Anyone disagree with the assessment inThe Echo - including the leavers?

[Hopkins]

Perhaps that's true but then many will point to us holding our own for 60mins against united in a cup game as a reason our players are good enough. Personally i think watching the team over the course of the season home and away is my rationale.

 

Aside from probably 5/6 (pre jay rod) players most are championship players at best. Now i'm hoping that Adkins/Cortesee think the same and strengthen since we really are stepping up against in next season.

 

I mean is anyone else not filled with dread at the prospect of a first team starting against Man City that might include Hammond, Richardson, Fonte and Davis? As good as some of those players have been last season i'm personally terrified of how easily they'll get found out and taken apart by good players.

 

Oh and then there'd be a bench that would include Chaplow and Seaborne...

 

The thing is though, while the likes of City and Co dread some sort of fear into clubs like ours, they are in the minority. Any team in the world would fear them. However, bar the top say...6 teams...The Premier League is not all that. Players like Dyer, Delap, Surman, Jones, Baird, and Best have all coped fine in it. Would they get in our team now? Possibly Dyer and Baird at the moment. Not to mention some of the utter guff that play for teams like Stoke and Norwich.

 

The Premier League in terms of actual quality is not all that. It's good, it's better than the Championship, but other than the top 6/7/8 teams, it's not THAT much of a step up.

[hutch]

If I compare our squad with United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. I start to feel all ericb.

 

But if I compare us to Stoke, West Brom, Swansea, Norwich, Fulham, Wigan, Reading etc. I feel much better.

[The Kraken]

Big difference between realistic and choosing to focus on 4 games we didn't win. Meaningless IMO. Not saying we'll do well or badly, just think it had absolutely no impact on it.

How many games do we need to look at against the better sides before it makes an impact?

 

2 games against Reading: we won 0.

2 games against West Ham: we won 1.

2 games against Blackpool: we won 0.

2 games against Birmingham: we won 1.

2 games against Cardiff: we won 0.

 

So against 3 sides that were previously in PL; against 2 sides we were promoted with to the PL this season; and against 1 side who made the Championship playoffs: we played 10 games and won 2 of them.

 

It's no guarantee of anything of course. However it should prove to be a bit of a notification that we consistently struggled against better sides in the division, and we'll need to considerably step up our game in a better division with much better teams than that around us. I think the size of the task ahead of us may come as a bit of a shock to some.

[Cabrone]

I'd be incredibly dissapointed if Hammond was anywhere near the team next season, he's not good enough for the prem in the slightest and is at best a journeyman championship player.

 

For me he needs to be got rid of, Chaplow would make a passable back up in the premier league but even with him i'd prefer to find someone better. Neither of those two have the ability to keep the ball well enough for the premier league and they are both more than a little reckless in the tackle which'll lead to suspensions in the premier league.

 

To be honest with you i really think we're going to struggle since a hell of a lot of our squad isn't up to it and without at least four more signings i don't think we're up to the quality needed to stay up.

 

It's an unpopular point of view i know but i think a realistic one based on the quality of our players.

 

I think more fans are realistic than this BB would let you believe.

 

This is going to be a tough season and 4th from bottom would be a result IMO.

 

Need a class GK + CB to keep the goals against as low as possible.

[EBS1980]

IMO it all depends on what further signings we make. At the moment our centre midfield options are Hammond, Cork, Davis and Morgan. Therefore Hammond will still feature next season, if we sign further centre midfielders then i believe we will look to move 1 on, in which case i think Hammond would be the first of those 4 that would leave.

[Turkish]

How many games do we need to look at against the better sides before it makes an impact?

 

2 games against Reading: we won 0.

2 games against West Ham: we won 1.

2 games against Blackpool: we won 0.

2 games against Birmingham: we won 1.

2 games against Cardiff: we won 0.

 

So against 3 sides that were previously in PL; against 2 sides we were promoted with to the PL this season; and against 1 side who made the Championship playoffs: we played 10 games and won 2 of them.

 

It's no guarantee of anything of course. However it should prove to be a bit of a notification that we consistently struggled against better sides in the division, and we'll need to considerably step up our game in a better division with much better teams than that around us. I think the size of the task ahead of us may come as a bit of a shock to some.

 

I made this point last season when i said we were flat track bullies, great when we are on top, having 65% posession and creating loads of chances but we were often exposed defensively when put under pressure and made a lot of individual errors. We rarely ground out wins with great defensive displays and it ulitmately cost us the title. Of course i was shouted down as being negative but the facts are there to see. Next season there wont be many games where we create 15-20 chances and have 65% posession, it's easy to be a great defender when your team are dominating, not so much when you're under a lot of pressure. We have struggled against the best teams in the division as our results prove. Sadly for us we wont be playing and dominating Watfords, Derbys, Coventry and Doncasters next season. I was shouted down where i dared to suggest Harding wasn't up to it at championship level, but Nige seemed to agree and went out and signed Danny Fox for near on £2m when everyone was saying Left back wasn't a priority. I was called negative when i said Fonte looked out of his depth at times, i was told how great he was and proven at championship level, yet by the end of the season a lot seemed to agree.

