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Phillip Hammond - Bigger pr*ck than Liam Fox


alpine_saint
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Not only did he help himself to a seat at the Bomber Command Memorial unveiling, despite all party leaders graciously giving it a miss so that veterans got as many seats as possible; then refusing to help out with the costs of the service from MoD funds (700grand, 5minutes less p*ssing around on the aircraft carrier project...).

 

No, not only that. Then comes this, right before Armed Forces Day :

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9366306/Battalions-with-foreign-bias-face-axe-in-Army-cuts.html

 

 

No Argyl and Sutherland Highlanders or PWRR ? Might as well disband the Army now while half of it is still stuck in Afghanistan, you c**t.

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The PWRR is THE SENIOR line regiment in the Army, being one of the 'super regiments' created a few years back that swallowed the Hampshires and Queen's. It has more VCs to its credit than any other British regiment and the 1st battalion of armoured infantry is the backbone of the Regiment. recruits mainly from the south-east of England, including Hampshire.

 

Utterly crazy.

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Talking as a non military man, why does it matter if some historic regiments are disbanded and other kept. Surely we are more worried about their capabilities today not what they did in the past.

This a genuine question btw.

 

If the mod want to save some money, how about disbanding the household cavalry and blues and royals, not much call for horses on the battlefield these days (btw I know that they use armoured vehicles on ops, I am referring to when they ate back home)

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Because the British Army is built around the Regimental system, around which is centred a unit's esprit de corps, morale - call it what you will. It's the soldiers' family and support, a sense of belonging if you like, a source of pride.

 

As for capabilities, the 1st battalion of the PWRR is the main fighting battalion. Take it away and you're left with a rump of a light infantry battalion (probably understrength) and a TA battalion.

 

The MoD need to look at cutting their own bloated organisation before cutting the muscle of the armed forces yet again.

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Because the British Army is built around the Regimental system, around which is centred a unit's esprit de corps, morale - call it what you will. It's the soldiers' family and support, a sense of belonging if you like, a source of pride.

 

As for capabilities, the 1st battalion of the PWRR is the main fighting battalion. Take it away and you're left with a rump of a light infantry battalion (probably understrength) and a TA battalion.

 

The MoD need to look at cutting their own bloated organisation before cutting the muscle of the armed forces yet again.

this can't be a surprise, the RN has been decimated over the last few years while the army has largely gotten away with it.

its all a sad state of affairs

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Talking as a non military man, why does it matter if some historic regiments are disbanded and other kept. Surely we are more worried about their capabilities today not what they did in the past.

This a genuine question btw.

 

If the mod want to save some money, how about disbanding the household cavalry and blues and royals, not much call for horses on the battlefield these days (btw I know that they use armoured vehicles on ops, I am referring to when they ate back home)

 

Agree but you know we love traditions and our past even if they are outdated.

 

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2

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Yes but is he a bigger pr*ck than Michael Gove? That should be the benchmark for all aspiring pr*cks.

 

I support everything Gove is trying to do. I can see past the fact he is an irritating Sweatie.

 

Hammond is on record that he views his job purely as managing his department and balancing the books, and that he does not identify with or have any sentimentality about the armed forces. He has made it clear that he couldnt care less about the regimental system.

 

Pugwash's comments are spot on about the senority of PWRR, but the problem is they recruit quite a high proportion of their strength from the Commonwealth, and less from the UK itself. Hammond must be thinking the "wogs" can be sent back to where they came from....

Edited by alpine_saint
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The telegraph has chosen to run the article on armed forces day for added sensationalism. The report is due for publication next Thursday and uses the recommendations of a lt col.

 

Hardly any reason for Hammond to face any ire.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

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I support everything Gove is trying to do. I can see past the fact he is an irritating Sweatie.

 

Hammond is on record that he views his job purely as managing his department and balancing the books, and that he does not identify with or have any sentimentality about the armed forces. He has made it clear that he couldnt care less about the regimental system.

