"UK needs extra spending cuts"

[trousers]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18811472

 

The UK government must make deeper cuts or raise more money in the future to keep public finances in check, the Office for Budget Responsibility says.

 

In its annual look at the government's finances, the OBR says in 2017-18 public spending needs to be cut by another £17bn or the same amount raised in taxes to stop debt ballooning.

[buctootim]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18811472

 

The UK government must make deeper cuts or raise more money in the future to keep public finances in check, the Office for Budget Responsibility says.

 

In its annual look at the government's finances, the OBR says in 2017-18 public spending needs to be cut by another £17bn or the same amount raised in taxes to stop debt ballooning.

 

 

Those 50 year extrapolations are always ridiculous. I dont know why organisations publish them. Whether or not we balance the budget, and how soon, will depend more on returning to growth rather than further budget cuts.

[trousers]

At least we should get a much clearer choice as the next election. All 3 parties were advocating a fairly similar cuts programme last election whereas next time Labour should be promising more spending and higher taxes as an alternative to the Tories spending cuts and tax freezes.

[Verbal]

trousers, if you seriously think the Tories are in with some sort of chance of gaining an overall majority at the next election, you're off your trolley. The last time they managed it was 1992 - two decades ago. And with Dave's genius, it's still a long, long way off. A quarter of a century with no majority Tory rule sounds good, don't you think?

[trousers]

trousers, if you seriously think the Tories are in with some sort of chance of gaining an overall majority at the next election, you're off your trolley. The last time they managed it was 1992 - two decades ago. And with Dave's genius, it's still a long, long way off. A quarter of a century with no majority Tory rule sounds good, don't you think?

 

I was actually insinuating that Labour are more likely to get in by promising extra spending (whilst not quite singing the tax rises from the rooftops)

[Verbal]

I was actually insinuating that Labour are more likely to get in by promising extra spending (whilst not quite singing the tax rises from the rooftops)

 

Welcome to the dark side. Let me offer you a glass of socialist champers.

[derry]

When Cameron finally realises that tory voters hate the coalition, think he is a Liberal and hate Europe he will go to war with Europe, cancel overseas aid, beef up the military and organise a quick in/out referendum on Europe. He will then neutralise the UKIP, screw the Liberals, show up Ed Milliband for what he is and win a landslide with every voting tory turning out.

[Thedelldays]

When Cameron finally realises that tory voters hate the coalition, think he is a Liberal and hate Europe he will go to war with Europe, cancel overseas aid, beef up the military and organise a quick in/out referendum on Europe. He will then neutralise the UKIP, screw the Liberals, show up Ed Milliband for what he is and win a landslide with every voting tory turning out.

 

In a perfect world

[teamsaint]

This report is what used to be known as "Made up", or "A Lie".

[Jonnyboy]

Well our borrowing keeps increasing with our part-time chancellor spending most of his time thinking about how to attack Ed Balls.

[pap]

I do wonder how many hard-core Tory voters there actually are. The Tories got around 35% of the vote in the 2010 general election with a swing toward them. That was back when they were presenting themselves as tree lovers or hoody huggers and hadn't made any unpopular decisions. The only thing that they're successfully doing is playing divide and rule. "We back the workers, they back the shirkers"? For f**k sake. That's not even Cameron's own line. He had to get his little lapdog Andrew Bridgen to field him the opportunity just so he could parrot Thatcher's rhetoric. Repeats from the 1980s. Sounds about right.

 

The little Tory monkeys lap this low grade demagoguery up. Scroungers on the dole, or the immigrants, or any of the fear-based politics that seems to be the Conservative stock in trade. It flips little switches in their brains - confirms all the stuff they ever thought. It's not remotely true, or presented with any degree of proportion - but it plays well to public anxieties. I'm not discounting a Tory victory in 2015; the British people have swallowed sh*t and been told it was steak before. There's no guarantee that turkeys won't vote for Christmas.

 

However, I think the Tories have managed to annoy just about everyone bar certain pensioners and people in the now-defunct 50% tax bracket. His government has been tainted by claims of being out of touch with the public and overly concerned with the interests of the wealthy - and not just in the usual places. Even traditional Tory media has railed against this Government.

 

Labour know that people have got short-term memories when it comes to politics, which is probably why Miliband was doing his best to bust out soundbites in the last PMQs of this Parliament. The Tories will no doubt fight a dirty campaign; say that the Lib Dems were holding them back, etc - but they'll also have five years of decisions to account for. The decisions have not been good.

