Lack of quality activity...

[Dig Dig]

I disagree. I believe we are happy to grab the Premier money and accept relegation before building again in the NPC. I have been convinced for a long time that we will employ the yoyo strategy !

 

I know that you are just a WUM. Everyone knows it.

 

But answer this.....why on earth would any club purposely adopt a "yoyo" strategy?

[Dalek2003]

You're the one who said the club was complacent and indecision will do for us! I don't particularly think they are working on a yoyo strategy as they have built up expectations for European place, but I do I think they're being unrealistic about what we can achieve.

 

Personally I'll be happy with 17th and even relegation wouldn't be a disaster, so not really that concerned. Anyway, I think we'll stay up with a couple of solid signings, but time will tell on that.

 

I think much of what we are saying is the same. I to will not be disappointed BASED ON THE LACK OF AMBITION IN THE TRANSFER MARKET. I will not be disappointed because despite all the fine words, the evidence would suggest this club will not spend to keep us in the Premier League, but by good players with potential and at a sensible price. I take my hat off to such a move and if we do go down, with money still in the bank, we can go up again but building in a sustainable way.

In this sense, the evidence points to the club adopting the 'yoyo' strategy, but I don't expect them to admit this and more likely it will be dressed and in disguise.

[The9]

If you're good enough you'll be able to adapt to an individual's qualities pretty quickly. 300 games in the champ or the prem aren't going to make you able to run any faster, or think quicker.

 

Its fair enough if you don't think the players we're signed are good enough or experienced enough, but I just don't think where you get the experience is all that relevant. Countless players have thrived in the Premier League without having played in it before.

 

I agree that experience won't make you run faster or think quicker, but already knowing what to do (ie experience) means you don't even have to work it out. The decision-making process in the Prem is split-seconds, but by definition of the leagues being meritocratic and the better players being in the higher division, it requires quicker decisions with more consequences than in the Championship.

 

Ergo, knowing what to do and not having to work it out is even more vital in the Prem than anywhere else, because those slower decisions are more likely to be punished.

 

The fact that plenty of players have thrived merely shows that they're able to compensate for that lack of experience until they're able to build up enough knowledge. It's also a lot more applicable to defensive players for whom shape and discipline are much more important than for strikers, who can get away with pretty much anything even if they ignore the system going forward.

 

Thanks for the chance to get "ergo" into a sentence, btw.

[Minty]

I'm struggling with this 'evidence' that you mention DPS... are you privy to our transfer strategy and our negotiations? Do you know who we're targeting and how things are progressing? Or do you simply mean 'based on what we know about so far'?

 

I fully accept that you're disappointed/concerned with our overall transfer work SO FAR, but to claim that this is evidence of an entire strategy is clearly incorrect... we simply cannot know what our policy is, who we've been chasing/speaking to/putting bids in for, and so at best it is only your/my/our interpretation of what has come to fruition so far.

[Turkish]

I'm struggling with this 'evidence' that you mention DPS... are you privy to our transfer strategy and our negotiations? Do you know who we're targeting and how things are progressing? Or do you simply mean 'based on what we know about so far'?

 

I fully accept that you're disappointed/concerned with our overall transfer work SO FAR, but to claim that this is evidence of an entire strategy is clearly incorrect... we simply cannot know what our policy is, who we've been chasing/speaking to/putting bids in for, and so at best it is only your/my/our interpretation of what has come to fruition so far.

 

Youre forgetting the evidence that he knows a Blackburn fan and he saw Scott Dann play a couple of times in a dreadful Blackburn team last season, because of this it means he isn't good enough for us.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I'm struggling with this 'evidence' that you mention DPS... are you privy to our transfer strategy and our negotiations? Do you know who we're targeting and how things are progressing? Or do you simply mean 'based on what we know about so far'?

 

I fully accept that you're disappointed/concerned with our overall transfer work SO FAR, but to claim that this is evidence of an entire strategy is clearly incorrect... we simply cannot know what our policy is, who we've been chasing/speaking to/putting bids in for, and so at best it is only your/my/our interpretation of what has come to fruition so far.

