What did Duncan (Fitzhugh Fella) say on Radio Hampshire?

[stthrobber]

Why do you persist with such a poor line of argument???

 

Just because other teams may or may not have the same problems with Chairman, managers, players or luck doesn't mean it is acceptable for us as well.

 

I take no solace from the fact that Watford or Norwich or Charlton are suffering.

 

Of course we have no divine right to grace the top flght, so to suggest that people think that and to suggest that we should be happy because there are other teams who are also in the mire is such a tired and pathetic line.

 

I don't think it's a poor line of argument. As it happens I believe the money in football is distributed to ensure the likes of us don't get bigger than the current top 4, one of whom is only there because it's rich git's plaything.

 

Just as we have no divine right to be a Prem club doesn't mean we also have no divine right not to struggle at our current level, financially or otherwise.

 

It is clear that Lowe and Wilde's return to the club has caused the old rifts to reopen, but I also suspect the reality was that they never really healed in the first place.

 

We just seem to be going round in circles at the moment, not even treading water. Two successive boards have failed to take us forward from where we were when Lowe left.

 

Lowe predicted it would be a long hard struggle to turn the club around and he's right, it's turned out to be just that. He also said it wasn't going to happen overnight, and again that's turned out to be true.

 

So when people say they want him out, are they proposing an alternative or do they just want him out for the sake of it? I don't ask from the luvvie perspective, just asking what people really want in view of the fact that a buyer has not come forward to buy him/them out.

[Mole]

Well, I don't know about you, but I think that speaks more about Duncan's own personal issues with Lowe than it does about his love for SFC.

 

Well, i don't know about you, but i think that speaks more about Bern's own personal issues with Duncan than it does about his love for SFC.

[Mole]

We just seem to be going round in circles at the moment, not even treading water.

 

It's all very reminiscent of the Birsmarck - and we all know that sunk.

[St Landrew]

I don't think it's a poor line of argument. As it happens I believe the money in football is distributed to ensure the likes of us don't get bigger than the current top 4, one of whom is only there because it's rich git's plaything.

 

Just as we have no divine right to be a Prem club doesn't mean we also have no divine right not to struggle at our current level, financially or otherwise.

 

It is clear that Lowe and Wilde's return to the club has caused the old rifts to reopen, but I also suspect the reality was that they never really healed in the first place.

 

We just seem to be going round in circles at the moment, not even treading water. Two successive boards have failed to take us forward from where we were when Lowe left.

 

Lowe predicted it would be a long hard struggle to turn the club around and he's right, it's turned out to be just that. He also said it wasn't going to happen overnight, and again that's turned out to be true.

 

So when people say they want him out, are they proposing an alternative or do they just want him out for the sake of it? I don't ask from the luvvie perspective, just asking what people really want in view of the fact that a buyer has not come forward to buy him/them out.

 

There appears to be a lot of sense in what you say. Rupert says that it will be a long hard struggle to turn the club around, and it won't happen overnight. That is perfectly true, if you happen to be looking at SFC from the Rupert Lowe point of view, and what is best for the club from his perspective. His perspective being that he leads the club to better times and profits from that, whether the fans want him or not; whether they turn up to support the club on matchdays, or not. Rupert cannot see that the struggle could be made much easier if he was no longer involved, and that his percentage be bought out at the earliest opportunity that is both favourable to the club and him. I'm sure that if he announced that he was actively pursuing enthusiastic investors to buy his share out, so that the club could once again become united, the morale around Southampton would leap three-fold. But through his own personal fog, he cannot see that, from the perspective of the vast majority of supporters, he is not wanted. He's a Doug Ellis with no money. I pity the bloke for being so blinkered.

[um pahars]

I do think RL is a divisive figure but I don't think the attendance cost of that devisiveness is that significant (100's not 1000's of fans) .

 

The attendance cost is twofold, direct and indirect.

 

Firstly, there is the direct effect of those that won't go whilst he is in charge. I have no idea how large that figure is, but I fear your estimates are on the low side.

 

Secondly, there are those who aren't going as an indirect result of his major decisions, i.e. his choice of manager and the "revolutionary coaching set up" which has underperformed.

 

What I do know is that we are in the financial doo doo and any boardroom shuffling or managerial shuffling will cost cash we don't have.

 

I'm not sure that I agree that we can again use the financial constraints as an excuse for why we can't initiate change on the managerial front.

 

The manager should be the most important person at any football club and we should endeavour to move heaven and earth to make sure we have the best person that we can at the Club (of course within the obvious constraints of money, reputation and status).

 

Altough there may well be a cost involved in changing the manager, my increasing fear is that the cost of not changing the manager will be horrendous!!!!

 

As others pointed out on another thread, one of the characteristics of a good manager is his ability to get the best from the playing assets he has. I am an advocate of stability, but as was the situation with Wigley, not stability for stablity's sake. There may well be a time shortly when we may have to act on the managerial front to arrest our decline.

[um pahars]

I don't think it's a poor line of argument. As it happens I believe the money in football is distributed to ensure the likes of us don't get bigger than the current top 4, one of whom is only there because it's rich git's plaything.

 

Just as we have no divine right to be a Prem club doesn't mean we also have no divine right not to struggle at our current level, financially or otherwise.

 

But just because others are struggling dosn't mean we have to just accept it when we are in the same position. Not only is that pretty defeatist, negative and pessimistic, but it also conveniently ignores the reasons why we find ourselves in such a predicament.

