Lack of quality activity...

[rshephard3]

The signings and reported intent so far do not suggest we are a club that is realistically looking to challenge at the top. The squad we are building is more 14th to 20th under the stewardship of an untested manager. It's gonna be a another relegation battle I reckon.

 

*sorry if that offends the dispositions of some on here.

 

Exactly this. It is not unreasonable to say this. If we'd spent the summer signing players like Hoilett, Lens etc you could positively see the ambition oozing out of the club. But we haven't. Which is fine. But noone should be under any illusions about this team-they will do damn well to stay in the division.

[dune]

Exactly this. It is not unreasonable to say this. If we'd spent the summer signing players like Hoilett, Lens etc you could positively see the ambition oozing out of the club. But we haven't. Which is fine. But noone should be under any illusions about this team-they will do damn well to stay in the division.

 

And the worst part is that we are likely to be bottom of the league after 4 games.

[rshephard3]

And the worst part is that we are likely to be bottom of the league after 4 games.

 

I'm not going to lie, I fully expect a minus 4,5 or even 6 goal difference after the opener at City. Realism will quickly get scoffed at on here though. People get branded doom mongers rather than realists at an almost embarrassing frequency.

[dune]

I'm not going to lie, I fully expect a minus 4,5 or even 6 goal difference after the opener at City. Realism will quickly get scoffed at on here though. People get branded doom mongers rather than realists at an almost embarrassing frequency.

 

*destroyers of dreams* is the term used I think.

[The Kraken]

I'm not going to lie, I fully expect a minus 4,5 or even 6 goal difference after the opener at City. Realism will quickly get scoffed at on here though. People get branded doom mongers rather than realists at an almost embarrassing frequency.

 

Man City played 19 homes games last season; they won 18 and drew 1. They scored 55 goals and conceded just 12, which is close to an average of a 3-1 victory every game. Keeping the scoreline respectable is going to be an almighty challenge in itself, if we play our typical open game we could get absolutely mullered.

[CanadaSaint]

I may be wrong but I thought we had this kind of discussion last year.

 

What really matter in NA's book are things like a) dressing room chemistry, b) an ability to play in the style he wants, and c) a side that dovetails well; when it comes to Cortese, they need to fit the fiscal responsibility criterion, and not damage the wage equilibrium he's created. It's hard to argue with the outcome so far.

 

Yes, most of us would like to see some established names at PL level, but if they don't fit those criteria they'll probably cause more harm than good.

[dune]

I may be wrong but I thought we had this kind of discussion last year.

 

What really matter in NA's book are things like a) dressing room chemistry, b) an ability to play in the style he wants, and c) a side that dovetails well; when it comes to Cortese, they need to fit the fiscal responsibility criterion, and not damage the wage equilibrium he's created. It's hard to argue with the outcome so far.

 

Yes, most of us would like to see some established names at PL level, but if they don't fit those criteria they'll probably cause more harm than good.

 

Do you think Cortese is going to be a patient supportive chairman?

 

I don't.

 

I can see Adkins being sacked by Christmas tbh and if and when this happens we'll be in big trouble as I feel we'll struggle to attract a suitable replacement. Cortese is imo Lowe with knobs on.

[Give it to Ron]

Do you think Cortese is going to be a patient supportive chairman?

 

I don't.

 

I can see Adkins being sacked by Christmas tbh and if and when this happens we'll be in big trouble as I feel we'll struggle to attract a suitable replacement. Cortese is imo Lowe with knobs on.

 

Its Ok it will be time for Hoddle or Saggy to return to 'unfinished business' at their spiritual home. Now where is that Norwich nutjob.

[CanadaSaint]

Do you think Cortese is going to be a patient supportive chairman?

 

I don't.

 

I can see Adkins being sacked by Christmas tbh and if and when this happens we'll be in big trouble as I feel we'll struggle to attract a suitable replacement. Cortese is imo Lowe with knobs on.

 

He's been supportive so far, but I don't see patience as one of his virtues.

 

However, I'm sure he's very mindful of the fact that he's two years (I think) ahead of the plan that he and Markus developed, and I think he's reasonable enough to settle for survival this year.

 

He clearly has plans for expansion/improvement at every level of the club, which could take us onto a new plane.

 

Do you seriously think that a plum job like this wouldn't be highly appealing to quality managerial candidates, even with the Cortese factor considered?