[Dalek2003]

How many games do we need to look at against the better sides before it makes an impact?

 

2 games against Reading: we won 0.

2 games against West Ham: we won 1.

2 games against Blackpool: we won 0.

2 games against Birmingham: we won 1.

2 games against Cardiff: we won 0.

 

So against 3 sides that were previously in PL; against 2 sides we were promoted with to the PL this season; and against 1 side who made the Championship playoffs: we played 10 games and won 2 of them.

 

It's no guarantee of anything of course. However it should prove to be a bit of a notification that we consistently struggled against better sides in the division, and we'll need to considerably step up our game in a better division with much better teams than that around us. I think the size of the task ahead of us may come as a bit of a shock to some.

 

Good post as are the sentiments of Turkish. I was surprised that we got promoted last season.

[The Kraken]

Christ, you know you've done something wrong when Dalek agrees with you.

[Chez]

Something which I'd pointed out some time ago on another thread, but sadly after his return he wasn't a shadow of his former self.

Let's hope that he has a good pre-season and has a chance to be part of the 25 squad.

 

his game is all about fitness and in the initial games on his return he was poor, perhaps because he wasn't match fit (**** off Owen). But away at palace for example he was outstanding. You need movement in a side, and off the ball running is key. Not all players do it. I point to Freddie Ljungberg as a key player for Arsenal back in the day. The space he created for others because of his running without the ball not to mention latching on to the end of some great passes was a huge contribution to their success. Chaplow can offer that to us, all be it on a lessor scale.

[Turkish]

his game is all about fitness and in the initial games on his return he was poor, perhaps because he wasn't match fit (**** off Owen). But away at palace for example he was outstanding. You need movement in a side, and off the ball running is key. Not all players do it. I point to Freddie Ljungberg as a key player for Arsenal back in the day. The space he created for others because of his running without the ball not to mention latching on to the end of some great passes was a huge contribution to their success. Chaplow can offer that to us, all be it on a lessor scale.

 

I consider you a rare breed on this mongboard Chez. You do actually know what you are talking about.

[Channon's Sideburns]

his game is all about fitness and in the initial games on his return he was poor, perhaps because he wasn't match fit (**** off Owen). But away at palace for example he was outstanding. You need movement in a side, and off the ball running is key. Not all players do it. I point to Freddie Ljungberg as a key player for Arsenal back in the day. The space he created for others because of his running without the ball not to mention latching on to the end of some great passes was a huge contribution to their success. Chaplow can offer that to us, all be it on a lessor scale.

 

Bang on - Chappers offers us something different.

[SaintSteve]

How many games do we need to look at against the better sides before it makes an impact?

 

2 games against Reading: we won 0.

2 games against West Ham: we won 1.

2 games against Blackpool: we won 0.

2 games against Birmingham: we won 1.

2 games against Cardiff: we won 0.

 

So against 3 sides that were previously in PL; against 2 sides we were promoted with to the PL this season; and against 1 side who made the Championship playoffs: we played 10 games and won 2 of them.

 

It's no guarantee of anything of course. However it should prove to be a bit of a notification that we consistently struggled against better sides in the division, and we'll need to considerably step up our game in a better division with much better teams than that around us. I think the size of the task ahead of us may come as a bit of a shock to some.

 

That's about the only sensible statement you have made. We were promoted as we were the 2nd best team in the division, with the best goal difference. We will continue to attack Premier League teams - lets wait and see whether we control possession and create more chances than the opposition. I expect we will against half of them.

[The Kraken]

That's about the only sensible statement you have made. We were promoted as we were the 2nd best team in the division, with the best goal difference. We will continue to attack Premier League teams - lets wait and see whether we control possession and create more chances than the opposition. I expect we will against half of them.

OK. So, to try to judge our potential in the PL, its completely irrelevant how we fared against the top 6 clubs, is it (2 of whom we'll actually be facing next season)? Its completely irrelevant that we only won 2 out of 10 games. But much more important that we were consistently able to beat the likes of Doncaster, Coventry, Barnsley etc etc.

 

If that's your idea of sense then count me out, I'll stick to my views thanks. Our achievements last year over the course of the season were excellent. Our achievements over the top 6 clubs give something of an insight into how strong our team is compared to other similiarly strong (or arguably weaker) teams to us. But you carry on ignoring all that if you wish.

[jam]

That's about the only sensible statement you have made. We were promoted as we were the 2nd best team in the division, with the best goal difference. We will continue to attack Premier League teams - lets wait and see whether we control possession and create more chances than the opposition. I expect we will against half of them.

 

So you don't think it's relevant to look at our form against the better sides last season to get an indication of whether our players will cope with a higher level? Out of the teams the The Kraken listed, can you come up with five that we beat last season who are more likely to be considered EPL standard?

[SaintSteve]

So you don't think it's relevant to look at our form against the better sides last season to get an indication of whether our players will cope with a higher level? Out of the teams the The Kraken listed, can you come up with five that we beat last season who are more likely to be considered EPL standard?

