sidthesquid Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Before anyone gets to excited, I'm not suggesting that we are anywhere near as good as Spain, but the way they keep possession, keep recycling the ball, probing and prodding, passing the opposition into submission, is very similar to our own style. (Italy were the only other team to come close to it - no coincidence they both made the final.) It is about confidence and ability on the ball, not pace or aggression, and teams like huff-and-puff England looked to be playing a different sport. I am intrigued to see if we have the courage to play like it in the Prem, because if we do, we will do well against the old-fashioned style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Its similar to out style of play. But an Aston Martin is similar to a Robin Reliant, on the basis that they are both cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 I didn't see too many long balls into the back post to the big striker during to tournement so it's a no from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 we do hit long balls far too often to be considered to play the "total football" people think we do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 We do generally have periods where we play really good football, normally once we're already winning. We rarely hoof it from the keeper, but it normally goes out to the full backs or the CB who has gone relatively wide, and then send diagonal balls to Lambert who then wins a header, knocks it down and then we play from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 We both play in red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 ermm...well both Spain and us play with a football and have 11 players at the start of the game...thats about it really. I did think England playing with Carroll up front looked a bit like saints...except our players can read Lamberts flick ons and react to them and the England players seemed to make no effort to get to Carolls flick ons at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 But an Aston Martin is similar to a Robin Reliant, on the basis that they are both cars. An excellent comparison really,we just need the missing wheel,the other half of the engine and a better braking system and we'd be just like Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Their movement off the ball is ridiculous, and at times that was what made the difference for us, the fluidity compared to other teams in our league. But they don't rely on a couple of players like we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didcot Saint Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Before anyone gets to excited, I'm not suggesting that we are anywhere near as good as Spain, but the way they keep possession, keep recycling the ball, probing and prodding, passing the opposition into submission, is very similar to our own style. (Italy were the only other team to come close to it - no coincidence they both made the final.) It is about confidence and ability on the ball, not pace or aggression, and teams like huff-and-puff England looked to be playing a different sport. I am intrigued to see if we have the courage to play like it in the Prem, because if we do, we will do well against the old-fashioned style of play. Yep, Swansea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsaint Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Yes, they reminded me of Barcelona. HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 It needs instant ball control and passing which is precise and perfectly weighted. It's unusual to find this anywhere in the english game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 There's a lot of truth in the OP - we are attempting to move towards that style of play. But then so are many other teams to be fair. There are two key attributes to enable success in this style of play - (a) fitness/stamina, to enable movement off the ball to be realised throughout 90 minutes and (b) pass accuracy, for hopefully obvious reasons! We have improved both of these elements of our play since Adkins and Co have been managing the team and seen the results in two promotions. Now, the real question is - are there teams in the Prem who have players that can do these things better than our players? Clearly, yes. To my mind this will be one of the most exciting aspects of the coming season - seeing how we compare to Prem teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colehillsaint Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 I think Germany is a better comparison in terms of our directness v patience blend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 There's a lot of truth in the OP - we are attempting to move towards that style of play. But then so are many other teams to be fair. There are two key attributes to enable success in this style of play - (a) fitness/stamina, to enable movement off the ball to be realised throughout 90 minutes and (b) pass accuracy, for hopefully obvious reasons! We have improved both of these elements of our play since Adkins and Co have been managing the team and seen the results in two promotions. Now, the real question is - are there teams in the Prem who have players that can do these things better than our players? Clearly, yes. To my mind this will be one of the most exciting aspects of the coming season - seeing how we compare to Prem teams. yes Spanish football is the new black.... we can all look forward to ball achingly boring games of tip tappy ball possessoin playing 4-6-0 can't wait.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 yes Spanish football is the new black.... we can all look forward to ball achingly boring games of tip tappy ball possessoin playing 4-6-0 can't wait.... yeah, clearly that doesnt work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 first half of the season maybe, but certainly not the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 yes Spanish football is the new black.... we can all look forward to ball achingly boring games of tip tappy ball possessoin playing 4-6-0 can't wait.... This. The reason they cut through the Italians 4 times last night is because the poor Azzurii had dozed off in boredom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 yeah, clearly that doesnt work Of course it works, any numb nuts can see that, that's why everyone wants to play that way ...