 

The reason why we are struggling is down to our "revolutionary coaching set up" underperforming and nothing to with the position Watford, Norwich or Charlton find themselves in. We will be the masters of our own success or failure.

 

I am fully aware that football is a great leveller and that over a season you get what you deserve.

 

I could just as easily retort that we should be doing a Wolves, Birmingham or Reading, but that would be just as pathetic as their status, form and position is just as irrelevant to our own situation.

Edited 16 November, 2008 by um pahars

[Sundance Beast]

To be fair, SES, Sundance was only responding to what Gordon Mockles had written.

 

 

 

God knows why I'm coming to his defence after some of the guff he's posted about me!

 

Thank you Wes, if you are prepared to support injustices no matter who the target is then perhaps I have misunderstood you and we have more in common despite our polarised opinions on the current situation at the club.

 

Its a pity the owners and mods of this forum don't share your values. Seems you can't call an old manager a joke name like McEnemy without an infraction or ban but insult a fellow poster with regard to their sexual deviances or laugh about the state of their mental health then that is considered fair game, unless of course they are old school and anti-Lowe.

 

Anyway, I appreciate your time to respond in my defence and I will try and continue to debate with you but hopefully in mutually more measured tones in the future. However, there are many on this forum who clearly do not merit any level of respect.

 

Regards

SB

[stthrobber]

But just because others are struggling dosn't mean we have to just accept it when we are in the same position. Not only is that pretty defeatist, negative and pessimistic, but it also conveniently ignores the reasons why we find ourselves in such a predicament.

 

But the problem is doing something about it UM. I don't like it, but I do accept our position but do not see any short term solutions to improve it.

 

The question I was asking is Lowe goes, what do they propose happens in his place?

 

He's introduced a long term strategy which he and the board patently feel will work in the long term. It's quite obvious that short term, it has been a failure, but if they believe that in the 2nd half of the season, the team will learn and adapt and improve then I don't know what to suggest that will keep people happy.

 

I was not happy with the appointment of JP, not because people think he's a Lowe yes man with strings attached to his arms and legs, but because he's a foreign coach with no experience at our level, and no experience whatsoever of the English leagues.

 

So what do people think they can personally do to change our current situation, assuming Lowe was to leave again, then what? Would fans be happy with that, or if they want the whole of the current board out, again, then what?

[um pahars]

Its a pity the owners and mods of this forum don't share your values. Seems you can't call an old manager a joke name like McEnemy without an infraction or ban but insult a fellow poster with regard to their sexual deviances or laugh about the state of their mental health then that is considered fair game, unless of course they are old school and anti-Lowe.

 

Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.:-({|=

 

You sound like a whingeing five year old, it's not fair, it's not fair LMFAO.

 

(It's a shame you didn't have the balls to call Crouch & McMenemy those names to their faces, but of course you had that last minute meeting up north:rolleyes:)

[um pahars]

But the problem is doing something about it UM. I don't like it, but I do accept our position but do not see any short term solutions to improve it.

 

But that is a totally different (and reasonable) response to our current predicament.

 

Just saying, "Look at Watford, Charlton and Norwich, they're shiy7 as well, and they aint got Lowe" is just ridiculous, irrelevant and lame.

 

The one solution that might be there short term is to relieve the manager of his position. A new guy may have to work within the same constraints and with the same playing squad, but may be able to squeeze better results (he might start with two up front at home for starters!!!!!!!).

Edited 16 November, 2008 by um pahars

[Snowballs2]

But that is a totally different (and reasonable) response to our current predicament.

 

Just saying, "Look at Watford, Charlton and Norwich, they're shiy7 as well, and they aint got Lowe" is just ridiculous, irrelevant and lame.

 

The one solution that might be there short term is to relieve the manager of his position. A new guy may have to work within the same constraints and with the same playing squad, but ne able to squeeze better results (he might start with two up front at home for starters!!!!!!!).

 

Good post Steve...I still believe that many of the few Pro Lowe posters are people who enjoyed regular contact with the powers that be in SMS in the past. Direct contact with Lowe and Cowan

[Mole]

Good post Steve...I still believe that many of the few Pro Lowe posters are people who enjoyed regular contact with the powers that be in SMS in the past. Direct contact with Lowe and Cowan

 

Well you could have a point. Without mentioning any names a certain Welsh supporters club did get special treatment.

 

Edited 16 November, 2008 by Mole

[Sundance Beast]

Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.:-({|=

 

You sound like a whingeing five year old, it's not fair, it's not fair LMFAO.

 

(It's a shame you didn't have the balls to call Crouch & McMenemy those names to their faces, but of course you had that last minute meeting up north:rolleyes:)

 

Talking of respect..........BTW Um Pahars a few thousand of us posters must have had last minute meetings that night and it obviously grates with you that you were one of the 20 clowns to go along and support that particular circus. (The rest of the crowd was made up of plants, F&F and until their eviction journalists). I suspect you still suffer from the cringe and embarrassment factor of going especially with the dubious quality of the question master/compere. For the record I think I was attending my son's parent's night, so not sure where this meeting up north comes into it, still when have you let facts get in the way of trying to score a few points. Bye Steveeeeeeeeee.

 

I like the violin - just a pity you can only play one song.

[Sundance Beast]

Well you could have a point. Without mentioning any names a certain Welsh supporters club did get special treatment.

 

 

Wasn't Halloween last month? When did the car keys go in the pot, looks like the bloke in the foreground has jusr drawn the keys for the Transvestite's Allegro.

 

Which one is Abigail? Truly frightening.

