Anyone disagree with the assessment inThe Echo - including the leavers?

[Professor]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/9805422.More_market_moves_to_come_from_Adkins/?ref=eb

 

Halfway mark on signings this week sounds right. Three in and three more to come. The Echo assessment of who the club will want to move out lists the most obvious ones:- Dickson, Harding, Puncheon, Hammond, Forte, Barnard. Wonder if Chaplow should be added to that list, but the Puncheon saga shows its not that easy to move on players who are on decent wages and prefer pay over play.

[Thedelldays]

why does everyone assume the skipper is going to be out of the door..?

[Saint_clark]

Hammond won't leave, I'm fairly certain of that.

[Verbal]

It's a bit like reading a condensed rehash of everything squabbled about on here.

[rshephard3]

Hammond won't leave, I'm fairly certain of that.

 

Agreed. Hammond gets as much stick on this forum as Guly. He'll stay as a prem bench player I'd imagine, especially the way he's held his own in the Championship when called upon last year.

[Matthew Le God]

why does everyone assume the skipper is going to be out of the door..?

 

Hammond won't leave, I'm fairly certain of that.

 

Hammond will probably be 4th choice central midfielder behind Cork, Schneiderlin and Davis. That is also likely to see him lose the captaincy either to Steven Davis or Jose Fonte. Hammond may well stay this season, but the club won't want to block the route for Ward-Prowse into the first team, so Hammond will probably depart soon(ish).

[Saint_clark]

Hammond will probably be 4th choice central midfielder behind Cork, Schneiderlin and Davis. That is also likely to see him lose the captaincy either to Steven Davis or Jose Fonte. Hammond may well stay this season, but the club won't want to block the route for Ward-Prowse into the first team, so Hammond will probably depart soon(ish).

 

Nor is Adkins foolish enough to rely totally on a youngster as back up. Hammond won't be blocking anything - if Ward-Prowse is performing better than Hammond in training, he will be ahead of him.

[badgerx16]

I think Chappers will leave before Hammond.

[Matthew Le God]

Nor is Adkins foolish enough to rely totally on a youngster as back up. Hammond won't be blocking anything - if Ward-Prowse is performing better than Hammond in training, he will be ahead of him.

 

I didn't say he would "totally rely" on Ward-Prowse as backup this season. Cork, Schneiderlin, Davis all will play ahead of Hammond/Ward-Prowse. Guly Do Prado, Lallana and De Ridder can be used centrally behind the strikers and you also have Chaplow. When it comes to naming a 25 man squad, some will have to be left out. Saints already have more than twenty five over 21 players and more signings are likely to come in.

 

I also said Hammond "may well stay this season", but it is the beginning of the end for him at Saints. Unlikely to get a new contract and if he doesn't go this summer or in January, he probably will next summer.

Edited 9 July, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[Bailey]

There's a few more signings to come yet, of that I'm sure.

[The Kraken]

Nor is Adkins foolish enough to rely totally on a youngster as back up. Hammond won't be blocking anything - if Ward-Prowse is performing better than Hammond in training, he will be ahead of him.

 

JWP is also under 21 and therefore does not count in the 25-man squad limit rule.

[rshephard3]

Nor is Adkins foolish enough to rely totally on a youngster as back up. Hammond won't be blocking anything - if Ward-Prowse is performing better than Hammond in training, he will be ahead of him.

 

Agree again. I think as it stands we'd be foolish to dump Hammond. If called upon he'll do a job. Also we have no guarantee Cork, Morgan, Davis can all step up to the plate. For workrate alone I'd like Deano on the bench for the season given the only CM we've signed has been in Scotland for a fair while, effectively playing what I genuinely believe to be high League 1/low champ level. Definitely worth his contract for the first year back in the prem.

[Matthew Le God]

We have no guarantee Cork, Morgan, Davis can all step up to the plate.

 

Cork and in particular Davis have both been regulars for Premier League sides. Not a "guarantee", but when can you ever get a guarantee a player will do well?

