Great performance by George Osborne today

[dune]

He put Balls right in his place.

[buctootim]

?? Osbourne said yesterday Ed Balls was involved in the LIBOR scandal but today was contradicted by his own aides. Osbourne is a liability to his party and the country.

[Seaford Saint]

Dune you only see what you want.

[trousers]

?? Osbourne said yesterday Ed Balls was involved in the LIBOR scandal but today was contradicted by his own aides. Osbourne is a liability to his party and the country.

 

The way I read the Spectator quote is that Osbourne was saying that Balls must have known which ministers Diamond was referring to, not that it was Balls himself that spoke to the Bank of England chap. When read in full context I think it can be interpreted both ways.

[Pugwash]

Osborne's aides now backtracking like mad. He knew he was wrong, was simply trying to smear the opposition. But then he's used to doing that.

[Pugwash]

The quote as reported in the Guardian:

 

"My opposite number, who was the City minister for part of this period and Gordon Brown's right-hand man for all of it … he has questions to answer as well. That's Ed Balls, by the way." Speaking of Brown's government, Osborne said: "They were clearly involved and we just haven't heard the full facts, I don't think, of who knew what when."

 

Seems pretty clear who Georgie-boy was referring to, no ambiguity there.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

This Commons spat is everything that is wrong with British politics. Politicians arguing like teenagers and trying to score points when what needs to happen is a proper enquiry and if necessary criminal proceedings.

[dune]

This Commons spat is everything that is wrong with British politics. Politicians arguing like teenagers and trying to score points when what needs to happen is a proper enquiry and if necessary criminal proceedings.

 

A full inquiry isn't wise. What is need is to brush this matter under the carpet. The last thing we need to be doing is encouraging another run on a bank especially when we the taxpayer are majority shareholders in many of them.

 

Use your brain.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

A full inquiry isn't wise. What is need is to brush this matter under the carpet. The last thing we need to be doing is encouraging another run on a bank especially when we the taxpayer are majority shareholders in many of them.

 

Use your brain.

 

Being told to "use your brain" by you is stupid as it gets on here. You're as consistent an idiot as they come.

[dune]

Being told to "use your brain" by you is stupid as it gets on here. You're as consistent an idiot as they come.

 

Well i'm afraid you demonstrate the same lack of intelligence as the majority of the public. We're going through a 1920's depression in slow motion (the can keeps getting kicked down the road this time though) and people like you and the idiots in the Labour party want to undertake open heart surgery on an industry who's immunity to infection is extremely weak. Now is not the time for undermining such a vital source of revenue for the exchequer (which we own to large extent). Now is the time for raising the drawbridge and protecting our national interests.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Source of revenue for the exchequer? Lol the Govt and Bank of England have been writing blank cheques for the banks for the last few years in case you forgot. Criminal proceeding against individuals won't cause a run on the banks get a grip.

[trousers]

The quote as reported in the Guardian:

 

"My opposite number, who was the City minister for part of this period and Gordon Brown's right-hand man for all of it … he has questions to answer as well. That's Ed Balls, by the way." Speaking of Brown's government, Osborne said: "They were clearly involved and we just haven't heard the full facts, I don't think, of who knew what when."

 

Seems pretty clear who Georgie-boy was referring to, no ambiguity there.

 

Osbourne is saying that Balls "has questions to answer".

 

Seems a reasonable stance to me.

 

I think we'd all agree that any government in power when something like this was going on under their noses would have questions to answer.

 

Of course, he may have been implying that he thinks Balls was fully aware of the conversations that his fellow ministers were having with this Bank of England chap who in turn was pressurising Barclays to think about what they could be doing differently with the Libor rate, but, being a politician Osbourne stopped short of a direct accusation. That's what all politicians are good at... saying what they want people to hear without actually saying it.

[dune]

Source of revenue for the exchequer? Lol the Govt and Bank of England have been writing blank cheques for the banks for the last few years in case you forgot. Criminal proceeding against individuals won't cause a run on the banks get a grip.