[Beckster Von Doodle]

There appears to be a lot of sense in what you say. Rupert says that it will be a long hard struggle to turn the club around, and it won't happen overnight. That is perfectly true, if you happen to be looking at SFC from the Rupert Lowe point of view, and what is best for the club from his perspective. His perspective being that he leads the club to better times and profits from that, whether the fans want him or not; whether they turn up to support the club on matchdays, or not. Rupert cannot see that the struggle could be made much easier if he was no longer involved, and that his percentage be bought out at the earliest opportunity that is both favourable to the club and him. I'm sure that if he announced that he was actively pursuing enthusiastic investors to buy his share out, so that the club could once again become united, the morale around Southampton would leap three-fold. But through his own personal fog, he cannot see that, from the perspective of the vast majority of supporters, he is not wanted. He's a Doug Ellis with no money. I pity the bloke for being so blinkered.

 

But nobody is offering to buy Lowe out, and there are no other options other than Lowe. As for searching for investors you may be right the announcement may have a short term effect, but what happens when none come along - some on here will be accusing him of not doing enough, scuppering bids etc.

 

If only he was Doug Ellis who I think you will find has a bit more dosh than you think.

[PAULACZT]

The really sad thing is that true supporters like Crouch who have actually got wealth, unlike Rupert and his group, are now finished with this club....Leon and others actually put time and hard cash into the club, but Rupert and his friendly most friends, who have not put a penny in but sucked the club dry, and now only have their investments as their sanctuary,and that is truly their only interest!! Stock is diminishing daily, on and off the field,but Rupert..Andrew...Guy 'Love lane, romsey' Askham,and the others who know who they are, watch..secretly ashamed but not knowing what the f..k to do after allowing Rupes to control the train set..which he enjoys...poor old JP and more importantly Wotte, whose CV's smack of nearly but not quite...oh and why did Wotte leave the Netherlands so quickly...lets all rejoice though in the knowledge that Rupet has invented a "revolutionary new coaching set up" where we dispense with anyone over 2k per week and try and wing it....my god how the tide has turned...it is now more obvious than ever that the only reason Rupes walked back into town was to protect his own investment...we once had a club..now we have_

[Mole]

Guy 'Love lane, romsey' Askham

 

What does the middle bit mean please?

 

BTW great post - 100% agree.

[Amesbury Saint]

it is now more obvious than ever that the only reason Rupes walked back into town was to protect his own investment...we once had a club..now we have_

 

 

I want Lowe gone. He is a disaster for the club.

However, if he has only returned to protect his investment, how can his current plan we working.

 

Poor results, low crowds, increasing overdraft etc

 

His shares must be pretty worthless.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I want Lowe gone. He is a disaster for the club.

However, if he has only returned to protect his investment, how can his current plan we working.

 

Poor results, low crowds, increasing overdraft etc

 

His shares must be pretty worthless.

 

Not in Lowe's world they're not!

[Daren W]

Talking of respect..........BTW Um Pahars a few thousand of us posters must have had last minute meetings that night and it obviously grates with you that you were one of the 20 clowns to go along and support that particular circus. (The rest of the crowd was made up of plants, F&F and until their eviction journalists). I suspect you still suffer from the cringe and embarrassment factor of going especially with the dubious quality of the question master/compere. For the record I think I was attending my son's parent's night, so not sure where this meeting up north comes into it, still when have you let facts get in the way of trying to score a few points. Bye Steveeeeeeeeee.

 

I like the violin - just a pity you can only play one song.

 

Only one song? oh the irony.. One of the most boring, one track posters on here thinks Um only has one song. If you only got how stupid you sound, you might almost come within million miles of having a point other than freely insulting people.

 

Unlike Um I'm actually glad the mods have let you back on here. No doubt crying and running off to others, screaming how unfair the TSW is, has obviously paid dividends for you...

 

Now... Perhaps you'd care to repeat on here what you were saying about me on Saints Fun B-Anter?

 

http://www.b-anter.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4150&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

 

 

What was I again? A tin rattler and a thug who had threatened, what did you say, to "sort you out"?

 

Now considering the only thing I've ever suggested is you grow a pair and say to my face what you so freely behind say my back within the comfort and safety of your pc, your version of things is all rather high pitched and hysterical.

 

You do come across as being the Christopher Biggins of this board. I can imagine you squealing in a high pitched voice to mods that I'd threatened you and implied violence and how horrible I was abusing your 'uman rights by suggesting you not insult people with impugnity and dare to actually say it to my face rather than from behind your mothers skirt...

 

Oh, and to spare you the time, just cut and paste this tired old insult. It never ceases to silence me...

 

"You're not exactly (insert highbrow sports journalist that SB has googled and thinks sounds good) are you?"

 

"Blah blah blah tin rattler, blah blah perceived local super fan, blah blah blah talks about cancer a lot..."

 

Let's see if you're as mouthy on a messageboard where you know I post eh?

[stthrobber]

Well you could have a point. Without mentioning any names a certain Welsh supporters club did get special treatment.

 

 

Ah, that old chestnut

 

Just to put the record straight, we have never had special treatment. We have received exactly the same benefits as any other supporters group and less in many cases.

 

I have never been a guest of RL or AC at SMS, and any corporate functions we have attended individually or as a group has been paid for by ourselves.

 

Who are this lot by the way? We are much better looking

[Mole]

C'mon Puala.

 

Looked on Google Earth and it looks a bit middle class for where i'd expect Askham to live. Checked the property prices and they're all around circa £300,000.