[dune]

When Cameron finally realises that tory voters hate the coalition, think he is a Liberal and hate Europe he will go to war with Europe, cancel overseas aid, beef up the military and organise a quick in/out referendum on Europe. He will then neutralise the UKIP, screw the Liberals, show up Ed Milliband for what he is and win a landslide with every voting tory turning out.

 

I think we need a conservative leader with some conviction to do that. David Davis would have made a far better leader and he would have appealed to the public with his working class roots and distinguished millitary career.

[JPTCount]

well if Vodafone pay thier £6bn they owe we only need to find another two multi nationals who have been dodging tax and it's sorted.

 

this chancellor malachi is simple.

[JPTCount]

I think we need a conservative leader with some conviction to do that. David Davis would have made a far better leader and he would have appealed to the public with his working class roots and distinguished millitary career.

 

Hague would gave been thier best bet imo, but he lost an election so he can never ever be considered as a contender again.

[solentstars]

well if Vodafone pay thier £6bn they owe we only need to find another two multi nationals who have been dodging tax and it's sorted.

 

this chancellor malachi is simple.

agree

[dune]

Hague would gave been thier best bet imo, but he lost an election so he can never ever be considered as a contender again.

 

Nah, he hasn't got wide public appeal.

[badgerx16]

At work it is reckoned that we are in for a further round of cuts in the next 3 years, which end up with our net budget having been cut by nearly 40% in 5 years. How far can 'efficiency savings' be pushed ?

 

( Come on Dune, you know you've got a smart-alec trolling response to this ).

[dune]

At work it is reckoned that we are in for a further round of cuts in the next 3 years, which end up with our net budget having been cut by nearly 40% in 5 years. How far can 'efficiency savings' be pushed ?

 

( Come on Dune, you know you've got a smart-alec trolling response to this ).

 

Indeed I have a response. I was watching a programme today where nick hewer went in to help a struggling farm improve its fortunes. One of the measures he suggested was to change the road sign so instead of it saying 'Farm centre' or such like it said 'Farm centre and tea room'. Surprise surprise the bureaucrats in made up non jobs refused the request, and probably spent half their day on compiling their justification for the refusal. A perfect illustration of a typical local council full of people with nothing to do so they justify their jobs with bureaucracy.

 

What people like you need to realise is that it's the tax payer that is paying for all these dossers to plod along in non jobs.

[buctootim]

I think we need a conservative leader with some conviction to do that. David Davis would have made a far better leader and he would have appealed to the public with his working class roots and distinguished millitary career.

 

David Davis would be a good call. I doubt he would get elected as leader of the party though, for the same reasons they rejected the man the country wanted - Ken Clarke - and went successively for the unelectable but ideologically pure William Hague, Ian Duncan Smith and Michael Howard. The headbangers are in control and One Nation Toryism is nowhere atm.

[badgerx16]

What people like you need to realise is that it's the tax payer that is paying for all these dossers to plod along in non jobs.

 

I knew you wouldn't let me down.

 

You are, of course, aware of the cost to the NHS of your particular trade ? ( Assuming, that is, that you do actually peddle cancer sticks ).

[dubai_phil]

Hang on. With all these Aliens coming here for their Holidays, can't the Coalition start charging them Visa fees or Green taxes for the discharge from their UFO's?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/9392888/The-UFO-Files-aliens-might-come-here-for-holidays.html

[View From The Top]

I think we need a conservative leader with some conviction to do that. David Davis would have made a far better leader and he would have appealed to the public with his working class roots and distinguished millitary career.

 

David Davis was never in the military bar the TA. Hardly a career.

[dune]

David Davis was never in the military bar the TA. Hardly a career.

 

I must be mixing him up with someone.

[Saintandy666]

In 2015, public spending will be 42% of GDP... to add some context. In 1997, it was 37%. Though obviously, with the recession and extra labour spending the pot is much smaller than it was a few years ago. It'll still be £733bn(off the top of my head) in 2015. The way out of this mess is growth.

[JPTCount]

borris has bigger mass appeal than Dave Dave.

[Saintandy666]

borris has bigger mass appeal than Dave Dave.

 

And Boris uses that mass appeal to get away with his bungling and to disguise his politics.

[dune]

In 2015, public spending will be 42% of GDP... to add some context. In 1997, it was 37%. Though obviously, with the recession and extra labour spending the pot is much smaller than it was a few years ago. It'll still be £733bn(off the top of my head) in 2015. The way out of this mess is growth.

 

The way out of this mess is the break up of the Eurozone. That's the elephant in the room that keeps pulling us back from recovery.

[buctootim]

The way out of this mess is the break up of the Eurozone. That's the elephant in the room that keeps pulling us back from recovery.