 

Sorry, what evidence? I never said I have any evidence have I?

[Ex Lion Tamer]

I think much of what we are saying is the same. I to will not be disappointed BASED ON THE LACK OF AMBITION IN THE TRANSFER MARKET. I will not be disappointed because despite all the fine words, the evidence would suggest this club will not spend to keep us in the Premier League, but by good players with potential and at a sensible price. I take my hat off to such a move and if we do go down, with money still in the bank, we can go up again but building in a sustainable way.

In this sense, the evidence points to the club adopting the 'yoyo' strategy, but I don't expect them to admit this and more likely it will be dressed and in disguise.

 

I do think though that if we sign a CB, LB and RM of the same standard as Clyne and Davis then we will stay up. If not we will struggle.

 

So as you say it depends how the rest of the window goes, but I think our signings have been decent so far.

[Minty]

Sorry, what evidence? I never said I have any evidence have I?

You might want to word things differently to this then:

 

I will not be disappointed because despite all the fine words, the evidence would suggest this club will not spend to keep us in the Premier League

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

You might want to word things differently to this then:

 

Sorry, I thought you meant evidence of our strategy (ie. I knew something that others didn't).

 

The evidence of who we've bought so far points to that though? We've brought in 4 players for a (reported) 10m. That points to us being low spenders, no?

[Minty]

Sorry, I thought you meant evidence of our strategy (ie. I knew something that others didn't).

 

The evidence of who we've bought so far points to that though? We've brought in 4 players for a (reported) 10m. That points to us being low spenders, no?

But you don't know who else we might be targetting, who we might also have brought in but haven't yet concluded negotiations etc?

 

That's my point... *if* the transfer window shut today, and *if* Adkins came out to say 'we got exactly who we wanted' then your judgement of our ambition might be fair enough. But the window is open for some time yet, Adkins has clearly stated that he wants more people to come in, we don't know who is being targeted or what negotiations are taking place, so none of us can possibly know what our ambition in the transfer market is at this point.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Sorry, I thought you meant evidence of our strategy (ie. I knew something that others didn't).

 

The evidence of who we've bought so far points to that though? We've brought in 4 players for a (reported) 10m. That points to us being low spenders, no?

 

According to this there are 12 clubs that have spent less than us:

 

http://www.betinf.com/england_transfer.htm

 

Plus two of our signings were out of contract so they are worth a lot more than we spent

[CanadaSaint]

Still a very high quality squad used to playing together and used to winning, which counts for a huge amount. I don't believe in a gap between lower top flight and the best of the championship generally, and think Saints' team will be one of the best to come up. People like the clearcut simple answers, which makes Reading better, and Brighton better the year before, QPR better than Norwich etc. But it's not simple and none of those things were surprising. We are a far better side than Reading, and we were far better than Brighton. We'll adapt and play better football, and most importantly require fewer changes. There's a big difference in getting a team going short term to get up and prospering longer term. Promotion can be the best team, or the most efficient team, and Reading were superbly efficient for 5 months. I'd rather have the stable team that's been steadily improving year after year myself, and definitely rather have the young championship striker who came second top scorer and has got better each year, than the high wage Russian who had a very brief spell of form for Fulham.

 

I agree with that. We need players who have proven themselves capable of competing in the PL or a system capable of being competitive there. We don't necessarily need both, as last year's new arrivals in the PL demonstrated. The teams on buying sprees face the danger of being caught between a working system and trying to bed new players into it. That can take quite a time to sort out.

 

I liked a lot of the things we saw against Ajax, and in some ways it might be a predictor of what we'll face from August 19 on. We started poorly, we figured things out fairly quickly in terms of what they were doing to us and what we need to do to them, we adjusted, and we looked much better.