 

What's the Loves lane connection with Askham?

 

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=love+lane+romsey&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&resnum=1&ct=title

[Mole]

I have never been a guest of RL or AC at SMS

 

But you've been a guest of theirs somewhere else....:cool:

[stthrobber]

But you've been a guest of theirs somewhere else....:cool:

 

Er, not to my knowledge, though have have both been our guests on one occasion many years ago.

 

AC has been here a few times, even when he wasn't at the club.

 

For info, I always felt links between the club and supporters was very good prior to Lowe's departure. Those links were destroyed by Hone and his group and they have remained closed ever since.

 

Sorry mate, I really don't have the ear of anyone at the club. Nick Illingsworth does though

[Mole]

Nick Illingsworth does though

 

Nicks irrelevent now in my eyes. When he jumped on the takeover roadshow the other week he lost any credibility he may have had. He's supposed to be chairman of the Saints Trust FFS.

[Alain Perrin]

The attendance cost is twofold, direct and indirect.

 

Firstly, there is the direct effect of those that won't go whilst he is in charge. I have no idea how large that figure is, but I fear your estimates are on the low side.

 

I agree that no one can know the true figure. I do think there are many who use Lowe as a convenient excuse for nagging wife / credit crunch / young children etc. etc.

 

In terms of true noble sacrifice I suspect we are talking 100's.

[um pahars]

I agree that no one can know the true figure. I do think there are many who use Lowe as a convenient excuse for nagging wife / credit crunch / young children etc. etc.

 

In terms of true noble sacrifice I suspect we are talking 100's.

 

I do fear that for many his return and the sacking of Pearson was probably the final straw (when added to all the other reasons). Totally unable to prove either way, but the plain fact is that we are missing quite a few thousand fans.

 

I'm sure the home form and lack of success is by far the biggest factor for the fallen gate, but there is nothing at the Club to galvanise and get the fans to rally around.

 

I like the way Jan conducts himself sometimes, but I don't really find him inspirational nor someone the fans can rally around. There's no real afinity with any player (except Killer who isn't featuring), and then of course both Wilde and Lowe have absolutely no chance of convincing the fans to follow them.

 

Therefore we desperately need some good wins on the pitch if gates are to rise, but I struggle to see us doing this on a regular basis with the current team and tactics. And if 17,000 is no longer the break even figure, I fear we will be going down the pan quicker than many fear.

 

I'm sure there will be a firesale in January and the stayaway fans will get the blame, conveniently forgetting that there are two sides to this relationship and those in charge have seriously underperformed on their part!!!

[Mole]

Therefore we desperately need some good wins on the pitch if gates are to rise, but I struggle to see us doing this on a regular basis with the current team and tactics. And if 17,000 is no longer the break even figure, I fear we will be going down the pan quicker than many fear.

 

I really hope so. Admin is going to happen sooner or later so we might as well get the show on the road.

 

I'm sure there will be a firesale in January and the stayaway fans will get the blame, conveniently forgetting that there are two sides to this relationship and those in charge have seriously underperformed on their part!!!

 

Lowe blaming the stayaways would be music to my ears as the reason i'm staying away is to deprive the Lowe/Wilde PLC of money.

[saintwarwick]

I really hope so. Admin is going to happen sooner or later so we might as well get the show on the road.

 

Is it though

 

 

 

Lowe blaming the stayaways would be music to my ears as the reason i'm staying away is to deprive the Lowe/Wilde PLC of money.

 

The PLC existed before Lowe/Wilde came back, did you support it then?

[aintforever]

I really hope so. Admin is going to happen sooner or later so we might as well get the show on the road.

 

Being so close to admin surely doesn't tie in with the fact that we have brought in 12 players plus given Perry a contract since last season?

 

Championship clubs on the brink don't sign players on loan from Chelsea or 3rd choice keepers from Spurs. Plus spend decent money on untried French kids. We might be skint but I expect admin is quite a way off, Lowe is not exactly renowned for throwing money around we don't have.

[Gemmel]

Being so close to admin surely doesn't tie in with the fact that we have brought in 12 players plus given Perry a contract since last season?

 

Championship clubs on the brink don't sign players on loan from Chelsea or 3rd choice keepers from Spurs. Plus spend decent money on untried French kids. We might be skint but I expect admin is quite a way off, Lowe is not exactly renowned for throwing money around we don't have.

 

On the surface and the "back of fag packet maths" (which is all we have to go on) it would seem that Administration is all but upon us, but you are right, we have continued to spend, (If only on wages) which is not a sign of a club on the verge of administration. Not sure what to make of it all.

[Beckster Von Doodle]

I do fear that for many his return and the sacking of Pearson was probably the final straw (when added to all the other reasons). Totally unable to prove either way, but the plain fact is that we are missing quite a few thousand fans.

 

I'm sure the home form and lack of success is by far the biggest factor for the fallen gate, but there is nothing at the Club to galvanise and get the fans to rally around.

 

I like the way Jan conducts himself sometimes, but I don't really find him inspirational nor someone the fans can rally around. There's no real afinity with any player (except Killer who isn't featuring), and then of course both Wilde and Lowe have absolutely no chance of convincing the fans to follow them.

 

Therefore we desperately need some good wins on the pitch if gates are to rise, but I struggle to see us doing this on a regular basis with the current team and tactics. And if 17,000 is no longer the break even figure, I fear we will be going down the pan quicker than many fear.

