair to speculate, but it's pretty easy to create a story like this about two airlines that, with different backgrounds to it (one because of its philosophy, the other one because of financial trouble), have a strong cost-cutting approach to business.

 

 

Like I said very suspicious incident and reporting. If true however, I wonder if those Ryanair pilots weren't recklessly rushing their way down the taxiway for take-off to avoid a whipping by their senior directors for a horrific 3 minute delay, probably not related with their actions. O'Leary needs to have a cup of tea every now and then.

[Saint in Paradise]

melmacian saint, it is a legal requirement to report any collision at once to ATC etc and both planes must be inspected by engineers before being allowed to fly.

 

The captain was demoted back to a FO and Ryanair use this situation in crew training now so in the end Ryanair appear to have recognised how dangerous that incident was.

 

According to the official report:

 

"The FA seems to have been unaware of the safety implications of the information she was providing. First, she rang only once, instead of the three times that,

as stated by the flight crew, are procedurally required if a condition poses a threat to safety. As the captain noted, this predisposed her to not place too much

importance on the report. Secondly, the FA began her report with "I'm sorry to bother you, I know I'm not supposed to ...", as she stated, or with "For your

information only", according to the captain's statement. In any event, either expression indicates hesitation regarding whether or not she should have interrupted

the pilots' activities with this report.

 

Another indication of the poor communication is the fact that when recounting her conversation with the captain, the FA described the captain's explanation as

involving "aviation terminology", which suggests that the FA was not familiar with the language used by the pilot.

 

The fact that the captain believed only one passenger, and not several, had reported the collision is further proof of this miscommunication and proved critical to

her assessment of the situation, as she herself stated."

[derry]

melmacian saint, it is a legal requirement to report any collision at once to ATC etc and both planes must be inspected by engineers before being allowed to fly.

 

The captain was demoted back to a FO and Ryanair use this situation in crew training now so in the end Ryanair appear to have recognised how dangerous that incident was.

 

According to the official report:

 

"The FA seems to have been unaware of the safety implications of the information she was providing. First, she rang only once, instead of the three times that,

as stated by the flight crew, are procedurally required if a condition poses a threat to safety. As the captain noted, this predisposed her to not place too much

importance on the report. Secondly, the FA began her report with "I'm sorry to bother you, I know I'm not supposed to ...", as she stated, or with "For your

information only", according to the captain's statement. In any event, either expression indicates hesitation regarding whether or not she should have interrupted

the pilots' activities with this report.

 

Another indication of the poor communication is the fact that when recounting her conversation with the captain, the FA described the captain's explanation as

involving "aviation terminology", which suggests that the FA was not familiar with the language used by the pilot.

 

The fact that the captain believed only one passenger, and not several, had reported the collision is further proof of this miscommunication and proved critical to

her assessment of the situation, as she herself stated."

 

Ian, as a retired 767-300 pilot (also 737) with 18000+ hours this report just typifies the Airlines cut corner attitude, and reflects the arrogance and driving force of the CEO. If there is ever a major crash which is survivable, similar to the BMA 737 crash on the M1 at Kegworth in 1989, by any of the low cost carriers that carry the bulk of the passengers baggage in the overhead bins nobody will survive. In the BMA crash every overhead bin except the front right one attached to the front bulkhead detached and fell on the passengers. The reason the survivors were able to get out, was that most of the bins were lightly loaded and the aircraft wasn't full. Another thing to note, is that all the seats of the fuselage that was sitting the right way up, that weren't over the wing, detached from the floor. So the scenario of heaps of seats, attached to passengers, covered in heaps of overhead bins full of luggage on top, doesn't need a lot of imagination to visualise the result. All the passengers in these seats had multiple fractures and skull injuries.

 

 

This is the best reason to avoid airlines that cut corners and carry the baggage in the cabin. The Captain should have had her licence revoked. What she did was criminal. A friend of mine died in the 1976 Dan Air 707 freighter crash at Lusaka when the stabiliser failed due to fatigue when the final landing flap was selected at about 600ft. That is what could have happened to the 767.

