Deano6 Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Technically awesome and very, very composed for a young lad. Seem's very intelligent with regards to playing out from the LB area and I do know, he has been encouraged to start travelling infield with the ball. Best way to describe him? A perfect combo of Bale and Bridge. So Bale then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieDog Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 If he wanted to go then there's no point keeping him against his wishes as the likelihood would be that he would become disillusioned and fail to fulfil his potential. Hopefully he would see that his development would be best served here where he has a sniff of the first team in the next couple of years (rather than like Jack Cork who just got loaned out everywhere before getting the message he wasn't going to get in the first team squad at Chelsea). If he does go, then 4 mill sounds OK - as an upfront payment. If he is as good as they think then we should load it up massively with future add-ons and percentage of future transfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeySFC Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 If he wanted to go then there's no point keeping him against his wishes as the likelihood would be that he would become disillusioned and fail to fulfil his potential. Hopefully he would see that his development would be best served here where he has a sniff of the first team in the next couple of years (rather than like Jack Cork who just got loaned out everywhere before getting the message he wasn't going to get in the first team squad at Chelsea). If he does go, then 4 mill sounds OK - as an upfront payment. If he is as good as they think then we should load it up massively with future add-ons and percentage of future transfer. Two Words. John Bostock. Was a promising player for Palace years ago, had his head turned by his agent and Spurs, and in 5 years made 3 appearances for Spurs' 1st team, ridiculous waste of talent. Unfortunately these days clubs like Chelsea/City/Arsenal come in, offer £20-35,000 a week wages + a sign on bonus of £2million + £4-10million for the parent club and thats it, he's off. No matter how loyal a player is, an agent will turn his head to make a quick buck for himself, and it seems Chelsea, Arsenal etc. are all likely destinations. Have to say my gut feeling is this is BS, and even if it's true he won't leave us at the moment. If we go down he'll definitely go I would imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSaint Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 God this is so refreshing. Hoping that he wants to make a bit of a name for himself here (which he should) and stay for at least a couple more seasons if he's as good as he sounds. This season is shaping up well. Be nice again to have some exciting youngsters in defense come through and shine - ie Bale,Bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 I suggest they bunk him with Cork, who can then advice him all about his prospects at Chelski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 (edited) Can't see him going -and I guess people are talking in the abstract for they surely they cant believe a single, quoteless paragraph, right> And if he does stay, it will have absolutely nothing to do with our ambition (as some waywardly suggest). Comparisons with Walcott, Bale and Oxo are off the mark -they all played competitive games and were closer to the first team, whether ours or potential suitors (Chelsea have one of the best LBs in the world). Shaw is not at that level- if he's lucky he might feature in the league cup this season. But even that's not certain. In other words, Shaw will stay with us until he thinks he's ready to jump ship -ironically our lack of ambition might be an incentive to stay in the short-term for as long as we're not doing to a city and buying would class players in every position, there will still be decent opportunities to play and progress with us. Edited 3 July, 2012 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 we have already turned dowb a bid of 3 million from arsenal so dont see why we would accept 4 from chelsea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintchris23 Posted 3 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 July, 2012 It's interesting to read that we rate a youngster who hasn't started a game yet, at 'way' more than £4m. Interesting in comparison with someone like Jarvis for example, who Wolves fans rate at £10m plus. The Premier League certainly inflates a players value. I especially like the comparison with Jordi Alba at £8m.....now, if Saints were to use the £4m from the sale of Shaw and spent another £4m plus wages on Alba (had he not joined Barcelona), then we'd all be creaming ourselves. And quite rightly so. So the moral? If he does leave, then it's not the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 If we are not interested, why are we so heavily linked to Büttner ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 If we are not interested, why are we so heavily linked to Büttner ? Because we want better than Fox and Harding. Shaw isn't ready for week in - week out PL football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 If we are not interested, why are we so heavily linked to Büttner ? Or perhaps we're intending to rid of Dickson and Harding and/or NA wants the flexibility to use AL in a different role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbob40 Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 He can then go and fester with the other 50 promising starlets at Chelsea from around the world and never see the light of day again or be loaned out for 5 years to all sorts of clubs. A lot of these big clubs are graveyards for young players. He's better off where he is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Cortese did a fantastic job convincing Lallana to sign a 5 year deal. Let's see if he can do the same with Shaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Cunning Stunts Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 He has signed a professional contract. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2228492,00.html So is this piece in the independent wrong then? If it is, you need to tell them :-) http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/chelsea-to-bid-4m-for-saints-teenager-shaw-7904418.html?origin=internalSearch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Technically awesome and very, very composed for a young lad. Seem's very intelligent with regards to playing out from the LB area and I do know, he has been encouraged to start travelling infield with the ball. Best way to describe him? A perfect combo of Bale and Bridge. If thats the case why the hell dont we keep him and start using him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 So is this piece in the independent wrong then? If it is' date=' you need to tell them :-) http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/chelsea-to-bid-4m-for-saints-teenager-shaw-7904418.html?origin=internalSearch[/quote'] I see his 17th birthday is on the 12th July so maybe he wants to join Chelsea - also would explain signing Buttner....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 According to the OS in May, he agreed 18 months ago to sign a Pro contract when he turns 17 his month. I expect he's going to feel some heat in the next 10 days. If the "agreement" from 18 months ago is in anyway binding, then that's not really fair to a 16 year old. But that's agents for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 I see his 17th birthday is on the 12th July so maybe he wants to join Chelsea - also would explain signing Buttner....... It just explains the timing imo. Chelsea are hoping to bully Saints by saying 'Play nice, take the £4m, its a generous offer since you dont have him under contract. We will turn his head anyway and a development fee from a tribunal will be less. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 (edited) According to the OS in May, he agreed 18 months ago to sign a Pro contract when he turns 17 his month. I expect he's going to feel some heat in the next 10 days. If the "agreement" from 18 months ago is in anyway binding, then that's not really fair to a 16 year old. But that's agents for you. Well if that's correct he's on a pre-contract agreement, as Theo was when he left at 16 years old. The tribunal system these days is much better (fairer to the selling club) than it used to be, but is still a bit of a risk. Still with only 9 days to go until his 17th birthday I'm sure we could just neglect to pick up the phone for a few days.... EDIT: Here's the link on the OS, he HASN'T yet signed a professional contract. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2776895,00.html "Luke will begin a professional contract when he turns 17 in July, having joined five other Academy players in agreeing to do so 18 months ago". Edited 3 July, 2012 by The Kraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Gut feel says, in this instance, he would be mad to go. Even if he is good as everyone says (I have no idea) that probably only means he's going to get 15-20 appearances for us, in the Prem. Which probably equates to three or four cup run outs for Chelsea were he to go there. He is better off at Saints but don't count on it. We've got dough but I doubt we're about to start paying 17 year olds thirty grand a week. Especially one with basically no first class football in the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 I hope not, but if he does it'll blow a big hole in the spin. On the other hand if he stays it will give credence to our ambitious spiel. This is just the acid test we need - Are we prepared to use financial clout to fend off competition? Do our players buy into the vision that is so talked about? We'll know soon enough, surely we won't fall down at the first hurdle... Tedious in the extreme. Twice you had to post the same question before someone bothered to answer you and it was no surprise who did. Zzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Every thread I've looked at lately takes that route it seems. A shame but it seems nothing can be done about it. I don't know about other threads, but with this thread it is perfectly reasonable to make the point given the circumstances of what is being discussed. Make no mistake this is the perfect acid test to see whether Cortese's words (and the huge credence that is put on the said words by some MLG) are to be taken seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 I don't know about other threads, but with this thread it is perfectly reasonable to make the point given the circumstances of what is being discussed. Make no mistake this is the perfect acid test to see whether Cortese's words (and the huge credence that is put on the said words by some MLG) are to be taken seriously. No its not. Chelsea have been a glamour side for years and will be playing in the CL next year. They train at Cobham where LS grew up and he is a Chelsea fan. He'd be making a mistake to go (more so than going to Arsenal) but it wouldnt necessarily set any precedents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emerson massey Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Tedious in the extreme. Twice you had to post the same question before someone bothered to answer you and it was no surprise who did. Zzzz This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 No its not. Chelsea have been a glamour side for years and will be playing in the CL next year. They train at Cobham where LS grew up and he is a Chelsea fan. He'd be making a mistake to go (more so than going to Arsenal) but it wouldnt necessarily set any precedents. It would set a precedent. It would clearly show that a) We are club that desires to cash in on our youngsters