Cameron to slash welfare

[buctootim]

probably not....we can't strike..but we can moan..still don't hear MUCH from my lot...you get the odd gold brassed type banging the drum but not a great deal from the troops

 

just get on with it...I know I am lucky really, have a very well paid job and get looked after really. In an ideal whorl I would have left by now as I have done the magical 12 years but such is life, times are hard so just crack on

 

I dunno exactly what you do DD, some kind of electronic eavesdropping I guess. What can you do after, whats it relevant to outside, part from maybe some kind of private security work? Will you have to retrain?

[Thedelldays]

I dunno exactly what you do DD, some kind of electronic eavesdropping I guess. What can you do after, whats it relevant to outside, part from maybe some kind of private security work? Will you have to retrain?

of course I would have to retrain..but many of my skills are transferable...some of which I would never be able to talk about

Much of what I do uses many various IT systems...and have a great deal of expertise with that.

My Command and Leadership qualifications are worth £££££ on civvy street.

as well as other bits and bobs, like confined space fire fighter

Defence security officer

ships protection force team leader.

OPTAG trained

[buctootim]

of course I would have to retrain..but many of my skills are transferable...some of which I would never be able to talk about

Much of what I do uses many various IT systems...and have a great deal of expertise with that.

My Command and Leadership qualifications are worth £££££ on civvy street.

as well as other bits and bobs, like confined space fire fighter

Defence security officer

ships protection force team leader.

OPTAG trained

 

You should look into working in Singapore if you want to get out of the RN. Huge port and relatively easy for a Brit to get in to country and get a job apparently. .

[Thedelldays]

You should look into working in Singapore if you want to get out of the RN. Huge port and relatively easy for a Brit to get in to country and get a job apparently. .

I was asked to apply for a Job in Perth Australia a couple of months back...but it did not suit me.

my security clearance is definitely worth thousands on the outside and it stays with me for 5 years upon leaving...assuming the MoD are happy once i had all my de-briefings etc.....security cleared jobs are always sought after. definitely worth a thought at a certain place in cheltenham

[pap]

because they at least have a plan of action....I believe no matter who was in power this term...nothing would be much different.

 

the response from the other lot is to pretty much disagree with everything that is going on..and when asked what would they do the response is...

"wait till 2015 when you see our plans"......oh, thanks for that

 

reason wait till 2015 as nothing really would be much different and they have no real plans..so yeah, I trust him as much as they have a plan of action..no matter how much many people don't like it...which would have been the case anyway...

my area of public service has been decimated.......yet we just crack on. we too have had our pensions changed dramatically....money cut, charges gone up...yet we just crack on

 

I've watched political debates for years, TDD. The characteristics you're observing in the Labour Party are typical of an opposition party. Their default state is to oppose Government-sponsored legislation. There are exceptions, of course - matters of common consensus that a number of parties agree on, but disagreeing with the Government is what they are there to do.

 

That said, that doesn't let them off the hook for not having a coherent plan for the future. The public will judge them on that in 2015.

 

Current lot? Having a plan is only as good as the plan itself, and who it is geared to serve. Our current plan serves our creditors first, and the interests of the public second. Not saying we need to jip them all off, but we need a better balance between debt repayment and wealth creation.

[saintfully]

Theres some truth in that. Too much expansion too quickly mostly being consumed in increased salaries for doctors and dentists - who are now overpaid compared with European counterparts. The reason it mostly went in salaries for doctors? because of the populist clamour to give more power to doctors and get rid of the 'waste of space' (and cheap) managers... The money should have been fed in more slowly and linked directly to additional capacity. Another major change was the ending of the traditional culture of junior doctors working 100 hour weeks - requiring more bodies to do the same work.

 

Too high salaries is not really what I think of as waste though (uneccessary loops, people stood around or doing non jobs)

 

Sad to say, but a lot of the money went on the huge and rapid inflationary response in the private sector feeding into the NHS (the cost of products and services). 'Sad to say', because it was entirely predictable - dodgy NHS procurement?

