spyinthesky Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Understand it cost the club £32m to build Anyone out there have an idea how much a similar stadium would cost today?. Appreciate that critics complain that it is a 'flat pack' design but surely good value for money in today's market and one of the reasons why we were looked upon as a decent investment by the Liebherrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Brightons cost £90m+ and I thought it was terrible - although I hear the corners are being filled in. The concourse is too small, the transportation and location are atrocious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wireframebox Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricoh_Arena Was meant to have cost £113m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Difficult to tell because stadium design has evolved a lot in the decade or so since St Mary's was built, new stadia these days tend to have a lot more curves and intricacies than the fairly standard Barr-built design we and a number of other similar-sized clubs have got. As a guide, Brighton's half-finished effort cost in the region of £90m (although knock a few million off for the public inquiry that dragged on for years - we wouldn't have needed one if we were building that stadium where St Mary's is), plus however much they're spending on the extra seats this summer. Given the old design would have cost roughly three times as much to extend as it did to build in the first place on a per-seat basis, it seems reasonable to assume that extending St Mary's with a more modern design on the extension would cost a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Difficult to tell because stadium design has evolved a lot in the decade or so since St Mary's was built, new stadia these days tend to have a lot more curves and intricacies than the fairly standard Barr-built design we and a number of other similar-sized clubs have got. As a guide, Brighton's half-finished effort cost in the region of £90m (although knock a few million off for the public inquiry that dragged on for years - we wouldn't have needed one if we were building that stadium where St Mary's is), plus however much they're spending on the extra seats this summer. Given the old design would have cost roughly three times as much to extend as it did to build in the first place on a per-seat basis, it seems reasonable to assume that extending St Mary's with a more modern design on the extension would cost a lot more. good explanation Steve, but as we are hardly likely to move (again), any extension...(however expensive ) seems like a cheap option to re-vamping the present arena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brussels Saint Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Actually as I understand it, it did not cost us anything like the original 32m if thats the correct amount. When we went into admin, I think Aviva took a substantial haircut from the Liebherr's, which when all told, has to just about make it the best value stadium anywhere in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Brightons cost £90m+ and I thought it was terrible - although I hear the corners are being filled in. The concourse is too small, the transportation and location are atrocious.[/quote) ...and what a stupid decision that was. They might have chosen a cheaper option, and spent more on the team and maybe got a promotion slot ..' though I'm glad they didn't get ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 The price of steel in 2012 has significantly increased since St Mary's was being built in late 1990's/early 2000's. As have the prices other materials like concrete. There is a lot of concrete and steel needed to make a football stadium and a lot of the overall cost of a stadium will be in these materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Thanks for the graph God. So all new stadiums should be made of wood. (By the way, don't want to be picky with you of all people, but that graph only goes up to 2007 - since when the world economy has been turned upside down and inside out.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Thanks for the graph God. So all new stadiums should be made of wood. With the amount of rain we are having they could double as Arks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tttdcs Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Apparently SMS cost more than £32m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 The ironic thing is you could have gone for a top quality bigger stadium that included other revenue streams and not paid any more since most of the debt was wiped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Pompey Online have a similar graph showing the prices of carboard, duct tape and staples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Apparently SMS cost more than £32m Yes it was £32m 20p the 20p was the Skate shirt buried under the centre circle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the graph God. So all new stadiums should be made of wood. Maybe that explains Cortese commissioning this for Staplewood training ground... (By the way, don't want to be picky with you of all people, but that graph only goes up to 2007 - since when the world economy has been turned upside down and inside out.) I know it is out of date ( I couldn't find a more recent one), but it is still true - construction material prices in the last 12 years have increased significantly. Edited 9 July, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Actually as I understand it, it did not cost us anything like the original 32m if thats the correct amount. When we went into admin, I think Aviva took a substantial haircut from the Liebherr's, which when all told, has to just about make it the best value stadium anywhere in the country. Not really true, because we got promoted within 5 years of admin it triggered a clause that means we now owe Aviva a sizeable wedge... Apparently SMS cost more than £32m Yes, because we'd been in SMS for a little while so had paid off some of the mortgage, £32m was what was left when we were adminsised!