b) We are a club without the vision that makes youngsters want to stay. Both of these failures would clearly imply that we are not a club that is looking to mix it up at the top of the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 No its not. Chelsea have been a glamour side for years and will be playing in the CL next year. They train at Cobham where LS grew up and he is a Chelsea fan. He'd be making a mistake to go (more so than going to Arsenal) but it wouldnt necessarily set any precedents. Well it would, actually. The point has been made before, by a number of posters, that as we're back in the PL and with wealth behind us we are in a much better position with our academy as our young players are now much LESS likely to leave early than Walcott, Bale and AOC were. Of course Chelsea are a big club, so were Arsenal & Spurs when they came in before, so its a very valid comparison to make if Shaw does decide to leave (I have a hunch its unlikely he'll go). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWY Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 He has signed a professional contract. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2228492,00.html No mention of the length of the contract. The article is from Dec 2010. My guess would be 2.5 years. That would mean we've got until Christmas to tie him up longer. It all depends on the lad really, if he want's to go 4M would be a fair price. Hopefully this is newspaper BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 It would set a precedent. It would clearly show that a) We are club that desires to cash in on our youngsters b) We are a club without the vision that makes youngsters want to stay. Both of these failures would clearly imply that we are not a club that is looking to mix it up at the top of the Premier League. So if he does stay this summer, is the reverse of what you said true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 No mention of the length of the contract. The article is from Dec 2010. My guess would be 2.5 years. That would mean we've got until Christmas to tie him up longer. It all depends on the lad really, if he want's to go 4M would be a fair price. Hopefully this is newspaper BS. Check the link provided above (post #70); he can't sign a pro contract until 17 years old, what he has signed is a pre-contract agreement. So his pro contract will (as it stands) kick in on 12th July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 (edited) He has signed a professional contract. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2228492,00.html No mention of the length of the contract. The article is from Dec 2010. My guess would be 2.5 years. That would mean we've got until Christmas to tie him up longer. It all depends on the lad really, if he want's to go 4M would be a fair price. Hopefully this is newspaper BS. Yes, it does! It says in the last paragraph before the personal profiles... "We are proud to be able to list the following players as having signed their first professional contracts at our football club, all of whom have put pen to paper on a three year deal." It wouldn't be from December 2010, it would be from his 17th birthday. 12th July 2012 to 30th June 2015. It was a pre-contract he signed, he can't easily get out of that. Edited 3 July, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 (edited) So if he does stay this summer, is the reverse of what you said true? I've already said this. Hence me calling this the first acid test. No doubt if he does go there will be a collective display of fingers in ears, backtracking, adjustments of positions to explain it, and persecution complexes. Edited 3 July, 2012 by dune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 (edited) Well it would, actually. The point has been made before, by a number of posters, that as we're back in the PL and with wealth behind us we are in a much better position with our academy as our young players are now much LESS likely to leave early than Walcott, Bale and AOC were. Of course Chelsea are a big club, so were Arsenal & Spurs when they came in before, so its a very valid comparison to make if Shaw does decide to leave (I have a hunch its unlikely he'll go). Its not a valid comparison for all the reasons I gave. To think that if a Chelsea fan doesnt't turn down playing in the CL for Chelsea then that blows apart the argument that Saints are less likely to lose talent now we are in the PL and have money - is facile. Saints are now in a much better position to retain the stars coming through than last season and infinitely stronger position than when we were in admin. It doesnt mean we can win all battles with all clubs for all players always. Players will always have personal preferences, Chelsea and Man U lose players too. Edited 3 July, 2012 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Seems utterly bonkers to me that a player of this age/experience can be worth £4m. On the upside, shows that investing heavily in the academy really can be a growing money-making machine for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Its not a valid comparison for all the reasons I gave. To think that if a Chelsea fan doesnt't turn down playing in the CL for Chelsea then that blows apart the argument that Saints are less likely to lose talent now we are in the PL and have money - is facile. Saints are now in a much better position to retain the stars coming through than last season and infinitely stronger position than when we were in admin. It doesnt mean we can win all battles with all clubs for all players always. You're over-reacting. No-one has said that it blows the argument apart. Simply that it sets a precedent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWY Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Yes, it does! It says in the last paragraph before the personal profiles... "We are proud to be able to list the following players as having signed their first professional contracts at our football club, all of whom have put pen to paper on a three year deal." It wouldn't be from December 2010, it would be from his 17th birthday. 