Saint Charlie Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 As I said a few days back, this started to scream of amar jemal Maybe his agent wants a cut, or Buttner, of the fee or perhaps the translation is dodgy and another team now wants him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulletsaint Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Maybe his agent wants a cut, or Buttner, of the fee or perhaps the translation is dodgy and another team now wants him. Just logged on to say something similar. Could be the agent want's a bigger cut than we're willing to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleysfc Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 A strange one. Vittesse say it's not our fault or theirs. I can only assume it's something to do with an agent or some bizzare Tevez-esque 3rd party ownership! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Just logged on to say something similar. Could be the agent want's a bigger cut than we're willing to pay. Sounds like Vitesse are pretty annoyed by it all. Think the statement on their site is a way of saying "Make a decision either way, but don't mug us off". Should be a quick resolution now, can't imagine we are going to stay keen on a Player if they are making it this hard, should have been a simple deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Just logged on to say something similar. Could be the agent want's a bigger cut than we're willing to pay. Blame football manager, they always do it on there!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 To me, it reads like its something Buttner has signed up to since joining Vitesse, which entitles a 3rd party (probably his agent) to a fee, which Vitesse are not willing to pay as it didn't form part of their original arrangement. Saints are just caught in the middle, trying to sign the player. Unless this lad is particularly special, I say go elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 The statement from Vitesse could also be an attempt to publicise the 3rd party's interest to get them to back down & let the deal proceed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Just logged on to say something similar. Could be the agent want's a bigger cut than we're willing to pay. my thoughts , too Mullet. typical of greedy agents -isn't it ? Let's not pretend that they do everything for the player's best interests. I recall the sad case of Hassan Katchloul's departure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 What 'third party' - very unclear at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
There when Franny scored Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 A better translation: http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/article/165/7886263/buttner-saints-deal-in-doubt Sounds like the player may have to sort this one out himself if he wants the deal to go through as I imagine Cortese would take the same line as Vitesse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 my thoughts , too Mullet. typical of greedy agents -isn't it ? Let's not pretend that they do everything for the player's best interests. I recall the sad case of Hassan Katchloul's departure. It clearly says in the article the player let Vitesse know through his agent that there as a thirs party involved, so it's come from the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pahars_Legend Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 " Southampton's proposed move for Vitesse Arnhem defender Alexander Buttner is in doubt after a third party claimed he is owed a percentage of the transfer fee. " http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18738816 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 He was quoted as saying he would be really upset if the deal didn't go through. Seems strange it's only now he's mentioned this 3rd party that's owed money as well. If he's involved with them, surely he'd be willing to forgo that money if he's as bothered about the move as he claims to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 I wonder what this "third party" has done to feel an entitlement to a cut of the transfer fee ? I also wonder if NC will still want Büttner, not because of the money per se, but because it appears that the player revealed this at the 11th hour. The player must have known this might become an issue - why didnt he say something earlier ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_TOAST Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 I find strange, do the players not agree this sort of thing with a agent when they sign up with the agent in the first place ie what percentage / fee they will get with any transfers etc. Seems harsh the agent can hold the player to ransom if they want to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Yes, we dont have the full picture. Sounds very fishy. Wouldnt be surprised if NC drops the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Yes, we dont have the full picture. Sounds very fishy. Wouldnt be surprised if NC drops the whole thing. That would seem to be the course of things now. In one respect it might be a shame if we miss out on decent players, but so much is rotten in this area of football that it's heartening to see the club taking a stand. It will all come out in the wash... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 I would expect a deal where the fee has been agreed between the clubs, the player is practically begging to join and all that remains is a last minute speed bump to overcome to not prove too challenging even for the most inexperienced of chairmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 I would expect a deal where the fee has been agreed between the clubs, the player is practically begging to join and all that remains is a last minute speed bump to overcome to not prove too challenging even for the most inexperienced of chairmen. It has nothing to do with experience, Turkish. Its all to do with whether NC wants to submerge himself in the cess-pit/underworld of agent-involved transfer activity, and so far he has given impression that he'd rather crawl across broken glass with his flies open. We dont know the full story, but if player or agent have stuck their hand up and said "but" at the last second, I suspect NC wont play ball and will sh*t-can the whole transfer, as Vitesse seem to be inclined to do, rather than set a precidence of being bullyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 It has nothing to do with experience, Turkish. Its all to do with whether NC wants to submerge himself in the cess-pit/underworld of agent-involved transfer activity, and so far he has given impression that he'd rather crawl