Saint_clark Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 With that sort of realistic outlook, Are you sure this the mong board for you sir? Who's the bigger mong, the mong who posts on a mong board or the mong who declares he's never posting again and then stumps up his fiver subscription less than a fortnight later because he's getting withdrawals? If you really have such disgust for this place, why not just leave like you said you would. Please try and keep it civil and on topic from here on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 17 th will do for me after predicting a top two finish last year. Europe will require another level of player in some positions I fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's There Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Saints proved in the Premiership last time round that they could beat anyone on their day. The difference with the bigger clubs is the CONSISTENCY and ability to cope with injuries. This time around I suspect our SQUAD will be stronnger and therefore we will be in a better position to cope- we will do better than a lot are predicting, but the asperations are vital- AIM HIGH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Saints proved in the Premiership last time round that they could beat anyone on their day. The difference with the bigger clubs is the CONSISTENCY and ability to cope with injuries. This time around I suspect our SQUAD will be stronnger and therefore we will be in a better position to cope- we will do better than a lot are predicting' date=' but the asperations are vital- AIM HIGH![/quote'] Without a doubt. Last time around our first team included the likes of Davenport and Nilsson, personally I think even our fringe players are better than those now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Who's the bigger mong, the mong who posts on a mong board or the mong who declares he's never posting again and then stumps up his fiver subscription less than a fortnight later because he's getting withdrawals? If you really have such disgust for this place, why not just leave like you said you would. Please try and keep it civil and on topic from here on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Charteris Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Such ambitions voiced by Flavio Briatore a year or two ago would have caused a great deal of mirth, I'm sure, but when it comes from Cortese it's hard to doubt his sincerity or determination. I'm just going to enjoy the ride over the next couple of season - the bus is off and gaining momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Without a doubt. Last time around our first team included the likes of Davenport and Nilsson, personally I think even our fringe players are better than those now. That's hardly a benchmark to go by, is it? Being better than the team that finished dead last. A better comparison is how we match up against the cup final side. At the moment, not all that well at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 That's hardly a benchmark to go by, is it? Being better than the team that finished dead last. A better comparison is how we match up against the cup final side. At the moment, not all that well at all. I wouldn't say that is necessarily true. We had some good players but also a lot of average players and WGS did brilliantly to squeeze every last drop out of it. The team which got relegated not long after still had many of the cup final team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 I wouldn't say that is necessarily true. We had some good players but also a lot of average players and WGS did brilliantly to squeeze every last drop out of it. The team which got relegated not long after still had many of the cup final team Compare our best team now to the cup final team at that time (i.e. the team that achieved our highest ever PL finish). It doesn't come close, perhaps only 3 players we have now would get in the cup final team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 At least try and stay on topic and not be sarcastic. Wishful thinking methinks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 That's hardly a benchmark to go by, is it? Being better than the team that finished dead last. A better comparison is how we match up against the cup final side. At the moment, not all that well at all. Far from it: Beattie or Lambert? Lambert Ormerod or Sharp? Sharp Jones or Davis? Davis (Niemi was better but 2/3 of the Cup Final) Richardson or Baird? Close, I like Baird, but Richardson is probably better attacking Lundekvam or Fonte? On the evidence of the Cup Final I'll take Fonte thanks Svensson or Hooiveld? Killer Bridge or Fox? Bridge Telfer or Guly? Guly Oakley or Cork? Oakley Spiderman or Anders? Spiderman any day (I suppose it would be fairer to compare Spiderman with Oaks) Lallana or CMFG? Lallana So as individuals I would rate 7 of 11 current team better than the Cup Final team. Admittedly Killer and Claus were better as a pairing than the individuals, and Bridge & CMFG similarly, but in truth the current team is better than that team was in reality. Difference was WGS got a bunch of ordinary players playing above their capabilities due to their fitness. I haven't even taken Jay Rod & Steve Davis into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Far from it: Beattie or Lambert? Lambert Ormerod or Sharp? Sharp Jones or Davis? Davis (Niemi was better but 2/3 of the Cup Final) Richardson or Baird? Close, I like Baird, but Richardson is probably better attacking Lundekvam or Fonte? On the evidence of the Cup Final I'll take Fonte thanks Svensson or Hooiveld? Killer Bridge or Fox? Bridge Telfer or Guly? Guly Oakley or Cork? Oakley Spiderman or Anders? Spiderman any day (I suppose it would be fairer to compare Spiderman with Oaks) Lallana or CMFG? Lallana So as individuals I would rate 7 of 11 current