 

You cant do it without causing massive defaults on loans, which will bring down the banks again. Yes a return to the peseta and drachma would result in a much lower exchange rate which would help Spain and Greece et al compete - but it would also mean the repayments on their euro denominated loans would rocket and they would default. The only way out of this is some miraculous growth spurt, and there is no sign of that happening.

[Saintandy666]

The way out of this mess is the break up of the Eurozone. That's the elephant in the room that keeps pulling us back from recovery.

 

I think it either needs to go one of two ways. Either as you say, break up(and maybe by extension the the whole of the EU afterwards) or closer political union and for them to follow the rules this time. I think the latter would lead to a more stable future, but I really don't think the Eurozone staying together or breaking up will affect us as much as people think in the long term(decade). We need growth and for that we need stimulus and so far the private sector has failed to do it.

[Thedelldays]

Why would the greedy people in the euros follow the rules?

[Saintandy666]

Why would the greedy people in the euros follow the rules?

 

Whereas everyone elsewhere has been entirely honest and good throughout the past economic cycle!

[hypochondriac]

borris has bigger mass appeal than Dave Dave.

 

Boris is a legend. He speaks a lot of sense.

[Verbal]

Boris is a legend. He speaks a lot of sense.

 

Yep, he's a proper Churchill. Even up against a terminally unpopular Livingstone he only scraped in for a second term as Mayor, after a disastrous first term that consisted mostly of his aides repeatedly having to ask him to turn up to work.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I do wonder how many hard-core Tory voters there actually are. The Tories got around 35% of the vote in the 2010 general election with a swing toward them. That was back when they were presenting themselves as tree lovers or hoody huggers and hadn't made any unpopular decisions. The only thing that they're successfully doing is playing divide and rule. "We back the workers, they back the shirkers"? For f**k sake. That's not even Cameron's own line. He had to get his little lapdog Andrew Bridgen to field him the opportunity just so he could parrot Thatcher's rhetoric. Repeats from the 1980s. Sounds about right.

 

The little Tory monkeys lap this low grade demagoguery up. Scroungers on the dole, or the immigrants, or any of the fear-based politics that seems to be the Conservative stock in trade. It flips little switches in their brains - confirms all the stuff they ever thought. It's not remotely true, or presented with any degree of proportion - but it plays well to public anxieties. I'm not discounting a Tory victory in 2015; the British people have swallowed sh*t and been told it was steak before. There's no guarantee that turkeys won't vote for Christmas.

 

However, I think the Tories have managed to annoy just about everyone bar certain pensioners and people in the now-defunct 50% tax bracket. His government has been tainted by claims of being out of touch with the public and overly concerned with the interests of the wealthy - and not just in the usual places. Even traditional Tory media has railed against this Government.

 

Labour know that people have got short-term memories when it comes to politics, which is probably why Miliband was doing his best to bust out soundbites in the last PMQs of this Parliament. The Tories will no doubt fight a dirty campaign; say that the Lib Dems were holding them back, etc - but they'll also have five years of decisions to account for. The decisions have not been good.

 

I would suggest that there are around 32% hard core Tory voters based on the last few elections; thats around 2% more than Labour- thats if you assume that by core you mean the level by which the % will not drop any lower in a defetaed election. If you just take England then the Tory core rises significantly. Labour relies on Welsh and Scottish votes to win elections. If you did your background reading you would discover that on the same %age vote in 2010 Labour won a sizeable majority in 2005. Hopefully boundary changes will make this process more democratic.

 

Whilst pandering to your prejudices and stereotypes you also miss the core theme of the current Tory party and that is to sort out the UK finances. Not by spending more but by spending what as a nation we can afford and by creating a business environment that lures in investment from all over the world and by encouraging enterprise to build new markets abroad. Sadly our European neighbours are not guided by such principles and the Eurozone is a mess, making it difficult to grow our economy at the moment.

 

Who will win the next election? Its a difficult one because many will not forgive the Lib Dems yet Miliband is pretty much unelectable. He may however simply be elected by default helped by Lib Dem votes. Cameron is a good communicator but he may be drowned out by the tedious Tory right and be unable to get the meassage through that we have to sort our finaces out.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

David Davis was never in the military bar the TA. Hardly a career.

 

He was in the SBS

[buctootim]

He was in the SBS

 

You love to lap up spin eh? He was in the TA SAS for less than a year.

[pap]

I would suggest that there are around 32% hard core Tory voters based on the last few elections; thats around 2% more than Labour- thats if you assume that by core you mean the level by which the % will not drop any lower in a defetaed election. If you just take England then the Tory core rises significantly. Labour relies on Welsh and Scottish votes to win elections. If you did your background reading you would discover that on the same %age vote in 2010 Labour won a sizeable majority in 2005. Hopefully boundary changes will make this process more democratic.