 

Yes, I'm concerned about the middle of the back row but I'm far from convinced that Fonte is the lost cause that some on here see him as. He was a very good player in his early days here, but he seemed to rather lose his way. I'm struggling to remember clearly but I think his decline started at around the time that Jos arrived. It's as though two good players just might not suit eachother, in which case the arrival of one solid CD would create the potential for three different partnerships. Yes, a fast, skillful wide man on the right would be great but - after the arrival of Clyne - we did some good things down that flank against Ajax.

 

Anyway, after watching the Ajax game I think we have the system and most of the players that we need to do quite well, and we have a management team that knows how to adjust. I certainly don't feel comfortable but I'm nowhere near as concerned as some.

[Dark Munster]

I know that you are just a WUM. Everyone knows it.

 

But answer this.....why on earth would any club purposely adopt a "yoyo" strategy?

To play Devil's advocate, that's precisely what W.e're B.ottom A.gain did for years.

 

Having said that, there's no way NC will settle for that.

[toe_punt]

 

Yes, I'm concerned about the middle of the back row but I'm far from convinced that Fonte is the lost cause that some on here see him as. He was a very good player in his early days here, but he seemed to rather lose his way

Anyway, after watching the Ajax game I think we have the system and most of the players that we need to do quite well, and we have a management team that knows how to adjust. I certainly don't feel comfortable but I'm nowhere near as concerned as some.

 

Yes, he was a very good player in League 1, he was a bit of a liability in the Championship. I fear he will be a total liability in the Prem.

[Professor]

I don't understand the reaction every summer. Worrying about something you have zero control over like this seems odd anyway. Even if you could get your message to NA, is anyone really suggesting he isn't fully aware of what needs improving? ...................

Wont repeat the rest of adrian's post - will just say that I don't feel people are being critical of NA. His statements all suggest he knows exactly what he needs and in the main it seems people have been simply pointing out that Adkins own objectives seem not to have been fulfilled. This may mean that the pause in signings is not down the NA. Even if 2 CBs and a RW are signed in the next week its is already too late for Adkins to make the best use in the first weeks of the season because to that they should be here now. And until we see who is coming, if anyone, we can't judge whether the team is moving up the level that is needed.

[Saints foreva]

Clyne will be top quality. But like most full backs, he'll get destroyed defensively from time to time.

 

Jrod I'm not worried about, he's a really good player and won't be fazed at all by the top flight.

 

Just the defence that's obviously light, but that's not news to Adkins so no point worrying. They'll sign people as soon as they can but there's no point rushing it and getting someone rubbish just for the sake of it. Clubs are rarely willing to let good players go easily.

 

Assuming he is played upfront. Feel he is wasted if we play him out wide like we did vs Ajax.

 

If I'm honest I thought we would have strengthened a bit more by now. We certainly need to add some CBs and some much needed pace into the midfield.

 

Everything seems to have gone quiet at the mo, not sure if that's a good thing.

[Charlie Wayman]

Alpine. This is not like you at all. Have they put you on medication?

Consolidation is all very well at times, if you have security, but for SFC it could mean dropping back to the Championship, which is one hell of a league to get out of. We should be grasping this opportunity and learning from what clubs around us are doing. Adkins has clearly identified where he needs new players, and we've all been quoting them regularly - 2xCB, 1xLB; 1xRW; GK. The three signings made (plus a reserve GK) fall far short of those ambitions and time is getting very short. In fact its already too short to bed new players in before the first match. Must we be in the bottom 3 in Sept before anyone takes it seriously? And even then you can already hear the excuses about playing top teams. In the Prem you have to compete against every team, as QPR did at Man City onn the last day of last season.

I hope my fears are proved wrong, but I'm getting more concerned at the lack of progress.

 

Far too pessimistic. This team of ours with emphasis on youth will surprise you.

[Itchen_block4]

Assuming he is played upfront. Feel he is wasted if we play him out wide like we did vs Ajax.

 

If I'm honest I thought we would have strengthened a bit more by now. We certainly need to add some CBs and some much needed pace into the midfield.