 

moodys downgraded barclays after the resignation of bob diamond (although granted there isn't much risk with Barclays), but all the banks have seen their equity price go down which means we the taxpayer are further away from being in a position to recoup our investment. All this weakens banks and the next thing you know we'll be back to 2009. Greece will likely leave the Euro in the final quarter of this year and do we really want that to come on top of a full blown inquiry, especially given the fact that in all liklihood Greeces exit will be a sucess for them and the contagion of their exit will thus spread to Spain and Italy whose people see Greeces example and change their pro Euro stance.

 

The sensible approach to investment banking is not punishment and retribution - that's a waste of time and time we do not have to waste. What is needed is a brief parliamentary chinwag to establish what went wrong, and then measures to ensure they don't happen again. This is what the Conservatives want to happen and it is correct way to go.

Edited 5 July, 2012 by dune

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

The banks need to be subjected to the rule of law just like everyone else. Can't believe that you of all people want Govt intervention to protect them, didn't have you down as a socialist

[Monk]

More interested in this.

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/real_life/4413452/Im-a-26-stone-pageant-princess.html

[dune]

The banks need to be subjected to the rule of law just like everyone else. Can't believe that you of all people want Govt intervention to protect them, didn't have you down as a socialist

 

It's not about protecting them, it's about about protecting us. I really don't think people like you realise just how precarious the situation is. There's a hell of a lot more sh/t that needs to hit the fan, i.e Greece exiting the Euro followed by Spain, Italy and the rest of the peasant farmers from the south. And make no mistake when these countries do exit they will do so without warning and the banking sector will face massive losses. I'm currently back in equities (which i'm nervous about) but decided to jump back in when the ftse was well down at the end of may, but the next crisis is looming again and i'm thinking i need to cash out again soon because more and more analysts are speculating that Greece is secretly printing Drachmas.

 

I see De la rue have posted good results. A new contract perhaps, or perhaps the expectation for new contracts in the not too distant future.

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKL5E8GT1PT20120529

 

Then there's more pointers. Gold has stopped weaking.

 

http://www.kitco.com/charts/historicalgold.html

 

And corporate bond yields are still rising at healthy rate. Off the top of my head it's round about 9% in the past year and in the past month rises are strong contrary to the foolish advice from some that they were all their money at the start of the year.

 

Oh and the incompetent ECB have just cut interest rates (as part of their too little too late strategy).

 

So in summary all the pointers are pointing towards worse to come, but that needn't be a bad thing if our government does the right things to mitigate against the circumstances, and alleviating unnecessary strain on British banks with minimal fuss over the Libor "scandal" is within their power. And in any case I personally don't see it as a scandal because the action taken to essentially commit fraud was IMO the right thing to do at the time. If you think back to the situation with Northern rock and people queing up to withdraw their money - and the subsequent bailout that was needed - that could have been Barclays and those that did require bailouts (who also manipulated Libor) would have been in even deeper sh/t.

Edited 6 July, 2012 by dune

[trousers]

Banks contribute 11% of the entire UK's tax revenues. True story. Although, granted, that figure would be less if Jimmy Carr paid tax) :-)

[badgerx16]

Banks contribute 11% of the entire UK's tax revenues.

 

Is that the true figure, or the one they have manipulated to make things look more promising than they might actually be ?

[trousers]

Is that the true figure, or the one they have manipulated to make things look more promising than they might actually be ?

 

I thought I'd stumbled back into the Pompey Takeover Saga thread for a split second when I saw that question....

[solentstars]

He put Balls right in his place.

sorry i think tory boy is a prat who acts like hes still at public school and.he should never be his present job and hopefully he will be replaced by someone who can be do the job..im not impressed by ed balls either its embarrassing for parliment to see two schoolboys playing modern day flashmen idiots.

[GenevaSaint]

moodys downgraded barclays after the resignation of bob diamond

 

Incorrect, they put Barclays on negative watch. And we're going to get a bunch of MPs (cross party) to investigate mal-practice? They're hardly the whitest of white in meeting policies now are they, bunsh of ****esters.