 

I'm sure there will be a firesale in January and the stayaway fans will get the blame, conveniently forgetting that there are two sides to this relationship and those in charge have seriously underperformed on their part!!!

 

 

But I am not sure what could have been different, we had to redeuce our costs and got rid of 7 or 8 senior players over the summer, plus two or three out on loan. I am not sure Pearson was sacked, you might have said that it isn't clear, there was obviously a diffierence of opinion somewhere.

 

I think we end up back at the OK who should have been in charge? What I do concede is that it is the results that are causing the falling gates, it is the lack of know how from JP downwards that is causing this and we need a goal scorer, that final thing alone wouldd have probably increased our points tally by some 50% this season.

 

I think who ever was in charge woud have had to make the same decisions regarding cost cutting but may have employed a different manager - throbber makes a good point though this has been sold as a long term plan and 6 months is not long term, perhaps we are being over eager in expecting visable results in 15 games or so.I am not sure that relagation from the CCC means quite as much financially as it did from the PL and in some respects if we can ahve a good season in the lower league it may mean a return of some of the crowd. I suspect though it will be just another excuse to batter Lowe.

 

We need cash, and until we have it there is little anyone can do.

[Greenridge]

 

and we need a goal scorer, that final thing alone wouldd have probably increased our points tally by some 50% this season.

 

 

And the sad thing is we have this solution completely within our own hands as we have several proven goalscorers on the books, all of which are now at other clubs. This short sighted 'cost-cutting' measure could well be the deciding factor for this clubs' future. For those of you who will predictably shout 'we don't have any money' then ask yourself if the bank would prefer you in the CCC with a few thousand pounds more debt but the associated crowds (albeit sliding) and other trappings or in League 1 with sub-10K crowds. It shouldn't be difficult to come to the right answer.

[jonah]

But I'm hearing snippets that the bank aren't at all happy and things are getting pretty desperate.

 

Wow, lucky we're not a listed company to be alleging such a damaging and unfounded comment about the club's finances on a public board eh.

 

Where were you in the summer with your ideas of maintaining some stability??????

 

Oh the irony! "Let's go Wilde"! Top job by the Saints Trust in stabilising the club...

 

As usual there's the usual name-calling and personalisation of the argument, but no answer as to the viable alternative at the present time. I assume most of the posters on this thread are the same people who so intelligently sang "we want Rupert out" when our 11 players went 2-0 down on Saturday. Thankfully the normal fans got behind the team and drowned you all out. It's good to know some people still go to support the team and club. Then again, I'm sure another 12 months of concerted vitriol and you will be able to sing "we want Barclays out" against Rochdale next season.

[Wes Tender]

But I am not sure what could have been different, we had to redeuce our costs and got rid of 7 or 8 senior players over the summer, plus two or three out on loan. I am not sure Pearson was sacked, you might have said that it isn't clear, there was obviously a diffierence of opinion somewhere.

You are blinkered if you believe that the cost cutting had to follow precisely the path it did, especially as there have been several signings and loans coming in, who don't appear generally to add much.

 

I think we end up back at the OK who should have been in charge? What I do concede is that it is the results that are causing the falling gates, it is the lack of know how from JP downwards that is causing this and we need a goal scorer, that final thing alone wouldd have probably increased our points tally by some 50% this season.

 

We had two decent 20 goal a season strikers and another, Saganowski who could well be a 20 a season striker too. Instead of signing several nonentities, surely we could have kept at least one of them?

 

I think who ever was in charge woud have had to make the same decisions regarding cost cutting but may have employed a different manager - throbber makes a good point though this has been sold as a long term plan and 6 months is not long term, perhaps we are being over eager in expecting visable results in 15 games or so.

 

We don't have time for a long term plan. We are teetering on the verge of administration, for crissakes. The situation is desperate and this is no time for nonchalence and long term expedience.

 

I am not sure that relagation from the CCC means quite as much financially as it did from the PL and in some respects if we can ahve a good season in the lower league it may mean a return of some of the crowd. I suspect though it will be just another excuse to batter Lowe.

 

If it happens, too bloody right it will be an excuse to batter Lowe. You're naive if you believe that just because we might eventually have reached the level that we might win more matches than we do currently that people would give Lowe more latitude having gotten us relegated twice. And also you're naive to imagine that crowds would increase if we were winning in the third division too under Lowe. Even if there wasn't the impetus for a massive boycott until Lowe was gone, there sure as hell would be if we were in the third division. Mind you, I'm pretty sure also that we wouldn't survive administration anyway, if we dropped again.

 

We need cash, and until we have it there is little anyone can do.

 

There is plainly something that people can do if they are not happy with the fare that they are currently served and that is stay away. As things stand, whatever their reasons, that is a fact.

[Frank's cousin]

What I find difficult to understand at the moment is that the Wilde and Lowe seem so quiet.... now maybe they are just reacting to the criticism that they spent too much time in the limelight before, but given out current situation I would have thought some frank open and honest statements might help us understand the real situation rather than having to rely on rumour and gossip.

 

UP you mention the two way relationship - at present its seem there is no relationship - as fans, even those who still go out of pure loyalty - and I susuepct its those that want entertainment + Success as well that have stopped going in the main - are disillusioned and concerned , made worse by negative vibes all over the place - we need someone at the club who understands COMMUNICATYION (Not the the 'PR' placement of a weekly rallying call from this weeks eslected player - how they must dread getting the call up - on the OS), neither the free for all fan forum or radio phonne it etc, but an appropriate, decent honest account of the situation, from anyone who still has either credibilty or an affinity with fans. We need a talisman, a figurehead with which the fans can identify not atempting another 'ralling the troops' rubbish, but a gebuine attempt to LEAD, inspire and importantly manage expectations.... and we dont have such a person either on teh field or in the boardroom and perhaps that is currently a big problem.