team better than the Cup Final team. Admittedly Killer and Claus were better as a pairing than the individuals, and Bridge & CMFG similarly, but in truth the current team is better than that team was in reality. Difference was WGS got a bunch of ordinary players playing above their capabilities due to their fitness. I haven't even taken Jay Rod & Steve Davis into account. Beattie got 23 league goals that year and you'd drop him for someone who has never played Premier League?? You obviously know your stuff. I'd give Lambert over Ormerod, but over Beattie that season?! Yeah ok pal. Similarly Fonte over Claus who had played hundreds of Prem league games, against Fonte who often looked troubled in the championship last season. And Morgan over Anders Svensson, my word. Even if you take Jones his performance top level is infinitely better than Davis. Excuse me if I completely disagree with that load of tripe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Compare our best team now to the cup final team at that time (i.e. the team that achieved our highest ever PL finish). It doesn't come close, perhaps only 3 players we have now would get in the cup final team. I'd say that morgan, Lallana, Lambert, Sharp, Lee and maybe Cork would at least compete for a place in that team. We had Ormerod and Telfer for starters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Far from it: Beattie or Lambert? Lambert Ormerod or Sharp? Sharp Jones or Davis? Davis (Niemi was better but 2/3 of the Cup Final) Richardson or Baird? Close, I like Baird, but Richardson is probably better attacking Lundekvam or Fonte? On the evidence of the Cup Final I'll take Fonte thanks Svensson or Hooiveld? Killer Bridge or Fox? Bridge Telfer or Guly? Guly Oakley or Cork? Oakley Spiderman or Anders? Spiderman any day (I suppose it would be fairer to compare Spiderman with Oaks) Lallana or CMFG? Lallana So as individuals I would rate 7 of 11 current team better than the Cup Final team. Admittedly Killer and Claus were better as a pairing than the individuals, and Bridge & CMFG similarly, but in truth the current team is better than that team was in reality. Difference was WGS got a bunch of ordinary players playing above their capabilities due to their fitness. I haven't even taken Jay Rod & Steve Davis into account. I'd disagree with a most of that. Beattie in his day was a good player for us, time will tell but I cannot see Lambert being as good at Prem level. Ormerod was also effective for us, wheras I cannot see Sharp cutting it at Prem level tbh. Lundekvam easily better than Fonte. And Lallana is a completely different player to Marsden, but Marsden was the key team player for us back then and made us tick so it's ludicrous to say Lallana is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie May Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Far from it: Beattie or Lambert? Lambert Ormerod or Sharp? Sharp Jones or Davis? Davis (Niemi was better but 2/3 of the Cup Final) Richardson or Baird? Close, I like Baird, but Richardson is probably better attacking Lundekvam or Fonte? On the evidence of the Cup Final I'll take Fonte thanks Svensson or Hooiveld? Killer Bridge or Fox? Bridge Telfer or Guly? Guly Oakley or Cork? Oakley Spiderman or Anders? Spiderman any day (I suppose it would be fairer to compare Spiderman with Oaks) Lallana or CMFG? Lallana So as individuals I would rate 7 of 11 current team better than the Cup Final team. Admittedly Killer and Claus were better as a pairing than the individuals, and Bridge & CMFG similarly, but in truth the current team is better than that team was in reality. Difference was WGS got a bunch of ordinary players playing above their capabilities due to their fitness. I haven't even taken Jay Rod & Steve Davis into account. How can you even begin to compare half of those players when some haven't experienced the highest division? Beattie consistently performed well in a Premier League team and hadn't even tasted the lower divisions. Davis was considered a liability for Sunderland (though has improved dramatically with us, albeit not in the Prem). Telfer was an honest pro who put always put in a good shift, even when he was at Premier League Coventry, and went on to play for Celtic after us. Spiderman hasn't even played for his national team, while Svensson is still the captain of his! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 I'd say that morgan, Lallana, Lambert, Sharp, Lee and maybe Cork would at least compete for a place in that team. We had Ormerod and Telfer for starters Telfer versus guly. Telfer wins hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Telfer versus guly. Telfer wins hands down. Haha. Guly wasn't in my list ; ) (he is better though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 I'd say that morgan, Lallana, Lambert, Sharp, Lee and maybe Cork would at least compete for a place in that team. We had Ormerod and Telfer for starters Baird/Richardson too close to call. Lallana over CMFG. Guly over Telfer, but Telfer only played there cup final, Fabrice Fernandes started 35 of 38 league games, I'd have him over Guly. Svensson over Cork, too close to call Schneiderlin v Oakley but I'd have Oaks experience, Morgan has more potential for the future. And I'd have Beattie and Lambert up front. All else 2003 starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Beattie got 23 league goals that year and you'd drop him for someone who has never played Premier League?? You obviously know your stuff. I'd give Lambert over Ormerod, but over Beattie that season?! Yeah ok pal. Similarly Fonte over Claus who had played hundreds of Prem league games, against Fonte who often looked troubled in the championship last season. And Morgan over Anders Svensson, my word. Even if you take Jones his performance top level is infinitely better than Davis. Excuse me if I completely disagree with that load of tripe. I