Edited 30 July, 2012 by derry

[dune]

I have made the mistake of booking to fly with easy jet. I didn't realise until the other day that they do not allocate seats and instead it is a free for all. I've now got to pay 20 quid person for speedy boarding to avoid the scrum. Never again.

[Lighthouse]

That damage picture seems slightly suspicious...

 

Also it's a bit weird that nothing was noted on the AA plane, especially when it's that kind of damage in one of the main parts of the plane. Not fair to speculate, but it's pretty easy to create a story like this about two airlines that, with different backgrounds to it (one because of its philosophy, the other one because of financial trouble), have a strong cost-cutting approach to business.

 

 

Like I said very suspicious incident and reporting. If true however, I wonder if those Ryanair pilots weren't recklessly rushing their way down the taxiway for take-off to avoid a whipping by their senior directors for a horrific 3 minute delay, probably not related with their actions. O'Leary needs to have a cup of tea every now and then.

 

No.

 

They were approaching the end of a taxiway and trying to possition themselves around the 767 to an adjacent holding point. The taxi from the Ryanair terminal in Barcelona to the holding point of runway 25L is notorious for being very long, as you have to circumnavigate the whole of RW25R and normally are not allowed just to cross it. It's also a busy airport which often involved waiting behind 3 or 4 aircraft before you are allowed to depart. As such long delays are expected and built into the scheduled flight times.

 

In any case, Ryanair's on time departures are judged on what time they push back, not what time they take off. If they left the gate on time, the time they take off is largely irrelevant.

[Lighthouse]

I will add that generally the training at Ryanair is very good and I wouldn't have any worries about 99% of their pilots. However what this woman thought she was doing taking off after colliding with another aircraft I'll never know.

[Saint in Paradise]

Thanks Derry for your input.

 

I may well be wrong but I thought Ryanair are very keen on pilots paying for their own training.

[Lighthouse]

If by keen you mean mandatory then yes. Your average new recruit at Ryanair will be £100k in debt and earning about £32k a year.

[derry]

Thanks Derry for your input.

 

I may well be wrong but I thought Ryanair are very keen on pilots paying for their own training.

 

The better airlines pay for everything. Paying for training, uniforms, simulators etc has crept in at certain low cost airlines. I was lucky and only worked for proper airlines.

[This Charming Man]

I have made the mistake of booking to fly with easy jet. I didn't realise until the other day that they do not allocate seats and instead it is a free for all. I've now got to pay 20 quid person for speedy boarding to avoid the scrum. Never again.

 

Speedy boarding is a waste of money. I normally end up sat next to or behind the mugs that forked out £20 for it.

[buctootim]

Speedy boarding is a waste of money. I normally end up sat next to or behind the mugs that forked out £20 for it.

 

Ryanaor or easyjet are okay if you are travelling alone (or dont need to sit with the people you are travelling with) and carrying a small bag. If you pay for speedy boarding, check in a bag and drink a coffee on the flight you would have been better off going with BA or one of the full service airlines.

[The9]

Speedy boarding is a waste of money. I normally end up sat next to or behind the mugs that forked out £20 for it.

 

Depends how keen you are to stand up for an hour before your flight due to other non-priority people panicking and queueing an hour before departure. Viz RyanAir Arrecife - Bournemouth 3 weeks ago, when our £10 priority booking was worth about 50 minutes of not standing in a queue, better customer service from the staff, and additional legroom due to pre-booking the seats over the wing.

 

If you're travelling on your own, great, sit down and join the back of the queue, worst case scenario you'll be next to a fat obnoxious pikey and your bag will be at the other end of the plane - but if you're in a couple and want to be sure of sitting together, or want the extra legroom, priority is a must, especially on RyanAir.

 

As for their "bing bong, another on time RyanAir flight" their success stats seem to be based on unfeasibly long flight times being given to begin with. They had to go some to get us to Arrecife AN HOUR ahead of schedule over the course of a "four" hour flight that's only ever taken 3.5 hours when I've done it before. I'm sure there are people who know more about it that me on here, but it can't just be favourable winds ?