[buctootim]

Banks contribute 11% of the entire UK's tax revenues. True story. Although, granted, that figure would be less if Jimmy Carr paid tax) :-)

 

 

Bank tax receipts = £65billion

Bank bailout cost = £1.16trillion

 

 

Hmm

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Dune - thanks for the investment advice. Btw how are the HMV shares getting on?

[dune]

Dune - thanks for the investment advice. Btw how are the HMV shares getting on?

 

I wouldn't know, i took a small hit and sold long ago.

[RedAndWhite91]

Don't get me wrong, I cannot STAND Ed Balls. I cannot stand Labour. But I wouldn't call Osborne's performance 'great', I'd call it embarrassing. He accused Balls of being involved but when asked by Balls, couldn't provide any evidence. I don't know enough about it to really add anything to this thread but it's of my opinion that Balls had the upper hand, certainly now after Osborne has backtracked on the accusation.

 

Also embarrassing, was when the Speaker had to eventually shout "Shut up! Do you understand?" after everyone was shouting and squabbling. These are the people who are supposed to run our country, acting like naughty schoolchildren in a class that has a substitute teacher. No wonder we're in a mess...

[Verbal]

Dune - thanks for the investment advice. Btw how are the HMV shares getting on?

 

One of the great comedy moments in the history of financial advice.

[Lord Duckhunter]

There have been allegations that involve "senior Government figures" from that time. Therefore anyone close to Brown and the Treasury certainly have questions to answer.

 

Andrew Neil broke it down on This Week whilst questioning Alistar Campbell and from Campbell's heated response( on a programme which is normally pretty sedate) suggest to me that maybe there are some skeltons in some senior closets. Neil said there are two strands to this. From 2006-08 bankers fixed the rate for personal gain. When the economy went into meltdown in 2008, did Labour have discussions with Barclays about fixing the rate to make them look more secure than they were? Remember barclays is one bank that refused a bail out from UK PLC. Campbell was trying to blur the two entirely different "fixes" of the rate, and Neil kept trying to ask him specfically about the 2008 fix. Added to this Baroness Vadera's statement that she has "no recollection" of a conversation. In politics "no recollection" is like "friends of" or "sources close to" or "misled" instead of lie. "No recollection" is basically, I did but I doubt if you can prove it. However, if evidence emerges later I can stand up and say I didn't lie, I just forgot."

 

Really waiting to see Gordon in front of the enquiry. Praising Barclays and other banks in 2006 he said “I congratulate you, on remarkable achievements, an era that history will record as the beginning of a new golden age for the City of London.”

[Foxstone]

Osbourne !!

 

Reminds me of Oliver Seaton Mollusc in Monty Pythons Upper Class Twit of the Year !

[badgerx16]

Osbourne !!

 

Reminds me of Oliver Seaton Mollusc in Monty Pythons Upper Class Twit of the Year !

 

Taking the bra off the 'Deb'.

[View From The Top]

They are all as bad as each other. I'd prefer a judicial review as, to me, it strikes be as "old boys" looking into "old boys", or "vested interest" looking into "vested interest".

Edited 6 July, 2012 by View From The Top

[alpine_saint]

He put Balls right in his place.

 

They're both prize c**ts.

[JPTCount]

have the conservatives managed to actually solve a scandal yet, or are they just coming too quick and fast?

 

hunt has been forgotten about in all this and liam fox is back doing the rounds. the next scandal can only come too soon.

[Lord Duckhunter]

have the conservatives managed to actually solve a scandal yet, or are they just coming too quick and fast?

 

hunt has been forgotten about in all this and liam fox is back doing the rounds. the next scandal can only come too soon.

 

At least it's one minister, one scandal.

 

The last lot had a BOGOF offer taken up by Blunkett & Mandleson .

[JPTCount]

At least it's one minister, one scandal.

 

The last lot had a BOGOF offer taken up by Blunkett & Mandleson .

 

and the endless 'but sir, he did that too, and it was much worse when he did it sir, honest' continues, i don't have a party allegiance. i don't agree with most of the '97 labour government onwards.