 

Pugwash's comments are spot on about the senority of PWRR, but the problem is they recruit quite a high proportion of their strength from the Commonwealth, and less from the UK itself. Hammond must be thinking the "wogs" can be sent back to where they came from....

 

Oh dear I have not heard that offensive word for years you have got to be in your 80s I suppose:)

 

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2

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Yep, sod educating our kids properly, lets make sure they all leave school terminally stupid.

 

Except that isn't what happens. You don't even live in this country and haven't experienced the education system this century. It got me and my friends through just fine and certainly didn't leave everyone 'terminally stupid'.

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Hammond is a pr*ck, but Michael 'The Fish Course' Gove is an utter c*nt.

 

The man has absolutely no idea what he's doing. He goes against all logic, disregards all sensible and researched advice and has complete contempt for the workforce. Driven by pure political dogma. The problem is that most kids are in the education system for at least 14 years. It can be up to 20 years before the effects of change are seen. How many wild changes in policy have taken place over the last 20 years?

 

Anyway, back to the thread - not sure if PWRR do recruit a lot from the Commonwealth, though?

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Hammond is a pr*ck, but Michael 'The Fish Course' Gove is an utter c*nt.

 

The man has absolutely no idea what he's doing. He goes against all logic, disregards all sensible and researched advice and has complete contempt for the workforce. Driven by pure political dogma. The problem is that most kids are in the education system for at least 14 years. It can be up to 20 years before the effects of change are seen. How many wild changes in policy have taken place over the last 20 years?

 

Anyway, back to the thread - not sure if PWRR do recruit a lot from the Commonwealth, though?

 

I was suprised by this, but apparently its true. Those regiments expected to disappear completely are those with a high intake from the Commonwealth.

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Except that isn't what happens. You don't even live in this country and haven't experienced the education system this century. It got me and my friends through just fine and certainly didn't leave everyone 'terminally stupid'.

Well, thats a bunch of crap. My kids went to English schools from 2004 and 2008. I knew it was going wrong when my eldest told me he spent the afternoons watching Disney DVDs so the teacher could mark homework and the mornings classwork...

 

Also not sure your example of the "success" of the modern system is a good one. One thing came through though, the modern system is very good at brainwashng kids with left-wing dogma...

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Can we change Alpine's name to moral panic? I love how he uses one example and extrapolates that to every experience in Britain. I'm not so enamored when he posts links to the Daily Mail to tell me how disgusting something is (granted it is the telegraph this time...)

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Well, thats a bunch of crap. My kids went to English schools from 2004 and 2008. I knew it was going wrong when my eldest told me he spent the afternoons watching Disney DVDs so the teacher could mark homework and the mornings classwork...

 

Also not sure your example of the "success" of the modern system is a good one. One thing came through though, the modern system is very good at brainwashng kids with left-wing dogma...

 

What absolute rubbish. Since when had ideology been consistent with intelligence?

 

And yes, I have done very well so far even if I do say that myself and so have many of my friends. You have no idea what you are talking about. My mum is a teacher and she is against these reforms and so are most teachers.

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What absolute rubbish. Since when had ideology been consistent with intelligence?

 

And yes, I have done very well so far even if I do say that myself and so have many of my friends. You have no idea what you are talking about. My mum is a teacher and she is against these reforms and so are most teachers.

 

:lol: More explanation. You got the dogma brainwashing at home too....

 

I know the teachers are against it. It means they have to do some real work like, erm, teach, and just how great a job they've been doing at turning several generations of English kids into illiterate morons will be exposed....

 

Dont believe me if your conditioning really wont allow it. Just go and have a look at how Britain has PLUMMETED down the international tables for academice achievement in recent years..

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Well, thats a bunch of crap. My kids went to English schools from 2004 and 2008. I knew it was going wrong when my eldest told me he spent the afternoons watching Disney DVDs so the teacher could mark homework and the mornings classwork...