 

Everything seems to have gone quiet at the mo, not sure if that's a good thing.

 

Rodriguez still looked dangerous out wide. Add a couple of weeks sharpness and he may well have scored a not-offside goal. To play him down the middle would mean dropping Lambert and based on last season, we'd need a very good reason to do that.

[westofshannonsaint]

here's a link to last year's thread? it's all a little bit of history repeating.

 

I think our transfer activity has been sound over the last few seasons - quality over quantity/evolution not revolution. I suspect that we will bring in one or two top quality players on loan (again). Hopefully along with a couple of more permanent signings.

[Amazing Hangover]

Can't believe I'm saying this, but this coming season the money really matters, so we need to stay up.

 

The year after any relegated yo-yo will come down with double what we had.

 

Sure, agents and their teams of advisers will probably pocket 75% of the cash, but it's going to make getting out of the championship much, much harder.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

So, another few days gone and nothing.

 

I assume people are starting to come round to my way of thinking?

[hypochondriac]

So, another few days gone and nothing.

 

I assume people are starting to come round to my way of thinking?

 

We really need to get a cb in this week.

[Minty]

So, another few days gone and nothing.

 

I assume people are starting to come round to my way of thinking?

 

Not me. For all we know, progress may have been made behind the scenes, just nothing in public yet. Or, perhaps nothing has happened at all. I don't know. Adkins said they were looking to get players in and that's good enough for me.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I've seen that Wigan are interested in Walter Gargano. That would be an immense signing if they pick him up.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Not me. For all we know, progress may have been made behind the scenes, just nothing in public yet. Or, perhaps nothing has happened at all. I don't know. Adkins said they were looking to get players in and that's good enough for me.

 

We'd have heard about progress. Every signing we've made this year we've known about a long way ahead of them signing.

[hypochondriac]

We'd have heard about progress. Every signing we've made this year we've known about a long way ahead of them signing.

 

And last year with exception of jos.

[Minty]

We'd have heard about progress. Every signing we've made this year we've known about a long way ahead of them signing.

 

Maybe. Maybe not. None of us can say with any kind of authority.

 

Personally I think there's little point in worrying about it, or using it as any kind of barometer for our progress.

[Dig Dig]

We really need to get a cb in this week.

 

Why this week? What about Tuesday next week?

[hypochondriac]

Why this week? What about Tuesday next week?

 

I think that after this week they may be problems with getting whoever they are integrated into the team for the start of the season.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

And last year with exception of jos.

 

Yep, that one really was out of nowhere, but I get the idea that was due to it being last minute though, which of course it was.

[Dig Dig]

I think that after this week they may be problems with getting whoever they are integrated into the team for the start of the season.

 

Yes the earlier the better of course but this problem isn't reserved exclusively for Saints. Most clubs are still trying to bring players in and I can see lots of late deals for everyone this year, especially with the Euros and the Olympics.

 

I won't worry until the end of the transfer deadline day. We're not going to be relegated by 1st Sept after all.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Yes the earlier the better of course but this problem isn't reserved exclusively for Saints. Most clubs are still trying to bring players in and I can see lots of late deals for everyone this year, especially with the Euros and the Olympics.

 

I won't worry until the end of the transfer deadline day. We're not going to be relegated by 1st Sept after all.

 

But it's bad preparation, and we have had time since the end of last season to try to get deals done. We need to hit the ground running to be able to stay up this season, and it just seems to me that the preparation has not taken place, and the lack of urgency is worrying.

[Minty]

All the planning and preparation in the world can't guarantee signings. Dig Dig is right, of course, ideally the sooner players are signed the better but to suggest that just because they haven't yet is 'bad preparation' or that there is a 'lack of urgency' is rather harsh IMO... we simply don't know what has been happening and this is just one of many possible conclusions.

[Dig Dig]

But it's bad preparation, and we have had time since the end of last season to try to get deals done. We need to hit the ground running to be able to stay up this season, and it just seems to me that the preparation has not taken place, and the lack of urgency is worrying.