[dune]

Its Ok it will be time for Hoddle or Saggy to return to 'unfinished business' at their spiritual home. Now where is that Norwich nutjob.

 

Had a text from a Forest mate last week saying they were getting Hoddle.

 

In the end they got their "big name manager" - Sean O'Driscoll.

[dune]

He's been supportive so far, but I don't see patience as one of his virtues.

 

However, I'm sure he's very mindful of the fact that he's two years (I think) ahead of the plan that he and Markus developed, and I think he's reasonable enough to settle for survival this year.

 

He clearly has plans for expansion/improvement at every level of the club, which could take us onto a new plane.

 

Do you seriously think that a plum job like this wouldn't be highly appealing to quality managerial candidates, even with the Cortese factor considered?

 

I don't think working under Cortese would be appealing to a top manager. I'm not saying one wouldn't be tempted but I think it'd soon turn sour. No disrespect to NA but he does strike me as a bit of a yes man.

[buctootim]

The signings and reported intent so far do not suggest we are a club that is realistically looking to challenge at the top. The squad we are building is more 14th to 20th under the stewardship of an untested manager. It's gonna be a another relegation battle I reckon.

 

You cant reliably build a top half team in one close season - it would mean swapping out too many players and you end up with an expensively assembled collection of players, not a team who understand and play for each. Too many clubs have tried and failed to take that shortcut. 14th, 15th ,16th is realistic - cant see us falling into the relegation places at seasons end - even if we are there after four games.

[Bucks Saint]

No disrespect to NA but he does strike me as a bit of a yes man.

 

That's actually a fair dollop of disrepect to NA.

 

No disrepect to you though

[dune]

You cant reliably build a top half team in one close season - it would mean swapping out too many players and you end up with an expensively assembled collection of players, not a team who understand and play for each. Too many clubs have tried and failed to take that shortcut. 14th, 15th ,16th is realistic - cant see us falling into the relegation places at seasons end - even if we are there after four games.

 

I agree, but we still need at least one landmark signing as more for psychological reasons as any. A signing that announces we are Southampton and we mean business. Lawrie knew how much this could boost the club.

[Bucks Saint]

You cant reliably build a top half team in one close season - it would mean swapping out too many players and you end up with an expensively assembled collection of players, not a team who understand and play for each. Too many clubs have tried and failed to take that shortcut. 14th, 15th ,16th is realistic - cant see us falling into the relegation places at seasons end - even if we are there after four games.

 

This

[Foxstone]

I don't think working under Cortese would be appealing to a top manager. I'm not saying one wouldn't be tempted but I think it'd soon turn sour. No disrespect to NA but he does strike me as a bit of a yes man.

 

Really?

 

I think compared to the majority of Chairmen/CEO's around at various clubs, he would be near the top possibly just below Dave Whelan!!

 

I mean Venky's, Randy Lerner ...etc,etc,etc anyone !!

[dune]

That's actually a fair dollop of disrepect to NA.

 

No disrepect to you though

 

Not really, he's doing what he needs to do. He's being smart. However I think there is a difference once you reach the top flight and are up against a different calibre of manager.

[This Charming Man]

That's actually a fair dollop of disrepect to NA.

 

No disrepect to you though

 

There's a reason why Cortese was so eager to get rid of Pardew and replace him with his own choice...

[dune]

Really?

 

I think compared to the majority of Chairmen/CEO's around at various clubs, he would be near the top possibly just below Dave Whelan!!

 

I mean Venky's, Randy Lerner ...etc,etc,etc anyone !!

 

Are you being serious?

 

Cortese is not in the same league as Dave Whelan, nor has his life followed Whelans. What a strange comparison Foxstone.

[buctootim]

I agree, but we still need at least one landmark signing as more for psychological reasons as any. A signing that announces we are Southampton and we mean business. Lawrie knew how much this could boost the club.

 

Thats the "give it to Le Tiss" model though. One or two great players with the rest of the teams main function being to collect the ball and give to them. It works to a degree, but I prefer the much more even spread of ability throughout the team - no obvious stars and no obvious weaknesses that the opposition can target.

[buctootim]

There's a reason why Cortese was so eager to get rid of Pardew and replace him with his own choice...

 

Pardew was his own choice.

