trousers Posted 26 June, 2012 Share Posted 26 June, 2012 http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jun/25/how-natwest-it-meltdown?newsfeed=true If only they'd listened to me 10 years ago.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 26 June, 2012 Share Posted 26 June, 2012 The boss (Hester?) should go. That's what happens when there's a boo-boo lower down the food chain, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 26 June, 2012 Share Posted 26 June, 2012 Fairly desperately trying avoid any indication that it was due to the outsourcing of the support to India that it is currently rumoured to be at least partially responsible. When asked about this said something like "The jobs are run on the UK" and "The backbone of our IT department is in Edinburgh" but completely avoided the question of the outsourced support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 26 June, 2012 This is the industry I work in. Can't say much but this was a problem waiting to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 26 June, 2012 Share Posted 26 June, 2012 This is the industry I work in. Can't say much but this was a problem waiting to happen So how much do senior management take QMS seriously and how independent are the Quality Assurance people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 26 June, 2012 Share Posted 26 June, 2012 MI5 have been talking publicly for some time about the unprecedented amount of state sponsored cyber attacks and hacking against the British Government and British companies. China has been named on more than one occasion. I wonder if they are linked. http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/security/3366298/london-listed-firm-lost-800m-from-cyberattacks-mi5-boss-reveals/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenevaSaint Posted 26 June, 2012 Share Posted 26 June, 2012 They'll never pay proper attention to these implementations until something goes wrong, then the seniors involved. As with every institution...cost reduction, cost reduction, issue, spend some more. I must admit this does frustrate me though,a chap from Comp Weekly on radio this morning bemoaning the legacy systems, no mate it's poor change management and testing that's driven this issue. The same can be said of many organisations when it comes to data security, privacy and outsourced services such as payroll. No one is willing to spend the cash until there's a breach or a resiliency issue. Until then they pay lip service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 26 June, 2012 This is nothing to do with hacking (AFAIK) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 26 June, 2012 Share Posted 26 June, 2012 This is nothing to do with hacking (AFAIK) Well as far as any of us know.... tbf I'm not saying it is, but its little comfort to think that if these things can happen by accident how much worse they could be if people were doing it on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 26 June, 2012 So how much do senior management take QMS seriously and how independent are the Quality Assurance people? It's taken more seriously than it once was but it's still the part of a project that people begrudge spending money on. Re: independence...not sure in this case as the company concerned are not one of our accounts but it varies. This all comes down to the 'calibre' of employee working in testing and the front line support roles of IT depts these days. And, yes, the exec management are ultimately responsible for pursuing aggressive cost cutting models that don't actually end up saving any money. All IMHO of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenevaSaint Posted 26 June, 2012 Share Posted 26 June, 2012 trousers, having now read the guardian article. Which idiot thought it would be a good idea to update their batch scheduling software mid week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Windmill Posted 26 June, 2012 Share Posted 26 June, 2012 I work in IT (SAP if your interested!) and I am constantly having to move around companies because everywhere is outsourcing the work to India. It has already been proven that it isnt cheaper to outsource to India, and now this proves what I already knew - the quality of work delivered and support isnt as good. If you are a full time permie at a company it is in your interests to deliver a high quality, easily supportable system. If you are an outsourced contractor it is in your interests to do the exact opposite as it generates further revenue for your company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 26 June, 2012 Share Posted 26 June, 2012 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/26/rbs_natwest_ca_technologies_outsourcing/ We put our sources' revelations regarding poor levels of knowledge in the handling of CA-7 to RBS spokespersons - and reminded the company's representatives of the job ad showing that at least some of the firm's CA-7 handlers were recruited in India this year, as we reported yesterday. We offered the company an opportunity to confirm that the critical blunder was committed by a UK-based rather than an India-based operator. However the bank's spokesmen refused to offer any further comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 26 June, 2012 (edited) trousers, having now read the guardian article. Which