 

Whatever we think of 'experiements', the reasons be it financial or naivety, that we are in this situation, one thing we as fans should at least try and do is be realistic. We have seen the constant tit-for-tat on here about our problemsa nd the team and the arguments for anad against the 'ideal' and 'strategy etc, but at the end of the day some realism might help us all reflect on what i actually important and what is not.

 

We have (for whatever reason good or bad) a side - a young side that if rumours be true are also not happy - that is inconsistent at best. We ALL know that a young side will be inconsistent and that we ned to maybe understand that whetehr we agree or not with how we got where we are, the personalities, politics and egos that have placed us where we are, teh feck ups and tantrums that have contribuited,... if we are to have any hope of turning any ind of playing corner we need to at least support those who are not teh cause of this - Jan and the kids - for them it was always going to be an uphill battle, naive and inexperienced youth that by its very nature needs time to mature needs our backing more than ever - they need to know we understand that for them its a learning process, and that we aren't going to contribute to the negativity on the pitch by impatience with THEM, that we understand the inconsistency is part of the development of a side and that we TRUST them to do the job - instill confidence and mettle, by showing our own resolve that whatever the 'bastards' in the boardroom or the financial turmoil thorughs at us fans, the TRUE Saints spirit is alive in us fans despite the best efforts of the powerbrokers at the club, and negative fans to extinguish it - If as the popular mantra used to go, 'a club is truely nothing woithout its fans' and that 'we are the club' , then maybe we need to accept that burden of responsibilty and live up to it depsite the misery inflicted by those in power?

 

The kids may have been thrust early into a 'mans' game, but by sticking to fingers in the direction of the Directors box and then getting on with the positive support we ARE capable of (we have proven this so many times when faced with the sh!t) we might just get these kids to the point where they can deliver more often than not. Is that really too much to expect from fans of this club?

[Scummer]

If only he was Doug Ellis who I think you will find has a bit more dosh than you think.

 

Wasn't that the point? Doug Ellis was disliked by the fans, as Lowe is, but as least Ellis plugged money into Villa.

[Scummer]

Wow, lucky we're not a listed company to be alleging such a damaging and unfounded comment about the club's finances on a public board eh.

 

Watch the shareprice plummet off the back of this rumour.

[Wes Tender]

Thankfully the normal fans got behind the team and drowned you all out. It's good to know some people still go to support the team and club. Then again, I'm sure another 12 months of concerted vitriol and you will be able to sing "we want Barclays out" against Rochdale next season.

 

The usual arrogance, inferring that anybody who objects to the current regime and voices their concerns at a match must somehow be abnormal. The regrettable truth is that many more who undoubtedly would have joined in with the protests were not there, having decided that they've had enough.

 

And you actually believe that it will be the vitriol that gets us relegated to the third division? I thought that you had more intelligence. Personally, I'd have believed that it depended more on factors such as winning or losing matches, unless of course you meant that we would be relegated because we were in administration. And whose fault is that? Oh yes; the fans. They're the idiots who stayed away in sufficient numbers when they should have acted like the mindless sheep you believe them to be, paying their hard-earned cash regardless of whether they can afford it, regardless of whether it is value, regardless of what their other thoughts are about the chairman, the manager, the team.

 

But of course, that is what the board expect of us, that they can do anything they like and we will blindly follow because we are fans, not like other customers who vote with their feet. Well, they are obviously mistaken about a section of those fans. Who are the Neanderthals? Those who blindly follow regardless, or those who have a mind of their own and make their own choices and judgements and have the guts to act on them?

[um pahars]

But I am not sure what could have been different, we had to redeuce our costs and got rid of 7 or 8 senior players over the summer, plus two or three out on loan..

 

Come on, don't be so naive.

 

Whoever came in would have had to work within our financial constraints, but there is a massive degree of latitude to what another manager could have done. We've brought in something like 11 or 12 players, so there must have been some latitude in there somewhere.

 

After that a different manager could employ different tactics, different formations and have different priorities.

 

To suggest we were forced down this path and there were no alternatives, no other ways of building a team and no other way of getting the team to play is ridiulous.

 

In fact, the path we have gone down was one that was specifically chosen as a way of getting us out of the mess we find ourselves in. The fact that, to date, it hasn't paid off is a seperate argument, but it was a conscious decision to follow this strategy.

 

I am not sure Pearson was sacked, you might have said that it isn't clear, there was obviously a diffierence of opinion somewhere..

 

Pearson was a dead man walking as soon as Lowe and Wilde got through the door. Those in the SOS group were aware of this months before Lowe and Wilde even called an EGM. Pearson was happy to work under the new regime and when he went off on holiday to Malta he actually thought he had the job.

 

Lowe and Wilde didn't want him, so they activated a release clause, which, however you dress it up, is getting the elbow.

 

I think we end up back at the OK who should have been in charge? What I do concede is that it is the results that are causing the falling gates, it is the lack of know how from JP downwards that is causing this and we need a goal scorer, that final thing alone wouldd have probably increased our points tally by some 50% this season..

 

JP (and othose who appointed him) must take a large share of responsibility for our poor perfromances.

 

And you highlight perhaps one of the fundamental problems with those running our Club at the moment i.e. the problem of looking beyond the action of purely cutting costs.