 

Also not sure your example of the "success" of the modern system is a good one. One thing came through though, the modern system is very good at brainwashng kids with left-wing dogma...

 

So what you're saying is, that your kids left school terminally stupid then.

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:lol: More explanation. You got the dogma brainwashing at home too....

 

I know the teachers are against it. It means they have to do some real work like, erm, teach, and just how great a job they've been doing at turning several generations of English kids into illiterate morons will be exposed....

 

Dont believe me if your conditioning really wont allow it. Just go and have a look at how Britain has PLUMMETED down the international tables for academice achievement in recent years..

 

 

At the end of your sentences, I notice, you alternate between one dot, four dots, and two dots. You don't know the difference between a full-stop and an ellipsis, and how to show them properly? Is that your fault, or the fault of your teachers? Or the entire, left-leaning educational establishment?

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Well, thats a bunch of crap. My kids went to English schools from 2004 and 2008. I knew it was going wrong when my eldest told me he spent the afternoons watching Disney DVDs so the teacher could mark homework and the mornings classwork...

 

Also not sure your example of the "success" of the modern system is a good one. One thing came through though, the modern system is very good at brainwashng kids with left-wing dogma...

 

Perhaps it's your kids that are 'terminally stupid'.

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:lol: More explanation. You got the dogma brainwashing at home too....

 

I know the teachers are against it. It means they have to do some real work like, erm, teach, and just how great a job they've been doing at turning several generations of English kids into illiterate morons will be exposed....

 

Dont believe me if your conditioning really wont allow it. Just go and have a look at how Britain has PLUMMETED down the international tables for academice achievement in recent years..

 

Source?

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That's uncalled for and unacceptable. I suggest you apologise.

 

Thanks dune, but not necessary; I am perfectly comfortable with my children's academic achievements. My two eldest that have reached school age are straight A pupils (in the Austrian system - probably means A********** in England) because, thank god, my wife as a qualified teacher and myself as a qualified engineer managed to compensate and undo all the damage that the modern English school system wreaked at that time, but it was finally a major factor for returning here.

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Thanks dune, but not necessary; I am perfectly comfortable with my children's academic achievements. My two eldest that have reached school age are straight A pupils (in the Austrian system - probably means A********** in England) because, thank god, my wife as a qualified teacher and myself as a qualified engineer managed to compensate and undo all the damage that the modern English school system wreaked at that time, but it was finally a major factor for returning here.

 

That could only happen to your children of course, due to your brilliant parenting. All other children in the UK education system stand no chance.

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who should go then..?

 

Why did the Army decline the MoD proposal to reduce standard batallion strength from 600 to 400 men in order to save cap badges ?

 

Seems to me the Army top brass had their bluff called.

 

Difficult to say which should go instead, because the full details are not yet known. The Govt. are clearly still crapping the official announcement. But appears 1 batallion of the Yorkshires, Mercians and RRF are also going, so I would have reduced The Rifles by one batallion to save the Argyls. But then of course Light Infantry are cheap. The Argyls are for me the biggest casualty of this downsizing.

 

But we have too many Guards/Cavalry regiments in an Army of this size, Royal Dragoons, Queens Dragoons, Royal Scots Dragoons, let alone all the Household Guards/Cavalry regiments which are apparently untouchable. FFS whats that all about ? Everything with "Queen" or "Royal" has been left completely alone, it seems.

 

At least no pen-pushing mong suggested touching the Paras, despite their higher expense.

Edited by alpine_saint
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At least no pen-pushing mong suggested touching the Paras, despite their higher expense.

 

Surely though the Paras with there silly extra payment for being jump trained should go afterall they have not made a significant jump on active service since the second world war, unless yo count the Suez fiasco or special forces ops in Afghan.

 

What our military really needs is total transformation into a modern fighting force.