[Whitey Grandad]

Theres some truth in that. Too much expansion too quickly mostly being consumed in increased salaries for doctors and dentists - who are now overpaid compared with European counterparts. The reason it mostly went in salaries for doctors? because of the populist clamour to give more power to doctors and get rid of the 'waste of space' (and cheap) managers... The money should have been fed in more slowly and linked directly to additional capacity. Another major change was the ending of the traditional culture of junior doctors working 100 hour weeks - requiring more bodies to do the same work.

 

Too high salaries is not really what I think of as waste though (uneccessary loops, people stood around or doing non jobs)

The money was put in without having the systems in place to control it.

[bridge too far]

Sad to say, but a lot of the money went on the huge and rapid inflationary response in the private sector feeding into the NHS (the cost of products and services). 'Sad to say', because it was entirely predictable - dodgy NHS procurement?

 

As a former NHS Procurement Manager I have to disagree

 

Once the internal market was introduced a situation arose whereby hospitals competed with each other for work. An example of this would be one hospital paying to have an outreach Radiography facility at a health centre at the edge of its catchment area in order to pull in patients from that area rather than them going to another hospital.

 

Another example (and if ever there was a reason for leaving procurement with the 'experts' rather than medics this is it) was me getting a great deal for hip and knee replacements only for the lead consultant to say 'Oh I was trained to use x implants, no way am I going to use the ones you're recommending - even though his colleagues were quite happy with my deal and it would have saved the Trust £thousand

 

Another example was when in-house services such as maintenance, catering, cleaning were outsourced and (non medical) consultants were hired to replace folk in areas such as procurement, audit etc. Far more expensive and often inferior levels of service.

 

However, the biggest cost was the huge hospital building programme. It was desperately needed because of decades of low levels of investment and I think we'd all agree that hospitals are much nicer and more efficient places to be treated in. But, boy, the cost of PFI (introduced by John Major, I hasten to add, but continued by the Labour government.) How quickly the construction companies and investment vehicles learned how to rip off the NHS.

[Jonnyboy]

of course I would have to retrain..but many of my skills are transferable...some of which I would never be able to talk about

Much of what I do uses many various IT systems...and have a great deal of expertise with that.

My Command and Leadership qualifications are worth £££££ on civvy street.

as well as other bits and bobs, like confined space fire fighter

Defence security officer

ships protection force team leader.

OPTAG trained

 

who paid for all this training?

[Whitey Grandad]

who paid for all this training?

The same people who paid for your schooling.

[saintfully]

As a former NHS Procurement Manager I have to disagree

 

Once the internal market was introduced a situation arose whereby hospitals competed with each other for work. An example of this would be one hospital paying to have an outreach Radiography facility at a health centre at the edge of its catchment area in order to pull in patients from that area rather than them going to another hospital.

 

Another example (and if ever there was a reason for leaving procurement with the 'experts' rather than medics this is it) was me getting a great deal for hip and knee replacements only for the lead consultant to say 'Oh I was trained to use x implants, no way am I going to use the ones you're recommending - even though his colleagues were quite happy with my deal and it would have saved the Trust £thousand

 

Another example was when in-house services such as maintenance, catering, cleaning were outsourced and (non medical) consultants were hired to replace folk in areas such as procurement, audit etc. Far more expensive and often inferior levels of service.

 

However, the biggest cost was the huge hospital building programme. It was desperately needed because of decades of low levels of investment and I think we'd all agree that hospitals are much nicer and more efficient places to be treated in. But, boy, the cost of PFI (introduced by John Major, I hasten to add, but continued by the Labour government.) How quickly the construction companies and investment vehicles learned how to rip off the NHS.

 

Hehe - I was wondering (hoping) whether you'd read that and respond, hence the question mark.

 

I guess we have, at least partly, had the same experience. For my part seeing the price of lab reagents/consumables/equipment rocket and for you the price of enacting PFI, let alone sustaining it.

 

Do you think the spiralling costs/charges could have been fought/handled better on the NHS side, or do you think that it was inevitable that private companies would put their prices up? (Especially given that many of the services/goods purchased are so specialised that they don't really exist in a proper market?).

