Our Future? Stadium Expansion Proposal on Season Ticket DVD

[CityRanger]

This bit interested me in that in interview. It may have been a mistake in translation but it has interpreted as: "the club is ambitious, two billionaires are in power and want to Southampton to the top". Then the 50k capacity quote.

Have I missed something here? Do we indeed have two Billionaires who own our club?

[The Cat]

I'd hazard a guess none of the mentioned players are contracted with SFC by the time SMS has 50,000 seats and is ready for matches. The draw for all of them is first team football in the top flight, not a vision 5 or 6 years down the line. Players and managers hardly look 5 or 6 months into the future. For good reason too, wait and see how Cortese feels about Adkins at Christmas when a team with such little premiership experience is struggling.. (I hope this post comes back to bite me!!)

 

I'd like to think Adkins plans years ahead. I heard an interview with Roberto Martinez when he said the same, possibly as much as 10 years ahead.

 

The planning and future of a club is of huge importance. Built sensibly it should survive for years rather than fly high, crash and burn. So far our transfer policy seems sound as we are buying young players who can only improve and will command decent transfer fees in the future.

[Turkish]

"The stadium will be expanded to 50,000 seats" - Alexander Buttner, 18th July 2012

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vitesse.org%2Fnieuws%2Fvitesse_in_de_media%2Fuit_de_media%2F10_vragen_aan_alexander_buttner.html

 

This should be a fun debate...(remember this is likely what Cortese has told Buttner and every other signing we go after including Rodriguez, Davis and Clyne)

 

I quite agree. The question that is still unanswered is why isn't it being done now?

[The9]

Would now be a good time to point out that Arsenal are discounting their lowest category matches In 2012/13 compared to 2011/12 ? Presumably to help fill the massive stadium they have and can't sell out for smaller opponents?

 

*Retires to safe distance.

[Turkish]

Would now be a good time to point out that Arsenal are discounting their lowest category matches In 2012/13 compared to 2011/12 ? Presumably to help fill the massive stadium they have and can't sell out for smaller opponents?

 

*Retires to safe distance.

 

This is an example of flexible pricing. However in our case flexible pricing will mean pricing will go up as well as down or something...

[The9]

This is an example of flexible pricing. However in our case flexible pricing will mean pricing will go up as well as down or something...

 

Wouldn't "flexible pricing" be less about having Categories (which hasn't changed) and more about undercutting the fixed by category prices you already have?

[CB Fry]

Would now be a good time to point out that Arsenal are discounting their lowest category matches In 2012/13 compared to 2011/12 ? Presumably to help fill the massive stadium they have and can't sell out for smaller opponents?

 

*Retires to safe distance.

 

 

 

I find it highly unlikely that "slashing prices to desperately fill ground" was in the Arsenal business plan for the Emirates. And they haven't needed to up to now.

 

However, "Spend millions on seating and infrastruture with the express intention to give them away cheap as chips" is a central plank of the "intelligent posters" watertight plan for the 50,000 NewSolentSaintsCorteseDome.

[Turkish]

Wouldn't "flexible pricing" be less about having Categories (which hasn't changed) and more about undercutting the fixed by category prices you already have?

 

Not according to the intelligent posters . The intelligent posters are adamant flexible pricing means prices going up as well as down. Not forgetting our easyjet pricing model whereby £12.50 gets you access to the stadium, but if you want to see the game it's a other £30, have a p*ss will cost you £8, priority entry and exit another £6 and so on. Then we have the truely genius 'dynamic pricing' idea, whereby we start the prices low and if they sell out quickly we put the price up, or star the prices high and if it doesn't sell quickly dramatically slash them, or something. Some genus ideas being knocked about as to how we can fill our 50k seater stadium. I'm not quite sure why Arsenal aren't doing any of them instead of just cutting prices. It's odd.

[stev2001]

I find it highly unlikely that "slashing prices to desperately fill ground" was in the Arsenal business plan for the Emirates. And they haven't needed to up to now.

 

However, "Spend millions on seating and infrastruture with the express intention to give them away cheap as chips" is a central plank of the "intelligent posters" watertight plan for the 50,000 NewSolentSaintsCorteseDome.