1. Ditch the airforce it's another pointless expensive set of top brass and the army and navy already have air corps that could take the personel and equipment. This would also remove the endless squables over who gets the new toys and the crazy situation of different section using different aircraft for the same thing

2. Ditch all the regiments and start again from the ground up with a system that reflects the need of a modern combat force not 1000 years of tradition

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Surely though the Paras with there silly extra payment for being jump trained should go afterall they have not made a significant jump on active service since the second world war, unless yo count the Suez fiasco or special forces ops in Afghan.

 

What our military really needs is total transformation into a modern fighting force.

1. Ditch the airforce it's another pointless expensive set of top brass and the army and navy already have air corps that could take the personel and equipment. This would also remove the endless squables over who gets the new toys and the crazy situation of different section using different aircraft for the same thing

2. Ditch all the regiments and start again from the ground up with a system that reflects the need of a modern combat force not 1000 years of tradition

I take it your military expertise is limited to the cadets..

 

christ

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Surely though the Paras with there silly extra payment for being jump trained should go afterall they have not made a significant jump on active service since the second world war, unless yo count the Suez fiasco or special forces ops in Afghan.

 

What our military really needs is total transformation into a modern fighting force.

1. Ditch the airforce it's another pointless expensive set of top brass and the army and navy already have air corps that could take the personel and equipment. This would also remove the endless squables over who gets the new toys and the crazy situation of different section using different aircraft for the same thing

2. Ditch all the regiments and start again from the ground up with a system that reflects the need of a modern combat force not 1000 years of tradition

 

The Paras still do their jumpt training in order to retain a certain capability. I think it is really short-sighted to suggest doing away with yet another capability (but I am sure this doesnt bother the MoD, they arent considering it simply due to the sheer bad publicity it would generate)

 

Your comment about the airforce is interesting; I have myself thought that "overlap" needs to be removed. We dont need a Fleet Air Arm, Army Air Corps and RAF. We also dont need an Army and separate Royal Marines.

 

I would reduce the RN to sailors and ships-only, the Army to soldiers and support equipment only and the RAF control ALL aircraft.

 

You opinion about ditching the regiment system however demonstrates a complete lack of understanding about what made the British Army such a significant force over the last 2 centuries; the regimental system is envied and respected throughout the world (except in Whitehall and Downing Street)

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The Paras still do their jumpt training in order to retain a certain capability. I think it is really short-sighted to suggest doing away with yet another capability (but I am sure this doesnt bother the MoD, they arent considering it simply due to the sheer bad publicity it would generate)

 

Your comment about the airforce is interesting; I have myself thought that "overlap" needs to be removed. We dont need a Fleet Air Arm, Army Air Corps and RAF. We also dont need an Army and separate Royal Marines.

 

I would reduce the RN to sailors and ships-only, the Army to soldiers and support equipment only and the RAF control ALL aircraft.

 

You opinion about ditching the regiment system however demonstrates a complete lack of understanding about what made the British Army such a significant force over the last 2 centuries; the regimental system is envied and respected throughout the world (except in Whitehall and Downing Street)

also proves you have no idea either.

 

what you are suggesting is basically disbanding the RN, RAF and Army and having a UK Defence force.

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Lots has been said so far about how this could damage morale or how this is a symbol of some decline. But we only have a certain pot of money and something has to go unfortunately.

 

So why is it so strategically bad to get rid of these particular bits of the army as opposed to another part? Honest question there, as I am generally uneducated in the army.

 

Surely it's best to keep as strong overall as possible rather than keeping things because they symbolise the might of a past era. Modernisation is the way.

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would reduce the RN to sailors and ships-only, the Army to soldiers

 

ahh so no officers generals, admirals ore air marshalls.

 

And if Sir Alex of Salmond gets his way

Scots back independence, the First Minister said the coalition government’s defence review plan of one naval base, one air base and one mobile armed brigade was “exactly the configuration” required for Scotland.

 

Such a set-up would total about 15,400 troops, an armed force of an equivalent size to that of Kuwait.

and no nucleur submarines

 

So there will not be many scottish regiments left.

 

For the History Buffs. 1A&SH did well in Aden as well under mad mitch.