[saintfully]

The same people who paid for your schooling.

 

That would be people like me then.

[bridge too far]

Hehe - I was wondering (hoping) whether you'd read that and respond, hence the question mark.

 

I guess we have, at least partly, had the same experience. For my part seeing the price of lab reagents/consumables/equipment rocket and for you the price of enacting PFI, let alone sustaining it.

 

Do you think the spiralling costs/charges could have been fought/handled better on the NHS side, or do you think that it was inevitable that private companies would put their prices up? (Especially given that many of the services/goods purchased are so specialised that they don't really exist in a proper market?).

 

Bloody hell! I could write a book on NHS procurement and PFI! I understand a little bit about the pharma side (my other half works in pharma research) and I recognise that the development of drugs is HUGELY expensive and not always successful and that the costs have to be recouped. But I was never involved in drug procurement.

 

As for PFI, well hospital buildings were in desparate need of updating and the governments (of whatever hue) couldn't afford a conventional funding mechanism. PFI was supposed to deliver on time and on budget and, largely, it did. The risk was supposed to revert to the 'developer' and most contracts had break clauses meaning the hospital could walk away from its buildings after 25 - 30 years without penalty. This was perceived as a good thing as changing care pathways meant fewer beds were needed as patients generally spent less time in hospital.

 

The biggest problem with PFI, in my view, is that when it was first conceived those NHS managers found it hard to work in the commercial culture. The developers recognised this and took advantage. For example, they were very good at the whole contract variation mechanism. The developers also borrowed money at a high rate and the 'rent' reflected this. However, once the buildings were up and running, the developers renegotiated their borrowing rates but didn't pass this on to the NHS.

[Lord Duckhunter]

We're on to another leftie favourite now, the NHS.

 

In a minute there will be an "envy of the world" quote.

 

If it's such a great service why aren't the French, German,Spainish, Italian people pushing for a British style NHS?

 

Bloody hell the French dont need much excuse for a protest.

[Verbal]

We're on to another leftie favourite now, the NHS.

 

In a minute there will be an "envy of the world" quote.

 

If it's such a great service why aren't the French, German,Spainish, Italian people pushing for a British style NHS?

 

Bloody hell the French dont need much excuse for a protest.

 

So now you've taken to making stuff up and then criticising that.

 

Desperate.

[Whitey Grandad]

That would be people like me then.

Yes, and me and Jimmy Carr to some extent, but not those who exist on benefits, it could be argued.

[Whitey Grandad]

We're on to another leftie favourite now, the NHS.

 

In a minute there will be an "envy of the world" quote.

 

If it's such a great service why aren't the French, German,Spainish, Italian people pushing for a British style NHS?

 

Bloody hell the French dont need much excuse for a protest.

Yes, I always look at the way that other countries do things and usually I see a better method.

[solentstars]

So now you've taken to making stuff up and then criticising that.

 

Desperate.

 

What do you expect from the nutty right the people who are usually bottom of pile supporting the mega rich ..one born every minute:)

 

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2

[Saint in Paradise]

Reduce all benefits so that OAPs can get better pensions.

[Verbal]

What do you expect from the nutty right the people who are usually bottom of pile supporting the mega rich ..one born every minute:)

 

I often wonder about that with some posters on here. They're what sociologists in the sixties used to call 'deferential working and lower-middle class Tories' - people whose class interests might be expected to make them opposed to a bunch non-tax-paying banking swindlers, outsourcing magnates, Ponzi scammers, corrupt politicians and hedge funders. but no - they love and admire them.

 

The strange thing with Ducky is that he's on-message re: the Royals and their figurative but long-delayed appointment with Mme Guillotine. So he is capable of rational thought.

 

Odd.

[pap]

I often wonder about that with some posters on here. They're what sociologists in the sixties used to call 'deferential working and lower-middle class Tories' - people whose class interests might be expected to make them opposed to a bunch non-tax-paying banking swindlers, outsourcing magnates, Ponzi scammers, corrupt politicians and hedge funders. but no - they love and admire them.