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Needs a good clean does old St Mary's. A very good clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Not really true, because we got promoted within 5 years of admin it triggered a clause that means we now owe Aviva a sizeable wedge... Interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Interesting... Yes, I'm sure I read that somewhere and I'm sure it was mentioned when we went into Admin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Actually as I understand it, it did not cost us anything like the original 32m if thats the correct amount. When we went into admin, I think Aviva took a substantial haircut from the Liebherr's, which when all told, has to just about make it the best value stadium anywhere in the country. Whether the bill was paid or not is irrelevant - The cost of building the stadium was 32 million. As for Aviva, they did lose out and not really something we should be proud of, but they have just picked up another 4 million quid from us, as part of the settlement agreement meant we (Liebherr) had to pay an additional one off payment of 4 million if we made it back to the prem within 5 years I would imagine that they got about 10 million from 13 million that Markus paid for the club, this one off payment of 4 million, plus however many years of the mortgage payments (Rumored to be 1.5 million a year). As a guess, they probably got back half of what they lent us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Thanks for the graph God. So all new stadiums should be made of wood. QPR's new ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 QPR's new ground. Too like the old one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 QPR's new ground. Wheres the roof? Good job Mittals business is steel as we can get the raw materials at mates rates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Whether the bill was paid or not is irrelevant - The cost of building the stadium was 32 million. As for Aviva, they did lose out and not really something we should be proud of, but they have just picked up another 4 million quid from us, as part of the settlement agreement meant we (Liebherr) had to pay an additional one off payment of 4 million if we made it back to the prem within 5 years I would imagine that they got about 10 million from 13 million that Markus paid for the club, this one off payment of 4 million, plus however many years of the mortgage payments (Rumored to be 1.5 million a year). As a guess, they probably got back half of what they lent us. I reckon it's a fair bit more than that. Bear in mind we went into admin in 2009, having been playing at St Mary's since 2001, so that's 8 years of mortgage payments (I think it was a bit more than £1.5m pa, but will go with that as it's an easy number to multiply ) plus £11-12m for the 2009 settlement (Barclays got **** all in comparison) plus this latest £4m. By my reckoning, that's at least £27m repaid to them. The total loan amount was £25m, IIRC. £5m of the build cost was funded by the sale of The Dell to Barratt Homes and another £2-3m from the share issue that the guy from Sanderson whose name escapes me was the main underwriter. When you include the interest we would have paid over the 25 years of the mortgage, they've lost out, but in real terms they probably still made an overall profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 (edited) We went into admin in 2009, having been playing at St Mary's since 2001, so that's 8 years of mortgage payments The Aviva mortgage probably started earlier than 2001. They needed the money to pay for the construction/materials/labour etc during the build process. So maybe 1999 or 2000 perhaps? Edited 9 July, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint J 77 Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 The price of steel in 2012 has significantly increased since St Mary's was being built in late 1990's/early 2000's. As have the prices other materials like concrete. There is a lot of concrete and steel needed to make a football stadium and a lot of the overall cost of a stadium will be in these materials. Any potential extension of the stadium could be very costly with those current prices! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 I reckon it's a fair bit more than that. Bear in mind we went into admin in 2009, having been playing at St Mary's since 2001, so that's 8 years of mortgage payments (I think it was a bit more than £1.5m pa, but will go with that as it's an easy number to multiply ) plus £11-12m for the 2009 settlement (Barclays got **** all in comparison) plus this latest £4m. By my reckoning, that's at least £27m repaid to them. The total loan amount was £25m, IIRC. £5m of the build cost was funded by the sale of The Dell to Barratt Homes and another £2-3m from the share issue that the guy from Sanderson whose name escapes me was the main underwriter. When you include the interest we would have paid over the 25 years of the mortgage, they've lost out, but in real terms they probably still made an overall profit. Fairly sure that for at least one year, maybe more, when we made a profit Lowe invested that by overpaying on the standard annual stadium mortgage repayment. So the total owed came down faster than the initial repayment structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Site Agent Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Hmmm. I did a cost comparison on it a couple of years ago. I'm on holiday at the mement but when I'm back to work i'll see if I can find it then apply a couple of growth figures. Hopefully indexing will give a close value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 I reckon it's a fair bit more than that. Bear in mind we went into admin in 2009, having been playing at St Mary's since 2001, so that's 8 years of mortgage payments (I think it was a bit more than £1.5m pa, but will go with that as it's an easy number to multiply ) plus £11-12m for the 2009 settlement (Barclays got **** all in comparison) plus this latest £4m. By my reckoning, that's at least £27m repaid to them. The total loan amount was £25m, IIRC. £5m of the build cost was funded by the sale of The Dell to Barratt Homes and another £2-3m from the share issue that the guy from Sanderson whose name escapes me was the main underwriter. When you include the interest we would have paid over the 25 years of the mortgage, they've lost out, but in real terms they probably still made an overall profit. I may have this wrong but I believe the final cost on the stadium was lower than £32M because of the nature of the deal with the Dell flats and Barratt Homes. We got paid on a profit % as the flats were sold, resulting in an extra £3.1M when the final flat was sold in 2005. I believe that the extra revenue generated from moving to St Mary's covered the cost of the build at the time of relegation. Although that revenue was split to all aspects of the club, especially the team. The biggest problem Aviva had was the book value of the stadium. Useless for anything other because of the attached planning regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkoksaint Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 And Lowe got £100,000 bonus for delivering the stadium. For the first time ever I can say I am def ITK on that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 And Lowe got £100,000 bonus for delivering the stadium. For the first time ever I can say I am def ITK on that ! That makes sense. The renumeration committe would have set certain goals / objectives linked to bounuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 9 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Makes you realise that Pompey will struggle to improve their 'Arena' with their dodgy credit rating Meanwhile wonder if there are any improvement grants around to assist with stadium upgrades for the forthcoming rugby world cup games at St marys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Meanwhile wonder if there are any improvement grants around to assist with stadium upgrades for the forthcoming rugby world cup games at St marys? There is no money from hosting a Rugby World Cup to justify giving some to Saints to expand St Mary's for hosting minor games in 2015. The last Rugby World Cup in 2011 had games at stadiums with capacities of 15,000 and 18,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the colonel Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 I am I right in remembering that the council gave us the land? So Saints paid for the cleaning up the land contaminated by the gas works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Meanwhile wonder if there are any improvement grants around to assist with stadium upgrades for the forthcoming rugby world cup games at St marys? I hardly think we'll be packed to the rafters for Romania vs Tonga or whatever no mark games we're going to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Outgoing: 20.4m construction 4.3m site and third party acquisitions 2.1m service diversions 1.8m planning and infrastructure 1.3m finance incl' construction period finance 29.9m total Incoming: 17m debt 5.0m sale of the Dell 3.6m Football Trust and other grants 3.1m gross proceeds from Placing and Open Offer 1.2m stand sponsorship & other commercial 29.9m total Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Outgoing: 20.4m construction 4.3m site and third party acquisitions 2.1m service diversions 1.8m planning and infrastructure 1.3m finance incl' construction period finance 29.9m total Incoming: 17m debt 5.0m sale of the Dell 3.6m Football Trust and other grants 3.1m gross proceeds from Placing and Open Offer 1.2m stand sponsorship & other commercial 29.9m total So a pretty stunning bargain, however you look at it, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 (edited) Actually as I understand it, it did not cost us anything like the original 32m if thats the correct amount. When we went into admin, I think Aviva took