 

 

1) We have got deals done since the end of last season

2) You have no idea about the number of players we have been enquiring about

3) You have no idea of the sense of urgency. Maybe it's not in line with your expectations but desire to sign the right players will still be there...NA has said plenty of times that we WILL bring players in

4) You don't know that we will need to hit the ground running to stay up, that's just speculation.

5) We're no different to anyone else

[St.Patrik]

As usual all deals will done last day of the window at 16.55 - the 31/8 is a friday so I guess the deadline is 17.00 and not midnight?

[buctootim]

As usual all deals will done last day of the window at 16.55 - the 31/8 is a friday so I guess the deadline is 17.00 and not midnight?

 

You think the PL officials are more likely to work till midnight on a Thursday than a Friday? "I'm sorry Mr Ferguson, the Rooney transfer cant go through as I'm getting a curry and watching Shrek on DVD tonight".

[Rut]

here's a link to last year's thread? it's all a little bit of history repeating.

 

I think our transfer activity has been sound over the last few seasons - quality over quantity/evolution not revolution. I suspect that we will bring in one or two top quality players on loan (again). Hopefully along with a couple of more permanent signings.

 

Nice one. Was just thinking 'wasn't there a thread like this from last year' with people saying that no way are we good enough to do well in the Championship.

 

Trust those in charge - based on the last couple of years they do tend to know what they are doing.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

1) We have got deals done since the end of last season

2) You have no idea about the number of players we have been enquiring about

3) You have no idea of the sense of urgency. Maybe it's not in line with your expectations but desire to sign the right players will still be there...NA has said plenty of times that we WILL bring players in

4) You don't know that we will need to hit the ground running to stay up, that's just speculation.

5) We're no different to anyone else

 

1) And? My point is not enough of a high enough quality.

2) Agreed I don't, and all I can take is looking at who we've signed,and who we've been linked with. But judging by them (which is all any of us can judge by), not good enough.

3) I do have an idea about the sense of urgency, as we haven't signed anyone of note at CB and we're playing the Premiership Champions in less than 2 weeks.

4) No I don't, but that's such a subjective thing based on so many factors that anything in football matches is pure speculation.

5) Reading seemed to have got their business done pretty sharpish, and I'd say they are a proper rival, so I wouldn't say everyone is the same as it's not even true for our rivals.

[buctootim]

Obviously its better if all your targets go through and are completed on the first day of the window. Trouble is many are like buying a house - there is a whole chain of people who need to get their own move sorted first and you have to wait. Sometimes the chains collapse andf you have to start over. I wont be unduly worried unless the window closes and we still dont have a couple of CBs and a LM in - and even then no doubt NA will pick up a good loan with a view to buy.

Edited 6 August, 2012 by buctootim

[Saint Charlie]

1) And? My point is not enough of a high enough quality.

2) Agreed I don't, and all I can take is looking at who we've signed,and who we've been linked with. But judging by them (which is all any of us can judge by), not good enough.

3) I do have an idea about the sense of urgency, as we haven't signed anyone of note at CB and we're playing the Premiership Champions in less than 2 weeks.

4) No I don't, but that's such a subjective thing based on so many factors that anything in football matches is pure speculation.

5) Reading seemed to have got their business done pretty sharpish, and I'd say they are a proper rival, so I wouldn't say everyone is the same as it's not even true for our rivals.

 

 

Reading have done a similar amount of business to us and they are now finished for transfers according to their Manager.

 

Can't imagine our fans being happy if our CBs for the Prem were Pearce, Mariappa, Gorkss etc.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Reading have done a similar amount of business to us and they are now finished for transfers according to their Manager.

 

Can't imagine our fans being happy if our CBs for the Prem were Pearce, Mariappa, Gorkss etc.

 

They haven't done a similar amount, they've brought in 6 players to our 4. If we brought in 1 decent CB and 1 RW then I'd be happy. But we haven't.