12th July 2012 to 30th June 2015. It was a pre-contract he signed, he can't easily get out of that. Sorry missed that.That puts us in a much stronger position hence the 4m opening bid from Chelsea. I still think it depends on what Shaw wants.We might get 6M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 (edited) ... Edited 3 July, 2012 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 You're over-reacting. No-one has said that it blows the argument apart. Simply that it sets a precedent. Ooh goody. A semantics argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Ooh goody. A semantics argument. If you're saying it wouldn't set any precedent, at all, then fair enough, we'll have to agree to disagree. I believe it would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Seems utterly bonkers to me that a player of this age/experience can be worth £4m. On the upside, shows that investing heavily in the academy really can be a growing money-making machine for us. 4 mil is not big money to the likes of Man City or Chelsea. If we are desiring to challenge these clubs surely it should not be seen as big money to us. As for our academy being a money making machine, fine if that is the purpose, but once again this isn't condusive with the vision of us being a top of the league side. It's quite simple, if you sell your best players you and don't sign top players you cannot regularly expect to challenge for the champions league. What is so controversial about such an assertion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Ooh goody. A semantics argument. No anti Jewish jokes on here please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 No anti Jewish jokes on here please Oi vey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 obviously, if shaw goes or stays it won't confirm or blow any argument out of the water. what this situation does tells..how much of a draw a PREM saints are to kids....even when we give him a first team squad number and go on about wanting this players to eventually be our first team players.. going to chelsea simply will not do him any good really...but £££££ talks most of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 obviously, if shaw goes or stays it won't confirm or blow any argument out of the water. what this situation does tells..how much of a draw a PREM saints are to kids....even when we give him a first team squad number and go on about wanting this players to eventually be our first team players.. going to chelsea simply will not do him any good really...but £££££ talks most of the time Would Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal sell their brightest young stars? Would the brightest young stars wish to leave said clubs at such a young age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 This is the time for Cortese to show how far the club has come. We have given away Bale, Chamberlain & Walcott and got relatively little in return - stick his heels in. If Shaw wanted to leave that much then he shouldn't have signed a 3 year contract. If all those clubs want him then he is clearly quality, and we have known for a while he was the next superstar from our Academy. Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City can have him...in four years time for 25m. Until then: no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbert Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 i have. Going to jump down my throat for that? Or would you like my opinion on something? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 It would set a precedent. It would clearly show that a) We are club that desires to cash in on our youngsters b) We are a club without the vision that makes youngsters want to stay. Both of these failures would clearly imply that we are not a club that is looking to mix it up at the top of the Premier League. Doubt it would demonstrate much. FWIW my money's on Shaw staying if simply because we're not going to do City and there is no evidence as yet of huge ambition. . As long as we are in the Prem, the less ambitious we are, the more -rather than less, likely players like Shaw will stay. After all, the lad knows he's never played a competitive game and realises there are more opportunities to break into the first team with us. Whether he stays or not will depend not on our ambition but our ability to assure and offer him chances to shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 This is the time for Cortese to show how far the club has come. We have given away Bale, Chamberlain & Walcott and got relatively little in return - stick his heels in. If Shaw wanted to leave that much then he shouldn't have signed a 3 year contract. If all those clubs want him then he is clearly quality, and we have known for a while he was the next superstar from our Academy. Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City can have him...in four years time for 25m. Until then: no thanks. I totally agree. Actions speak louder than words. Over to you Cortese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Would Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal sell their brightest young stars? Would the brightest young stars wish to leave said clubs at such a young age? but we are not those clubs...we are a lower half prem club right now. no matter what our ambitions are for the next 10 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Serious question. Would you rather retain young players with promise OR sign Rory Delap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintstr1 Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Jordi Alba is only costing Barca £8m. I think you will find it is more like £14m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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