idiot thought it would be a good idea to update their batch scheduling software mid week! See below..... Edited 26 June, 2012 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 26 June, 2012 From the comments sections of the Guardian article: The following is taken from a number of posts on the westhamonline dot net forum by a poster called CTM who is currently working on the Natwest/RBS fiasco and who was due to be made redundant 2 weeks ago. The most worrying comment is that 'The backout caused the "queue" of jobs for that batch to be unexpectedly deleted. ' "Ok, since I work on the mainframe at RBSG, I'll let you know some facts - I'm currently on my 5th 12 hour shift in 4 days (and am quite busy so won't be back here for a while) It is a mainframe problem and not a virus It was not deliberate by the bank (**** - they'll be lucky to keep their banking licence at the moment) It was a third party product that was upgrading that caused a big whole in the batch schedule RBS wasn't actually affected directly as the schedule is on a different LPAR - however focus was on NWB & UB and normal everyday errors on RBS side were not getting dealt with COBOL and Assembler on the Mainframe, like most big banks. But it's not the application code that is the problem as I stated below. CA7 was updated to a new level last weekend. It was causing problems with the schedules on Monday so was backed out on Tuesday. The backout caused the "queue" of jobs for that batch to be unexpectedly deleted. Not sure why DR wasn't invoked to be honest, but it wouldn't have made much difference as we'd still have been hours behind on our batches. All transactions made on Tuesday and since WILL be processed eventually. As for the account thats being sold to Santander - you can just phone the number on your letter and you won't be moved, so stop ****ing whining like you've been made to do it. We could have done without the work and expense that was foisted on us! Anyway, there's a pot of gold at the end of the RAINBOW. SWT Also, in my previous posts, the "not sure" was my own, not the banks - I'm sure that the discussions were had about DR and there must have been a good reason why it wasn't invoked. In truth DR is great in certain circumstances if it works, but in this one it wouldn't have. Obviously i can't go into too much detail here, but although the outsourcing to India did not cause the intial problem, the recovery has prompted questions to be asked as to who thought dumping over 50% of the UK support staff was a good idea - indeed people made redundant less tha a month ago have now been offered short term contracts to come back and help. Unfortunately, the balance sheet and pressure from the government to become independent again hasn't helped in the outsourcing/offshoring decision and I speak as a someone who was due to have been made redundant two weeks ago." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 26 June, 2012 Deja Vu Makes you wonder how many ex employees of other large companies are saying "that could be XXXX". I know I am. Skilled UK people bailing at the sight of a reasonable redundancy - check Skilled Indians leaving almost before they had finished company specific training - check Morale diving in the UK as what was once a relatively smooth efficient machine starts making grinding noises - check Management proclaiming how successful it all is while everyone else wonders what they are smoking - check Cultural differences causing problems as the two ways of working clash - check The cost savings justifications being eroded over time as the cost of the Indian work force rises - check The cost savings justifications being destroyed as one or more easily avoidable blunders eat up cash like crazy - check My own poison was Tesco and while I have many fond memories of the company I still shake my head at how gung-ho they were about the off-shoring process. After the accidental deletion of the entire UK user tree in AD followed by the not so accidental loss of the relevant log files and the discovery that the backup procedures hadn't been followed that THEN they might actually have learned something but no..... that was the signal for me that I'd be better off elsewhere. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 26 June, 2012 Share Posted 26 June, 2012 It's taken more seriously than it once was but it's still the part of a project that people begrudge spending money on. Re: independence...not sure in this case as the company concerned are not one of our accounts but it varies. This all comes down to the 'calibre' of employee working in testing and the front line support roles of IT depts these days. And, yes, the exec management are ultimately responsible for pursuing aggressive cost cutting models that don't actually end up saving any money. All IMHO of course... Part of a QMS covers the competency of the workforce. Surely there would have been some risk assessment made in pursuing a major change in workforce as well? I know a company who's IT quality report into the IT project managers!!! A QA function should report higher up the organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 26 June, 2012 Part of a QMS covers the competency of the workforce. Surely there would have been some risk assessment made in pursuing a major change in workforce as well? You'd like to think so.....I have my theories on that one but won't air them in public in case there are any company lawyers looking in.