[dune]

Speedy boarding is a waste of money. I normally end up sat next to or behind the mugs that forked out £20 for it.

 

Will avoid it then. I take it you have to be at the boarding gate early then to avoid having to sit next to strangers?

[View From The Top]

I have made the mistake of booking to fly with easy jet. I didn't realise until the other day that they do not allocate seats and instead it is a free for all. I've now got to pay 20 quid person for speedy boarding to avoid the scrum. Never again.

 

If you're flying by yourself what does it matter where you are sat?

 

Never bought express boarding for the dozens of Ryanair/Easyjet flights I've made. The plane ain't going nowhere until I'm on anyway.

[View From The Top]

Will avoid it then. I take it you have to be at the boarding gate early then to avoid having to sit next to strangers?

 

You travelling alone or in a group?

[The9]

If you're flying by yourself what does it matter where you are sat?

 

Never bought express boarding for the dozens of Ryanair/Easyjet flights I've made. The plane ain't going nowhere until I'm on anyway.

 

Like I said, if you're on your own it's not really required. I'm a fan of waiting for the queue to disappear myself. Not everyone is as patient, as comfortable a flier, or as unbothered who they sit next to though (i.e. the wife).

[View From The Top]

Like I said, if you're on your own it's not really required. I'm a fan of waiting for the queue to disappear myself. Not everyone is as patient, as comfortable a flier, or as unbothered who they sit next to though (i.e. the wife).

 

I still do it when it is all 5 of us. People get turfed about so we can sit the kids with a parent

 

When I'm on my own I just carry on with my book & a brew until the queue has gone.

[dune]

Ryanaor or easyjet are okay if you are travelling alone (or dont need to sit with the people you are travelling with) and carrying a small bag. If you pay for speedy boarding, check in a bag and drink a coffee on the flight you would have been better off going with BA or one of the full service airlines.

 

I like to have a meal on the plane and all that, and after booking with easyjet found it was no more expensive for the route i'm taking with BA. I'll use them or Monarch (who I like) in the future. After reading The9's comments then i'm gonna reluctantly stump up for speedy boarding. F/ck having to queue up at the gate ridiculously early.

[dune]

You travelling alone or in a group?

 

group

[View From The Top]

group

 

They'll be the usual mass scramble & then you'd end up sat together anyway.

[moonraker]

Speedy boarding is a waste of money. I normally end up sat next to or behind the mugs that forked out £20 for it.

 

What happens if everyone on the flight purchases speedy boarding?

[Whitey Grandad]

What happens if everyone on the flight purchases speedy boarding?

There's a big queue.

[derry]

What happens if everyone on the flight purchases speedy boarding?

 

It would be like a real airline and boarding could be by rows. Only of course if somebody was switched on enough to notice but I suppose with Ryanair or Ezy etc everybody would queue.

[View From The Top]

What happens if everyone on the flight purchases speedy boarding?

 

My last flight to Bergamo saw a huge speedy boarding queue. I reckon 3/4 of the flight.

 

I smiled at the mugs.

[Whitey Grandad]

The last time I flew with Easyjet two years ago the ordinary bods were queuing at the gate an hour before boarding.

[dune]

i've just been reading some reviews of this swindle. it would seem that the system works ok unless you are bussed to the plane. do they use buses at Gatwick?

[Thedelldays]

i've just been reading some reviews of this swindle. it would seem that the system works ok unless you are bussed to the plane. do they use buses at Gatwick?

 

No. Don't think so. It's a proper airport

[Whitey Grandad]

I once paid a few quid to choose my seat on a Flybe trip to Dublin. On the return there were only a handful of us on the plane and because of the lumpy weather the captain made us all sit under the wings. I never got my money back.

[Lighthouse]

It would be like a real airline and boarding could be by rows. Only of course if somebody was switched on enough to notice but I suppose with Ryanair or Ezy etc everybody would queue.