Its irrelevant as our Championship squad was put together to achieve promotion which we did; although some of you still had to provide negativity throughout the season.

We are now in the PL, and are enhancing the squad with like minded players to continue the progression.

I suggest you engage your brain, and think positive. The way we set out to win games will not change and we are not based on individual mindsets, more a team ethic and attacking skills.

So, yes last seasons results are irrelevant.

[Turkish]

Its irrelevant as our Championship squad was put together to achieve promotion which we did; although some of you still had to provide negativity throughout the season.

We are now in the PL, and are enhancing the squad with like minded players to continue the progression.

I suggest you engage your brain, and think positive. The way we set out to win games will not change and we are not based on individual mindsets, more a team ethic and attacking skills.

So, yes last seasons results are irrelevant.

 

Do you think we'll beat Man City and United if we set out to play as we would do against Doncaster and Coventry?

[ericb]

Bang on - Chappers offers us something different.

 

To be honest i'm not arguing he wasn't good for us at times, i just think he's not actually good enough for the prem', and that's as much as anything down to his woeful ability to keep hold of the ball.

 

Now away against palace is one thing, if you lose it then you'll probably get it back again quickly, but against sides in the premiership (and yes i do include teams like stoke in that) if we lose it we're going to really struggle to get it back.

 

But if I compare us to Stoke, West Brom, Swansea, Norwich, Fulham, Wigan, Reading etc. I feel much better.

 

Agree on Norwich, Reading and maybe Wigan (if they lose moses) but the other teams are still a lot better than us. To mention Stoke is madness for a start, the way they've established themselves as a mid table side says everything and i'd be very impressed if we took even 4 points off them as things stand.

 

I really do think there are some in for a reality shock since we're used to seeing our team against a fairly poor standard of teams who give us time and space, we aren't as good as people think.

 

Mind you i really do hope i'm eating these words come the end of the season.

[Thedelldays]

Do you think we'll beat Man City and United if we set out to play as we would do against Doncaster and Coventry?

 

I think over the season we will be more exciting and attacking than the other two that came up. But I do think we will get a few tonkings too.

 

I still don't think we will finish above west ham.

 

I think 16th will be us and that would be a good season

[The Kraken]

Its irrelevant as our Championship squad was put together to achieve promotion which we did; although some of you still had to provide negativity throughout the season.

We are now in the PL, and are enhancing the squad with like minded players to continue the progression.

I suggest you engage your brain, and think positive. The way we set out to win games will not change and we are not based on individual mindsets, more a team ethic and attacking skills.

So, yes last seasons results are irrelevant.

 

Wahay! Two "negative Norman" accusations and an "engage your brain" in one post!

 

Top work, you win today's Positive Pete award.

[ericb]

Wahay! Two "negative Norman" accusations and an "engage your brain" in one post!

 

Top work, you win today's Positive Pete award.

 

it's actually hilarious, try and take in a balanced opinion that we might not be the best thing since sliced bread and you're hounded out of the place! God knows how some of these people would've coped last time we were in the top flight, mind you i don't remember chatting to many completely doublespeak minded saints fans back then, we were a much more reasonable; rational; happy lot who didn't have delusions of grandeur (now i'll wait to be accused of a small time dell mentality).

 

Still it provides amusement at least so carry on.

[The Kraken]

it's actually hilarious, try and take in a balanced opinion that we might not be the best thing since sliced bread and you're hounded out of the place! God knows how some of these people would've coped last time we were in the top flight, mind you i don't remember chatting to many completely doublespeak minded saints fans back then, we were a much more reasonable; rational; happy lot who didn't have delusions of grandeur (now i'll wait to be accused of a small time dell mentality).

 

Still it provides amusement at least so carry on.

 

I do find it incredible that there are still a few poor folk who are so sheltered and so unbelievably sensitive that any slight questioning of just how we'll measure up on our march into European football is met with such alarmed cries and accusations of negativity.

 

As you say, it's quite a thing to behold and thankfully a lot of posters on here do recognise that next year will indeed be a huge challenge that simply can't be taken for granted, especially with just the current squad.

[jam]

Its irrelevant as our Championship squad was put together to achieve promotion which we did; although some of you still had to provide negativity throughout the season.

We are now in the PL, and are enhancing the squad with like minded players to continue the progression.

I suggest you engage your brain, and think positive. The way we set out to win games will not change and we are not based on individual mindsets, more a team ethic and attacking skills.

So, yes last seasons results are irrelevant.

 

Wow...

 

Okay, so the question was about whether last seasons results against the better sides were an indication of our players ability to cope with the EPL.

 

Firstly you say we finished top two so this proves we can control games against half the teams in the prem. But when someone points that our results against the better teams in a lower division suggests otherwise you say it's irrelevant as we're getting new players anyway.

 

Maybe instead of being all stroppy and aggressive you should have a sit down and decide what you actually do think?

 

I mean... 'engage your brain and think positive'. Seriously?