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Oh I have experineced two major military reductions in my service career.

 

During my service career I have seen the reduction of at least 15 Army Hospital closed and not including the RAF or Navy ones

 

Now we have none apart from Selly Oak and that is not really a military hospital just a military wing to selly oak

Our military assets are next to nothing these days

Its not only the regiments that get hammered in these situations.

 

Glad to see my friend Capt Mannering has not done hs homework again.

 

PS My dad served with the Argylls in Malaya

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would reduce the RN to sailors and ships-only, the Army to soldiers

 

ahh so no officers generals, admirals ore air marshalls.

 

And if Sir Alex of Salmond gets his way

Scots back independence, the First Minister said the coalition government’s defence review plan of one naval base, one air base and one mobile armed brigade was “exactly the configuration” required for Scotland.

 

Such a set-up would total about 15,400 troops, an armed force of an equivalent size to that of Kuwait.

and no nucleur submarines

 

So there will not be many scottish regiments left.

 

For the History Buffs. 1A&SH did well in Aden as well under mad mitch.

I know many people that hope King Alec wins for that very reason

 

:D

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also proves you have no idea either.

 

what you are suggesting is basically disbanding the RN, RAF and Army and having a UK Defence force.

 

Here he goes again...the Pillsbury Doughboy who thinks he's Chief of Naval Operations.......

 

I never said that at all. I am saying we should have the three Armed services with no overlap and therefore no political in-fighting and treading-on-toes. Twice in the last half century the RAF and RN have had an almighty scrap over fixed wing capability (TSR2 vs. F111 vs. Buccanneer and Tornado vs. Harrier) and on both occasions the capability of BOTH was severely depleted.

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would reduce the RN to sailors and ships-only, the Army to soldiers

 

ahh so no officers generals, admirals ore air marshalls.

 

And if Sir Alex of Salmond gets his way

Scots back independence, the First Minister said the coalition government’s defence review plan of one naval base, one air base and one mobile armed brigade was “exactly the configuration” required for Scotland.

 

Such a set-up would total about 15,400 troops, an armed force of an equivalent size to that of Kuwait.

and no nucleur submarines

 

So there will not be many scottish regiments left.

 

For the History Buffs. 1A&SH did well in Aden as well under mad mitch.

 

Yep, Mad Mitch will be spinning in his grave...

 

WTF are you going on about no officers ? Of course the three Armed Services need a command structure, but it should be the minimal required and they should communicate with each other properly rather than looking to stab each other in the back.

 

Really, some of you ex-service types are really superior nit-picking idiots when discussing this stuff.

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Lots has been said so far about how this could damage morale or how this is a symbol of some decline. But we only have a certain pot of money and something has to go unfortunately.

 

Works for me.

 

Bye-bye Overseas Aid

 

Bye-bye Invalidity Allowance

 

Bye-bye unlimited immigration

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Alps dear boy . Only mocking your statement as the way it's written it's easy to see that it could be no command structure . For someone with no military experience you seem to know an awful lot . You didn't mention anything about military hospitals . Also which corp or regiment has most VC's and double vc's

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Well, this is a mess :

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9376906/Scottish-infantry-spared-as-English-regiments-axed.html

 

So the Argyls survive as a small ceremonial unit and not a fighting force. Suppose I'd rather they went out in a blaze of glory, tbh. This is not the regiment of Mad Mitch and Aden.

 

Yet again preferential treatment of Scotland has raised its ugly head. Has Pie-Face opened his mouth again ? Thinking about it, maybe it made more sense to ditch Sweatie regiments in preparation for British independence from Scotland.

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20k from the army.....huge numbers

 

easy to cut...very hard to grow back if/when required

 

 

one thing is for sure. it surely is about time, the powers at be at the MoD started being realistic with the extent it deploys it units.

still trying to cover as many commitments as possible, which it no doubt signed up to when we have loads more unit/personnel.

 

 

defies belief sometimes

Edited by Thedelldays
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