Tokyo-Saint Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Staplewood (when finished) I think will be in the top 8 in the Premier League. Thanks. It is a bit of a come down from original expectations. I guess other teams have put improvement plans in place as well which bring us down a bit. I thought when the plans first came out we would be one of the few category A academy (assuming the training facilities is linked to the academy rating that is). When you say top 8, I guess you mean somewhere around 8th, so maybe 7th or even 9th. What do you other teams have planned that we are missing? Is it something serious or is it just size? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 (edited) Thanks. It is a bit of a come down from original expectations. I guess other teams have put improvement plans in place as well which bring us down a bit. I thought when the plans first came out we would be one of the few category A academy (assuming the training facilities is linked to the academy rating that is). When you say top 8, I guess you mean somewhere around 8th, so maybe 7th or even 9th. What do you other teams have planned that we are missing? Is it something serious or is it just size? "Top 8", means anywhere from 1st to 8th. It is hard to compare Staplewood to for example man Utd's. Staplewood is going to be brand new and high spec, where as Man Utd's training ground is now largely constructed 12 years ago (they have added and improved but still is largely the same). Man Utd's is larger than Staplewood, but Staplewood is more modern. At no point did I say Saints would be one of a tiny elite few with category 1 status. A number of people have confused what I said last summer. I said "as things stand with current plans only Man City, Chelsea and Saints would get category 1 status". Edited 25 July, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 We'll get Cat A status anyway I would have thought but there are a lot of teams who will get it. Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs are all better than ours I think. I would assume Liverpool, Newcastle, Everton? are all better? Possibly Villa? West Ham? I'm not sure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Shame isn't it. Turkish accuses me of lots of things, yet hijacks every thread I start. If anyone else on this forum had posted the opening post, the thread wouldn't turn out like this with Turkish jumping on them. No...but the troll would still ruin the thread, as he does with all the others! I'd place him between 8-18 years of age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Thanks. It is a bit of a come down from original expectations. I guess other teams have put improvement plans in place as well which bring us down a bit. I thought when the plans first came out we would be one of the few category A academy (assuming the training facilities is linked to the academy rating that is). When you say top 8, I guess you mean somewhere around 8th, so maybe 7th or even 9th. What do you other teams have planned that we are missing? Is it something serious or is it just size? If you havent seen it, theres some chat on the topic in this thread. http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?36684-Staplewood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITEE1987 Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 What brand of car manufacturers will we have on our new premier league bucket seats..? They arent really bucket seats they are ordinary car seats taken from a Fiat Punto from across the road at Freeborn!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 "Top 8", means anywhere from 1st to 8th. It is hard to compare Staplewood to for example Man Utd's Carrington. Staplewood is going to be brand new and high spec, where as Man Utd's training ground is now largely constructed 12 years ago. Carrington is larger than Staplewood, but Staplewood is more modern. I'm trying to turnover a new leaf with you but this kind of thing doesn't help. Usually, when people say top 8 it means somewhere around 8th. It can mean anywhere above 8 but in common vernacular it is the lowest point. For example, you would probably say Stoke are a top 8 side in a good season, meaning if the play well, they can finish anywhere between 8th and maybe 6th. Anyway, I don't want to turn this into an argument, just pointing out why people are short with you at times. Fair point about Carrington, although new does not always mean better. My gym has just had a revamp with all new machines and the old gym was 100 times better. I know new is generally better, changes in technology etc but still. What about the Stadium, If we were to improve it as per the plans you sometimes post up, where would you place us in comparison to other prem teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latter day saint Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 They arent really bucket seats they are ordinary car seats taken from a Fiat Punto from across the road at Freeborn!! my missus has a Punto & they are very comfy seats. good to know that the team will be able to relax in comfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 If you havent seen it, theres some chat on the topic in this thread. http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?36684-Staplewood Thanks, I did but it went off topic, the new topic being whether MLG is an annoying self righteous **** or if he was a misunderstood pillar of info. I thinking that the subject of new seats in the dug out was fairly limited, so maybe MLG can give his opinion on all of the improvements we were making in general (ground and training) and if these improvements would make us amongst the best in the league of if it would just bring us up to standard as the other teams were also improving. Maybe I was a bit optimistic. I might go back to the Muppet show for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Thanks, I did but it went off topic, the new topic being whether MLG is an annoying self righteous **** or if he was a misunderstood pillar of info. I thinking that the subject of new seats in the dug out was fairly limited, so maybe MLG can give his opinion on all of the improvements we were making in general (ground and training) and if these improvements would make us amongst the best in the league of if it would just bring us up to standard as the other teams were also improving. Maybe I was a bit optimistic. I might go back to the Muppet show for a bit. This forum is quickly turning into just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 (edited) I'm trying to turnover a new leaf with you but this kind of thing doesn't help. Usually, when people say top 8 it