 

I'll ask this as a question and not a statement so sensible replies please.

Do we need to sell out every match?

Last season we had the flexibility to sell far more tickets than our average for the big games bringing in very important revenue. We also had the flexibility to have a large family area etc. Is it good to have a stadium a fair percentage bigger then your average needs? If so then 32k isn't big enough if we average 30k+ next season.

Or is it better to have a stadium that we do sell out most weeks, turning fans away for the bigger matches and far less flexibility on family areas etc.

[CB Fry]

I'll ask this as a question and not a statement so sensible replies please.

Do we need to sell out every match?

Last season we had the flexibility to sell far more tickets than our average for the big games bringing in very important revenue. We also had the flexibility to have a large family area etc. Is it good to have a stadium a fair percentage bigger then your average needs? If so then 32k isn't big enough if we average 30k+ next season.

Or is it better to have a stadium that we do sell out most weeks, turning fans away for the bigger matches and far less flexibility on family areas etc.

 

 

 

We didn't make a strategic choice to have a 32k seater stadium last season.

 

And we had on many occasions seven/eight/nine thousand seats to try out flexible pricing initiatives with and we didn't. But the intelligent posters think we will start doing it if we spend millions on thousands of new seats. Go figure.

[buctootim]

the intelligent posters think we will start doing it if we spend millions on thousands of new seats. Go figure.

 

Go on then. Name one and put a link to the post up.

[CB Fry]

Go on then. Name one and put a link to the post up.

 

 

 

Frank for a start. Plenty of posts from him. Plenty of easyjet comparisons from him. Wes tender posts plenty of drivel about flexible pricing. Some plank suggested the sell tickets at price A then put them up or down on the strength of whether the game is selling well or not.

 

Nice try at being a smart cu nt but flexible pricing is a common theme on here and you know it.

[buctootim]

Nice try at being a smart cu nt but flexible pricing is a common theme on here and you know it.

 

Ive posted about how you could use dynamic pricing to fill up increased stadium capacity for which there was no current demand. I wouldnt advocate building a much bigger stadioum because the economics in the short, medium and possibly long term wouldnt add up. However if a chairman who is very ambitious and had a lot of money behind him takes the decision to build a 50,000 capacity stadium, dynamic pricing could help fill it. Lowering the average unit price increases demand. Companies do it all the time if they want to increase sales volume at the expense of margin.

 

Thats a very different proposition to saying people are clamouring for the club to build 50,000 seats.

Edited 19 July, 2012 by buctootim

[Turkish]

Ive posted about how you could use dynamic pricing to fill up increased stadium capacity for which there was no current demand. I wouldnt advocate building a much bigger stadioum because the economics in the short, medium and possibly long term wouldnt add up. However if a chairman who is very ambitious and had a lot of money behind him takes the decision to build a 50,000 capacity stadium, dynamic pricing could help fill it. Lowering the average unit price increases demand. Companies do it all the time of they want to increase sales at the expense of margin.

 

Thats a very different proposition that saying people are clamouring for the club to build 50,000 seats.

 

So there we have it, you even admit yourself that the bottom line is it comes down to lower the price. Call it what you want. Call it dynamic pricing, flexible pricing, whatever, it comes down to one thing, reduce the price. Expand it, build it, spend millions doing it and then reduce the the price to fill it. Brilliant idea.

[Thedelldays]

So there we have it, you even admit yourself that the bottom line is it comes down to lower the price. Call it what you want. Call it dynamic pricing, flexible pricing, whatever, it comes down to one thing, reduce the price. Expand it, build it, spend millions doing it and then reduce the the price to fill it. Brilliant idea.

simon jordan explained why clubs do not do this...simple really

 

lets say you pay £10 per ticket...lets say that happens a few times...fans will start to compare the price of the programme, pie, pint, car sticker to that of the ticket...his own palace fans did this so he stopped it..