 

It is totally impossible to prove, but John's wages must be something like 1,000 on the gate, and you have to wonder what our gates would be like had he still been here, scoring and winning us some games????

 

Of course releasing him saved us money, but is it a false economy if the team suffers as a result of his departure and attendances suffer as well????

 

Methinks that some in SMS (wink, wink) thought that David McGoldrick was a ready made replacement.

 

I think who ever was in charge woud have had to make the same decisions regarding cost cutting but may have employed a different manager - throbber makes a good point though this has been sold as a long term plan and 6 months is not long term, perhaps we are being over eager in expecting visable results in 15 games or so..

 

And that could have been all that was needed. They may well have had to make similar decisions about cost cutting, but who was to go, who was to come in and perhaps more importantly, how we were going to play,were all up for grabs (of course there are no guarantees it would hav panned out better, but there is/was an alternative).

 

The problem is that as honourable as it is is to have a long term plan, you also have to balance it with the short term, because failure this season will render any long term plan obsolete.

 

I am not sure that relagation from the CCC means quite as much financially as it did from the PL and in some respects if we can ahve a good season in the lower league it may mean a return of some of the crowd. I suspect though it will be just another excuse to batter Lowe..

 

I think you seriously underestimate the consequences of relegation to Division 3. I think it would almost definitely result in us going into Adminsitration and the Club being turned over even more savagely than when we were relegated from the top flight.

 

We also heard a similar line last time around in that we were told at least we would win more games in this division!!!! Hasn't really gone to plan (wth the exception of the play off season).

 

I'm not sure about another excuse to batter Lowe, because even if some people think relegation last time was nothing to do with him, having it happen to you twice in the space of a few years might be slightly harder to brush aside.

 

We need cash, and until we have it there is little anyone can do.

 

I'm not sure I agree. I'm not advocating it (just yet), but sometimes a change of manager can bring about a change in direction. Some other things would need to change as well, but I maintain our cards haven't been fully dealt yet and there is still much within our own power that we can do to dictate how the remainder of the season pans out.

Edited 17 November, 2008 by um pahars

[um pahars]

Wow, lucky we're not a listed company to be alleging such a damaging and unfounded comment about the club's finances on a public board eh.

 

Did the Stock Exchange boys give you a bell when you were peddling your bullshiy7t propaganda that the Change of Control clause would be invoked and we would have to replay the 20million+ outstanding on the loan notes, in the run up to the EGM???

 

I'll await their call:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

If the FSA logged on to this board, then judging by your little whinge our crowds would go below 10,000 as most on here would be banged up.

 

Get over yourself.

[Master Bates]

Anyone seen this?

 

It would appear that Michael 'Judas' Wilde's days could well be numbered as the meaningless football chairman. It's being suggested in various quarters that Rupert Lowe wants former director and cronie Mike Richards as Chairman. In the forthcoming AGM the positions at the club have to be voted for that where given in May. Lowe could easily stop Wilde from retaining his role as the other large share holders Corbett, Crouch etc would not vote for Wilde. Richards as Chairman was on the agenda at a meeting held at the end of last year regarding the SISU offer. This is the same meeting that Wilde joked of Lowe having any power or 'director of football' role.

 

http://upthesaints.com/

[Gemmel]

Anyone seen this?

 

It would appear that Michael 'Judas' Wilde's days could well be numbered as the meaningless football chairman. It's being suggested in various quarters that Rupert Lowe wants former director and cronie Mike Richards as Chairman. In the forthcoming AGM the positions at the club have to be voted for that where given in May. Lowe could easily stop Wilde from retaining his role as the other large share holders Corbett, Crouch etc would not vote for Wilde. Richards as Chairman was on the agenda at a meeting held at the end of last year regarding the SISU offer. This is the same meeting that Wilde joked of Lowe having any power or 'director of football' role.

 

http://upthesaints.com/

 

How much truth there is in that remains to be seen, but taken with a pinch of salt, following longsshots post with wildes email, you could be forgiven for thinking lowe was planning his return the day he resigned.

 

Force Crouch onto the board, confident that he and wilde couldnt work together - Check

 

wilde and Crouch fall out - Check

 

Make up with Wilde and oust Crouch - Check

 

Give wilde a noddy title and himself the power - Check

 

Knowing the other shareholders won't back Wilde, propose your own man Richards to become chairman of Football club - TBA

 

If indeed this was or is the case, love him or loathe (and i can't stand the t@wt) you have to give it to him, he's a tricky little fooker.

 

I heard they are going to make a new Dallas film. The script writers should take a look at the SFC over the last 11 years, the back stabbing, double crossing and plots, should give them some execellent material.

Edited 17 November, 2008 by Gemmel

[Wes Tender]

Unless I have it totally wrong with how things operate with a PLC AGM, the board that became operational when Lowe and Wilde cosied up together has to be voted in at the AGM, right?

 

Also, if it is proposed that there will be further changes to the board, surely those changes have to be notified before the AGM and sent to all shareholders at the same time as the notification of the AGM and that there be a period wherein counter proposals can be put forward. Do I have that right?

 

Therefore, the proposal by Lowe's group that his toady Richards be Chairman of the Football Board instead of Wilde isn't something that will appear as if by magic out of the blue on the day of the AGM, or is the AGM purely for the PLC, a totally separate entity to the football board and once elected, able to do what it likes about the football board?

 

Perhaps somebody expert in these matters can explain. If it were something that had to be proposed beforehand, then of course all the shareholders would be in the know and able to counteract it, or indeed put forward their own proposals to be voted on.