 

The strange thing with Ducky is that he's on-message re: the Royals and their figurative but long-delayed appointment with Mme Guillotine. So he is capable of rational thought.

 

Odd.

 

Turkeys voting for Christmas.

 

I'm not sure whether it's deference, mindless tribalism or a lack of political ideas of their own.

 

Maybe it's all three.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I often wonder about that with some posters on here. They're what sociologists in the sixties used to call 'deferential working and lower-middle class Tories' - people whose class interests might be expected to make them opposed to a bunch non-tax-paying banking swindlers, outsourcing magnates, Ponzi scammers, corrupt politicians and hedge funders. but no - they love and admire them.

 

The strange thing with Ducky is that he's on-message re: the Royals and their figurative but long-delayed appointment with Mme Guillotine. So he is capable of rational thought.

 

Odd.

 

What's odd is posters making things up.

 

Please point me in the direction of any post that shows my love of any of your listed bogey men.

[Verbal]

What's odd is posters making things up.

 

Please point me in the direction of any post that shows my love of any of your listed bogey men.

 

A tad touchy, Ducky? The second para was about you. The first was a general swipe at the cap-doffers on here. Were you counting yourself among them?

[doddisalegend]

I often wonder about that with some posters on here. They're what sociologists in the sixties used to call 'deferential working and lower-middle class Tories' - people whose class interests might be expected to make them opposed to a bunch non-tax-paying banking swindlers, outsourcing magnates, Ponzi scammers, corrupt politicians and hedge funders. but no - they love and admire them.

The strange thing with Ducky is that he's on-message re: the Royals and their figurative but long-delayed appointment with Mme Guillotine. So he is capable of rational thought.

 

Odd.

 

Well I'm guessing in the 60s the looked across the Iron curtain at good old socialism in action and thought err.... no thanks. They probably figured that while rich upper class twits might well swindle and rob them is was still better than suppossed "men of the people" throwing them in the gulag or having them shot...

[saint1977]

of course I would have to retrain..but many of my skills are transferable...some of which I would never be able to talk about

Much of what I do uses many various IT systems...and have a great deal of expertise with that.

My Command and Leadership qualifications are worth £££££ on civvy street.

as well as other bits and bobs, like confined space fire fighter

Defence security officer

ships protection force team leader.

OPTAG trained

 

TDD, I saw a 'Using skills from the Armed Forces' seminar in Bristol on 10 July that a private provider - Executive Solutions - were running. http://www.executive-transitions.co.uk/courses/military-trans/

 

Not relevant for me and I've never used this company so don't know if they are good/bad/etc but saw it my Linkedin alert just now and logged on here over lunch.

[alpine_saint]

How was it that half a million Polish came over here and found work, yet their are people who have been unemployed 10 years?

 

 

Nail. Head.

 

Something has to be done, and there is no easy solution. If Camoron does actually attempt to implement this, there will be pain. But he has to think of the 60m people living in the UK.

 

Hopefully people in real need will become apparent and most of the malingerers will be sussed out and will get the kick in the arse they need.

[Glasgow_Saint]

This thread has inspired my new avatar!

[alpine_saint]

The strange thing with Ducky is that he's on-message re: the Royals and their figurative but long-delayed appointment with Mme Guillotine. So he is capable of rational thought.

 

Odd.

 

What arrogant judgemental self-opinionated arsewipe you really are.

[pap]

What arrogant judgemental self-opinionated arsewipe you really are.

 

Why is that necessarily a problem?

 

You and I manage this condition pretty well

[Verbal]

Well I'm guessing in the 60s the looked across the Iron curtain at good old socialism in action and thought err.... no thanks. They probably figured that while rich upper class twits might well swindle and rob them is was still better than suppossed "men of the people" throwing them in the gulag or having them shot...

 

I don't honestly think they thought of Harold Wilson in these terms.

[Whitey Grandad]

I don't honestly think they thought of Harold Wilson in these terms.

 

Please don't sully this site with his name. All he was interested in was filling his pipe.

[Frank's cousin]

We're on to another leftie favourite now, the NHS.