 

he said fans will say that wont but he got thousands of emails complaining..so he put a stop to it

[buctootim]

So there we have it, you even admit yourself that the bottom line is it comes down to lower the price. Call it what you want. Call it dynamic pricing, flexible pricing, whatever, it comes down to one thing, reduce the price. Expand it, build it, spend millions doing it and then reduce the the price to fill it. Brilliant idea.

 

People dont buy clubs to make money though. Its a hobby, a folly, a moneypit, an ego trip - whatever. Normal investment rules dont apply. If Cortese genuinely thinks we can be CL in 10 years time he and the family might be prepared to put up the money to build the capacity and subsidise the seats with aim of eventually breaking even in 10 years time.

 

Would I do it with my money or company? no of course I wouldnt. It doesnt mean other people with different priorities aren't prepared to do it. I know through work someobody who spends £14million per year to fund his mega yacht racing hobby - for maybe 20 racing days per year. The prizes are lumps of crystal and silver cups. It doesnt make economic sense, but then it doesnt have to.

Edited 19 July, 2012 by buctootim

[Turkish]

People dont buy clubs to make money though. Its a hobby, a folly, a moneypit, an ego trip - whatever. Normal investment rules dont apply. If Cortese genuinely thinks we can be CL in 10 years time he and the family might be prepared to put up the money to build the capacity and subsidise the seats with aim of eventually breaking even in 10 years time.

 

Would I do it with my money or company? no of course I wouldnt. It doesnt mean other people with different priorities aren't prepared to do it. I know through work someobody who spends £14million per year to fund his mega yacht racing hobby - for maybe 20 racing days per year. It doesnt make economic sense, but then it doesnt have to.

 

Err, so what? You've said yourself, flexible, dynamic whatever you want to call it pricing really means cheaper pricing. This isn't what those championing the flexible pricing cause have been saying.

[Bearsy]

Ain't it sposed to get cheaper when we're struggling to sell out and more expensive for the high demand games? Weren't that matey's plan, whoever it was?

[buctootim]

Err, so what? You've said yourself, flexible, dynamic whatever you want to call it pricing really means cheaper pricing. This isn't what those championing the flexible pricing cause have been saying.

 

We've been over this before. Read the links posted or Google it if you still dont understand what dynamic pricing is.

[buctootim]

There are a few subtleties to it, but basically yes. The price fluctuates depending on how rapidly you are selling tickets and how close to the game you are.

 

 

edit this was in response to Bearsy.

[Bearsy]

Yeah ok I'm on board then. Sounds a bit like scalping. Sometimes i go to see a gig and the scalpers is wanting big £££, sometimes i rock up late for some no marks bands and the scalpers are all fighting over each over to sell me a ticket for like a fiver or whatever.

[Turkish]

We've been over this before. Read the links posted or Google it if you still dont understand what dynamic pricing is.

 

I'm fully aware what dynamic pricing is Timmy. Yet you've said yourself above "lowering the average unit price increases demand" you are admitting yourself that it will still come down to reducing the price.

[Turkish]

Ain't it sposed to get cheaper when we're struggling to sell out and more expensive for the high demand games? Weren't that matey's plan, whoever it was?

 

And Corteses, hence more expensive areas of the stadium and higher prices for the supposedly most attractive games. We are already doing "flexible pricing"

[Saint George]

The bottom line is this....Win football matches and they will come.....Win more football matches and even more will come....Win more prestigious matches and even more will come...It's really quite simple....NC clearly understands it.....

 

It seems it will take a little while for a few on here to grasp it though.....Thats if they even want to of course

[Bearsy]

And Corteses, hence more expensive areas of the stadium and higher prices for the supposedly most attractive games. We are already doing "flexible pricing"

 

Yeah that's true, I don't know what Tims is going on about now. I like it though, I think it would be exciting! Like the club would say "The tickets is £25, but they might go up, they might go down" I'd be thinking oooh shall I get one now, I don't want to get fleeced later on, but then I'd be thinking what if they come down! I don't want to get mugged off!

 

I think it's all academic tho. The ****s what sit near me probably spend more on burgers than they do on tickets anyway. Cortese could let them in for free and still be quids in.