[This Charming Man]

Pardew was his own choice.

 

Strange he would appoint someone he quite clearly disliked. Pardew was ML's appointment.

[dune]

Thats the "give it to Le Tiss" model though. One or two great players with the rest of the teams main function being to collect the ball and give to them. It works to a degree, but I prefer the much more even spread of ability throughout the team - no obvious stars and no obvious weaknesses that the opposition can target.

 

So where do you think we'd have finnished without Le Tiss?

 

I see our squad now as comparable in terms of quality of squads from that time minus Le Tiss.

[buctootim]

Strange he would appoint someone he quite clearly disliked. Pardew was ML's appointment.

 

You dont know that. The only facts are Cortese was chairman when both Pardew and Adkins were appointed. One of the rumour mills has it that it was ML who wanted Pardew gone and Cortese who resisted it.

[This Charming Man]

Thats the "give it to Le Tiss" model though. One or two great players with the rest of the teams main function being to collect the ball and give to them. It works to a degree, but I prefer the much more even spread of ability throughout the team - no obvious stars and no obvious weaknesses that the opposition can target.

 

We've relied heavily on Lambert and Lallana over the last few years and struggled without them. Every team has a player or two that is key to them.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

But we haven't signed a CB or RW yet, so how can you be unhappy with quality of our signings. Would agree that we should get a bit of a shift on with getting in a quality CB, as they take a while to settle, but that wasn't your original point. Probably agree re Keepers, but not massively bothered about having Davis instead of Gordon or McGregor. Who would you have rather we bought than Clyne, S Davis and Rodriquez?

 

Naughton, Michu and Gary Hooper. And that's just of the players we've been linked with.

[buctootim]

So where do you think we'd have finnished without Le Tiss?

 

I see our squad now as comparable in terms of quality of squads from that time minus Le Tiss.

 

For most of the time during Le Tiss' career we'd have been relegated without him. But this current team is stonger than the one which was good enough to survive for three or four years after Le Tiss had either retired or was fading fast physically.

[dune]

At the end of the day I think it's better to compare Cortese with other bankers because that is what Cortese is. He's not in the same league as someone like Bod Diamond who is top class. What he's got which I don't think Cortese has got is natural people skills. And any CEO that doesn't possess the full arsenal of weaponry isn't the real deal.

[This Charming Man]

You dont know that. The only facts are Cortese was chairman when both Pardew and Adkins were appointed. One of the rumour mills has it that it was ML who wanted Pardew gone and Cortese who resisted it.

 

So ML wanted him gone, Cortese resisted and fought his corner. The second ML passed away, Cortese sacked him.

 

Riiiight....

[The Kraken]

So where do you think we'd have finnished without Le Tiss?

 

I see our squad now as comparable in terms of quality of squads from that time minus Le Tiss.

Blimey, that's pretty harsh, June.

 

Have a look at the team that thumpred Man United 6-3, it made me laugh how mad it was:

Dave Beasant, Richard Dryden, Claus Lundekvam, Ulrich van Gobbel, Simon Charlton (Graham Potter 70), Jason Dodd, Alan Neilson (Jim Magilton 75) Matthew Oakley, Eyal Berkovic, Matt Le Tissier (Gordon Watson), Egil Østenstad.

[dune]

So ML wanted him gone, Cortese resisted and fought his corner. The second ML passed away, Cortese sacked him.

 

Riiiight....

 

[buctootim]

We've relied heavily on Lambert and Lallana over the last few years and struggled without them. Every team has a player or two that is key to them.

 

Agree totally we've over relied on Lambert and Lallana and struggled without them. That is being addressed - Sharp, Lee and Rodriguez are much stronger than Papa Waigo, Paul Wotton and Simon Gillett. Its not the finished article by a long way, but I like the approach of having goals coming from a much larger number of players - its makes it harder to mark teams out of the game.

[dune]

Blimey, that's pretty harsh, June.

 

Have a look at the team that thumpred Man United 6-3, it made me laugh how mad it was:

Dave Beasant, Richard Dryden, Claus Lundekvam, Ulrich van Gobbel, Simon Charlton (Graham Potter 70), Jason Dodd, Alan Neilson (Jim Magilton 75) Matthew Oakley, Eyal Berkovic, Matt Le Tissier (Gordon Watson), Egil Østenstad.