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draino76 Posted 26 June, 2012 Share Posted 26 June, 2012 When it all dies down, I shall be canceling my current account and will only reconsider staying with NatWest for £1000. The stress of my bank balance not matching what I thought it should theoretically be has made me suicidal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 26 June, 2012 Share Posted 26 June, 2012 When it all dies down, I shall be canceling my current account and will only reconsider staying with NatWest for £1000. The stress of my bank balance not matching what I thought it should theoretically be has made me suicidal. Thing is after this Nat West will probably be the best place to have your account because you can bet they will be trying very hard to make sure it does not happen again. Other banks are probably urgently reviewing their systems but will probably not put as much into avoiding it happening to them than RBS will in avoiding it happening to them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 26 June, 2012 Share Posted 26 June, 2012 I used to be a systems analyst - user requirement analysis really - and was glad to get out due to sheer boredom as all the interesting work had been outsourced. A lot poorer but a lot happier now. When I was there the core developments were outsourced but mainly done on-site and operations were all in-house. No idea if that's changed. Less critical systems were outsourced and even there you could see the inherent communications difficulties involved. Core and critical systems? Madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 26 June, 2012 Share Posted 26 June, 2012 ... Wow I could of written that....so close to home Quote Originally Posted by The Guardian Comments Section Deja Vu Makes you wonder how many ex employees of other large companies are saying "that could be XXXX". I know I am. Skilled UK people bailing at the sight of a reasonable redundancy - check Skilled Indians leaving almost before they had finished company specific training - check Morale diving in the UK as what was once a relatively smooth efficient machine starts making grinding noises - check Management proclaiming how successful it all is while everyone else wonders what they are smoking - check Cultural differences causing problems as the two ways of working clash - check The cost savings justifications being eroded over time as the cost of the Indian work force rises - check The cost savings justifications being destroyed as one or more easily avoidable blunders eat up cash like crazy - check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 27 June, 2012 http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/rbsulster-glitch-slog-survey-of-users-plus-analysis-of-the-numbers-raise-further-doubts/ Yay...conspiracy theory time... "A broad spectrum of NatWest/Ulster Bank customers and suppliers have raised new doubts about how and why last week’s RBS ‘glitch’ occurred. Also RBS’s current financial position doesn’t inspire confidence: and the ‘glitch’ gave the Group what might have been a vital windfall of £73bn in liquidity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/rbsulster-glitch-slog-survey-of-users-plus-analysis-of-the-numbers-raise-further-doubts/ Yay...conspiracy theory time... "A broad spectrum of NatWest/Ulster Bank customers and suppliers have raised new doubts about how and why last week’s RBS ‘glitch’ occurred. Also RBS’s current financial position doesn’t inspire confidence: and the ‘glitch’ gave the Group what might have been a vital windfall of £73bn in liquidity." Dearie me - what IS the world coming to? Broke RBS and bent Barclays. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18612279 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Dearie me - what IS the world coming to? Broke RBS and bent Barclays. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18612279 If only those Labour tykes had done something to reign in their greed all those years they were in power.... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 (edited) This is nothing to do with hacking (AFAIK) Edit: I definitely think the following statements are untrue and if I hear anyone making the following slanderous statements they can expect to hear from my legals: Word on the street is that it was a hacking thing and the "software update" is just a cover story cos the bank can't be admitting their systems got hacked. In other news, the branch managers have been given a free hand to dish out upto £(pm-me-to-find-out-what-you-might-win) compensation to any customer what gives them a sob story bout costs incurred. Try your luck! Edited 27 June, 2012 by Bearsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Word on the street is that it was a hacking thing and the "software update" is just a cover story cos the bank can't be admitting their systems got hacked. Which 'street' are you hearing that on Mr Bear sir? (not doubting you of course, just haven't heard that rumour on my 'street') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I'm a bit ITK on this one Trousers. I think I'd better edit dat post though cos I don't want to get no-one in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now