 

For those who are old enough to remember, the TV series that is closer than Dallas with the goings on here is "The Power Game"

[Toomer]

Unless I have it totally wrong with how things operate with a PLC AGM, the board that became operational when Lowe and Wilde cosied up together has to be voted in at the AGM, right?

 

Also, if it is proposed that there will be further changes to the board, surely those changes have to be notified before the AGM and sent to all shareholders at the same time as the notification of the AGM and that there be a period wherein counter proposals can be put forward. Do I have that right?

 

Therefore, the proposal by Lowe's group that his toady Richards be Chairman of the Football Board instead of Wilde isn't something that will appear as if by magic out of the blue on the day of the AGM, or is the AGM purely for the PLC, a totally separate entity to the football board and once elected, able to do what it likes about the football board?

 

Perhaps somebody expert in these matters can explain. If it were something that had to be proposed beforehand, then of course all the shareholders would be in the know and able to counteract it, or indeed put forward their own proposals to be voted on.

 

For those who are old enough to remember, the TV series that is closer than Dallas with the goings on here is "The Power Game"

 

Perhaps Lowe is trying to do his version of the Labour party when they put Brown in office as PM with out going to the country.

[saintwarwick]

How much truth there is in that remains to be seen, but taken with a pinch of salt, following longsshots post with wildes email, you could be forgiven for thinking lowe was planning his return the day he resigned.

 

Force Crouch onto the board, confident that he and wilde couldnt work together - Check

 

wilde and Crouch fall out - Check

 

Make up with Wilde and oust Crouch - Check

 

Give wilde a noddy title and himself the power - Check

 

Knowing the other shareholders won't back Wilde, propose your own man Richards to become chairman of Football club - TBA

 

If indeed this was or is the case, love him or loathe (and i can't stand the t@wt) you have to give it to him, he's a tricky little fooker.

 

I heard they are going to make a new Dallas film. The script writers should take a look at the SFC over the last 11 years, the back stabbing, double crossing and plots, should give them some execellent material.

 

Priceless. Would be a blockbuster as well.

[ART]

Anyone seen this?

 

It would appear that Michael 'Judas' Wilde's days could well be numbered as the meaningless football chairman. It's being suggested in various quarters that Rupert Lowe wants former director and cronie Mike Richards as Chairman. In the forthcoming AGM the positions at the club have to be voted for that where given in May. Lowe could easily stop Wilde from retaining his role as the other large share holders Corbett, Crouch etc would not vote for Wilde. Richards as Chairman was on the agenda at a meeting held at the end of last year regarding the SISU offer. This is the same meeting that Wilde joked of Lowe having any power or 'director of football' role.

 

http://upthesaints.com/

 

Didn't I not post about the "Man in the Red and White Scarf" 8 months ago? It's always been on the cards when you take into consideration that Wilde is treading on dicey ground as a Tax Exil. Wilde was needed in order to force out Crouch and his cronies and happily went along with the plan. Wilde knows, as do a lot of folk, if they are to stand any chance of recuperating their money and keep the club from Administration, Lowe is your safest bet. Many don't like it but where are the alternatives?

 

And why are Lowe and Wilde so silent? That's a question you ought to ask Gordon Brown too. Maybe because he who laughs last, laughs the longest!

[Wes Tender]

Didn't I not post about the "Man in the Red and White Scarf" 8 months ago? It's always been on the cards when you take into consideration that Wilde is treading on dicey ground as a Tax Exil. Wilde was needed in order to force out Crouch and his cronies and happily went along with the plan. Wilde knows, as do a lot of folk, if they are to stand any chance of recuperating their money and keep the club from Administration, Lowe is your safest bet. Many don't like it but where are the alternatives?

 

And why are Lowe and Wilde so silent? That's a question you ought to ask Gordon Brown too. Maybe because he who laughs last, laughs the longest!

 

Richards spends much of his time on Guernsey, although I wouldn't know whether he is a tax exile there.

 

I well recall you posting after the Wilde proposed EGM when Lowe was ousted that you predicted that Lowe might be back some day unless somebody bought his and his cronies' shares. It didn't seem likely at the time, but you were right.

 

Regrettably, the current situation is no laughing matter for us and I doubt whether Lowe will be laughing much when he loses all his shareholdings when we go belly up.

[St Landrew]

But nobody is offering to buy Lowe out, and there are no other options other than Lowe. As for searching for investors you may be right the announcement may have a short term effect, but what happens when none come along - some on here will be accusing him of not doing enough, scuppering bids etc.

 

If only he was Doug Ellis who I think you will find has a bit more dosh than you think.

Just to explain:

 

I know Doug Ellis has plenty of money.

Doug Ellis was a hated chairman at Villa.

Rupert has no personal fortune large enough to control SFC on his own.

Rupert is a hated chairman of SH PLC.

 

Therefore my description that Rupert is a Doug Ellis figure, but with no money. And nobody is offering to buy Rupert out because he isn't looking to sell at anything other than a major gain.

[Snowballs2]

Ah, that old chestnut

 

Just to put the record straight, we have never had special treatment. We have received exactly the same benefits as any other supporters group and less in many cases.

 

I have never been a guest of RL or AC at SMS, and any corporate functions we have attended individually or as a group has been paid for by ourselves.

 

Who are this lot by the way? We are much better looking

 

 

From what I have been told I think you might be being economical with the truth ! Well so my contacts tell me.