[Turkish]

Yeah that's true, I don't know what Tims is going on about now. I like it though, I think it would be exciting! Like the club would say "The tickets is £25, but they might go up, they might go down" I'd be thinking oooh shall I get one now, I don't want to get fleeced later on, but then I'd be thinking what if they come down! I don't want to get mugged off!

 

I think it's all academic tho. The ****s what sit near me probably spend more on burgers than they do on tickets anyway. Cortese could let them in for free and still be quids in.

 

Or what about if they start at £25, there is a huge rush and they go up to £35 but then no one buys one at that price, would they then go down to £15 as sales are now slow, then there is another huge rush at this price so they put the price up to £45, again no one buys one so they sell the remain ones for £5. The ones that held on for the fiver price would be LOLing for sure.

[buctootim]

Or what about if they start at £25, there is a huge rush and they go up to £35 but then no one buys one at that price, would they then go down to £15 as sales are now slow, then there is another huge rush at this price so they put the price up to £45, again no one buys one so they sell the remain ones for £5. The ones that held on for the fiver price would be LOLing for sure.

 

You can program all kinds of rules into the computer model. The sports teams in the US use an upwards only model to avoid ****ing people off - so early bookers always get the lowest prices. The dynamic pricing kicks in by gradually ramping up the price as the numbers sold rises and you get nearer capacity. So for example a Man U ticket that could have been bought for £25 three months in advance would be £75 the day before the game if only 100 were left. A QPR ticket might still be at the orginal offer price on the day of the game if only a few were sold.

Edited 19 July, 2012 by buctootim

[buctootim]

And Corteses, hence more expensive areas of the stadium and higher prices for the supposedly most attractive games. We are already doing "flexible pricing"

 

Yes but its somebody's guess at how much you can charge for a certain game and certain area of the ground. Actual demand might be very different to what they expected. The club might make a huge new signing, or we lose six games on the trot, or the weather is great / ****e, or the game is suddenly on tv etc etc.

[CB Fry]

Go on then. Name one and put a link to the post up.

 

Buctootim.

 

Here:

 

Ive posted about how you could use dynamic pricing to fill up increased stadium capacity for which there was no current demand. I wouldnt advocate building a much bigger stadioum because the economics in the short, medium and possibly long term wouldnt add up. However if a chairman who is very ambitious and had a lot of money behind him takes the decision to build a 50,000 capacity stadium, dynamic pricing could help fill it. Lowering the average unit price increases demand. Companies do it all the time if they want to increase sales volume at the expense of margin.

 

Thats a very different proposition to saying people are clamouring for the club to build 50,000 seats.

 

 

That was way too easy. And when did I say clamouring. I was making a point about people drivelling on about flexible pricing.

 

Like, well, you.

[buctootim]

That was way too easy. And when did I say clamouring. I was making a point about people drivelling on about flexible pricing.

 

Like, well, you.

 

Odd. I hadnt posted on the issue for nearly a month until you resurrrected the issue and started conjuring your imaginary straw men again. I can see why you like them though, not too challenging or embarrassing.

Edited 19 July, 2012 by buctootim

[CB Fry]

Odd. I hadnt posted on the issue for nearly a month until you resurrrected the issue and started conjuring your imaginary straw men again. I can see why you like them though, not too challenging or embarrassing.

 

 

 

Eh? I think you had an even strawier-man on me when challenging me to go back and dig quotes up to "prove" the existence of one of the biggest themes running through this debate for months. And, as it turns out (I didn't actually remember) an idea you bang on about yourself.

 

So quite frankly what the f u ck are you talking about?

[Webby]

I've said this before, our club is undertaking some huge changes under the control of NC, and some might not like whats gonna happen (for example, if they get priced out of going, or the new kit colours). At the very beginning he stated he wanted CL football, and I don't think he's a man that fails at what he strives to do. I don't know about CL myself but the wheels are in motion; stadium expansion, increased wages, higher transfer fees, staplewood, the kit change etc etc. It's happening. I say hold on tight, it's gonna be a hell of a ride!

[Dr Who?]

The bottom line is this....Win football matches and they will come.....Win more football matches and even more will come....Win more prestigious matches and even more will come...It's really quite simple....NC clearly understands it.....