 

Whilst pandering to your prejudices and stereotypes you also miss the core theme of the current Tory party and that is to sort out the UK finances. Not by spending more but by spending what as a nation we can afford and by creating a business environment that lures in investment from all over the world and by encouraging enterprise to build new markets abroad. Sadly our European neighbours are not guided by such principles and the Eurozone is a mess, making it difficult to grow our economy at the moment.

 

Who will win the next election? Its a difficult one because many will not forgive the Lib Dems yet Miliband is pretty much unelectable. He may however simply be elected by default helped by Lib Dem votes. Cameron is a good communicator but he may be drowned out by the tedious Tory right and be unable to get the meassage through that we have to sort our finaces out.

 

I don't think I've missed the core theme of this government. It's basically to do as many favours for themselves and their mates in business as possible - while passing the bill and/or blame onto everyone else.

 

Appreciate that you're basing your numbers on electoral performance, but I'm not sure they're appropriate to this situation. While Labour were in power, the Tory vote grew with each general election. That'll comprise of a lot of floating voters, plus people who thought that the Conservatives would be an effective bulwark against Europe. Turns out they haven't been effective on anything save mudslinging. They couldn't even get a majority.

 

Their plans on the economy have proved to be completely wrong, and despite the Euro-sceptic Tories claiming it's the "wrong time" for an EU referendum, they're perfectly happy to start carving up the NHS and giving to big medical - even though they said the complete opposite before the election.

 

When it comes down to it, the only things that the Tories have "done" for their voters is attack the usual suspects. I hope that satisfies Tory voters in some way, because when they have to pay triple for their kids to study, get less in tax credits, pay more in tax and are still worse off, they're sure as sh!t going to need some satisfaction.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

You love to lap up spin eh? He was in the TA SAS for less than a year.

 

Yes sorry the SAS. Admitting you are wrong is easy Buctootim.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I don't think I've missed the core theme of this government. It's basically to do as many favours for themselves and their mates in business as possible - while passing the bill and/or blame onto everyone else.

 

Appreciate that you're basing your numbers on electoral performance, but I'm not sure they're appropriate to this situation. While Labour were in power, the Tory vote grew with each general election. That'll comprise of a lot of floating voters, plus people who thought that the Conservatives would be an effective bulwark against Europe. Turns out they haven't been effective on anything save mudslinging. They couldn't even get a majority.

 

Their plans on the economy have proved to be completely wrong, and despite the Euro-sceptic Tories claiming it's the "wrong time" for an EU referendum, they're perfectly happy to start carving up the NHS and giving to big medical - even though they said the complete opposite before the election.

 

When it comes down to it, the only things that the Tories have "done" for their voters is attack the usual suspects. I hope that satisfies Tory voters in some way, because when they have to pay triple for their kids to study, get less in tax credits, pay more in tax and are still worse off, they're sure as sh!t going to need some satisfaction.

 

You seem to be incable of understandimng that business creates wealth and that pays the bills so you have to encourage as much of it as possible. We cannot live off outreach cordinators.

 

How else can you judge it? We had a general election two years ago.

 

So you were expecting a quick fix?

 

So you clearly feel that we can continue to spend more money than we have. I suggest you go to Spain where somebody told me the other day that middle class families gather at the end of the day to pick up the scaps left in the village square after market day. These is a modern day tragedy created by economicly incompetent, mainlyn left leaning politicians.

[pap]

You seem to be incable of understandimng that business creates wealth and that pays the bills so you have to encourage as much of it as possible. We cannot live off outreach cordinators.

 

Sergei, when it comes down to it, wealth is being created out of thin air. That's what quantitative easing is and what the whole financial services industry is about. Something from nothing more than belief. You're not talking about basic needs. You're talking about wealth as if it's the be-all and end-all.

 

We need three things to be able to tell the corrupt banking community to go do one.

 

1) Food/water security

2) Energy security

3) Political will.

 

Get the first two sorted, and this wealth that you keep on going on about is meaningless.

 

How else can you judge it? We had a general election two years ago.

 

So you were expecting a quick fix?

 

So you clearly feel that we can continue to spend more money than we have. I suggest you go to Spain where somebody told me the other day that middle class families gather at the end of the day to pick up the scaps left in the village square after market day. These is a modern day tragedy created by economicly incompetent, mainlyn left leaning politicians.

 

I wasn't expecting a quick fix, but it would have been very nice to see some real political bravery (dune's point about the EU being the elephant in the room is bang on). We've seen neither, and you're attempting to defend our economy by saying "look at Spain", you give a great indication as to the quality of your argument ( I suppose the 14 years of Partido Popular-led politics don't count toward your left-leaning assessment ).