 

In a minute there will be an "envy of the world" quote.

 

If it's such a great service why aren't the French, German,Spainish, Italian people pushing for a British style NHS?

 

Bloody hell the French dont need much excuse for a protest.

 

er... I'll bite

 

When we us 'lefties' talk of the NHS being a marvelous institution, we are talking about the concept of 'free at the point of care Healthcare for all' - a healthcare system fully funded by the people through taxation meaning equal quality standards applied to all. To me this is not about left or right, but the mark of a mature civilised society that it uses tax payers money to train helethcare professions who can then provide treatment to all. A brilliant, ethical, moral and humane ideology of which we ALL should be proud.

 

... but there is a problem...several problems... like many governement funded services, the investment, funding, management, infrastructure and procedures are at the mercy of political games. there has been so much money wasted just on changing the systems between successive governments...

 

Working in the healthcare industry, I have been lucky enough to look in detail at many systems around the world, and although Cost Rica has a dan good one, the best that works with a larger scale population is in Germany... but such a service costs - theye spend 3 x the amount on healthcare per head as we do, some 370bilion per annum for 85 mil people, we spend around 125bil on 65mil - they also contribute 7% of gross to their health insurance fund, with employers contributing anouther 7odd % which is how its possible. National and local taxes + some private companies pay for infrastructure (nice shiney new hospitals), your insurenace pays for treatment - its a fixed % and everyone gets teh SAME standard of care... unlike in the states where level of care/coverage is dependent on how much you pay (think Bupa

 

They are Prepared to pay this level, because they know it goes to healthcare, not part absorbed into other government spending plans, and the service is the best. Thos eunemployed or on low income, have tehir contributions paid out of any benefits tehy get, so everyone still gets the same standard - best of both worlds IMHO.

 

Sp yes NHS is great idea, now sadly underfundered and badly managed through years of change driven by political ****ing about.

[pap]

Very interesting, Frank's cousin. Odd then, that once again, we're pilfering our reform platform from the US approach.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

When we us 'lefties' talk of the NHS being a marvelous institution, we are talking about the concept of 'free at the point of care Healthcare for all' - a healthcare system fully funded by the people through taxation meaning equal quality standards applied to all. To me this is not about left or right, but the mark of a mature civilised society that it uses tax payers money to train helethcare professions who can then provide treatment to all. A brilliant, ethical, moral and humane ideology of which we ALL should be proud.

.

 

But it's not Free at the point of delivery.

 

When I get my normal bout of tonsillitis, I go to the Doctor. My visit is free, but the prescription he gives me is not. My visits to the dentist aren't free.

 

The issue I have with NHS debate is the misleading slant that is put on this, mainly by left leaning people, that it is either the wonderful "free at the point of delivery" UK version, or the American version. There are plenty of inbetweens, Germany as you have outlined, France, Spain and loads of other Countries, none of which long for the UK version.

 

The NHS maybe a grand and noble thing in principle, but in practise it wastes a huge amount of our money and delivers some treatments that the State should not be funding.

[Frank's cousin]

But it's not Free at the point of delivery.

 

When I get my normal bout of tonsillitis, I go to the Doctor. My visit is free, but the prescription he gives me is not. My visits to the dentist aren't free.

 

The issue I have with NHS debate is the misleading slant that is put on this, mainly by left leaning people, that it is either the wonderful "free at the point of delivery" UK version, or the American version. There are plenty of inbetweens, Germany as you have outlined, France, Spain and loads of other Countries, none of which long for the UK version.

 

The NHS maybe a grand and noble thing in principle, but in practise it wastes a huge amount of our money and delivers some treatments that the State should not be funding.

 

Well no prescription charges in Scotland!

 

BUt its a moot point - yes we have relatively small prescription contribution - but when my wife was diagnosed with leukaemia some 17 years go, her treatment cost around £150k - around £20k on drugs and the rest on Bone marrow transplkant and hospitals stay - long time and it was free (well niether of us had paid much tax in then as both early 20s) - unlike in the states where I might not have been able to get that treatment as my sinsureance may only have covered the drugs etc depending on how much I paid per month to the private insurance.