[BadgerBadger]

It's a bit like reading a condensed rehash of everything squabbled about on here.

 

lol - very true

[Scummer]

I'd say Chaplow is far more likely to leave than Hammond.

[Chez]

if people had there way our promotion winning side would dismantled completely. Chaplow and Hammond were important cogs in the wheel, not our fringe players.

[Sour Mash]

Cork and in particular Davis have both been regulars for Premier League sides. Not a "guarantee", but when can you ever get a guarantee a player will do well?

The last competitive game Saints played Hammond was chosen ahead of Cork.

[Matthew Le God]

The last competitive game Saints played Hammond was chosen ahead of Cork.

 

So what? Do we know the reason for that? Cork may have had a slight knock. Last season Cork started 8 more games than Hammond and was the only Saints player to play in every game. You only need to watch them regularly to see which is the better player. Technically Cork is far superior to Hammond.

[Sour Mash]

So what? Do we know the reason for that? Cork may have had a slight knock. Last season Cork started 8 more games than Hammond and was the only Saints player to play in every game. You only need to watch them regularly to see which is the better player. Technically Cork is far superior to Hammond.

The reason was that Adkins chose him ahead of Cork.

[Thedelldays]

So what? Do we know the reason for that? Cork may have had a slight knock. Last season Cork started 8 more games than Hammond and was the only Saints player to play in every game. You only need to watch them regularly to see which is the better player. Technically Cork is far superior to Hammond.

calm down

I think he was just enforcing the belief some may have that Dean Hammond, the Skipper won't be binned just yet

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

Starting line of that article:

 

"NIGEL Adkins has so far signed two new players for Saints’ Premier League return, with a third expected to arrive soon."

 

Then....

 

"The St Mary’s boss has so far brought in a striker, a central midfielder and a left back."

 

Now my maths isnt the best but 1) Striker (Jay Rod) 2) Central Midfielder (Davis) and 3) Left Back ???

 

I can only assume it is Buttner but from the above it says 'already signed'?!

 

Echo poor reporting or do they know something about it already being confirmed? I am pretty sure they are talking about Buttner anyway unless I have completely missed something?

[Matthew Le God]

calm down

I think he was just enforcing the belief some may have that Dean Hammond, the Skipper won't be binned just yet

 

Do you think Hammond will be " the skipper" next season? I don't, it will probably be either Steven Davis or Jose Fonte. Davis as a former captain of Rangers and his country along with likely playing a lot of games would seem a good choice.

 

I did also say Hammond may well be kept on for this season. After that I think Adkins/Cortese will want to evolve the squad some more to the next level.

[Sour Mash]

Do you think Hammond will be " the skipper" next season? I don't, it will probably be either Steven Davis or Jose Fonte. Davis as a former captain of Rangers and his country along with likely playing a lot of games would seem a good choice.

 

I did also say Hammond may well be kept on for this season. After that I think Adkins/Cortese will want to evolve the squad some more to the next level.

Fonte won't be our Captain.

[Thedelldays]

Do you think Hammond will be " the skipper" next season? I don't, it will probably be either Steven Davis or Jose Fonte. Davis as a former captain of Rangers and his country along with likely playing a lot of games would seem a good choice.

 

I did also say Hammond may well be kept on for this season. After that I think Adkins/Cortese will want to evolve the squad some more to the next level.

I could not care less who is the skipper...I really could not.

for some reason, in England we seem to really get our teeth into who is the captain of the 11 on the field....it really makes no great difference.

that is amplified for the national team to endless headlines and stories and outrage

 

at least we agree that you think hammond will be kept on....

[Turkish]

Cork and in particular Davis have both been regulars for Premier League sides. Not a "guarantee", but when can you ever get a guarantee a player will do well?

 

Sorry, when and for who was Cork a regular in a premier league side?

[Matthew Le God]

Fonte won't be our Captain.

 

Which is why I said Steven Davis or Jose Fonte. Davis is far more likely, I just gave two options.

 

Fonte was captain last season for a significant time - every minute Hammond wasn't on the pitch and Hammond started 31 games out of 46 in the League.