across broken glass with his flies open. We dont know the full story, but if player or agent have stuck their hand up and said "but" at the last second, I suspect NC wont play ball and will sh*t-can the whole transfer, as Vitesse seem to be inclined to do, rather than set a precidence of being bullyable. *considers change of location* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 You can see why the club never announce transfers or transfer targets until everything is signed and sealed cant you ? All this excitement on here about a new signing and it may not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 It has nothing to do with experience, Turkish. Its all to do with whether NC wants to submerge himself in the cess-pit/underworld of agent-involved transfer activity, and so far he has given impression that he'd rather crawl across broken glass with his flies open. We dont know the full story, but if player or agent have stuck their hand up and said "but" at the last second, I suspect NC wont play ball and will sh*t-can the whole transfer, as Vitesse seem to be inclined to do, rather than set a precidence of being bullyable. Quite. This reads very much like the player was stupid enough to sign away some rights to an agent or similar, then was even more stupid and forgot this in the negotiations. Can't see how Cortese can be blamed ,even by Turkish's weird standards. Vitesse's statement makes it pretty clear they see Saints as blameless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Quite. This reads very much like the player was stupid enough to sign away some rights to an agent or similar, then was even more stupid and forgot this in the negotiations. Can't see how Cortese can be blamed ,even by Turkish's weird standards. Vitesse's statement makes it pretty clear they see Saints as blameless. I'm not blaming Cortese but if the player wants to join and the club want their man then i dont see why this difficulty cant be overcome between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 I'm not blaming Cortese but if the player wants to join and the club want their man then i dont see why this difficulty cant be overcome between them. Because it invites players to be "forgetful" during the negotiations for further transfers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 sounds like this summers Jemal!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Because it invites players to be "forgetful" during the negotiations for further transfers ? It's quite simple Alps. If they player really wants to join then if the problem is his end then he'll sort it, if the problem is something for SFC to sort, then we can sort it if we really want the player. No ones knows what it is, just speculation that the player has been "forgetful". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Just heard another bit of good news is on the way...! Care to enlighten us with it? Steven Davis? This third party wont know what's hit them when they meet NC. Pretty sure the deal will go through. Horses head and all that. My source that informed me of the Davis transfer ahead of time, has told me it is looking like a no-go. A significant sum is being demanded. And we all know how well that goes down around these here parts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelling Saint Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Third party could be Ajax, his former club, wanting a sell-on fee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Third party could be Ajax, his former club, wanting a sell-on fee? UNlikely i've have thought. Surely any sell on clause would have been negotiated during the transfer for Vitesse, so their problem to sort out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelling Saint Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 UNlikely i've have thought. Surely any sell on clause would have been negotiated during the transfer for Vitesse, so their problem to sort out. Indeed it would be Vitesse problem to sort out, and if it is Ajax you would have thought Vitesse would have known about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del boy Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Go on Mrs B - let him go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 What 'third party' - very unclear at the moment Someone with the moniker 'Rosie' perchance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Indeed it would be Vitesse problem to sort out, and if it is Ajax you would have thought Vitesse would have known about it? Vitesse's whole argument is that he has supposedly signed this away from the club-player contract. It is not listed in his Vitesse contract so they won't budge. For the same reason, neither will Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Anyway, what is it with left-sided wing-backs and protracted transfers? "Has he signed yet?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 My source that informed me of the Davis transfer ahead of time, has told me it is looking like a no-go. A significant sum is being demanded. And we all know how well that goes down around these here parts.... FIFA have already temporarily bypassed any obstacle to the Davis deal, to be formalised soon. The Davis deal is done, FIFA don't step out of their comfort zone unless nailed in a case like this. As for Buttner this 3rd party demand cannot be coming from another club or owner, illegal under FIFA unless monies owed from original transaction. Any monies owed would have been lodged with FIFA and open for all to see. I would imagine this can only come about with a change of agent who did the deal to take him to Vitesse. Where there is a clause on his sell on, solely between agent and player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Vitesse's whole argument is that he has supposedly signed this away from the club-player contract. It is not listed in his Vitesse contract so they won't budge. For the same reason, neither will Saints. Then it MUST be an agreement between player and agent that agent gets a cut of the transfer value. Since the terms of a sale arent known until it happens, maybe Büttner expected to get some sort of golden hello, (the deal between Saints and Vitesse doesnt have anything to do with that) and Saints arent willing to pay a golden hello, meaning player has to pay agents cut himself. If this is true, its Büttner who has screwed up - with agent for signing it and with clubs for not telling them early enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Vitesse's whole argument is that he has supposedly signed this away from the club-player contract. It is not listed in his Vitesse contract so they won't budge. For the same reason, neither will