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Sergei, when it comes down to it, wealth is being created out of thin air. That's what quantitative easing is and what the whole financial services industry is about. Something from nothing more than belief. You're not talking about basic needs. You're talking about wealth as if it's the be-all and end-all.

 

We need three things to be able to tell the corrupt banking community to go do one.

 

1) Food/water security

2) Energy security

3) Political will.

 

Get the first two sorted, and this wealth that you keep on going on about is meaningless.

 

 

 

I wasn't expecting a quick fix, but it would have been very nice to see some real political bravery (dune's point about the EU being the elephant in the room is bang on). We've seen neither, and you're attempting to defend our economy by saying "look at Spain", you give a great indication as to the quality of your argument ( I suppose the 14 years of Partido Popular-led politics don't count toward your left-leaning assessment ).

 

I am sure you are well intentioned Pap but please try and live in the real world. You create wealth by producing goods and services and selling them. Sadly we create very few goods nowdays so we rely heavily on services that is why the government is keen to protect the banking industry.

[pap]

I am sure you are well intentioned Pap but please try and live in the real world. You create wealth by producing goods and services and selling them. Sadly we create very few goods nowdays so we rely heavily on services that is why the government is keen to protect the banking industry.

 

Which real world? This western-centric worldview that you're conflating as the real world now, where this artificial idea of wealth is all that seems to matter to you?

 

Or perhaps a little further afield, or a little further into our own past, where feeding and housing yourself and your loved ones was number one priority.

 

You're treating the financial system as a point of truth, Sergei. The irony is that there's nothing real about it.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Believe it or not you have to create wealth to feed and house yourself. I know this is not the case in Liverpool of course.

[buctootim]

Believe it or not you have to create wealth to feed and house yourself. I know this is not the case in Liverpool of course.

 

What wealth do you create as a 'drinks consultant' Sergei?

[pap]

Believe it or not you have to create wealth to feed and house yourself. I know this is not the case in Liverpool of course.

 

So if that's true, how did the human race ever get started?

 

Stock investments in mammoth hunting firms? A portfolio down at Ugg's cave?

 

I don't believe that you need to create wealth to feed yourself. You just need food, a mouth and some working limb to shove it in ( doesn't even need to be your own! ).

 

Your housing argument is equally crap when held up to historical behaviour. Did our cavemen forebears have to get a mortgage for that nifty little granite number in the nice location?

 

Your arguments only work if you pretend that human history started with central banks and couldn't continue in any other way. I'll take your 300 years and raise you the rest of human history.

[dune]

You love to lap up spin eh? He was in the TA SAS for less than a year.

 

To be fair to him his life story is a good one. The lad from the council estate that worked his way up through hard graft. Far better to have a leader like him than a limp wristed geek like Ed Milliband. Only in politics would someone like Ed ever stand a chance of leading. In business he'd be the computer technician.

Edited 13 July, 2012 by dune

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

What wealth do you create as a 'drinks consultant' Sergei?

 

Well, I sell my insight to companies like Heineken, they then pay money and that creates wealth. I thought you knew everything.

[pap]

To be fair to him his life story is a good one. The lad from the council estate that worked his way up through hard graft.

 

Shouldn't even be a "story", mate. Should just be the norm. Used to be, too - but those were different days.

 

In those days, politicians felt the government had a responsibility to provide affordable sanitary housing for the people they served. Very different times

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

So if that's true, how did the human race ever get started?

 

Stock investments in mammoth hunting firms? A portfolio down at Ugg's cave?

 

I don't believe that you need to create wealth to feed yourself. You just need food, a mouth and some working limb to shove it in ( doesn't even need to be your own! ).

 

Your housing argument is equally crap when held up to historical behaviour. Did our cavemen forebears have to get a mortgage for that nifty little granite number in the nice location?

 

Your arguments only work if you pretend that human history started with central banks and couldn't continue in any other way. I'll take your 300 years and raise you the rest of human history.

 

Before money you would have had to fight for your food and shelter. Would that be a better system?

[buctootim]

To be fair to him his life story is a good one. The lad from the council estate that worked his way up through hard graft. Far better to have a leader like him than a limp wristed geek like Ed Milliband. Only in politics would someone like Ed ever stand a chance of leading. In business he'd be the computer technician.

 

Sure, Im not knocking him. Hes achieved so much considering his background. From South London council estate to a scholarship at Harvard takes something pretty special. We need a lot more politicians like him and less Millibands / Camerons / Cleggs. Davis' record speaks for itself, he doesnt need to be bigged up by spin.