****ing boring to watch though. Effective football isn't always the same as entertaining football .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 This. The reason they cut through the Italians 4 times last night is because the poor Azzurii had dozed off in boredom. They weren't the only ones who could have thought a game with four goals could be so ...meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 first half of the season maybe, but certainly not the second half. What do you think caused us to adapt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 yes Spanish football is the new black.... we can all look forward to ball achingly boring games of tip tappy ball possessoin playing 4-6-0 can't wait.... Spain were boring for a lot of the tournament, but last night they were excellent. I can't abide the 4-6-0 formation but last night it worked to complete effect and they were a joy to watch. How strange that what they criticised for most often, tippy tappy football and keeping the ball, are the exact same skills that English footballers seem incapable of. Our "lump it up to the big man" approach is so outdated, yet it seems to be what a lot of the public want. That and "English passion", whatever the hell that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 They weren't the only ones who could have thought a game with four goals could be so ...meh Each to his own but at no point during last night's game was I bored. I found the match riveting. Just a pity the Italians went down to 10 as they were no threat once that happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Its an interesting discussion, this. Personally, I find watching Spain about as entertaining as watching gloss paint dry. But their style appears to be effective (even if its only by taking advantage of unforced errors caused by sheer energy-sapping tedium) and it appears to be gaining in popularity. Personally I despair at the notion that it is perceived that we play like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 How the hell an any true football fan find Spain boring to watch ? They are magnificent to watch, the ball control, the team ethics, the pinpoint passing it's brilliant. England will never be as exciting as them to watch as we cant keep the ball for longer thatn 1 minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Spain were boring for a lot of the tournament, but last night they were excellent. I can't abide the 4-6-0 formation but last night it worked to complete effect and they were a joy to watch. How strange that what they criticised for most often, tippy tappy football and keeping the ball, are the exact same skills that English footballers seem incapable of. Our "lump it up to the big man" approach is so outdated, yet it seems to be what a lot of the public want. That and "English passion", whatever the hell that is. I think people want to be entertained at the end of the day..if I look back at the euros the two matches I enjoyed watching the most England-Sweden and Germany- Poland not the best technical football by a long way but fun emotional roller coasts of games that were exciting to watch. Never got remotley excited watching Spain for all their obvoius technical ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 The only similarity between us and Spain last night is we both failed to sell our allocations for a major game (M'Boro) away from home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 I think people want to be entertained at the end of the day..if I look back at the euros the two matches I enjoyed watching the most England-Sweden and Germany- Poland not the best technical football by a long way but fun emotional roller coasts of games that were exciting to watch. Never got remotley excited watching Spain for all their obvoius technical ability. Exactly this. Much rather see end to end attacking football, than a team passing it back and forth across the half way line for 20 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Anybody would think that this passing possession football was something new and revolutionary, but the all conquering Liverpool used to play like that once. And apparently the "hoof it to the big man upfront" is updated. But I seem to recall Italy using that tactic to devastating effect against Germany. No reason why a mixture of tactics between the two could not be the ultimate way to keep the opposition guessing as to what you'll do next. When a team become too predictable, rival managers suss out ways to outplay you tactically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 I think people want to be entertained at the end of the day..if I look back at the euros the two matches I enjoyed watching the most England-Sweden and Germany- Poland not the best technical football by a long way but fun emotional roller coasts of games that were exciting to watch. Never got remotley excited watching Spain for all their obvoius technical ability. I don't disagree. Last night's game was the only one featuring Spain in the whole tournament that I actually enjoyed watching. Aside from that I've found watching them to be stultifyingly boring. Up until they lost to Italy I'd found Germany to be brilliant to watch. Very attacking, had a go, kept posession well, I thought they were going to walk it even against Spain. But they had a mare against Italy and that was that. The way England play, and what our fans want from watching, is for us to be fast paced, get it forward quickly, take chances. But that approach on its own isn't conduicive to winning games against top level opposition (36% of posession against Italy is a shameful statistic). We won't get any success on the international stage until there is a change both in the mindset of players in how they play, and in supporters too. I don't see that happening any time soon, as the criticism of Spain shows, our fans simply don't want to watch football like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Spain were boring for a lot of the tournament, but last night they were excellent. I can't abide the 4-6-0 formation but last night it worked to complete effect and they were a joy to watch. How strange that what they criticised for most often, tippy tappy football and keeping the ball, are the exact same skills that English footballers seem incapable of. Our "lump it up to the big man" approach is so outdated, yet it seems to be what a lot of the public want. That and "English passion", whatever the hell that is. It