Saints. So they are saying that Buttner signed a contact entitling Ajax to a sell on fee without telling Vitesse and they knew nothing about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 So they are saying that Buttner signed a contact entitling Ajax to a sell on fee without telling Vitesse and they knew nothing about it? Do we know for sure it is Ajax? (last post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Do we know for sure it is Ajax? (last post) No, just speculation. My guess is it's his agent and Buttner will have to pay it himself or come to some sort of deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 So they are saying that Buttner signed a contact entitling Ajax to a sell on fee without telling Vitesse and they knew nothing about it? Sounds like b*ll*cks to me, and completely unenforceable. Would have to be in terms of sale between the clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 No, just speculation. My guess is it's his agent and Buttner will have to pay it himself or come to some sort of deal. Reckon you are right. Player's problem to solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Maybe his agent wants a cut, or Buttner, of the fee or perhaps the translation is dodgy and another team now wants him. Nah, seems to be identical to Jemal now the translations have become clearer. That fell through because there was some sort of odd third party payment that they wanted us to pay at the end of the deal. This seems completely identical to me. Will be interesting to see what exactly the third part is...... and I'll echo also what someone else said, this is exactly why we only annouce deals when it's done, dusted and signed! All the people wanting constant transfer updates are living in another planet, the club would look like fools if they had announced similar to what his parent club did over the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Nah, seems to be identical to Jemal now the translations have become clearer. That fell through because there was some sort of odd third party payment that they wanted us to pay at the end of the deal. This seems completely identical to me. Will be interesting to see what exactly the third part is...... and I'll echo also what someone else said, this is exactly why we only annouce deals when it's done, dusted and signed! All the people wanting constant transfer updates are living in another planet, the club would look like fools if they had announced similar to what his parent club did over the weekend. Steven Davis ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Steven Davis ? That is done and dusted, barring a little fuss over nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 The quote below suggest that the third party is not the agent. It suggests that the third party claim is being made against Vitesse not against Saints: "Last Friday Vitesse came to an agreement with Southampton about the transfer of Alexander Büttner to the Premier League club. "Because Büttner himself also agreed on his personal conditions with Southampton FC, Vitesse was in the supposition that the transfer was a fact, with the proviso that Büttner would pass a medical examination. "However, in the course this weekend the player informed Vitesse via his agent that a third party had a supplementary demand towards the club. "Vitesse gave to understand to the player that it would not comply with that demand, since it was applied in retrospect and Vitesse will not be pressurised. "Vitesse is disappointed about the course of things, all the more because Vitesse negotiated with Southampton FC on the player's request. "Southampton FC has taken up an absolute correct position and is not to blame for the possible fall through of the transfer. Vitesse have also tried all possible to keep the set deal going." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 The quote below suggest that the third party is not the agent. It suggests that the third party claim is being made against Vitesse not against Saints: "Last Friday Vitesse came to an agreement with Southampton about the transfer of Alexander Büttner to the Premier League club. "Because Büttner himself also agreed on his personal conditions with Southampton FC, Vitesse was in the supposition that the transfer was a fact, with the proviso that Büttner would pass a medical examination. "However, in the course this weekend the player informed Vitesse via his agent that a third party had a supplementary demand towards the club. "Vitesse gave to understand to the player that it would not comply with that demand, since it was applied in retrospect and Vitesse will not be pressurised. "Vitesse is disappointed about the course of things, all the more because Vitesse negotiated with Southampton FC on the player's request. "Southampton FC has taken up an absolute correct position and is not to blame for the possible fall through of the transfer. Vitesse have also tried all possible to keep the set deal going." Up to player then. When will players learn to keep their transfer affairs simple - Gary Neville did not have an agent throughout his career and if players must have someone taking a huge cut of their wages for doing next to nothing then keep it to one party. Rooney had his fingers burnt and also West Ham/Tevez/Mascerano. There must be good sports legal firms that could advise them on the technicalities and I'm sure they know what their peers earn roughly. The issue of player registrations clouds matters I guess as otherwise Saints could insert a clause in his contract stating that any third party payments are purely the liability and risk of the player? I guess it depends too whether the party claiming money are FIFA-registered or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWY Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 You can see why Saints keep all their transfer dealings quiet until they are complete. I bet Vitesse wish they had done the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 You can see why Saints keep all their transfer dealings quiet until they are complete. I bet Vitesse wish they had done the same. Do you really think either club gives a f*ck about fans speculating on a mong board as to what might have happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Well Vitesse have now signed patrick Van Aanholt, a left back on loan from Chelsea for the season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 10 July, 2012 Share Posted 10 July, 2012 Well Vitesse have now signed patrick Van Aanholt, a left back on loan from Chelsea for the season... That should make things interesting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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