 

To be fair going forward that was a quality side when they were all on form as they were that day.

[buctootim]

So ML wanted him gone, Cortese resisted and fought his corner. The second ML passed away, Cortese sacked him.

 

Riiiight....

 

 

 

Very good. You have comprehended the point of the post, congrats. The rumour mill is an unreliable guide to what happens at the club.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

It doesn't sound like that. I 'misunderstood' because I see a quality squad signing quality players and someone creating a thread about a lack of quality signings.

 

So I associate it with the sort of fan who wants his club to sign Joey Barton, Shaun Wright-Phillips or Anton Ferdinand. If that's wrong then sorry. But in that case I even less understand what you're on about. We've signed player linked with far bigger clubs, with big reputations already and growing. A Ranger captain when we needed extra quality in midfield, one of the top up and coming right backs in the country when we needed a new right back, and the best young striker in the Championship who has improved every season. I do not understand what you want. We clearly want players who'll play together a few years and create a team rather than short term options. Someone mentioned clubs doing well first season and then struggling, well what better reason to build for longer-term? Even if they leave you have far more chance of a good resale value.

 

We clearly haven't finished signing people anyway. If you're expecting really top players who'd command huge wages I think you'll be disappointed. I think we're going for improvement every season, players getting better, the team getting better. Clubs obsessed with the short term and throwing money at it don't last long even if it appears to work for a while.

 

Again, I couldn't have wished for better signings for the RB and striker slot and was delighted and surprised we'd got Clyne and Rodriguez. To be in the position to attract those players and build a quality side in the top flight is fantastic. It's really hard to be that worried after all that happened after 2005.

 

Rodriguez and Clyne were linked with better clubs, but not as first team players, as prospects. There was no way Rodriguez was going to replace Jelavic, or Clyne go straight into the United side. However, we have bought these players as first teamers. They may be great in a few years, but we're gambling.

 

I'm not saying I want players with bigger reputations. However, I would like players with quality. Michu went to Swansea for £2m. £2m!! Anyone who watched him last season will realise how good this guy is. He is proven quality, was on small wages and should have been bought. The same could be said about Diame, Maiga etc. We should try for N'Zonzi. Jonathon De Guzman is quality. All lesser known players but with top quality. Geoff Cameron is a great CB, and is available for £2m.

[dune]

Very good. You have comprehended the point of the post, congrats. The rumour mill is an unreliable guide to what happens at the club.

 

Well if there's no substance to it you must concede it's very coincidental.

[The Kraken]

To be fair going forward that was a quality side when they were all on form as they were that day.

Oh yeah, up front was superb. No surprise we let in 3 goals against 10 men with that rearguard and midfield though! Richard Dryden and Ulrich van Gobbel FFS!

[dune]

Oh yeah, up front was superb. No surprise we let in 3 goals against 10 men with that rearguard and midfield though! Richard Dryden and Ulrich van Gobbel FFS!

 

Around this time Mick Channon said that Saints score goals so they'll be alright.

[buctootim]

Well if there's no substance to it you must concede it's very coincidental.

 

Coincidental with what? ML dying or the 'rumoured' cpmplaints from staff about Pardew?

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Not sure what you expect, we're being linked with Lens who is top half quality without a doubt.

 

Once Rodriguez, Clyne and Davis settle we will have 3 top 10 standard PL players in our team. All 3 of those are coups for a club of our current stature.

 

I'm looking at who WHU have bought and I can't see anyone of any note, Reading have kind of followed the same route as us but lesser quality. Teams like Wigan have done diddly squat.

 

Our business so far as been excellent, if you're not pleased with that then you're never going to be pleased.

 

Nailed that for me to be honest.

 

I don't really know who you would like to see that would be 'better' quality. Also, seriously, it's been how long now? 3 years? And yet this, 'we haven't been linked with anyone', stuff keeps coming up. Just because it's not in the papers, or Adkins isn't in the press talking about everyone else's players (ala Redknapp), doesn't mean anything isn't going on.

[dune]

Coincidental with what? ML dying or the 'rumoured' cpmplaints from staff about Pardew?

 

Haven't heard of any complaints from Newcastle.