 

Of course Fonte being captain would also depend on him getting a lot of game time, for all we know Adkins may bring in another centre back to replace Fonte in the starting XI. But until that happens I went with Davis and Fonte.

[Thedelldays]

Which is why I said Steven Davis or Jose Fonte. Davis is far more likely, I just gave two options.

 

Fonte was captain last season for a significant time - every minute Hammond wasn't on the pitch and Hammond started 31 games out of 46 in the League.

 

Of course Fonte being captain would also depend on him getting a lot of game time, for all we know Adkins may bring in another centre back to replace Fonte in the starting XI. But until that happens I went with Davis and Fonte.

why would he replace Fonte..?

you seem to be throwing around a lot of "matter of fact"

[Matthew Le God]

Sorry, when and for who was Cork a regular in a premier league side?

 

His loan spell at the end of the 2009/10 season at Burnley.

 

From February 9th to May 9th he played in 11 games (8 starts). Not a long period admittedly, but in that loan he looks like a regular to me.

Edited 9 July, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[The Kraken]

His loan spell at the end of the 2010/11 season at Burnley.

 

From February 9th to May 9th he played in 11 games (8 starts). Not a long period admittedly, but in that loan he looks like a regular to me.

 

From where are you getting those stats?

 

The site I'm using is incomplete.

Edited 9 July, 2012 by The Kraken

[Matthew Le God]

why would he replace Fonte..?

you seem to be throwing around a lot of "matter of fact"

 

I didn't say he would replace Fonte, I said "for all we know Adkins may bring in another centre back to replace Fonte". I don't see why that is unreasonable? Especially given the squad definetly needs more centre backs, any new ones may well be better than the ones already here and I think Hooiveld is the stronger of the current ones, so Fonte's place would be more under threat.

[Matthew Le God]

From where are you getting those stats?

 

The site I'm using is incomplete.

 

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=45288&season_id=139

[The Kraken]

I previously had it in my mind that Cork was at Burnley for a lot longer than 11 league games.

[Matthew Le God]

I previously had it in my mind that Cork was at Burnley for a lot longer than 11 league games.

 

After they were relegated from the Premier League he played for them on loan for an entire season in the Championship, which is where the confusion may have come from perhaps?

Edited 9 July, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[Guan 2.0]

I previously had it in my mind that Cork was at Burnley for a lot longer than 11 league games.

 

He was i think? Two seperate loans.

[badgerx16]

if people had there way our promotion winning side would dismantled completely. Chaplow and Hammond were important cogs in the wheel, not our fringe players.

 

Presumably you agree with the need for strengthening the squad, and many of these additions will be brought in with the intention of their being first 11 starters, ( otherwise it defeats the theory of 'only bring in players who are better than those we have' ). In which case, several of last years first team squad will have to make way, if only by being shunted onto the bench. Last years squad was never going to be good enough.

[The Kraken]

After they were relegated from the Premier League he played for them on loan for an entire season in the Championship, which is where the confusion may have come from perhaps?

Probably, yep. i hadn't really looked at it but kind of always assumed he had a full Premier League season behind him.

 

Give it a year and he will have....

[Patrick Bateman]

It's a bit like reading a condensed rehash of everything squabbled about on here.

 

Amen.

[SNSUN]

IMO we'll bring in a GK, CB, RM and one surprise attacking player. We'll keep some of the players that the Echo mentions too as squad players. Dickson should leave, but is resigned to sticking around at the club on his bigger salary, Chaplow, Puncheon and Hammond will be useful too at some point. Harding and Barnard will sadly leave. Still, we'll see, there's still nearly 2 months to go until the end of the transfer window. I think our early season form (which I predict to be dire) may see one or two unxpected players be brought in, such as an extra CB or a RB.

Edited 9 July, 2012 by SNSUN

[Thedelldays]

I really hope it won't just be 3 more signings. Seems suicidal given we're desperate for 2 keepers, 2 CBs and a right winger.