 

The principle of free healthcare like education is to me not a lefty policy, its one of a civilised and humane society. Like all government institutions it suffers from inefficiency and many snouts in the trough, but that is not the fault of the ideal, but one of governments using it as a political football.

 

I would love to see a German type system here, but it will never happen. Culturally we have it ingrained that tax is bad. No one likes high tax, but on the continent they are much more prepared to have higher taxes if it means high qaulity service - especially when it comes to education and health. We simply dont seem to place the same value on it. The German system is not just good because of teh way it is funded, but you cant get away from the fact that they spend nearly 3 times as much per head on it than we do. And its not just drugs (which are a bit more expensive there as they have a freer pricing policy for pharmaceuticals (although restrictions and health technology assessment was introduced last year) as rugs budgets are typically only around 10% of the total healthcare expenditure.

 

We simply dont think of health in the same way - and any party advocating greater taxation for improved healthcare would in effect be committing electorial suicide.

 

I just wish we had a more pragmatic approach and recognised that if we want 1st in class service, we need to be prepared to pay for it - the wealth of a nation should not just be measured in GDP and growth, but in quality of life for its citizens.

 

Benefits over there are also more in line with what you have paid in... been in a job for a while and made redundant, you get 80% of your last salary which then slowly reduces the longer you need to claim. It means you ahve time to find teh right job, without a major nightmarish impact on your family circumstances... its based on what you paid in, not a standrad £69 quid a week which is going to feck up your mortgage.

 

It is funny how on the one hand some say its all teh fault of the economic migrant who...er steel our jobs.... yet its also claimed that they come here for the benefits... which one is it? We do have scroungers in tehis country but teh vast majority are our own nationals, happy to live off the state - the folk that simply dont wnat to take a job and why 600k poles found work - seriously, if 600K poles can find work, why could a 1/3 of the 1.8mil unemployed (as it was back in 2006) not find jobs?

 

Like everyover tax payer, I hate teh idea of paying for scroungers, but I also feel its in part a necessary evil if the state is focussed on supporting those who are in genuine need - there will always be those that take advantage. IMHO its worth putting up with to ensure those in genuine need get what they need.

 

Making sweepng benefit cuts is not always the answer. It should be about being better at filtering out the scroungers and **** takers so the money goes to those who really deserve it....

Edited 27 June, 2012 by Frank's cousin

[buctootim]

and delivers some treatments that the State should not be funding.

 

But thats a political choice - they make the decisions, you cant blame the NHS. I agree things like IVF (if you cant afford the treatment you cant afford the baby) and frivolous cosmetic ops shouldnt be offered. We also need to be sensible about highly intensive treatments for people in their 80s and older.

[Lord Duckhunter]

But thats a political choice - they make the decisions, you cant blame the NHS. I agree things like IVF (if you cant afford the treatment you cant afford the baby) and frivolous cosmetic ops shouldnt be offered. We also need to be sensible about highly intensive treatments for people in their 80s and older.

 

A friend of mine was having problems conceiving and saw various NHS consultants. Because she was in her 30's and her partner already had children, they were way down the waiting list for NHS, so they decided to go private. They arranged it and when they had their intial consultation it was the very same consultant they had seen on the NHS. People go on about private and the privatisation of the NHS, but one of the biggest beneficiaries are the Doctors themselves.

 

Anyway to cut a long story short. They ended up with 2 healthy and happy twins. They told me that they paid for the private treatment in instalments which carried very very low interest payments. The only thing they had to fork out for which wasn't included under finaces was the drugs, which off the top of my head set them back about £700. It got me thinking that maybe a lot of boob jobs, IVF, Sex changes, cosmetic stuff could be done on the NHS, but be charged back to the recipient over a number of years, much in the way that student loans are. I must stress, this would be lifestyle surgery only.

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

Dune just for you!!!

[Whitey Grandad]

Thank you, cousin of Frank, that's a well balanced and thought-provoking point of view.

[Jonnyboy]

Meanwhile the global banking cabal has been conspiring to defraud the planet. Nice.