 

my point was that this government has been amazing at being able to come up with a new scandal even before the last one has died away, regardless of whether u are tory or not, u should be able to see this.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Tory MP says that Osborne should apologies to Balls:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18778111

 

Quote:

BBC political correspondent Gary O'Donoghue said there was a sense from some Tory MPs he had spoken to that the chancellor "may have messed up on this" because the attack went wrong and "he didn't have the evidence to back up what he was saying".

[rooney]

Tory MP says that Osborne should apologies to Balls:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18778111

 

Quote:

BBC political correspondent Gary O'Donoghue said there was a sense from some Tory MPs he had spoken to that the chancellor "may have messed up on this" because the attack went wrong and "he didn't have the evidence to back up what he was saying".

Surely Slimey George has not got things wrong again. Yet another U turn perhaps?

[dronskisaint]

At least it's one minister, one scandal.

 

The last lot had a BOGOF offer taken up by Blunkett & Mandleson .

 

Or you could have even more fun rewinding to the 'back to basics' family value era of John Major, Eggwina, Neil Hamilton....there's always a danger when living in glass houses and being allowed access to stones

[trousers]

It's curious how people in positions of power seemingly know nothing about what is going on when things go pear shaped yet they have their fingers in every possible pie when something good has happened.

 

It sounds like Osborne made the wrong accusation. Rather than having the temerity to assume that someone senior in the Treasury knew what Britain's banks were up to, he should have accused them of not having a Scooby Doo what was happening.

 

The "we knew nothing about it" excuse used across the political and business spectrum is becoming a somewhat tiresome 'defence'.

 

Ignorance is the new incompetence.

[View From The Top]

It's curious how people in positions of power seemingly know nothing about what is going on when things go pear shaped yet they have their fingers in every possible pie when something good has happened.

 

It sounds like Osborne made the wrong accusation. Rather than having the temerity to assume that someone senior in the Treasury knew what Britain's banks were up to, he should have accused them of not having a Scooby Doo what was happening.

 

The "we knew nothing about it" excuse used across the political and business spectrum is becoming a somewhat tiresome 'defence'.

 

Ignorance is the new incompetence.

 

Wasn't the whole point that these bankers were secretly manipulated LIBOR so how could/should have ministers known if by its very nature it was secret?

 

It's like saying the Secretary of State for Health should have known about Shipman!

[trousers]

Wasn't the whole point that these bankers were secretly manipulated LIBOR so how could/should have ministers known if by its very nature it was secret?

 

It's like saying the Secretary of State for Health should have known about Shipman!

 

Fair point - I was talking more in general I guess.

 

That said, they showed a graph on TV news the other day of the Libor rate in relation to Barclays dealings and there was a marked shift around the very time that Darling and co were trying to stabilise the banking system.

 

This indicates to me that there was public domain information out there if the powers that be wanted to monitor 'unusual patterns' in the industry.

 

Yes, appreciated, there was probably too many woods and too many trees when all this was happening but my hunch is that it wouldn't have been impossible to detect the changes in dealing and exchange rate patterns had someone deemed it important enough to do so.

 

Hindsight? Maybe. Foreseeable? Possibly.

[View From The Top]

Fair point - I was talking more in general I guess.

 

That said, they showed a graph on TV news the other day of the Libor rate in relation to Barclays dealings and there was a marked shift around the very time that Darling and co were trying to stabilise the banking system.

 

This indicates to me that there was public domain information out there if the powers that be wanted to monitor 'unusual patterns' in the industry.

 

Yes, appreciated, there was probably too many woods and too many trees when all this was happening but my hunch is that it wouldn't have been impossible to detect the changes in dealing and exchange rate patterns had someone deemed it important enough to do so.

 

Hindsight? Maybe. Foreseeable? Possibly.

 

As I understand it The Treasury were concerned regarding LIBOR & Barclays but that was more to do with the interpretation that if the bank was being charged more than other banks on the money markets then perhaps the bank was in trouble & they knew that they couldn't let such a huge bank fail.

 

It would appear that the simple explanation that individual greedy fu.ckers were colluding to manipulate the rate for their own ends wasn't deemed feasible by HMG or the BoE until after the end of the Credit Crunch.