 

Perhaps he means loans too, or 3 in the next week or so. I'd say we need 3 going straight into the team, CB, RB and RM, with another 3 as competition. I can't imagine they're actually thinking about playing Seaborne or Forecast?

why are we "desperate" for 2 keepers..?

[hutch]

why are we "desperate" for 2 keepers..?

We aren't. It's the one area where the 25 man squad rule can be waived in an emergency.

[Give it to Ron]

why are we "desperate" for 2 keepers..?

 

Especially when we played a number of games last season without one on the bench ;-)

Luckily sanity finally rules and everyone now can have 7 again.

[david in sweden]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/9805422.More_market_moves_to_come_from_Adkins/?ref=eb

 

Halfway mark on signings this week sounds right. Three in and three more to come. The Echo assessment of who the club will want to move out lists the most obvious ones:- Dickson, Harding, Puncheon, Hammond, Forte, Barnard. Wonder if Chaplow should be added to that list, but the Puncheon saga shows its not that easy to move on players who are on decent wages and prefer pay over play.

 

 

Agree with just about everyone EXCEPT Hammond. We need "cover " for every position and although he may not be Prem.class on first viewing he deserves a chance (like everyone else) and will surely be needed at some stage in the season.

Chaplow and Puncheon may disappear in part-ex. / loan deals before the season starts.

[scotty]

if people had there way our promotion winning side would dismantled completely. Chaplow and Hammond were important cogs in the wheel, not our fringe players.

 

 

At the risk of rehashing what has been endlessly pointed out before, our poor spell last season coincided with Chaplows time out injured. I cannot understand why so many on here seem to want rid of him.

[david in sweden]

At the risk of rehashing what has been endlessly pointed out before, our poor spell last season coincided with Chaplows time out injured.

I cannot understand why so many on here seem to want rid of him.

 

 

 

Something which I'd pointed out some time ago on another thread, but sadly after his return he wasn't a shadow of his former self.

Let's hope that he has a good pre-season and has a chance to be part of the 25 squad.

[ericb]

I'd be incredibly dissapointed if Hammond was anywhere near the team next season, he's not good enough for the prem in the slightest and is at best a journeyman championship player.

 

For me he needs to be got rid of, Chaplow would make a passable back up in the premier league but even with him i'd prefer to find someone better. Neither of those two have the ability to keep the ball well enough for the premier league and they are both more than a little reckless in the tackle which'll lead to suspensions in the premier league.

 

To be honest with you i really think we're going to struggle since a hell of a lot of our squad isn't up to it and without at least four more signings i don't think we're up to the quality needed to stay up.

 

It's an unpopular point of view i know but i think a realistic one based on the quality of our players.

[Turkish]

/\ when you consider all 3 of the relegated teams made the play offs with arguably weaker teams than they were relegated with in our promotion season and we only Managed 2 wins in 6 games against them it puts into perspective where we are right now. Unfortunatly realistic doesn't seem to be welcome on here and is called nagatife instead.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Hammond is our best player imho

[Verbal]

Hammond is our best player imho

 

And go...

[ericb]

Big difference between realistic and choosing to focus on 4 games we didn't win. Meaningless IMO. Not saying we'll do well or badly, just think it had absolutely no impact on it.

 

Perhaps that's true but then many will point to us holding our own for 60mins against united in a cup game as a reason our players are good enough. Personally i think watching the team over the course of the season home and away is my rationale.

 

Aside from probably 5/6 (pre jay rod) players most are championship players at best. Now i'm hoping that Adkins/Cortesee think the same and strengthen since we really are stepping up against in next season.

 

I mean is anyone else not filled with dread at the prospect of a first team starting against Man City that might include Hammond, Richardson, Fonte and Davis? As good as some of those players have been last season i'm personally terrified of how easily they'll get found out and taken apart by good players.

 

Oh and then there'd be a bench that would include Chaplow and Seaborne...

[Saint Fan CaM]

Can't see Chaplow or Hammond being released before a number of other players to be honest. Barnard, Forte, Forecast, Puncheon could well be ahead of those two IMO.