 

All 3 of those CB's are better than Fonte.

[MOSaint]

Pearce, Mariappa, Gorkss is better than Hooiveld, Fonte, Seaborne. I'd take Hooiveld over any defender at Reading, Jos aside though our options in that position don't stack up nearly as well.

[buctootim]

They haven't done a similar amount, they've brought in 6 players to our 4. If we brought in 1 decent CB and 1 RW then I'd be happy. But we haven't.

 

All 3 of those CB's are better than Fonte.

 

Yes but they've said they've finished their transfers - Adkins has said we haven't. Judge when its all complete.

[Saint Charlie]

They haven't done a similar amount, they've brought in 6 players to our 4. If we brought in 1 decent CB and 1 RW then I'd be happy. But we haven't.

 

All 3 of those CB's are better than Fonte.

 

But Adkins has clearly said we are going to bring in another CB so will be fine then.

 

And Pearce is certainly not better than Fonte. Haven't seen much of Mariappa but he was woeful against us at Vicarage Road. Have you seen a lot of him?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Yes but they've said they've finished their transfers - Adkins has said we haven't. Judge when its all complete.

 

 

But they've completed in decent time to allow the signings to bed in. The most difficult place for players to come in is in defence, and we are not giving them the time to do that. My point isn't that we won't sign anyone, it's that they won't be in time and (from my point of view) won't be of sufficient quality.

[The Kraken]

Yes but they've said they've finished their transfers - Adkins has said we haven't. Judge when its all complete.

That's not quite what Brian Mcdermott has said. Here's what he actually said:

 

"We're delighted with them. We have tried to get our business done as early as we possibly could. We finished the season quite early last season, so we're happy with what we've done.

 

"We are not overly looking now. We've got two players for each position. If something comes later on in the window that we feel is good for us, then we might do something."

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

But Adkins has clearly said we are going to bring in another CB so will be fine then.

 

And Pearce is certainly not better than Fonte. Haven't seen much of Mariappa but he was woeful against us at Vicarage Road. Have you seen a lot of him?

 

Usual highlights of Mariappa, but the fact that Newcastle wanted him last year and had a bid turned down tells me he's alright considering how good their scouting department is.

 

If you saw Pearce last year he certainly is better than Fonte.

[buctootim]

But they've completed in decent time to allow the signings to bed in. The most difficult place for players to come in is in defence, and we are not giving them the time to do that. My point isn't that we won't sign anyone, it's that they won't be in time and (from my point of view) won't be of sufficient quality.

 

I agree its preferable to get players in early. It may be that we are waiting on higher quality targets to finalise - in which case the delay is worth it over the course of a season. It might be that our primary target negotiations broke down for whatever reason. I still think we will end up with as stronger squad than Reading - for the simple reason that we are both newly promoted sides but Saints have more money.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I agree its preferable to get players in early. It may be that we are waiting on higher quality targets to finalise - in which case the delay is worth it over the course of a season. It might be that our primary target negotiations broke down for whatever reason. I still think we will end up with as stronger squad than Reading - for the simple reason that we are both newly promoted sides but Saints have more money.

 

I really do hope so, as it is quality that we need more than quantity.

[Dig Dig]

But they've completed in decent time to allow the signings to bed in. The most difficult place for players to come in is in defence, and we are not giving them the time to do that. My point isn't that we won't sign anyone, it's that they won't be in time and (from my point of view) won't be of sufficient quality.

 

 

What makes you think they won't be sufficient quality when they do come in?

 

I think everyone is in agreement that the earlier you do business the better. What I find strange is the notion that the club are in some way being complacent or lazy about it. Knowing what we know about the meticulous planning around everything else at the club, don't you find it strange that the club wouldn't be as driven and focused when it comes to something like transfers?

 

Other than Reading (and it's debatable re the quality of their signings), who else has pretty much done all their business already? It seems difficult for most teams, especially when you want a certain type of player.