 

It seems it will take a little while for a few on here to grasp it though.....Thats if they even want to of course

 

This is what it is all about, success, build, more success build, and the masses will come. You need to get the timing right, on the pitch is where the money should be spent to get success, and then build, improve and push on

 

I really do think that we are heading into the most exciting, and successful spell of Southampton FC's existence!

[stev2001]

I am not a season ticket holder as I work a lot of Saturdays and am away lot but I do try to get down to SMS when I can. The reason I asked the question regarding whether people on here prefer a ground that is filled most weeks where a lot of fans are turned away or a ground that is over sized for their average needs is because I went to SMS far more in the last 3 seasons than I did while we were in the prem. Price of tickets was not an issue, it was just games were already sold out by the time I went to get tickets. I think it'll be a shame if I dont get to go as much this coming season. Unfortunately sometimes I haven't got the luxury of getting a general sale ticket the minute it goes on sale.

From a purely selfish reason I want a bigger stadium so I can go to more games but this does raise he question 'how many are there like me?' and 'how much money does the club lose because of this?'

[Turkish]

I am not a season ticket holder as I work a lot of Saturdays and am away lot but I do try to get down to SMS when I can. The reason I asked the question regarding whether people on here prefer a ground that is filled most weeks where a lot of fans are turned away or a ground that is over sized for their average needs is because I went to SMS far more in the last 3 seasons than I did while we were in the prem. Price of tickets was not an issue, it was just games were already sold out by the time I went to get tickets. I think it'll be a shame if I dont get to go as much this coming season. Unfortunately sometimes I haven't got the luxury of getting a general sale ticket the minute it goes on sale.

From a purely selfish reason I want a bigger stadium so I can go to more games but this does raise he question 'how many are there like me?' and 'how much money does the club lose because of this?'

 

So as someone who can only go now and again and often can't get tickets the minute they go on sale, what are your thoughts on Timmys 'dynamic pricing' idea? Whereby people who can buy Man U tickets the day they go on sale get them for £25, yet people like yourself who cant do this can end being made to pay up to 3 times more, just because their circumstances meant they couldn't buy them early.

[dune]

Is Timmy's talk of a dynamic pricing structure for SFC actually based on anything to have come out of the club? As far as I can see we've gone from having early bird season ticket renewals to just renewals, so we are in fact rowing back from pricing structures to "get em hooked early".

[Turkish]

Is Timmy's talk of a dynamic pricing structure for SFC actually based on anything to have come out of the club? As far as I can see we've gone from having early bird season ticket renewals to just renewals, so we are in fact rowing back from pricing structures to "get em hooked early".

 

No, it's come from Timmys imagination. Im sure dynamic pricing is a great way to encourage all the causal and floating fans from Gloucestershire and Warwick who just want to see premier league football that we are going to have. I mean who wouldn't want to pay 3 times more than normal fans to see a game between two clubs they don't care about.

[stev2001]

So as someone who can only go now and again and often can't get tickets the minute they go on sale, what are your thoughts on Timmys 'dynamic pricing' idea? Whereby people who can buy Man U tickets the day they go on sale get them for £25, yet people like yourself who cant do this can end being made to pay up to 3 times more, just because their circumstances meant they couldn't buy them early.

I'm fortunate that the price wouldnt stop me going so if there were tickets for £70 I'd go anyway and selfishly I'd prefer it as that price would put a lot of people off so I'd have a better chance of going.

[Turkish]

I'm fortunate that the price wouldnt stop me going so if there were tickets for £70 I'd go anyway and selfishly I'd prefer it as that price would put a lot of people off so I'd have a better chance of going.

 

So just to confirm, you'd be happy to pay £75 for a ticket the person next to you paid £25 for, simply because forwhatever reason they were able to buy them a month before you?

[Wurzel]

You can program all kinds of rules into the computer model. The sports teams in the US use an upwards only model to avoid ****ing people off - so early bookers always get the lowest prices. The dynamic pricing kicks in by gradually ramping up the price as the numbers sold rises and you get nearer capacity. So for example a Man U ticket that could have been bought for £25 three months in advance would be £75 the day before the game if only 100 were left. A QPR ticket might still be at the orginal offer price on the day of the game if only a few were sold.