[Whitey Grandad]

Meanwhile the global banking cabal has been conspiring to defraud the planet. Nice.

 

You sound surprised. Everybody is ripping off the poor honest working man, I thought you knew that.

[Verbal]

You sound surprised. Everybody is ripping off the poor honest working man, I thought you knew that.

 

You KNEW this was going on? A colossal banking conspiracy to defraud and you already knew?

 

Or are you saying: sh!t happens - so what? If so, I despair of the quality of citizenship that this implies.

[pap]

From this issue of Private Eye:

 

David Cameron's call for a cut in housing benefit for the under-25s may be popular with his backbenchers, but how many of them remember the last time a Conservative government tried something similar?

 

In the late 1980s the Thatcher government introduced a range of benefit cuts for the under-25s, and withdrew income support for the under-18s, the idea being as now that they would have to move back home with their parents. However, many did not have a mum and dad, others had been forced to leave and some had left because of abuse. The result was a surge in youth homelessness.

 

So it'd seem we've had a go at it before. Last time, it was under-18s, who as a group of people, are probably more able to return home than the under-25s up for consideration today. There is less time for family circumstances to change, such as parents moving to smaller place, etc.

 

For the record, do we have anyone who supports the idea of removing Housing Benefit from the under-25s?

[saintfully]

Interesting You Gov poll data out today on the back of the Under 25's HB thing:

 

Voting intentions for 18-24 yr olds: Con - 9, Lab 71, Libs (who fu.cking cares)

 

(All ages: Con 31, Lab 45)

[pap]

Interesting You Gov poll data out today on the back of the Under 25's HB thing:

 

Voting intentions for 18-24 yr olds: Con - 9, Lab 71, Libs (who fu.cking cares)

 

(All ages: Con 31, Lab 45)

 

Doesn't appear as if the young have much love for the Conservatives. Dangerous long-term play, imo. The Tories are obviously putting all their eggs in the pensioner basket. Not even sure that'll work, to be honest. First it assumes that all pensioners are self-interested and happy with their current lot. Next, you can only play that game for so long. Pensioners eventually pop off their mortal coil, whereas the young are going to be around for another 60 years.

 

2015 may be the last election that the Conservatives have a reasonable chance of winning. A lot of their support is literally dying off, and they're sticking two fingers up to the potential replacements.

[Thedelldays]

Doesn't appear as if the young have much love for the Conservatives. Dangerous long-term play, imo. The Tories are obviously putting all their eggs in the pensioner basket. Not even sure that'll work, to be honest. First it assumes that all pensioners are self-interested and happy with their current lot. Next, you can only play that game for so long. Pensioners eventually pop off their mortal coil, whereas the young are going to be around for another 60 years.

 

2015 may be the last election that the Conservatives have a reasonable chance of winning. A lot of their support is literally dying off, and they're sticking two fingers up to the potential replacements.

you hope

[solentstars]

Interesting You Gov poll data out today on the back of the Under 25's HB thing:

 

Voting intentions for 18-24 yr olds: Con - 9, Lab 71, Libs (who fu.cking cares)

 

(All ages: Con 31, Lab 45)

 

You would have thought Cameron who spent ages trying to modernise the Tories from the nasty party failures from the 80s and widen their base in the future instead of relying on their old base of little englanders and pensioners would have more sense unless he has given up on the next election.

 

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[Thedelldays]

and what would have labour done any different to what is being done now...

 

oh that's is right, they would have done exactly the same for every 7 out of 8 quid cut

as for anything else...oh yeah, they won't tell us

[pap]

you hope

 

Hope doesn't come into it, TDD. You f**k someone about for long enough, and they'll eventually tire of it.

 

That's all that's happening here.

[pap]

You would have thought Cameron who spent ages trying to modernise the Tories from the nasty party failures from the 80s and widen their base in the future instead of relying on their old base of little englanders and pensioners would have more sense unless he has given up on the next election.

 

Ah, Cameron only cared about looking good when he was outside of power. I think he's forgotten that he needs votes to retain it.