missed that one. How Vectis comes to that conclusion is mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Baird/Richardson too close to call. Lallana over CMFG. Guly over Telfer, but Telfer only played there cup final, Fabrice Fernandes started 35 of 38 league games, I'd have him over Guly. Svensson over Cork, too close to call Schneiderlin v Oakley but I'd have Oaks experience, Morgan has more potential for the future. And I'd have Beattie and Lambert up front. All else 2003 starters. We have more depth now than we did then. Sharp and Lee both better than Ormerod so don't think he would even get in the bench. And as you said, a few of our players now have so much more potential than the players we had in their prime back then. After they all left, how many of the 20003 squad ended up having sparkling premier league careers? Not many. We had a very fit, very organised side and a good manager. This helped us overachieve that season. Those players could have just as easily ended up in a relegation battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 We have more depth now than we did then. Nope, I don't agree. That year's understudies were Paul Jones, Jason Dodd, Paul Williams, Kevin Davies, Marians Pahars, Rory Delap, Danny Higginbotham, David Prutton, Jo Tessem, and as I've said Fabrice Fernandes, who all for the most part appeared in ten games and upwards. Sharp and Lee both better than Ormerod so don't think he would even get in the bench. As above, Pahars played 9 games and Kevin Davies 9. We had a very fit, very organised side and a good manager. This helped us overachieve that season. Those players could have just as easily ended up in a relegation battle. Agreed. But as functional and fitness-based a team it was, there are only 3 of them that I would have subbed out for our current squad. Which kind of proves a point, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 It only proves that you believe your own point Krackers which is fair enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 It only proves that you believe your own point Krackers which is fair enough! Well I agree I'm right, so happy days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willo Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Obviously I would rather we finished 17th and not 18th, but to be honest I don't think we should see 17th as successful IF we have aspirations of becoming a solid premier league club that has an outside chance of qualifying for Europe. Why? Becaus our best players would be snapped up by other clubs (and who will probably quite like the idea of a move - who would want another relegation scrap?), plus other players we would need to progress up the league won't fancy joining us. In short, my opinion is that 17th would limit us from being anything more than a lower-half prem team at best and a yo-yo club at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Well I agree I'm right, so happy days! It's all we've got although I was waiting for MLG to come and trump you with some Opta stats or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Far from it: Beattie or Lambert? Lambert Ormerod or Sharp? Sharp Jones or Davis? Davis (Niemi was better but 2/3 of the Cup Final) Richardson or Baird? Close, I like Baird, but Richardson is probably better attacking Lundekvam or Fonte? On the evidence of the Cup Final I'll take Fonte thanks Svensson or Hooiveld? Killer Bridge or Fox? Bridge Telfer or Guly? Guly Oakley or Cork? Oakley Spiderman or Anders? Spiderman any day (I suppose it would be fairer to compare Spiderman with Oaks) Lallana or CMFG? Lallana So as individuals I would rate 7 of 11 current team better than the Cup Final team. Admittedly Killer and Claus were better as a pairing than the individuals, and Bridge & CMFG similarly, but in truth the current team is better than that team was in reality. Difference was WGS got a bunch of ordinary players playing above their capabilities due to their fitness. I haven't even taken Jay Rod & Steve Davis into account. No offence but I think you're looking on the current squad far too kindly in this assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 It's all we've got although I was waiting for MLG to come and trump you with some Opta stats or something. I think Richard Chaplow is a bit balder than CMFG, so that could work in the current squad's favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Never is a long time. Some unexpected club will win it eventually. A club will win it without spending hundreds of millions on players too. Might be us, someone else, soon or in 50 years but things change all the time. Throwing debt at success can't and won't last forever. People get very funny about ambitious talk though, from any club. No change or upsetting the hierarchy, no ideas above your station. I have no idea how saints will get on in the next 5 or 10 years, but I think it's great to see any small or medium sized club thinking big and showing ambition. So much negative and defensive talk and decision making in football it's no wonder most clubs stand still or go backwards. And I do hope all saying 17th is success will stick to that and not moan about the many losses. Because if you're 17th, you've lost a lot of games and had some really poor form. I can't help but think the road to 17th would be dominated by 'sign 11 new players' and 'Adkins out' threads from relentless morons. Unexpected clubs have won all sorts already. Greece. Denmark. Blackburn. Wimbledon. Southampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Unexpected clubs have won all sorts already. Greece. Denmark. Blackburn. Wimbledon. Southampton. Not bad. In the whole history of football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 I like Cortese. If you aim for the stars you might not get there but you don't come up with a handfull of dirt either... I just hope he is genuinely prepared to