 

Pretty much how market forces work for ticket touts, and that's an industry that has thrived on that model for longer than any of us care to remember. (doesn't mean I condone it but proves it DOES work)

[stev2001]

I'm more interested if there are people on here, season ticket holders especially, who would rather see the ground full most weeks even if it meant turning fans away rather than have the embarrassment of empty seats. I'm just interested that all. Like I said in L1 I could go to any match I wanted which really helpped my circumstance.

[stev2001]

So just to confirm, you'd be happy to pay £75 for a ticket the person next to you paid £25 for, simply because forwhatever reason they were able to buy them a month before you?

Of course I wouldn't but if paying £75 was the only option then I would and it might make me try harder to look at alternative ways of getting a ticket earlier thereby creating a bigger demand for tickets etc.

[Turkish]

Pretty much how market forces work for ticket touts, and that's an industry that has thrived on that model for longer than any of us care to remember. (doesn't mean I condone it but proves it DOES work)

 

So, we've been told we are going to be attracting people from all over the south, casual fans who want to see premier lewgue football. How many do you think will be willing to pay £75 to see a football match, between two teams they don't care about?

[Charlie Wayman]

 

I really do think that we are heading into the most exciting, and successful spell of Southampton FC's existence!

 

The last three years have been pretty damned good, can anything be better than that? I doubt it.

[Turkish]

Of course I wouldn't but if paying £75 was the only option then I would and it might make me try harder to look at alternative ways of getting a ticket earlier thereby creating a bigger demand for tickets etc.

 

How well do you think it would be received if SFC announced tomorrow that anyone that hasn't bought a season ticket yet has a week left to get one and by the way the price is now £1500 for a ticket which cost £575 today?

 

This is dynamic pricing, is it not?

[Turkish]

I'm more interested if there are people on here, season ticket holders especially, who would rather see the ground full most weeks even if it meant turning fans away rather than have the embarrassment of empty seats. I'm just interested that all. Like I said in L1 I could go to any match I wanted which really helpped my circumstance.

 

I can't think of many things more stupid than spending millions and millions of pounds expanding a stadium for seats that are going to remain empty or have to reduce the price to fill. If we have two seasons of 32,000 crowds whilst establishing ourselves as a premier league club then it would well be worth expaning to 40,000. If we then average around 36k whilst not having to give tickets away then I'm sure all would agree that we've done the right thing. Should we expand to 40,000 if we only average 28,000 for th next two seasons? No, it would be stupid.

[stev2001]

How well do you think it would be received if SFC announced tomorrow that anyone that hasn't bought a season ticket yet has a week left to get one and by the way the price is now £1500 for a ticket which cost £575 today?

 

This is dynamic pricing, is it not?

I'm not condoning the system just said I would pay a higher price for a ticket if that was the only way I could get one.

[stev2001]

I can't think of many things more stupid than spending millions and millions of pounds expanding a stadium for seats that are going to remain empty or have to reduce the price to fill. If we have two seasons of 32,000 crowds whilst establishing ourselves as a premier league club then it would well be worth expaning to 40,000. If we then average around 36k whilst not having to give tickets away then I'm sure all would agree that we've done the right thing. Should we expand to 40,000 if we only average 28,000 for th next two seasons? No, it would be stupid.

I can't argue with you there as I agree.

[Turkish]

I'm not condoning the system just said I would pay a higher price for a ticket if that was the only way I could get one.

 

Not everyone is as lucky as you though. I can't think of too many fans of SFC I know who would pay £75 to see a football match, let alone all these floating fans from Warwick and Cirenester we are going to be attracting.

[stev2001]

Not everyone is as lucky as you though. I can't think of too many fans of SFC I know who would pay £75 to see a football match, let alone all these floating fans from Warwick and Cirenester we are going to be attracting.

Yes but I would start to get ****ed off if I had to pay £75 for every match I went to and that would also mean the stadium was too small.