means somewhere around 8th. It can mean anywhere above 8 but in common vernacular it is the lowest point. For example, you would probably say Stoke are a top 8 side in a good season, meaning if the play well, they can finish anywhere between 8th and maybe 6th. Anyway, I don't want to turn this into an argument, just pointing out why people are short with you at times. Fair point about Carrington, although new does not always mean better. My gym has just had a revamp with all new machines and the old gym was 100 times better. I know new is generally better, changes in technology etc but still. I said top 8, rather than top 2 or top 4 because Staplewood is to a very high spec that goes over and above many of the aspects of other top Premier League training grounds, but some are bigger. It is hard to rank the top 7/8 clubs. Man City are planning to spend an absolute fortune improving theirs, so they will soon be no.1 but the rest of the top training grounds could be argued which order they fall into. What I would say is that Staplewood will better than what Villa, Everton, Newcastle, West Ham, Sunderland, West Brom, Wigan, Norwich, Reading, Swansea, QPR, Stoke and Fulham have. What about the Stadium, If we were to improve it as per the plans you sometimes post up, where would you place us in comparison to other prem teams? Well if we go by those plans (and at the moment we just have 3 pictures so not alot to go on and Buttner saying their are plans for 50k) then only Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal and maybe Newcastle would have a better stadium in England. But it is obviously hard to tell seeing as all we have is those three pictures and no internal shots or spec of the expansion and changes. Edited 25 July, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 I said top 8, rather than top 2 or top 4 because Staplewood is to a very high spec that goes over and above many of the aspects of other top Premier League training grounds, but some are bigger. It is hard to rank the top 7/8 clubs. Man City are planning to spend an absolute fortune improving theirs, so they will soon be no.1 but the rest of the top training grounds could be argued which order they fall into. What I would say is that Staplewood will better than what Villa, Everton, Newcastle, West Ham, Sunderland, West Brom, Wigan, Norwich, Reading, Swansea, QPR, Stoke and Fulham have. Well if we go by those plans (and at the moment we just have 3 pictures so not alot to go on and Buttner saying their are plans for 50k) then only Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal and maybe Newcastle would have a better stadium in England. But it is obviously hard to tell seeing as all we have is those three pictures and no internal shots or spec of the expansion and changes. Thank you for the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 The person that provided the information for the opening post says that the long term plan is for St Mary's to be expanded to 52,000 and would be done all in one go as it would work out cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 "Top 8", means anywhere from 1st to 8th. It is hard to compare Staplewood to for example man Utd's. Staplewood is going to be brand new and high spec, where as Man Utd's training ground is now largely constructed 12 years ago (they have added and improved but still is largely the same). Man Utd's is larger than Staplewood, but Staplewood is more modern. At no point did I say Saints would be one of a tiny elite few with category 1 status. A number of people have confused what I said last summer. I said "as things stand with current plans only Man City, Chelsea and Saints would get category 1 status". Well it doesn't include 1st because youve already admitted (and then tried to edit) Tottenhams is better. So its inferior to the only One we've compared it too so far. Not a great start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 The person that provided the information for the opening post says that the long term plan is for St Mary's to be expanded to 52,000 and would be done all in one go as it would work out cheaper. Great news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 The person that provided the information for the opening post says that the long term plan is for St Mary's to be expanded to 52,000 and would be done all in one go as it would work out cheaper. You have a source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Well it doesn't include 1st because youve already admitted (and then tried to edit) Tottenhams is better. So its inferior to the only One we've compared it too so far. Not a great start. I changed my mind, so edited it before you had even responded. But then you don't think I'm capable of forming an opinion, let alone changing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 You have a source? I asked the person that took those photos today in the opening post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 I asked the person that took those photos today in the opening post. Who took the photo? Was it Groundskeeper Willie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 And the biggest 'mong' is Dorkish stop it, please, too funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Who took the photo? Was it Groundskeeper Willie? Dave, who's got a City and Guilds in felt laying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Who took the photo? Someone involved with the relatively minor changes this summer. Was it Groundskeeper Willie? Dave, who's got a City and Guilds in felt laying. Umm.. no. It is responses like this that put me off sharing things that may be of interest to some people on this forum. I'm guessing The Kraken and Turkish are getting uppity because as more and more info leaks of Cortese's plans for the club their views look to be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 What I would say is that Staplewood will better than what Villa, Everton, Newcastle, West Ham, Sunderland, West Brom, Wigan, Norwich, Reading, Swansea, QPR, Stoke and Fulham have.I note that Swansea are in the news today about developing a new training complex. I also thought that Stoke's was pretty much state of the art! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggface Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 play nicely children..... and leave off mlg or i will send you all to your room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Umm.. no. It is responses like this that put me off sharing things that may be of interest to some people on this forum. I'm guessing The Kraken and Turkish are getting uppity because as more and more info leaks of Cortese's plans for the club their views look to be wrong. Whose being uppity? I was genuinely interested where you got the pictures from. And therefore how credible this source is with relation to the scale our supposed long term Cortesedome. No need to be over-sensitive about it God. Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Our grounds keeper are on twitter. Have you been speaking to them? How reliable would you say your source is? Do you believe the 52k thing? Are they in a good position to really know or is it just speculation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Someone involved with the relatively minor changes this summer. Umm.. no. It is responses like this that put me off sharing things that may be of interest to some people on this forum. I'm guessing The Kraken and Turkish are getting uppity because as more and more info leaks of Cortese's plans for the club their views look to be wrong. Quite, the felt around the pitch and new red bits on the dugouts have convinced me we are about to spend 20 million plus on extra seats and need to do it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint J 77 Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 The person that provided the information for the opening post says that the long term plan is for St Mary's to be expanded to 52,000 and would be done all in one go as it would work out cheaper. So would that mean playing elsewhere for a season, while the work was done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Our grounds keeper are on twitter. Have you been speaking to them? How reliable would you say your source is? Do you believe the 52k thing? Are they in a good position to really know or is it just speculation? Oh it's 52k now is it? It changes everytime we have this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 I note that Swansea are in the news today about developing a new training complex. I also thought that Stoke's was pretty much state of the art! "State of the art" is an often misused term. Stoke's is far from the quality that Staplewood will be. Same with Swansea, and they won't even fully own it as it is a deal with the university. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 So would that mean playing elsewhere for a season, while the work was done? Wolves knocked down a stand in May 2011 and had spectators in the lower tier of the new stand watching Premier League games in September 2011. A lot of work can be done over a summer and Saints could keep the lower tier open throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 I note that Swansea are in the news today about developing a new training complex. I also thought that Stoke's was pretty much state of the art! That's my point really. I am sure most teams say they have top facilities or have plans to get top facilities. I was wondering if we really will have a top facilities as Les Reed said on saint player or if all teams are saying this and we will just have average facilities after the revamp. Top 8 is a bit of a let down if I am honest as I believed the saints player stuff and obviously misunderstood MLG when he said about only us and Man City or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 That's my point really. I am sure most teams say they have top facilities or have plans to get top facilities. I was wondering if we really will have a top facilities as Les Reed said on saint player or if all teams are saying this and we will just have average facilities after the revamp. Top 8 is a bit of a let down if I am honest as I believed the saints player stuff and obviously misunderstood MLG when he said about only us and Man City or whatever. As I said... "State of the art" is an often misused term. Stoke's is far from the quality that Staplewood will be. Same with Swansea, and they won't even fully own it as it is a deal with the university. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Stoke's facilities weren't great to start with and they are only spending a little over a third of what Saints are spending. http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/stoke-announce-6m-training-ground-expansion.html For them to label it "state of the art" is misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Quite, the felt around the pitch and new red bits on the dugouts have convinced me we are about to spend 20 million plus on extra seats and need to do it right now. £20M for 20,000 extra seats? I'd bite your hand off for that price. According to Lowe/Cowan's previous price estimates it was £3,000 per extra seat. Wolves new stand was a bit cheaper, they demolished old one and built a new one, cost £18M for 7,700 seats (£2,333 per extra seat). At that price it would cost over £46M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 As I said... I know, you did it while I was typing. Stoke are trying to hype it up though. EPPP is designed to create a structure and facilities which will give English football a world-class Academy system, and we want to ensure that we are right up there with the top clubs so we can nurture the best young talent in Stoke-on-Trent and the surrounding areas, while also attracting the best young players who are available to us Out of interest, when you have to argue these things with your FM mates, how do you say "ours will be better" to the researchers from other clubs? I am sure every club, says they will be up there with the best, as Stoke have just done. I expect QPR have big plans. How do you ensure we come out on top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 £20M for 20,000 extra seats? I'd bite your hand off for that price. According to Lowe/Cowan's previous price estimates it was £3,000 per extra seat. Wolves new stand was a bit cheaper, they demolished old one and built a new one, cost £18M for 7,700 seats (£2,333 per extra seat). At that price it would cost over £46M. Do you not think Saints are fully aware of the kind of figures it would take to expand to 50k+? Despite that, they still consider such a plan worthy of continuing with and include on the season ticket DVD in its admittedly very early stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Stoke's facilities weren't great to start with and they are only spending a little over a third of what Saints are spending. http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/stoke-announce-6m-training-ground-expansion.html For them to label it "state of the art" is misleading. They are still aiming to be category one though. Maybe they got a great deal, maybe they don't need to upgrade as much as we do. Spurs are spending loads more than ours and you say there is not much in it. Maybe There won't be much in it between ours and