pay what it costs. But then he has said he could see us paying players £200k a week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Not bad. In the whole history of football I was throwing out a few in my recent known memory. I'm not a fecking almanac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Unexpected clubs have won all sorts already. Greece. Denmark. Blackburn. Wimbledon. Southampton. Not in this era and only 1 example is over an entire premier league campaign. We will not win the league without spending hundreds and hundreds of Millions on the squad ala City and even then they had to due it with seconds of the season left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Not in this era and only 1 example is over an entire premier league campaign. We will not win the league without spending hundreds and hundreds of Millions on the squad ala City. Agreed. He hasn't said he wouldn't. In fact he's said quite the reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Agreed. He hasn't said he wouldn't. In fact he's said quite the reverse. What has he said? If you're referring to this: Would I pay a player £100,000 or even £200,000 a week? Not if we were in the Premier League with a 32,000 capacity stadium. But if we were in the Champions League and had re-developed the ground to 50,000 then I might consider it." then I don't think that's proof of anything at all!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Agreed. He hasn't said he wouldn't. In fact he's said quite the reverse. So why are we targeting players valued between 3-10MM instead of 20-40MM if it's a realistic ambition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 What has he said? If you're referring to this: "Would I pay a player £100,000 or even £200,000 a week? Not if we were in the Premier League with a 32,000 capacity stadium. But if we were in the Champions League and had re-developed the ground to 50,000 then I might consider it." then I don't think that's proof of anything at all!! It suggests he understands the magnitude of the task and what's required to challenge for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 So why are we targeting players valued between 3-10MM instead of 20-40MM if it's a realistic ambition? Rome wasn't built in a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 It suggests he understands the magnitude of the task and what's required to challnge for success. Oh, ok then. I took it as a wishy washy statement that kind of suggests we won't spend money we don't have, if anything at all. Its totally non-committal about anything and therefore a bit pointless to base any future plans or intentions upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 It makes me laugh how Cortese talks like he's the man who decides. At the end of the day it isn't his money so such huge spending would not be his decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Unexpected clubs have won all sorts already. Greece. Denmark. Blackburn. Wimbledon. Southampton. If that's not a "man on the moon" statement, I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Rome wasn't built in a day. But they would have built it in a day if they could have. If you know you have the resources to do what is required now, why wait? For me, we are doing exactly what we should be doing and matches what our ambition actually is. The rest is just absolute pie in the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 I took it as a wishy washy statement that kind of suggests we won't spend money we don't have, if anything at all. Its totally non-committal about anything and therefore a bit pointless to base any future plans or intentions upon. What about if you review Adkins statement, Cortese' quotes and the early St Mary's "plans" as a whole rather than individually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 What about if you review Adkins statement, Cortese' quotes and the early St Mary's "plans" as a whole rather than individually? Oh God, here we go. Nope, still the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Oh God, here we go. Nope, still the same. The evidence is mounting that they have very big plans and resources behind them. You continue to pick holes in each bit, but lots of them are starting to support each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 The evidence is mounting that they have very big plans and resources behind them. You continue to pick holes in each bit, but lots of them are starting to support each other. I'm sure you miss the point deliberately just to try and be obtuse and contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 We could have bought hazard if we wanted. Seeing as we are so minted Why didn't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 We could have bought hazard if we wanted. Seeing as we are so minted Why didn't we? Rome wasn't built in a day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 What about if you review Adkins statement, Cortese' quotes and the early St Mary's "plans" as a whole rather than individually? Exactly. You'd have to be blind not to see the AMBITION. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 Unexpected clubs have won all sorts already. Blackburn. . Rome wasn't built in a day. But they would have built it in a day if they could have. If you know you have the resources to do what is required now, why wait? Absolutely, Dig Dig. Blackburn broke the British transfer record to buy Britain's hottest striker in the close season after winning promotion to the Premier League. That's how you go about winning the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 13 July, 2012 Share Posted 13 July, 2012 We could have bought hazard if we wanted. Seeing as we are so minted Why didn't we? I think some of our fans must have had lobotomies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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