 

Speedy boaring at Ryanair doesn't guarantee a row, it just means you get a chance to eat the best meat before the rest of the hyaenas arrive.

 

Allocated seats wouldn't work with Ryanair, they rely on 25 minute turn arounds between flights. They rely on the mad rush of people trying to get seats together and queueing up half an hour before the flight.

[Thedelldays]

The only budget airline I have used is Flybe

 

No issues with them at either Glasgow, Exeter or Southampton

 

Oddly, everytime I flew from Southampton to Glasgow, I was on a jet rather than a prop plane (Exeter flights)

[View From The Top]

i've just been reading some reviews of this swindle. it would seem that the system works ok unless you are bussed to the plane. do they use buses at Gatwick?

 

No, normal boarding this end.

[Minty]

The public perception of flying is interesting these days... people who think anything over £50 is 'expensive' and haven't got a clue how their tickets are calculated and subsidised, and don't know the true costs of flying. There are good cheap deals available, but people expect the cheap deals to be the norm and then complain when it's not available. No different to many other aspects of life nowadays really, our perception of value has been massively skewed.

 

You get what you pay for. I have used Easyjet and Ryanair and it's been fine, but I know what I'm getting. But the pressure on staff and crews to minimise turnaround times and maximise revenue is starting to impinge on safety IMO. It's all very well saying that safety is paramount but human nature being what it is means that things DO get overlooked or forgotten because of the pressure that some staff feel under, not to mention an increasingly demanding public who add to that. Given a choice I would always rather pay a bit more (actually not that much more in many cases once all the charges are taken into consideration) and fly with an airline that I have a bit more confidence and respect for.

[Minty]

i've just been reading some reviews of this swindle. it would seem that the system works ok unless you are bussed to the plane. do they use buses at Gatwick?

 

It's a few years since I was up there but there are a number of remote stands at Gatwick for which buses are used, but I don't know who routinely use them. Budget airlines tend to use remote stands most of the time but it varies airport to airport.

[The Kraken]

i've just been reading some reviews of this swindle. it would seem that the system works ok unless you are bussed to the plane. do they use buses at Gatwick?

 

Contrary to previous answers, I've been bussed to the plane when flying with EasyJet from Gatwick; so yes, it does happen. Sometimes what they'll do is let the priority boarders onto the bus first and get you to stand at the front. On arrival at the plane they then open the front doors first, so it kind of works.

 

In any case, I've given up paying for priority boarding. There's no real need, and even if you are sat on your own its only for an hour or so, just read a book or the paper until you get there.

[View From The Top]

With all the add ons it's now gotten to the stage where it's cheaper, when we have the tribe with us, to fly BA etc than any of the budget airlines.

[Minty]

With all the add ons it's now gotten to the stage where it's cheaper, when we have the tribe with us, to fly BA etc than any of the budget airlines.

 

My point exactly.

[Patrick Bateman]

I hate low cost carriers with a passion. I only ever fly BA.

[dune]

No, normal boarding this end.

 

The thing is one member of my group has bad arthritis (is a blue badge holder) and although can walk would easily be knocked over if people start shoving to get past and for this reason the scramble sounds dangerous to me. I wish i'd known about all this crap before i booked with them.

[This Charming Man]

Will avoid it then. I take it you have to be at the boarding gate early then to avoid having to sit next to strangers?

 

There's the usual mongs who start queueing the second the gate is announced. Just get yourself a seat near the gate doors and then just join the bundle right at the front when they commence boarding. I fly regularly with budget airlines and this tactic never fails me.

[The9]

What happens if everyone on the flight purchases speedy boarding?

 

RyanAir have two tiers, "priority booking" and "reserved seat". If you pay to reserve a seat you get priority chucked in, but you can just pay priority. There are a very limited number of reserved seats (basically all of the emergency rows). I assume priority boarding is also limited, but not sure.

 

There are two VERY well defined queues, plenty of people without priority snarking about it, and I suspect anyone trying to jump in the front of the pack after Priority have boarded wouldn't make it as far as the plane.