seems to me that Spain's style is built around some particular players, and if they play something more akin to 4-6-0 right now it's largely because they lost David Villa to long term injury. I'd suggest that the Italians would have been buried much earlier had he been playing. When they brought Torres on, who hasn't been really effective for some time, they looked lethal against a fast-tiring team. I completely agree with your comment about English football. When it comes to the comparison the OP was raising, I'd suggest that our triangles are about 15-20 yards longer than Spain's and that our main playmaker - Morgan - starts off about 20 yards farther back from where Xavi and Iniesta start to initiate attacks. I'm hoping that one of our goals this year is to enable Morgan to play a bit farther forward or to sign someone to fill that role. We've signed some very pacey strikers (Rodriguez, Lee) and we need someone capable of feeding them an early ball as one of our attack options - or else there wasn't much point in buying them. That would give us a lot of options when it comes to attack but we'd be very different to Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 How the hell an any true football fan find Spain boring to watch ? They are magnificent to watch, the ball control, the team ethics, the pinpoint passing it's brilliant. England will never be as exciting as them to watch as we cant keep the ball for longer thatn 1 minute. Well, whether you understand and/or agree or not, there is a body of opinion that considers Spain to be f**king boring, and seeing as it was a topic of discussion during the pre-match press conferences of both Del Bosque and Prandelli, it seems unlikely that this can be conveniently labellled as an "English thing" As someone else has said, the Germans were entertaining - powerful, skillful, fast and a wee bit dirty when needed. They were my team of the tournament until they suffered some sort of brain fart against the Italians. Maybe they have some sort of Henman/Murray-esque glass jaw mentality going on; hopefully they will grow out of it. And Spain played a team of injured and completely f**ked Italians last night, so I for one am not going to w*nk myself senseless over them like some media commentators have been doing. Imo they stand NO chance in Brazil in 2 years time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ron fan Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 first half of the season maybe, but certainly not the second half. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 yes Spanish football is the new black.... we can all look forward to ball achingly boring games of tip tappy ball possessoin playing 4-6-0 can't wait.... As others have said - no way was that boring! Four sublime goals and some excellent ball skill without fancy step-overs. Of course, lumping it up-field for a targetman to knock down to nobody is far more entertaining - NOT! Oh dear, this forum is going to be a nightmare place to be when we start winning games because we "play like Spain"! And what the hell is a 4-6-0 formation - I just saw an excellently crafted team with lots of off the ball movement who attacked as a unit. Even the pro-commentators were saying that it seemed like there were more Spaniards on the field than Italians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 As others have said - no way was that boring! Four sublime goals and some excellent ball skill without fancy step-overs. Of course, lumping it up-field for a targetman to knock down to nobody is far more entertaining - NOT! Oh dear, this forum is going to be a nightmare place to be when we start winning games because we "play like Spain"! And what the hell is a 4-6-0 formation - I just saw an excellently crafted team with lots of off the ball movement who attacked as a unit. Even the pro-commentators were saying that it seemed like there were more Spaniards on the field than Italians. There were when one of the italians got injured and had no subs left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 As others have said - no way was that boring! Four sublime goals and some excellent ball skill without fancy step-overs. Of course, lumping it up-field for a targetman to knock down to nobody is far more entertaining - NOT! Oh dear, this forum is going to be a nightmare place to be when we start winning games because we "play like Spain"! And what the hell is a 4-6-0 formation - I just saw an excellently crafted team with lots of off the ball movement who attacked as a unit. Even the pro-commentators were saying that it seemed like there were more Spaniards on the field than Italians. Each to their own you find spain exciting I don't..... rather we played like Germany myself.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Boring? Maybe, it was hardly end-to-end stuff was it? It was played at too slow a pace for my liking. Perhaps I should have recorded it and watched it at time and a half. Apart from the goals (which were things of beauty) they were hardly hammering the Italian goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Anybody would think that this passing possession football was something new and revolutionary, but the all conquering Liverpool used to play like that once...... Liverpool indeed did, but with more drama, muscle, swagger, pace and yet tinged with frailty and inconsistency; and roared on by the hordes from Kop. Combined, these attributes made them very exciting to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 England's problem isn't hoofing it to a big lump up front (that's so 1980's). England's problem is passing to a man close to one or more from the other team, and then have the rest of the team stand around like statues waiting for the poor sod with the ball to extricate the ball, himself, or both, from a circle of opponents who have quickly surrounded him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 We do play alot of long ball, and who wouldn't when you have someone as effective as Lambert up front, and you'd have to say we were more effective in the 2nd half of the season playing the long ball game, rather than building it up by playing football. Mainly due to teams developing ways to stop us. What made us stand out at the start of the season was our movement off the ball, so a player would pass the ball and then make a move forward, everyone was always moving and we were incredibly fluid in our play. Once teams sussed