a substantial haircut from the Liebherr's, which when all told, has to just about make it the best value stadium anywhere in the country. My understanding was that £23m was outstanding on the mortgage but NU/Aviva had received a hefty sum already. Mark Fry quoted that Aviva were looking for an initial settlement figure of £7m with I believe a further £4m when back in the Premier. This was a similar figure that Ipswich paid off a £28m mortgage when Evans took them over. Edited 9 July, 2012 by derry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 So a pretty stunning bargain, however you look at it, right? Yes a bargain. For some reason I too thought the land was transferred at nil cost but evidently not though the cost of the land was low. As a rule of thumb you'd expect the land value to be closer to a third of total scheme costs. Perhaps it was heavily contaminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chin Strain Posted 9 July, 2012 Share Posted 9 July, 2012 Thanks for the graph God. So all new stadiums should be made of wood. (By the way, don't want to be picky with you of all people, but that graph only goes up to 2007 - since when the world economy has been turned upside down and inside out.) But the Chinese have been hoovering all these materials up at a rate of knots since then, so would imagine the prices have increased further Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do i not like fizzy pop Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 FWIW not long after St Mary's was built I was chatting to a commercial director of Mowlem who told me that they had come 2nd in the tender with a bid around £50m, with other bids between the £50-£65m mark. He commented Barr were so desperate to build an EPL club stadium that put in a ridiculous below cost bid to win the work. On that basis we probably got great value for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsfc Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Compared to newer stadia St Mary's is a bargain but was substantially more expensive than both the Riverside in Middlesbrough (£16m) which opened in 95 and Sunderlands Stadium of Light which cost a bargain £23m for 49000 seats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronskisaint Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 I can remember an interview with Rupert where they were discussing the cost of both Wembley and the Millenium Stadia. He said they had budgeted on approximately one million per thousand seats and had slightly bettered their target. His point, I believe, was that Wembley had been hugely mismanaged. As against that costing I'm guessing that approximately three times + per thousand seats wouldn't be far away given what's been said on here - I have no other building knowledge but loosely ties in with the Brighton ground (a prettier, glorified version of Colchester's!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Luke Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 The new Rotherham ground was quoted at £20 million this morning on Sky. It looks a fair bit like ours from the outside and has a capacity of about 12,000 so more expensive than ours per 1000 but probably not when taking infaltion into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 His point, I believe, was that Wembley had been hugely mismanaged. Fair to say he's not alone with that particular sentiment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 My understanding was that £23m was outstanding on the mortgage but NU/Aviva had received a hefty sum already. Mark Fry quoted that Aviva were looking for an initial settlement figure of £7m with I believe a further £4m when back in the Premier. This was a similar figure that Ipswich paid off a £28m mortgage when Evans took them over. So Aviv presented us with a bill for 4m over the summer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 The new Rotherham ground was quoted at £20 million this morning on Sky. It looks a fair bit like ours from the outside and has a capacity of about 12,000 so more expensive than ours per 1000 but probably not when taking infaltion into account. It won't have a lot of the facilities we have though (similar to the Keepmoat), so won't cost anywhere near to kit out. The foundations etc will not be as deep either. A hell of a lot of concrete went into ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 I hardly think we'll be packed to the rafters for Romania vs Tonga or whatever no mark games we're going to get. That's dell sized thinking. There must be loads of people in the New Forest and the English Channel who are desperate to see top flight rugby... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 So Aviv presented us with a bill for 4m over the summer ? Yep, been open info for ages NC has been quite open that a final creditor is due around £5m on rerun to the premier league (when ever that would have been) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Compared to newer stadia St Mary's is a bargain but was substantially more expensive than both the Riverside in Middlesbrough (£16m) which opened in 95 and Sunderlands Stadium of Light which cost a bargain £23m for 49000 seats! Stadium of light cost the Sunderland owners £10m The rest came from regeneration grants and the like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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