[This Charming Man]

Agree totally we've over relied on Lambert and Lallana and struggled without them. That is being addressed - Sharp, Lee and Rodriguez are much stronger than Papa Waigo, Paul Wotton and Simon Gillett. Its not the finished article by a long way, but I like the approach of having goals coming from a much larger number of players - its makes it harder to mark teams out of the game.

 

Agreed there. That's something we needed to address and I like to think we have, with a decent winger still to come in.

 

The lack of goals from midfield last season could've cost us dearly if Lambert had picked up a serious injury.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Also, who did Norwich & Swansea sign last year?

 

Danny Graham? Michel Vorm (yeah turned out to be pretty good - but if we had signed him this summer he would probably be a 'lack of quality' signing), James Vaughan, Anthony Pilkington? Richie de Laet?

 

QPR brought 'quality' like Joey Barton on £70k p/w and look how it all turned out for them?

[Itchen_block4]

What proven PL players can we realistically attract/afford who can take us to the next level? There aren't many.Our targets will generally be the best of the rest who we've done some scouting on and can do a job for us. We don't need players like Anton Ferdinand, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Joey Barton etc. Players with more reputation than substance on huge salaries.Give me Rodriguez, Davis, Clyne and Gazzaniga over the sorry bunch of reputations on the slide that QPR signed any day. We'll sign 2 or 3 new players before the window closes, no need to worry there.

[buctootim]

Haven't heard of any complaints from Newcastle.

 

But we've gone big time into the sports science / performance monitoring game. There were clearly tensions between 'old school' Pardew and the expensively assembled sport science group. Add that to the 'making the cup a pririty even though we agreed it wasnt' comment and you have the basis for the disharmony allegedly. Anyway all ancient history and irrelevant now.

[This Charming Man]

Also, who did Norwich & Swansea sign last year?

 

Danny Graham? Michel Vorm (yeah turned out to be pretty good - but if we had signed him this summer he would probably be a 'lack of quality' signing), James Vaughan, Anthony Pilkington? Richie de Laet?

 

QPR brought 'quality' like Joey Barton on £70k p/w and look how it all turned out for them?

 

Please stop with the tiresome Swansea and Norwich comparisons. We're not them.

 

As I have already stated and proven, the only teams to establish themselves since promotion are those that have bought proven players who have done it at the highest level - Fulham, Sunderland and Stoke.

 

A few have yo-yo'd up and down for a few years but most are now consigned to the mid table of the NPC.

[dune]

What proven PL players can we realistically attract/afford who can take us to the next level? There aren't many.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong but aren't the Liebherr family worth a few quid? We keep hearing talk about the ambition. Well now actions need to start speaking for the words or the words are hollow.

[JPTCount]

would u be happy if we'd spent close to £60m on downing, Henderson & Carroll?

 

for the money we've spent we've done very well and have outbid teams like Everton and Fulham in the process, we are buying mid table quality imo

[Dazza82]

So ML wanted him gone, Cortese resisted and fought his corner. The second ML passed away, Cortese sacked him.

 

Riiiight....

 

 

 

How do you know that one of the last things ML said to NC wasnt get rid of Pardew?

 

 

Oh you dont.......

 

Just for the record neither do i or anyone else,But what ever the reason it has worked out the best for all concerned

[The Kraken]

What proven PL players can we realistically attract/afford who can take us to the next level? There aren't many.Our targets will generally be the best of the rest who we've done some scouting on and can do a job for us. We don't need players like Anton Ferdinand, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Joey Barton etc. Players with more reputation than substance on huge salaries.Give me Rodriguez, Davis, Clyne and Gazzaniga over the sorry bunch of reputations on the slide that QPR signed any day. We'll sign 2 or 3 new players before the window closes, no need to worry there.

You've just identified 3 players to create your argument and discounted many, many others who would be suitable to go for. Us signing Steven Davis is proof that it can happen. The "next level for us is hitting 11th - 17th in the PL, anything above that this season is wildly optimistic. As previously stated Reading have signed 3 proven PL players without breaking the bank. Matt Jarvis would be a great signing. West Ham have got Jaaskelainen on a free. Fulham have got Rodallega on a free (high wages I'm sure but negated by the lack of transfer fee). West Brom got Ben Foster for £4M, IMO a bargain for a keeper of his quality. Plenty of sides in the bottom half of the table have been in for proven PL players, so lets not pretend it can't happen without bankrupting the club, it clearly can.