that and stuck men on players like Lallana and marked us a bit tighter, we couldn't play that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 England's problem isn't hoofing it to a big lump up front (that's so 1980's). England's problem is passing to a man close to one or more from the other team, and then have the rest of the team stand around like statues waiting for the poor sod with the ball to extricate the ball, himself, or both, from a circle of opponents who have quickly surrounded him. But equally, our players seem to lack the composure and technical ability to get themselves out of tight situations. Just watch Iniesta when he receives the ball surrounded by opposition players, we have nobody anywhere near that capable under pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itchen_block4 Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Agree with the comments about Germany. They had the quality to beat Italy, but clearly suffered from a tactical gaffe in the semi final. They showed the fluidity, the movement, the energy and the potency to really be a force. I think it's a more realistic and more effective model to aspire towards. PL teams are very tough to break down and it's very hard with overly patient football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Agree with the comments about Germany. They had the quality to beat Italy, but clearly suffered from a tactical gaffe in the semi final. They showed the fluidity, the movement, the energy and the potency to really be a force. I think it's a more realistic and more effective model to aspire towards. PL teams are very tough to break down and it's very hard with overly patient football. This, good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Before anyone gets to excited, I'm not suggesting that we are anywhere near as good as Spain, but the way they keep possession, keep recycling the ball, probing and prodding, passing the opposition into submission, is very similar to our own style. (Italy were the only other team to come close to it - no coincidence they both made the final.) It is about confidence and ability on the ball, not pace or aggression, and teams like huff-and-puff England looked to be playing a different sport. I am intrigued to see if we have the courage to play like it in the Prem, because if we do, we will do well against the old-fashioned style of play. Both teams try to pass it, but that's where the similarities end. Also, the only time last season we tried to play without a striker on the pitch was when Lambert got sent off at Brighton. Yes, I know Forte was on there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brussels Saint Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Have to admit, I'm in the Spain camp on this one and love the tippy tappy pretty pattern stuff. I don't find it boring, but can understand why some do. The Germans unfortunately seem to have caught the English disease and weight of expectation is making them freeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 We both play in red Come on now, our kits are nothing like alike - Spain have played in red and yellow stripes pretty recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 There's a lot of truth in the OP - we are attempting to move towards that style of play. But then so are many other teams to be fair. There are two key attributes to enable success in this style of play - (a) fitness/stamina, to enable movement off the ball to be realised throughout 90 minutes and (b) pass accuracy, for hopefully obvious reasons! We have improved both of these elements of our play since Adkins and Co have been managing the team and seen the results in two promotions. Now, the real question is - are there teams in the Prem who have players that can do these things better than our players? Clearly, yes. To my mind this will be one of the most exciting aspects of the coming season - seeing how we compare to Prem teams. Agree with a lot of this. The OP would have been more valid if it had said "Why don't England play the Saints way?" Watch the Italy game again and EVERY time Hart received the ball he hoofed it. Yet very few PL teams (or us) actually play that way these days. The first time I really noticed the difference was in SA 2010, and could see that much of what NA was building style wise was similar to the basics of keep the ball. We can only hope that as we bring in better players we are able to become more Spanish and less prone to hoofball when under real pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 But equally, our players seem to lack the composure and technical ability to get themselves out of tight situations. Just watch Iniesta when he receives the ball surrounded by opposition players, we have nobody anywhere near that capable under pressure. Iniesta? Hammond? No contest. Ottery has told us Hammo wins hands down. In fact Hammo's been lined up as a replacement for Iniesta when NC buys him to spearhead our CL challenge in 2013 after we qualify this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Iniesta has to be the most over-rated player on the planet at the moment. He falls over like a toddler everytime he is challenged. F**king weird looking gimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 2 July, 2012 Share Posted 2 July, 2012 Agree with a lot of this. The OP would have been more valid if it had said "Why don't England play the Saints way?" Watch the Italy game again and EVERY time Hart received the ball he hoofed it. Yet very few PL teams (or us) actually play that way these days. The first time I really noticed the difference was in SA 2010, and could see that much of what NA was building style wise was similar to the basics of keep the ball. We can only hope that as we bring in better players we are able to become more Spanish and less prone to hoofball when under real pressure Actually I thought England played very much like the saints I watched last season IE play it out to a defender pass it around among the defence then get a defender to hoof it ...if the defender is unable to hoof it play it back to the keeper to hoof it. Despite finding Spain rather boring to watch they did play it out from the back the other night with some balls being quite happy to pass it in triangles around their own penalty box even under pressure before passing it into midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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