Stokes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Do you not think Saints are fully aware of the kind of figures it would take to expand to 50k+? Despite that, they still consider such a plan worthy of continuing with and include on the season ticket DVD in its admittedly very early stages. Erm, yes. I'm sure Saints have got a very good idea of the price. Turkish seemed to have made an error in his calculations though, so I was correcting him. I was surprised you hadn't already, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Out of interest, when you have to argue these things with your FM mates, how do you say "ours will be better" to the researchers from other clubs? I am sure every club, says they will be up there with the best, as Stoke have just done. I expect QPR have big plans. How do you ensure we come out on top? A few researchers are employees of the clubs they research. They have good access to a lot of information not publicly available, for example I read the initial EPPP document last summer. I don't really need to argue my point about Saints, the academy and Staplewood with them as they are already fully aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Jonny Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 the screens needed updating, if they are anything like the ones at the Kingpower Stadium they will be sweeeeeet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 £20M for 20,000 extra seats? I'd bite your hand off for that price. According to Lowe/Cowan's previous price estimates it was £3,000 per extra seat. Wolves new stand was a bit cheaper, they demolished old one and built a new one, cost £18M for 7,700 seats (£2,333 per extra seat). At that price it would cost over £46M. Apologies yes, forgot about 3k a seat from back then. The expansion figure seems to range from anything from 40,000 to today's 52,000 so it's difficult to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 I know, you did it while I was typing. Stoke are trying to hype it up though. EPPP is designed to create a structure and facilities which will give English football a world-class Academy system, and we want to ensure that we are right up there with the top clubs so we can nurture the best young talent in Stoke-on-Trent and the surrounding areas, while also attracting the best young players who are available to us Out of interest, when you have to argue these things with your FM mates, how do you say "ours will be better" to the researchers from other clubs? I am sure every club, says they will be up there with the best, as Stoke have just done. I expect QPR have big plans. How do you ensure we come out on top? It doesn't particularly matter tbh because if Staplewood, when it's finished is officially THE BEST, somebody will come and build something better, followed by someone else, etc. etc. At least for now we're keeping up with the Jones's (although MLT says ours will be considerably better than theirs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 They are still aiming to be category one though. Maybe they got a great deal, maybe they don't need to upgrade as much as we do. Spurs are spending loads more than ours and you say there is not much in it. Maybe There won't be much in it between ours and Stokes? Exactly, we can't have it both ways, the amount spent doesn't reflect what has been improved unless we are spending it and then it does. Spurs had to buy the land, ok fine. If we knew how much that cost, even an estimate, then we could work out how much they have spent on increasing their training facilities. MLG, I am sure you could find this out if anyone can? By the way, it is sometimes good to look objectively at things, not just swallow what we are being told. This does not mean we are bad supporters. Come on take away the emotion and propaganda and let us know what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Exactly, we can't have it both ways, the amount spent doesn't reflect what has been improved unless we are spending it and then it does. Spurs had to buy the land, ok fine. If we knew how much that cost, even an estimate, then we could work out how much they have spent on increasing their training facilities. MLG, I am sure you could find this out if anyone can? By the way, it is sometimes good to look objectively at things, not just swallow what we are being told. This does not mean we are bad supporters. Come on take away the emotion and propaganda and let us know what you think. Apparently Swansea's is not very good as they don't wholly own it. Do we wholly own Staplewood now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Exactly, we can't have it both ways, the amount spent doesn't reflect what has been improved unless we are spending it and then it does. Spurs had to buy the land, ok fine. If we knew how much that cost, even an estimate, then we could work out how much they have spent on increasing their training facilities. MLG, I am sure you could find this out if anyone can? By the way, it is sometimes good to look objectively at things, not just swallow what we are being told. This does not mean we are bad supporters. Come on take away the emotion and propaganda and let us know what you think. Great post. If he did that more often there would be less mundane threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 No need to be over-sensitive about it God. Sheesh. Given the amount of bullying that goes on here perhaps it's you who should be a little more sensitive. All I can say is that it's good we're not standing still.... and struggling to find the funds to pay for some rented facilities... Right, back to the PTS thread, and thanks MLG. It's not something that's at the top of my interests, so I'm posting not so much out of interest but because I don't like bullies. If you're not interested guys, don't bother posting, it's really quite simple. Sorry The Kraken for using your post for a wider point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 What brand of car manufacturers will we have on our new premier league bucket seats..? I'm hoping for Aston Martin but expecting Austin Morris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Not sure why this thread has descended into the usual **** storm with the usual suspects. It's actually quite interesting to see what they're updating from time to time, the screens will be quality and have needed sorting out for ages. Not sure why MLG has to be ridiculed for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Not sure why this thread has descended into the usual **** storm with the usual suspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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