Edited 30 July, 2012 by The9

[derry]

It's a few years since I was up there but there are a number of remote stands at Gatwick for which buses are used, but I don't know who routinely use them. Budget airlines tend to use remote stands most of the time but it varies airport to airport.

 

At LGW at busy times flights are delayed for slots/technical/pax reasons and don't vacate the allocated gate for the next inbound so unless there is a gate change and airlines/handling agents tend to use specific areas/gates, the incoming aircraft is sent to the remote/bussed stand. Therefore it has to depart from that stand. Happens a lot about 0700ish when there are a lot of early departures and inbounds.

[dune]

With all the add ons it's now gotten to the stage where it's cheaper, when we have the tribe with us, to fly BA etc than any of the budget airlines.

 

I've found this since making the booking, which annoys me because i'm usually good at organising such things. What did it was BMI Bady going out of business and the subsequent rush to reorganise flights.

[View From The Top]

The thing is one member of my group has bad arthritis (is a blue badge holder) and although can walk would easily be knocked over if people start shoving to get past and for this reason the scramble sounds dangerous to me. I wish i'd known about all this crap before i booked with them.

 

I would check on their website as those passengers usually get priority. Seen it plenty of times with Ryanair for example.

[Give it to Ron]

Flew with Ryanair last week - all the people that paid got on the plane behind us tight gits.

We sat together there and back - the people that paid from Tenerife queued longer than we did as

the dispatcher or whatever didnt unlock their gate.

[Minty]

The thing is one member of my group has bad arthritis (is a blue badge holder) and although can walk would easily be knocked over if people start shoving to get past and for this reason the scramble sounds dangerous to me. I wish i'd known about all this crap before i booked with them.

 

I would contact the airline and ask for assistance ASAP. Never needed or used it myself but always better to sort this sort of thing out in advance if possible, and not wait until you're at the airport.

[SNSUN]

I have made the mistake of booking to fly with easy jet. I didn't realise until the other day that they do not allocate seats and instead it is a free for all. I've now got to pay 20 quid person for speedy boarding to avoid the scrum. Never again.

 

I would never fly EasyJet or Ryanair, too many bad stories from friends. Strangely though I don't have a problem with Thomson, First Choice or Thomas Cook flights. I'm off to Cyprus to my Dad's place in September, and Thomas Cook was by far the cheapest flights I found, and they do a bundle too, which includes a meal, allocated seats and 20kgs of luggage in the hold. Good value it was, and cheaper than Easyjet or Ryanair once you've added on all their extras.

[The9]

Can we start a rant about airport car parking now as well please ?

 

£2.50 just to drop off at Bournemouth, £2 to do so at Leeds-Bradford - including disabled / blue badge holders.

 

Southampton is still free for a 10 min drop off, but they're already directing people into the ground floor of the multi-storey car park behind the barriers, so it's a matter of time before they start charging as well.

 

It's just extortion, why the hell should you have to pay just because someone has decided you can't turn around on what might be a public highway and the only route within half a mile forces you into a car park ?

[This Charming Man]

Can we start a rant about airport car parking now as well please ?

 

£2.50 just to drop off at Bournemouth, £2 to do so at Leeds-Bradford - including disabled / blue badge holders.

 

Southampton is still free for a 10 min drop off, but they're already directing people into the ground floor of the multi-storey car park behind the barriers, so it's a matter of time before they start charging as well.

 

It's just extortion, why the hell should you have to pay just because someone has decided you can't turn around on what might be a public highway and the only route within half a mile forces you into a car park ?

 

There would be no point in charging to drop off at Southampton as people would then just start getting picked up/dropped off at the entrance to Parkway station, then just cross over the bridge.

[dune]

I would check on their website as those passengers usually get priority. Seen it plenty of times with Ryanair for example.

 

There is that, but the person is quite independent and doesn't require a wheel chair, just not to be cajoled in a scramble. Have bitten the bullet and paid the speedy boarding fee's.

 

Do you just show the booking confirmation email (it doesn't say nothing about it on the boarding passes i've printed out)?